Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ben M on May 30, 2017, 09:17:36 am

Title: HM and customs
Post by: ben M on May 30, 2017, 09:17:36 am
Does any window cleaning had a check from them?
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: sunshine windows on May 30, 2017, 09:37:11 am
I've had a cheque from them
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Rob.Hall on May 30, 2017, 01:11:03 pm
A friend of mine who is also a fellow shiner got stung £40,000 by IR.
Ouch!
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: sunshine windows on May 30, 2017, 01:20:51 pm
It does happen. Keep your books in order and declare everything you should and you needn't worry though.

£40,000 wow! I wonder how much he had gotten away with previously!

Are you under investigation Ben?
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Rob.Hall on May 30, 2017, 03:04:50 pm
Bad accountant!  ???
Nearly ruined him.
Should have got his accounts signed off..

Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 30, 2017, 03:34:25 pm
Can't understand why people do use accountants it does give you some comeback and someone to fight your corner if questions arise,40k he must have been seriously taking the p£as. You have to show a living at least and these days that ain't 400-500 a week.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 30, 2017, 03:48:24 pm
If you don't have an accountant you are more likely to get checked you are in effect being left to your own devices to pay your Tax,the inland revenue also use computer programmes to show how your accounts alter from year to year month to month. They have far more weapons on there side than they ever did with technology these days,they are not daft they know on an average what you should be earning. It may be the genuine WCleaner that's people's enemy in there area if they are showing there easily doing 40-50k and you say your struggling to do 20-30 they may ask you for a chat. If your spending 60-£80 a week on fuel submitting the recipes  and put down your earning 4-£500 don't be surprised if a recycled envelope drops on the doormat lol 😂
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Shrek on May 30, 2017, 03:50:51 pm
Can't understand why people do use accountants it does give you some comeback and someone to fight your corner if questions arise,40k he must have been seriously taking the p£as. You have to show a living at least and these days that ain't 400-500 a week.

It could've been £4K per year for the last 10 years?
Also , you can easily live off 500 a week up north
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 30, 2017, 04:08:30 pm
It may well have been over 10 years but I doubt it would be,if you have a mortgage fuel van household bills etc 4-500 a week south of Watford as we've all said before is barely enough to live on. They take an average not just purely what you say you earn you will need a reason to earn a small amount and be self employed i.e. Inheritance Morgage paid off that sort of situation,you used to able to say I'm only a window cleaner I earn just above the minimum wage. More and more genuine businesses prooving that's nonsense these days
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Dry Clean on May 30, 2017, 05:01:02 pm
Can't understand why people do use accountants it does give you some comeback and someone to fight your corner if questions arise,40k he must have been seriously taking the p£as. You have to show a living at least and these days that ain't 400-500 a week.

It could've been £4K per year for the last 10 years?
Also , you can easily live off 500 a week up north

It wouldn't be as they can only back date it for 6 years.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: CF Facilities on May 30, 2017, 05:12:42 pm
I am in the fsb and it includes tax investigation assistance. I do my own books and do a self assessment. 
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Lee Pryor on May 30, 2017, 06:03:22 pm
Can't understand why people do use accountants it does give you some comeback and someone to fight your corner if questions arise,40k he must have been seriously taking the p£as. You have to show a living at least and these days that ain't 400-500 a week.

It could've been £4K per year for the last 10 years?
Also , you can easily live off 500 a week up north

It wouldn't be as they can only back date it for 6 years.

Wrong. That changed a few years ago. They can go back 20 years
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: chris turner on May 30, 2017, 06:12:28 pm
Can't understand why people do use accountants it does give you some comeback and someone to fight your corner if questions arise,40k he must have been seriously taking the p£as. You have to show a living at least and these days that ain't 400-500 a week.

It could've been £4K per year for the last 10 years?
Also , you can easily live off 500 a week up north

It wouldn't be as they can only back date it for 6 years.

Wrong. That changed a few years ago. They can go back 20 years

5 years for self employed.
https://www.gov.uk/self-employed-records/how-long-to-keep-your-records
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Lee Pryor on May 30, 2017, 06:16:35 pm
That's how long you are expected to keep records.

If you are investigated and are caught out they can go back 20 years if they see fit.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Tosh on May 30, 2017, 06:24:00 pm
How can they go back 20 years if the records have been disposed?
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: David Morris wc on May 30, 2017, 06:56:46 pm
I guess the stress of paying Tax is far out weighed by  the stress of being investigated.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 30, 2017, 08:30:41 pm
They just give you a figure they calculate you owe with underpaying for any given period,I would never not use an accountant for the sake of the money. I employ so have the accountants bill me every 3 months for employees tax and national insurance and get the usual bill twice a year also. It's far less hassle if problems arise from inland revenue I haven't got a clue how the Tax system works if you've got an accountant you can just pick the phone up and they sort it.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: nathankaye on May 30, 2017, 08:57:00 pm
Tax man just comes on here and reads all the great stories we tell of ourselves and they take it as fact  ;D
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Stoots on May 30, 2017, 09:10:25 pm
It may well have been over 10 years but I doubt it would be,if you have a mortgage fuel van household bills etc 4-500 a week south of Watford as we've all said before is barely enough to live on. They take an average not just purely what you say you earn you will need a reason to earn a small amount and be self employed i.e. Inheritance Morgage paid off that sort of situation,you used to able to say I'm only a window cleaner I earn just above the minimum wage. More and more genuine businesses prooving that's nonsense these days


400-500 is a fair old whack where im from.

Double what the average person would need to cover their bills
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: ben M on May 30, 2017, 09:55:51 pm
It does happen. Keep your books in order and declare everything you should and you needn't worry though.

£40,000 wow! I wonder how much he had gotten away with previously!

Are you under investigation Ben?
i am not yet, i am clean but my ex wife is still bitter....
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Marc Stock on May 31, 2017, 07:13:16 am
I myself have been on the wrong side of hmrc. And it did ruin me i had to declare Bankcruptcy.

HMRC are simply a machine of the bank of England to force the public to pay for things on credit loaned to the government at interest in the form of tax. They will also make up the rules that suit them if it means they can get away with it.

They are nothing more than a legalised bunch of bullies.

The 20 year rule is misleading, its actualy 40 years in cases where its worth their while. Its simply down to a case of wether its worth the time and effort.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: slap bash on May 31, 2017, 08:52:05 am
I aways leave me astounded how some take their business offshore like some in government and then pay no tax. Yet chasing the working class for peanut money.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: tlwcs on May 31, 2017, 09:13:29 am
I aways leave me astounded how some take their business offshore like some in government and then pay no tax. Yet chasing the working class for peanut money.

Yes, but it keeps us running scared
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 31, 2017, 10:49:03 am
Divorce can ring there bell when the ex starts saying to her solicitor he's earning Xnot Y he's lying that's he reason some blokes just roll over when it comes to a settlement. I've known blokes say I couldn't be bothered but what he meant was I didn't want to push it to far I didn't want looking at to much.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 01:05:18 pm
If you don't have an accountant you are more likely to get checked you are in effect being left to your own devices to pay your Tax,the inland revenue also use computer programmes to show how your accounts alter from year to year month to month. They have far more weapons on there side than they ever did with technology these days,they are not daft they know on an average what you should be earning. It may be the genuine WCleaner that's people's enemy in there area if they are showing there easily doing 40-50k and you say your struggling to do 20-30 they may ask you for a chat. If your spending 60-£80 a week on fuel submitting the recipes  and put down your earning 4-£500 don't be surprised if a recycled envelope drops on the doormat lol 😂

How would they go about doing that?
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Marc Stock on May 31, 2017, 01:58:40 pm
If you don't have an accountant you are more likely to get checked you are in effect being left to your own devices to pay your Tax,the inland revenue also use computer programmes to show how your accounts alter from year to year month to month. They have far more weapons on there side than they ever did with technology these days,they are not daft they know on an average what you should be earning. It may be the genuine WCleaner that's people's enemy in there area if they are showing there easily doing 40-50k and you say your struggling to do 20-30 they may ask you for a chat. If your spending 60-£80 a week on fuel submitting the recipes  and put down your earning 4-£500 don't be surprised if a recycled envelope drops on the doormat lol 😂

How would they go about doing that?

Trust me. They did it to me.

Now I have a accountancy firm of 50 people.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 31, 2017, 02:13:53 pm
They have computer programmes that monitor Tax returns it picks up any changes that are significant to your return,if you have certain jobs that pay you on a regular basis including domestics and they stop or get paid to someone else it picks it up. Transfers debits direct debits transfers to other accounts they are all detected through the banks and the inland revenue have access to those records,if an account you have is lost or no longer showing in your records they will know. Altherythm computer software I was told by a customer the other day it records transactions and detects and highlights changes.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Tom White on May 31, 2017, 02:32:55 pm
i am not yet, i am clean but my ex wife is still bitter....

My sister-in-law worked in a tax office in Geordieland for some years.  She tells me it was fairly common to receive phone calls from disgruntled ex-wives seeking revenge, or when child maintenance payments weren't what the ex-wife thought they should be.

One gave her the run down about her ex-husbands undeclared income from an ice-cream van.  She provided his route and timings too.

Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 03:29:00 pm
They have computer programmes that monitor Tax returns it picks up any changes that are significant to your return,if you have certain jobs that pay you on a regular basis including domestics and they stop or get paid to someone else it picks it up. Transfers debits direct debits transfers to other accounts they are all detected through the banks and the inland revenue have access to those records,if an account you have is lost or no longer showing in your records they will know. Altherythm computer software I was told by a customer the other day it records transactions and detects and highlights changes.

Last time I checked my tax returns were annual. Not sure how they would compare it from month to month, it's not something I provide them with.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 03:32:12 pm
If you don't have an accountant you are more likely to get checked you are in effect being left to your own devices to pay your Tax,the inland revenue also use computer programmes to show how your accounts alter from year to year month to month. They have far more weapons on there side than they ever did with technology these days,they are not daft they know on an average what you should be earning. It may be the genuine WCleaner that's people's enemy in there area if they are showing there easily doing 40-50k and you say your struggling to do 20-30 they may ask you for a chat. If your spending 60-£80 a week on fuel submitting the recipes  and put down your earning 4-£500 don't be surprised if a recycled envelope drops on the doormat lol 😂

How would they go about doing that?

Trust me. They did it to me.

Now I have a accountancy firm of 50 people.

They compared your month to month accounts after you were being investigated. You don't submit accounts to them on a monthly basis do you?
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 31, 2017, 04:39:35 pm
It's all done by sophisticated computer software you can be tracked just like you can in the bank if you use a current account like a business account,you'll get away with it for a while but if they decide they want to they can back date charges for using it as a business. If they suspect you or the software does you'll be tracked on every transaction you make.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 31, 2017, 04:41:43 pm
It picks up changes in your business it doesn't even need to be looked at by a human being,it alerts them to changes how do you think the revenue enforce penaltys they need proof.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 04:43:37 pm
It's all done by sophisticated computer software you can be tracked just like you can in the bank if you use a current account like a business account,you'll get away with it for a while but if they decide they want to they can back date charges for using it as a business. If they suspect you or the software does you'll be tracked on every transaction you make.

I am well aware of the new HMRC snoopers charter algorithm, I am just questioning how it would go about comparing how my accounts alter from month to month. That is not something that any algorithm can detect because I don't submit monthly accounts. It's not a requirement.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 04:46:33 pm
It picks up changes in your business it doesn't even need to be looked at by a human being,it alerts them to changes how do you think the revenue enforce penaltys they need proof.

No they don't. When dealing with HMRC the burden of proof lies with you. They say you are due £X and you can either pay it or prove otherwise.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Stoots on May 31, 2017, 04:58:37 pm
So it's guilty until proven innocent? Sounds a fair system.

Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 04:59:33 pm
So it's guilty until proven innocent? Sounds a fair system.

Sure is.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 31, 2017, 05:00:06 pm
When you get called in they will have already have you month to month info in front of em from the past how ever long they want to go back,it's a cross examination isn't it
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: NWH on May 31, 2017, 05:00:51 pm
These days they say you owe X it's up to you to prove otherwise
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Soupy on May 31, 2017, 05:03:01 pm
These days they say you owe X it's up to you to prove otherwise

Not these days, it's been that way a long time.

When you get called in they will have already have you month to month info in front of em from the past how ever long they want to go back,it's a cross examination isn't it

I still don't get the month to month thing?

You submit an annual return, if they dispute it then they dispute it and will likely look back further, I have no idea where monthly accounts would come into it.
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: ֍Winp®oClean֍ on May 31, 2017, 05:23:59 pm
Gosh there's some bollox talked on here!! You been on the weed Nige? ;D
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: chris turner on May 31, 2017, 08:50:24 pm
I think he means they will have your monthly bank account statements, which is true. We all know that if hmrc have reason to suspect you then they will access all of your financial information. They don't however monitor your bank account month to month, that is utter bollox.

When I went self employed in 2010 I had nothing. I borrowed money to start up the business and I was claiming working tax credits whilst I built. Of course I informed the tax credits office (hmrc) of the loan, which they allowed, as I only had the money in my pocket for a couple of days before it all got ploughed into the business.
A couple of months later I receive a nice letter through the door telling me I was being investigated for tax credit fraud ::)roll
I had to attend an interview under caution, where they had all my financial info from the last couple of years in front of them, with certain "suspicious" entries highlighted.
Of course little old me was completely innocent and had an explanation for everything, to which the lady eventually agreed I had done no wrong doing.
So anyway at the end of the interview the lady turned out to be lovely and we got chatting.
I asked her what caused my investigation, of course she couldn't tell me directly, but did tell me that all investigations begin with any sign of suspicious activity, including tax investigations. That can be through someone snitching on you, discrepancies in your yearly tax returns i.e Wildly fluctuating turnover, huge amounts of expense for the type of business run, even late payments can cause an investigation, amongst other things.
I also asked about how they accessed my bank account, she told me that once they begin an investigation they are allowed to access this information. I asked if they always monitor everyone's​ bank accounts, which she laughed at and said no, only once an investigation is opened can they legally access your financial information.

Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Dean Taberner on May 31, 2017, 10:52:24 pm
The taxman is the enemy,

He is no friend of mine lol
Title: Re: HM and customs
Post by: Tosh on May 31, 2017, 11:44:45 pm
i am not yet, i am clean but my ex wife is still bitter....

My sister-in-law worked in a tax office in Geordieland for some years.  She tells me it was fairly common to receive phone calls from disgruntled ex-wives seeking revenge, or when child maintenance payments weren't what the ex-wife thought they should be.

One gave her the run down about her ex-husbands undeclared income from an ice-cream van.  She provided his route and timings too.


They must be overrun by resentful half-baked exs who want to try to land the old man in it. I bet the phone never stops ringing with plenty of the accusations false. No doubt the taxman has to sort the legit cases from the false ones there too.