Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Small but perfectley formed on May 09, 2017, 04:36:05 pm
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Cleaned my own Windows several times this week look ok when cloudy but the sun has come out and is shining on to conservatory and there are lots of minute.spot s..
Hope most of the customers windows are dirty inside :o .
Not always as good the results from WFP as you would expect .
TDS of 5 ?
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TDS of 5 well there you go lol,any Windows with cheap black seals that sit on and round the window can and nearly are always a problem. Try using clean water first then see how you get on eh.
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The window where new in November 2016 no seals, can't see 5 ppm making lots spots.
Any other expert opinions ?.
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If the windows are covered in minute spots that can be rubbed off then its either the tds or your not removing all the dirt on the glass.
Did you trad the offending window to make sure they aren't ingrained hard water marks ?
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000PPM is only just clean enough for the job I wouldn't even begin to question the results unless the water was at least 000PPM. Cleaner water than 000PPM or 000PPB does make a difference,I used to think an electric hose reel was a waste of time till I bought one but I would not be without one now. If you have recessed rubber seals and the Windows are of good quality I would look more towards the technique being used to clean them.
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Fan jets can do this also this is the reason I never use them,spots galore I used to get with fan jets they put water everywhere except where you want it
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Fan jets can do this also this is the reason I never use them,spots galore I used to get with fan jets they put water everywhere except where you want it
Not if you rinse on.
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In certain light you can see what an over spray and mess fan nets make,on cloudy days you can't see the mist of water in the air. I used them to clean jobs then used pencils on the same jobs next time round,with fans I had more spots than a teenager.
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Also customers didn't like it I had a few actually say to me are you jet washing the windows nowadays,
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The other thing is that nothing looks perfect with a full sun on it. Plastered walls that look perfect can look awful when the sun's on them. Nothing stands up to full sun.
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Not technique these window have been washed 5 times this week look fine except when bright sunshine maybe some contaminant in trolley ? .
My line of thought is wfp is not has good as we think.
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8 weekly you are right ,but what would customer perception be when the windows look like this in bright sunshine.
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You are using a trolley for 1 so you are transporting water to the trolley which could get slightly contaminated,also your water is above 000 like I say I would try cleaning with clean water first 005 is not clean enough for me personally.
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Fan jets can do this also this is the reason I never use them,spots galore I used to get with fan jets they put water everywhere except where you want it
If you are getting spots using fan jets thats down to your technique , not the jets.
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5ppm will leave spots on our lounge windows which are clearly visible in the early morning sunshine.
When the water gets to 1ppm I change the resin.
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As Sean has said have you trad cleaned the window to make sure it's DEFINATELY removable by cleaning????
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We had new windows and doors fitted at the end of last year. Cost us a small fortune, and they look perfect in normal sun or cloudy days, but in low sun and first thing in a morning they look terrible......
It's all on the inside of the unit. Dust, and even the odd finger print. Windows aren't as good now as they used to be. The only good thing is that there's no visible seals on new windows which helps minimise run downs.
I'd check first that it is actually a problem with you and not just the inside of the glass.
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Fan jets can do this also this is the reason I never use them,spots galore I used to get with fan jets they put water everywhere except where you want it
Not if you rinse on full bore.
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change water in trolley, washed bay window again in sunlight much better results .
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wfp is generally crap.
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I would make sure the water is reading 000 like I said before making any judgements,windows cleaned WFP regularly will show up any imperfections in the glass because of no residue no longer on the glass. As Dave said in general they won't be perfect and there's no way your gonna knock out the amount of work most of us do and get every window perfect,I'm looking for good results in general and by using the cleanest water I'm giving myself a better chance of that. I find the easiest time of the year WFP is mid October through till end of March,short days and minimal sun is bliss for us polers.
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West facing Windows always get a little bit more of a scrub also,anproblem house maybe a lounge or kitchen that faces west in the evening when they come home from work and stare out at the garden.
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Not read through everyones post so if im repeating, i apologise.
Using 005 tds water will not be the problem at all. I like many have allowed the water to get higher and yes i clean my own windows. My wife is OCD on cleaning before anyone has a pop at working fast etc. Try eating // making a sandwich in someone's kitchen who has OCD and hou will know i wouldnt be able to get away with leaving spots!!
Anyway.......where abouts are the spots?
All over the glass? More to the edges down the window?? Bottom half of the glass or more closer to the top of the window??
Depending where you can see the spots, generally gives an indication has to what the problem may be.
Is this on all your windows or just the upstairs or just downstairs??
Side point.....why have you cleaned them five times in a week for?? To practice your technique or to check what tds you can work upto or do u just enjoy cleaning windows??
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Been there, done that. I've cleaned my windows up to five times before with the same poor results in direct sun. Customers never complain. Trick is never check them, you'll only end up bi-polar if you do.
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Could it by a case of a paranoid window cleaner?
Low level direct sunlight is a pain but probably more noticed by us. People tend to look out of their windows and focus their vision on the scenery. We tend to focus on the glass rather than the scenery maybe ?
Same when you scratch your car / van. You know it's there and focus on it too much. No one else will spot it.
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wfp is generally crap.
Dave is right...
I have been saying this for ages....
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wfp is generally crap.
Dave is right...
I have been saying this for ages....
........back to trad it is then ...... 😢
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Windows look spotty
What's your tds?
5
Duh.
Why do people use anything other than 000ppm ? Why would you spend all week cleaning windows and risk doing a bad job trying to save a few quid.
My windows spot at 3ppm
Use pure then at least you know it's not the tds and you can rule it out.
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I don't understand why people spend money on a system then use water with a + reading sort of defeats the object also the cleaning power is non existent. 0000 cleans so much better and quicker , I found I could tell very quickly when the tds was rising just by how long it took to clean a window and the finished result you could defiantly see a difference , always work with a zero reading and never get complaints and doing my own windows never get spots Evan on hot sunny days , that's not boasting it's just the way it is , most of my customers if they saw spots would be on the phone straight away complaining
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Are sure it's not just pollen settling on wet glass this time of the year. Have you got trees close to your house?
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It's the tds....why do people advertise pure water cleaning then not do it and clean at 5/10.
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Re fan jets.....
There are many different makes/types. Some, wide fan, some not so wide etc etc.
I have two types. Both on the same pump reading the one hisses out like a steam train whilst splaying wide, the other has a much narrower fan and is far more controllable.
I like fan jets. Just takes a little getting used to.
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Re fan jets.....
There are many different makes/types. Some, wide fan, some not so wide etc etc.
I have two types. Both on the same pump reading the one hisses out like a steam train whilst splaying wide, the other has a much narrower fan and is far more controllable.
I like fan jets. Just takes a little getting used to.
I don't have a problem with fan jets either, as long as they don't convert most of the water to vapour. For me, Gardiner's red ones seem to have the balance just about right as long as you have good flow. I far prefer them to pencils. But that's just my preference.
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On a perfect piece of glass and no dirt and using pure water to rinse it and leave to dry. You will only see spots etc at a tds of 050.
Obviously windows are not in this perfect test condition. But agitating and cleaning the windows properly and then a good rinse.........do you honestly think 005 tds will leave spots. I find only if the window seal leaks or is oily will it cause me a problem. But when you are aware of your customers windows you adapt how you clean them.
That was my painful new learning curve switching from trad cleaning to wfp. Its like becoming a new window cleaner again and having to relearn your customers windows. When you have done that and with good technique you eliminate spotting and errors.
Seriously people question my quality of cleaning because they think you need to flood a window with pure water to ensure quality. 😂😂 it does make me chuckle.
Then you have people convinced that vision in their water helps or you now need 000 parts per billion instead of million.
So perhaps that answers some of the above threads who ask why say using pure and allowing it to go above 000??? If using parts per billion than by that reckoning 000ppm isnt quite pure is it.
Its a little like packaging this drink has NO SUGAR but just check those ingredients and you will find sugar but its a technicality.
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I don't understand why people spend money on a system then use water with a + reading sort of defeats the object also the cleaning power is non existent. 0000 cleans so much better and quicker , I found I could tell very quickly when the tds was rising just by how long it took to clean a window and the finished result you could defiantly see a difference , always work with a zero reading and never get complaints and doing my own windows never get spots Evan on hot sunny days , that's not boasting it's just the way it is , most of my customers if they saw spots would be on the phone straight away complaining
Are you being serious ? the cleaning power of water doesn't change when filtered, its about removing anything in the water that
will be left on the glass when it dries, nothing more.
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Above post...
This also makes me chuckle, how some feel its even harder on sunny days. I personnally dont understand it as i may be thinking way too simple on it. But if tap water dries on glass the water evaporates and leaves the minerals behind on the windows. Now if our water, (in this case pure water on ppm) dries it simply evaporates and obviously leaves no minerals on the windows. So regardless of an excessively hot day or not, the windows will dry the same........just makes me laugh how people say even on a sunny day.
Sunny days being a pain in the ass, only aplies to trad working and i remember those days well. Glad there behind me ☺
I would have thought colder days are our problems. As in the water takes longer to evaporate and so more prone to the elements. Ie, windy day blowing dust around that then contaminates the pure water and making a mess of your clean window
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You will always have awkward customers complaining.
Im sure if I went back on everyjob I did today and looked I could find the odd run, bit left on a sill etc etc. Be it small it will be able to be found.
I dont worry about it, their windows are a whole lot cleaner than before you came, most have crappy insides anyway.
Direct sun will show this up and always will!
Vents dont help. They drip. Just dont wash them.simple moee trouble that its worth.
Every now and then you get the odd cutard who complaines like they always do. Re do or get rid...
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Now come on Nathan, not only do you have to have zero parts per trillion but you also know that "aggressive" pure water also rots T - shirts in a day and vans within a month.
::)roll
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Sunny days don't affect the clean it just shows up the poor power of wfp.
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Sunny days don't affect the clean it just shows up the poor power of wfp.
I doubt any professional would get an average window to look perfect in direct sun. WFP or trad.
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its easier for sure cleaning windows on warm sunny days as most windows are virtually dry by the time ive finished a property.in winter on cold damp days it can take a few hours for some windows to dry.
direct low sun will show up any marks/smears on a window.most of the time its on the inside(due to customers not having a clue how to clean a window properly)or even on the inside between the double glazing on manufacture(or seals blown).
of course occasionally i get the odd run or bit of spotting but its not often and most customers never notice or
if they do they never say anything! ;D
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0ppm or 10ppm it doesn't matter, as long as the window is cleaned and rinsed properly the results should be good.
Around 25 ppm is the point you start getting spotting, I know that as a matter of fact.
A company I worked for many moons ago used resin only to filter water with a tap TDs of 349ppm. On average they would get 3 days out of an 11 litre vessel, changing at around 25ppm. We never had any issues, apart from the odd occasion the water crept above this point to 30 odd ppm, then the complaints came.
I personally prefer to keep my water under 3 ppm for peace of mind more then anything.
If anyone gets bad results with anything under 20ppm then 90% of the time it is through poor cleaning technique, i.e,. Not scrubbing properly, not rinsing properly, poor flow, not enough care taken around vents and/or badly eroded rubber seals.
The other 10% of the time is because of environmental issues ( wind, pollen, sap, pollution, dust from nearby building work) or issues with the glass itself ( limescale, blown glass, poor quality glazing unit etc).
Pilkinton glass is the worst, it looks awful in sunlight no matter how well it is cleaned. A local glazing company has stopped selling pilkinton due to the high number of complaints from these units. In direct sunlight they look really spotty, but it is usually particles between the glazing that show up more so then any other glazing.
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Sunny days don't affect the clean it just shows up the poor power of wfp.
there you go again mr negative! ;D
if WFP was that bad we would of all been sacked by now and be signing on.
do you know just by having little faith in WFP that you can make the windows SEEM dirtier than they are? ;)
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Fan jets can do this also this is the reason I never use them,spots galore I used to get with fan jets they put water everywhere except where you want it
Not if you rinse on full bore.
Fire hose is better
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Nathan I used Vision and it does help with the cleaning of frames and windows but I won't use it anymore as it ruined 2 of my pumps,2nd 000ppb water does clean better and I couldn't give 2 hoots what any other cleaner says. If you use ppb water on glass that beads up you can see within seconds the difference it makes,you get a minimal amount of water left on the glass as soon as you lift the brush off the glass compared to using regular resin. The selling point they try to use is dirt absorbtion rate,to me this is science and many think rubbish as did I,the thing is I can tell the difference on work I do the amount of water left on the glass within a minute of cleaning it. I challenge anyone to have a go with ppb water and see for thereselves.