Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: nathankaye on February 15, 2017, 09:35:38 am
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So as some may know i recently went down road of using fish tank type heating rods in my 500l upright insulated tank.
Worked well, temps of 34 and higher sometimes. Absolutely agree with someones post on another thread, basically saying everyone whos gone hot has never regretted it.
Thats me.....ok by brush end its not hot but wamer than the cold water i used to work with. My hose nice, soft n warm. Even my poles warmed up and i did see a slight change in cleaning ability. To the point where im going down immersion heater route which i was trying to avoid, but i want hotter water.
So due to renting and not knowing about wiring in the house, i ordered a 1kw 27inch element and parts etc from heat rod. But glad i had a phone call from them apologising they had non in stock and so switched it to the 2kw 27" one instead. Its being delivered tomorrow and looking forward to installing it over wknd.
Looking forward to it indeed.
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Stop messing about and just get yourself an on demand water heater. lol
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No offence but you cant compare fish tank heaters to actual "hot" water. I very much doubt the luke warm water has made that much difference to the clean. I use a LPG heater and thats hot as its on demand, and can have it extremely hot at brush head if wanted, un touchable heat. Immersion will be better yes, although, personally I think LPG or oil heaters are much more cost effective as your only heating the water you use. Heating up a tank full of water that you may not use that day is going to be expensive to keep up daily. I only put the immersion on if I know its going to freeze as every in van stays warm that way. However I dont think an immersion is a great idea for daily use...as Smurf says...get an on demand heater ;)
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Haha, i know. Initially i didnt want to be cutting holes in my tank and several months later here i am. I dont want to be carrying gas bottles in back of the van, but lol who knows next year i might be.
As regards tank, its well insullated, the tempholds all day with only a loss of a couple of degrees. So even when i top my tank up before sticking heat rod on, its still not in low 10's for instance. So therefore i wont be required to have the heater on for as long as the initial heating one, unless i obviously really drain my tank, which is very rare.
But i wasnt comparing the fish heaters to hot water, purely saying im hooked on the experience and so want hot or hotter than 32 degrees that ive been getting rather than not. So people who go down this route of wondering about hot, not many people have regretted it. Me, i just love wasting money 😯😯
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No offence but you cant compare fish tank heaters to actual "hot" water. I very much doubt the luke warm water has made that much difference to the clean. I use a LPG heater and thats hot as its on demand, and can have it extremely hot at brush head if wanted, un touchable heat. Immersion will be better yes, although, personally I think LPG or oil heaters are much more cost effective as your only heating the water you use. Heating up a tank full of water that you may not use that day is going to be expensive to keep up daily. I only put the immersion on if I know its going to freeze as every in van stays warm that way. However I dont think an immersion is a great idea for daily use...as Smurf says...get an on demand heater ;)
Does the fact that others will disagree with your statement not tell you something ?
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I'm considering the immersion route but don't trust myself cutting holes in my tank.
Wondering if there's somewhere I can go locally that will fit it for me..
To me immersion seems the safest and easiest way of having hot water, as well as having the benefit of heating the van over winter.
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I know this has been posted somewhere before but can anyone remind me how long it will take a 2kw heater to heat 500litres to 35c +?
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I forgot the website, but if type in how long to heat watrr in google, i think its the first one on list. However i used this the other night and according to that calculation i should never have reached 34 degrees c in the time i did with the wattahe of the heater, so im not confident in its calculation as it doesnt take variables into account, ie starting temp or insulated tanks etc.
But according to what i remember,with 2kw and 500l i think it was between 6 n 8 hrs.
In other threads people have argued as to how hot it needs to be for it to make a difference, again i dont buy it. As i certainly saw a difference, not a huge jump for joy difference but enough for me to go to next stage with the immersiin to get higher temps.
For instance people are sawing burn your hand type of heat or refer to example of cleaning pots or a bath. Well im sorry i dont clean my pots with hot water that im gonna burn my hands with nor same temp as a bath. Its warm/hot that i can comfortably put my hands in, so does that mean its not got the same cleaning ability if we use that same example.
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Are you sure you've worked this out properly? 27 inches is a long one so will have to go under the baffle on a wydale tank. Have you got room to access the hole from above?
2kw won't get your tank much above 30
I've had a gas heater (still in the garage if anyone wants to collect it).
Everything about them is dodgy, gas, carbon monoxide, flames, heat. My insurance details and everyone elses I imagine has a clause for using heat (but we all ignore that bit) running a gas boiler inside a van 100 metres away out of sight on commercial property is asking for trouble in my opinion particularly sited right next to a large gas bottle and often a leisure battery to supply a spark.
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I forgot the website, but if type in how long to heat watrr in google, i think its the first one on list. However i used this the other night and according to that calculation i should never have reached 34 degrees c in the time i did with the wattahe of the heater, so im not confident in its calculation as it doesnt take variables into account, ie starting temp or insulated tanks etc.
But according to what i remember,with 2kw and 500l i think it was between 6 n 8 hrs.
In other threads people have argued as to how hot it needs to be for it to make a difference, again i dont buy it. As i certainly saw a difference, not a huge jump for joy difference but enough for me to go to next stage with the immersiin to get higher temps.
For instance people are sawing burn your hand type of heat or refer to example of cleaning pots or a bath. Well im sorry i dont clean my pots with hot water that im gonna burn my hands with nor same temp as a bath. Its warm/hot that i can comfortably put my hands in, so does that mean its not got the same cleaning ability if we use that same example.
You cant argue with physics Nathan, obviously you will need to work it out from your starting temp. measuring your tank
water temp using a tds meter wont be anywhere near accurate so best measure at the brush which is where it really matters.
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Your water will get hotter as the week goes by because after Monday you'll be returning home with some warm water left in the tank so your starting temperature will be a bit higher.
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I forgot the website, but if type in how long to heat watrr in google, i think its the first one on list. However i used this the other night and according to that calculation i should never have reached 34 degrees c in the time i did with the wattahe of the heater, so im not confident in its calculation as it doesnt take variables into account, ie starting temp or insulated tanks etc.
But according to what i remember,with 2kw and 500l i think it was between 6 n 8 hrs.
In other threads people have argued as to how hot it needs to be for it to make a difference, again i dont buy it. As i certainly saw a difference, not a huge jump for joy difference but enough for me to go to next stage with the immersiin to get higher temps.
For instance people are sawing burn your hand type of heat or refer to example of cleaning pots or a bath. Well im sorry i dont clean my pots with hot water that im gonna burn my hands with nor same temp as a bath. Its warm/hot that i can comfortably put my hands in, so does that mean its not got the same cleaning ability if we use that same example.
You cant argue with physics Nathan, obviously you will need to work it out from your starting temp. measuring your tank
water temp using a tds meter wont be anywhere near accurate so best measure at the brush which is where it really matters.
All im saying is that the pre programmed calculation did not match the results i physically had, because of such variables as stated. So the calculation does not allow for starting temp or insullation to ne taking into account. According to its calculation whichni entered my figures into, it should have taken like 24hrs to get my water to 34 degrees, which was not the case.
Yes im fitting the element underneath the baffled section so the heat would rise into the two separated compartments and it will probably be a challenge to install, but i run with the thinking, "where theres a will, theres a way" oh a bit of luck as well 😆
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I know this has been posted somewhere before but can anyone remind me how long it will take a 2kw heater to heat 500litres to 35c +?
Roughly 6 hours so around 6 degrees per hour, it may take a little longer because of heat loss and you will need to deduct your starting temp.
The biggest problem with heating stagnant tank water is you wont get a consistent temp to the brush, therefore the water
at the bottom of the tank will be a lot colder than at the top, stirring it will help but over the day the heat stored in the water will
still rise to the top, hence Nathans readings.
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It takes me 5 minutes to get my water from cold to 30 odd degrees surely it's costing quiet a bit in electricity.
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Would be interesting to find out who actually uses an emersion heater to warm up the van tank every day all year around... Anyone???
I think you might be the first Nathan if you intend to use it this way as an emersion element is mainly used as a frost protect in winter months surely?
Having the ability to be able to use an on demand water heater and have full control of the temp required depending what I'm doing is defo a no brainer for me.
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I've used mine every night since fitting.
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I've used mine every night since fitting.
When was that then Dave?
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It depends how it all goes, but certainly these winter months i will. In summer months obviously i wouldnt need it on as long as i wont be loosing heat due to the cold elements etc. But i cant see why i wouldnt.
I also fill my gardiner bk pack up on trolley and thats from a bulge pump sucking from bottom part of my tank, but its just as hot
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Hot water is not just for Christmas you know. lol
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Would be interesting to find out who actually uses an emersion heater to warm up the van tank every day all year around... Anyone???
I think you might be the first Nathan if you intend to use it this way as an emersion element is mainly used as a frost protect in winter months surely?
Having the ability to be able to use an on demand water heater and have full control of the temp required depending what I'm doing is defo a no brainer for me.
Doesn't Granville use his daily?
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I've used mine every night since fitting.
What's the costs like on daily use Dave?
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I've been using a 3Kw immersion for around 6/7 years. It's all rigged up correctly with a 16amp line on it's own breaker. I have an external 16amp socket on the wall outside where I park up so I just have to plug into that on a night. I also have this 16amp line wired via a 24hr timer so I can set an exact time for heating from indoors. Works a treat but my reason for using this is not for any additional cleaning ability but to keep my van frost free regardless of outside temp, keep my hoses nice and supple on cold days and widen the window of opportunity to clean windows in sub-zero temperatures. It's a low cost, no hassle, simple but very effective solution for cold weather working! I advise anyone going down this route to do the same as I have done above AND also fit the element via a mechanical flange.
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The only reason ive opted for the 2kw element is that im currently renting my property and so i cant go updating or changing its electrics. So im safe with the 2kw.
My tank width is 1m and the element is 27inches so plenty of space at bottom of tank under baffle (yep i kno its the structure).
I just need to take my time when fitting it has i have a tendency to rush these jobs and end up cutting the hole too big, which is the main reason i wanted to avoid this avenue. But for all the above many reasons for switching to heated water will be well worth the patience
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Would be interesting to find out who actually uses an emersion heater to warm up the van tank every day all year around... Anyone???
I think you might be the first Nathan if you intend to use it this way as an emersion element is mainly used as a frost protect in winter months surely?
Having the ability to be able to use an on demand water heater and have full control of the temp required depending what I'm doing is defo a no brainer for me.
Been using mine daily for about 18 months.
2kw immersion, on for 8 hours per night, nice warm water to the touch and steamy on the glass all day, supple hoses and less than £2.50 per night in cost which for me is cheaper than gas, plus I have no worries of burning down my van and all the insurance/risk implications that go along with it.
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I've been using a 3Kw immersion for around 6/7 years. It's all rigged up correctly with a 16amp line on it's own breaker. I have an external 16amp socket on the wall outside where I park up so I just have to plug into that on a night. I also have this 16amp line wired via a 24hr timer so I can set an exact time for heating from indoors. Works a treat but my reason for using this is not for any additional cleaning ability but to keep my van frost free regardless of outside temp, keep my hoses nice and supple on cold days and widen the window of opportunity to clean windows in sub-zero temperatures. It's a low cost, no hassle, simple but very effective solution for cold weather working! I advise anyone going down this route to do the same as I have done above AND also fit the element via a mechanical flange.
I endorse the above post having done similar since 2010 as well.
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Not done a full days work today, had to do school runs etc, so only used about 200 - 230ltrs or so of water. Begining of the day i started with a water temp of 32 in van tank. Water i transfered to backpack (which transfers from bottom) again 32.
It was close to 8pm this evening when i went to top my tank up from ibc uninsulated tank in garden. Before doing so the water in van tank read 25 and climbing slowly but i didnt wait for final figure. Topped up the 500ltr tank and after adding cold water it took it to 20 degrees.
Therefore the 2kw element will do very nicely, as my water heaters are regulated to 32/34 whereas the immersion will not be limited to that temp. So i will be having higher temps at begining of the day and evening than i currently am, hence personnaly i cant see why many are against this and knocking it based on what im experiencing.
Plus no gas to worry about in back of van when working. Use a smart box on electric and record your usage for tax purposes. I can continue to drive legally and in full confidence esp in my insurance as well, where are the negatives other than its not going to get to boiling point that people are bragging about ;D ;D (yep slight exaggeration, but does it need to burn the flesh of your hands at brush end to do the all amazing!! Lol its same people who promote Vision aint it, ;D ;D)
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I wasnt bragging...hot means hot, not luke warm :)
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Not done a full days work today, had to do school runs etc, so only used about 200 - 230ltrs or so of water. Begining of the day i started with a water temp of 32 in van tank. Water i transfered to backpack (which transfers from bottom) again 32.
It was close to 8pm this evening when i went to top my tank up from ibc uninsulated tank in garden. Before doing so the water in van tank read 25 and climbing slowly but i didnt wait for final figure. Topped up the 500ltr tank and after adding cold water it took it to 20 degrees.
Therefore the 2kw element will do very nicely, as my water heaters are regulated to 32/34 whereas the immersion will not be limited to that temp. So i will be having higher temps at begining of the day and evening than i currently am, hence personnaly i cant see why many are against this and knocking it based on what im experiencing.
Plus no gas to worry about in back of van when working. Use a smart box on electric and record your usage for tax purposes. I can continue to drive legally and in full confidence esp in my insurance as well, where are the negatives other than its not going to get to boiling point that people are bragging about ;D ;D (yep slight exaggeration, but does it need to burn the flesh of your hands at brush end to do the all amazing!! Lol its same people who promote Vision aint it, ;D ;D)
So for instance you turn up to a large job and think hmmm sod it I'm not going to waste all my warm pure water on that lot.
What would be your preferred options be when they have an outside tap you can use and you know hot cleans better than warm or cold.
A. use cold tap water.
B. use warm pure water.
C. use an endless supply of hot tap water on demand.
D. use hot pure water on demand.
I know which I would prefer to use C and then D (on any glass afterwards). But you don't have that option. lol
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If its a pita of a job, as i take it as being implied, then i go with option E.........use whichever option i have available and charge more for the job. Win win ;D ;D
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If its a pita of a job, as i take it as being implied, then i go with option E.........use whichever option i have available and charge more for the job. Win win ;D ;D
You forgot option F lol
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Not done a full days work today, had to do school runs etc, so only used about 200 - 230ltrs or so of water. Begining of the day i started with a water temp of 32 in van tank. Water i transfered to backpack (which transfers from bottom) again 32.
It was close to 8pm this evening when i went to top my tank up from ibc uninsulated tank in garden. Before doing so the water in van tank read 25 and climbing slowly but i didnt wait for final figure. Topped up the 500ltr tank and after adding cold water it took it to 20 degrees.
Therefore the 2kw element will do very nicely, as my water heaters are regulated to 32/34 whereas the immersion will not be limited to that temp. So i will be having higher temps at begining of the day and evening than i currently am, hence personnaly i cant see why many are against this and knocking it based on what im experiencing.
Plus no gas to worry about in back of van when working. Use a smart box on electric and record your usage for tax purposes. I can continue to drive legally and in full confidence esp in my insurance as well, where are the negatives other than its not going to get to boiling point that people are bragging about ;D ;D (yep slight exaggeration, but does it need to burn the flesh of your hands at brush end to do the all amazing!! Lol its same people who promote Vision aint it, ;D ;D)
So for instance you turn up to a large job and think hmmm sod it I'm not going to waste all my warm pure water on that lot.
What would be your preferred options be when they have an outside tap you can use and you know hot cleans better than warm or cold.
A. use cold tap water.
B. use warm pure water.
C. use an endless supply of hot tap water on demand.
D. use hot pure water on demand.
I know which I would prefer to use C and then D (on any glass afterwards). But you don't have that option. lol
Never had that in all my working life. Lol.
I go out with 650 litres of hot water and that does any job I come across. When it comes to
Windows warm water cleans just as good as scalding hot in my experience.
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My public liability insurance has an endorsement where they will not cover me or employees using heat such as blow lamps, torches, hot air guns etc. You can bet your life they won't cover a bodged up gas heater!
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Nathan you would have been fine with a 3kw heater re the electrics.
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Nathan you would have been fine with a 3kw heater re the electrics.
NO he wouldn't!!!!!
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Not done a full days work today, had to do school runs etc, so only used about 200 - 230ltrs or so of water. Begining of the day i started with a water temp of 32 in van tank. Water i transfered to backpack (which transfers from bottom) again 32.
It was close to 8pm this evening when i went to top my tank up from ibc uninsulated tank in garden. Before doing so the water in van tank read 25 and climbing slowly but i didnt wait for final figure. Topped up the 500ltr tank and after adding cold water it took it to 20 degrees.
Therefore the 2kw element will do very nicely, as my water heaters are regulated to 32/34 whereas the immersion will not be limited to that temp. So i will be having higher temps at begining of the day and evening than i currently am, hence personnaly i cant see why many are against this and knocking it based on what im experiencing.
Plus no gas to worry about in back of van when working. Use a smart box on electric and record your usage for tax purposes. I can continue to drive legally and in full confidence esp in my insurance as well, where are the negatives other than its not going to get to boiling point that people are bragging about ;D ;D (yep slight exaggeration, but does it need to burn the flesh of your hands at brush end to do the all amazing!! Lol its same people who promote Vision aint it, ;D ;D)
So for instance you turn up to a large job and think hmmm sod it I'm not going to waste all my warm pure water on that lot.
What would be your preferred options be when they have an outside tap you can use and you know hot cleans better than warm or cold.
A. use cold tap water.
B. use warm pure water.
C. use an endless supply of hot tap water on demand.
D. use hot pure water on demand.
I know which I would prefer to use C and then D (on any glass afterwards). But you don't have that option. lol
Never had that in all my working life. Lol.
I go out with 650 litres of hot water and that does any job I come across. When it comes to
Windows warm water cleans just as good as scalding hot in my experience.
I also can carry 650 of cold pure water which is heated on demand to whatever temp I want. Still the question begs why use pure at all when you don't need to and you have the option to use an endless supply of heated on demand tap water too. May I add at much higher flow rate than any wfp pump could provide. Not only that I like to use it for mixing soft washing chems as they work better when mixed with hot/warm tap water instead of adding cold. Then I still have the option for using hot tap water for rinsing down large surface areas like render, cladding etc. I'm not trying to say you are wrong but using an on demand hot water heater for me is defo a no brainer.
I sure then next thing you will see is on demand water heaters being fitted to van mount softwash systems after suppliers have read this post. lol
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Not done a full days work today, had to do school runs etc, so only used about 200 - 230ltrs or so of water. Begining of the day i started with a water temp of 32 in van tank. Water i transfered to backpack (which transfers from bottom) again 32.
It was close to 8pm this evening when i went to top my tank up from ibc uninsulated tank in garden. Before doing so the water in van tank read 25 and climbing slowly but i didnt wait for final figure. Topped up the 500ltr tank and after adding cold water it took it to 20 degrees.
Therefore the 2kw element will do very nicely, as my water heaters are regulated to 32/34 whereas the immersion will not be limited to that temp. So i will be having higher temps at begining of the day and evening than i currently am, hence personnaly i cant see why many are against this and knocking it based on what im experiencing.
Plus no gas to worry about in back of van when working. Use a smart box on electric and record your usage for tax purposes. I can continue to drive legally and in full confidence esp in my insurance as well, where are the negatives other than its not going to get to boiling point that people are bragging about ;D ;D (yep slight exaggeration, but does it need to burn the flesh of your hands at brush end to do the all amazing!! Lol its same people who promote Vision aint it, ;D ;D)
So for instance you turn up to a large job and think hmmm sod it I'm not going to waste all my warm pure water on that lot.
What would be your preferred options be when they have an outside tap you can use and you know hot cleans better than warm or cold.
A. use cold tap water.
B. use warm pure water.
C. use an endless supply of hot tap water on demand.
D. use hot pure water on demand.
I know which I would prefer to use C and then D (on any glass afterwards). But you don't have that option. lol
Never had that in all my working life. Lol.
I go out with 650 litres of hot water and that does any job I come across. When it comes to
Windows warm water cleans just as good as scalding hot in my experience.
I also can carry 650 of cold pure water which is heated on demand to whatever temp I want. Still the question begs why use pure at all when you don't need to and you have the option to use an endless supply of heated on demand tap water too. May I add at much higher flow rate than any wfp pump could provide. Not only that I like to use it for mixing soft washing chems as they work better when mixed with hot/warm tap water instead of adding cold. Then I still have the option for using hot tap water for rinsing down large surface areas like render, cladding etc. I'm not trying to say you are wrong but using an on demand hot water heater for me is defo a no brainer.
I sure then next thing you will see is on demand water heaters being fitted to van mount softwash systems after suppliers have read this post. lol
Different situation though mate.
Am I right in saying all your work is add on work and you don't run a window cleaning "round" as such?
If all my work was pvc cleans and soft washing etc then I'd agree with you.
For me though 95% of my day is general window cleaning on a 4 weekly cycle and an immersion is perfect.
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Nathan you would have been fine with a 3kw heater re the electrics.
NO he wouldn't!!!!!
Yes he would....I use a 3kw heater in my machine daily in domestic properties and never a problem....they would not have put in the machine if it overloads....think it draws 12amps which is fine on domestic properties.
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Nathan you would have been fine with a 3kw heater re the electrics.
NO he wouldn't!!!!!
Yes he would....I use a 3kw heater in my machine daily in domestic properties and never a problem....they would not have put in the machine if it overloads....think it draws 12amps which is fine on domestic properties.
Plug it in for 6 hours of constant full draw and see what happens. Or better still, ask a professional electrician and see what he says! ::)roll
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"Fixed appliances with a power rating over 3 kW (for example, water heaters and some electric cookers) or with a non-trivial power demand for long periods (for example, immersion heaters) are no longer recommended to be connected to a ring circuit, but instead are connected to their own dedicated circuit. There are however plenty of older installations with such loads on a ring circuit."
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Any chance of a link Nathan of the element and accessories you purchased and also do you use installation on your tank cheers
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Any chance of a link Nathan of the element and accessories you purchased and also do you use installation on your tank cheers
I used www.heatrodshop.com to buy the element. Initially a 1kw 27" in domestic section and then contacted them to swap it for a 2kw one. I also ordered the immersion element spanner from them as well. I did order the flange nut from them before i remembered everyone said its best with a mechanical flange which i ordered from toolstation.
Yes my tank is insulated with foiled bubblewrap insulation wraped around a couple of times.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1487412461_Screenshot_2017-02-18-10-07-15.png)
Just to show the space age silver lined bubblewrap on tank
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Looks good Nathan, was it easy to install your element and also where did you get the foil wrap from cheers
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Ive nit installed it as of yet. Hopefully im takling that one tomorrow, after i paid BnQ a visit today for some suitable electrical cable and plug. Non of my mates had any circular drill bits either so had to buy them, going with a 64mm bit (i think it was) for the initial hole. I think that should help give it a tight fit, but guess i'll find out.
The wrap, i was fortunate with that. My local Aldi had it in just before last winter, at a great price.
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This vid may help as if you don't want to get the size wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxrgYEurE3A
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Ive nit installed it as of yet. Hopefully im takling that one tomorrow, after i paid BnQ a visit today for some suitable electrical cable and plug. Non of my mates had any circular drill bits either so had to buy them, going with a 64mm bit (i think it was) for the initial hole. I think that should help give it a tight fit, but guess i'll find out.
The wrap, i was fortunate with that. My local Aldi had it in just before last winter, at a great price.
You have the correct hole cutter- it is 64mm for the mechanical flange. It may be a very tight fit, which to be honest, doesn't really matter when using a Proper flange as you have some tolerance. You might find that you have to sand/file the hole a little as it may be a little too tight to begin with. On the back part of the flange- the part that will be fitted inside the tank, you should see Three little raised bumps. If you file a little flat spot on the "side" of each of these bumps they will "bite" into the plastic and you'll probably find that you can fully tighten the outside nut without having to hold the inside part- just makes the job a lot easier.
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This vid may help as if you don't want to get the size wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxrgYEurE3A
Cheers Smurf, i have seen this one. Its a shame he didnt do one afterwards or one showing hime putting it together. There doesnt seem to be one on youtube for that..
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Cheers guys for all recommendations
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Just been looking at this would this work ok ? http://www.onestopbioshop.co.uk/shop/2kw-immersion-heater/
Says can plug in 13 amp plug socket . If its sound i buy it . Dont want to take anymore chances with my l5 ???
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Im fitting a 27inch 2kw. I have a normal flange and ordered a mechanical flange. Can see why people use the mechanical flange, will make it so easy to fit.
Yep, more than ok in a 13amp plug
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Thats what i thought . Just wanted the heads up . Gonna order one . And a mechanical flange .
Cheers mate
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So spent yesterday dragging tank out the van, cleaning inside of tank, drilling holes etc etc..all to install the 2kw 27 inch element at the bottom of the tank.
Put the immersion on last night and this is the results;
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1487925902_Screenshot_2017-02-24-08-42-20.png)
The element is at the bottom of the tank and goes under the baffled section. So all that hot water has worked itself to the top
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Nice one. Did you find it hard to fit?
Also don't go melting those plastic balls in the tank. lol
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Nice one. Did you find it hard to fit?
Also don't go melting those plastic balls in the tank. lol
I wondered why everyone recommends the mechanical flange, until it got delivered and i actually held it. Without using this, it would have been much harder.
But the 64mm drill bit made sure the hole was tight enough. I had to sand/file it a fraction untill i knew from the outside that the flange would fit. Then dangled it down on a wire with croc clips till i could hild it with fingers and pulled it through the hole. Tightened the nut up with some ptf tape as well and jobs a good one.
Lol the hardest part was wiring the 13amp plug, as the needed heat resist cable was very stiff to work with.
At 42 degrees, photo doesnt show the steam coming out tank. But its bath temp, very hot to put your hand in. I would definately recommend this avenue for people to try if dont want to use gas.
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Hi Nathan
What setting did u have the thermostat on? And how long did u leave it on for?
I have one and it is great.
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Hi Nathan
What setting did u have the thermostat on? And how long did u leave it on for?
I have one and it is great.
The thermostat was just rated 1 -5 and so i stuck it on 3 to see what it would be like. (No instructions on 1 being low or 1 being high,,,guessingbits low but could be wrong.)
I had it on from just gone midnight till 8 b4 work.
What setting is yours n what temp does it reach?
Mines 2kw 27" in 500l upright
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Im also sending of for one of those smart electric readers, which tell you how much electricity your appliances use so i can count the cost for tax purposes
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Hi Nathan
What setting did u have the thermostat on? And how long did u leave it on for?
I have one and it is great.
The thermostat was just rated 1 -5 and so i stuck it on 3 to see what it would be like. (No instructions on 1 being low or 1 being high,,,guessingbits low but could be wrong.)
I had it on from just gone midnight till 8 b4 work.
What setting is yours n what temp does it reach?
Mines 2kw 27" in 500l upright
Take a couple of pics pleased. I'm interested to see how low you got it
Tony
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1487956352_Screenshot_2017-02-24-17-12-11.png)
This is a shot i took when it first fitted in whilst the tank was out the van on its side. But you can see the edge of the tank, the base being the underside. But i will post another pic of it in the van soon. Cant take an inside pic as when water id drain the base is covered in my plastic balls ::)roll
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Decided to move some balls into the other side of the baffled area so people can see more cleay. Also the bottom pic showing the temp was when i knocked off at half past four. So from 8am till 4.30pm there wasnt a huge loss of temp.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1487957398_Screenshot_2017-02-24-17-27-14.png)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1487957593_Screenshot_2017-02-24-17-27-29.png)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1487957460_Screenshot_2017-02-24-17-30-38.png)
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Jesus, that's low well done. I put mine in as far down as I could reach, but I leaves a cold spot that's about a third of the tank.
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Two things that would bother me are as follows:
1. Length of the element as seems very long and looks very close to the bottom and centre baffle of the tank.
2.These things are designed for static water heating not driving about so I would keep an eye on it especially the end of it as could melt your tank. Not to mention melt yer balls too.
Going by the pic inside the tank it already looks like it's on the p. lol
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
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Two things that would bother me are as follows:
1. Length of the element as seems very long and looks very close to the bottom and centre baffle of the tank.
2.These things are designed for static water heating not driving about so I would keep an eye on it especially the end of it as could melt your tank. Not to mention melt yer balls too.
Going by the pic inside the tank it already looks like it's on the p. lol
I've had a 27" element in my tanks for 6/7 years with no issues (500 ltr Wydale currently). The mechanical flange makes a very solid fixing for the element.
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Two things that would bother me are as follows:
1. Length of the element as seems very long and looks very close to the bottom and centre baffle of the tank.
2.These things are designed for static water heating not driving about so I would keep an eye on it especially the end of it as could melt your tank. Not to mention melt yer balls too.
Going by the pic inside the tank it already looks like it's on the p. lol
Theres a good distance still from the base of the tank to the element rods and the baffle part of the tank angles up like a roof top, so there is plenty of space above the element as well. In addition to obvious surround of water. Little chance of actually melting the tank especially whilst static over night.
By time the water level drops for the balls to be close to the element, theres no heatvin element to damage my already melted balls ;D
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Jesus, that's low well done. I put mine in as far down as I could reach, but I leaves a cold spot that's about a third of the tank.
With the mechanical flange you don't need to reach inside with your arm or a tool. Just lower it on a wire and connect from the outside.
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
Depends what temp the water is when it goes in the tank. If it goes in at 12 that's only a 30 degree increase.
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
Don't forget he's reading from the top of the tank. The whole 500 might not be as warm.
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
Depends what temp the water is when it goes in the tank. If it goes in at 12 that's only a 30 degree increase.
Your right, I didn't allow for that, Doh.
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
Don't forget he's reading from the top of the tank. The whole 500 might not be as warm.
Doh, silly me! My element is virtually at the bottom of my tank. So what your saying is i cant get my head round how low the temp is at the top of my tank because its going to be even higher near my element. ::)roll ::)roll
How come theres critics on here telling me that i dont know the actual results im looking at, feeling and reading with a tds temp stick. I must be a fool. Best stick a ticking time bomb in van and use a gas heater instead
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
Don't forget he's reading from the top of the tank. The whole 500 might not be as warm.
Doh, silly me! My element is virtually at the bottom of my tank. So what your saying is i cant get my head round how low the temp is at the top of my tank because its going to be even higher near my element. ::)roll ::)roll
How come theres critics on here telling me that i dont know the actual results im looking at, feeling and reading with a tds temp stick. I must be a fool. Best stick a ticking time bomb in van and use a gas heater instead
Get a soup ladel, reach down to the bottom of your tank pull out the water and test the temp
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I know Nathan cant get his head around this but there is also something out with his heating times, for 500 litres
the minimum time needed for 42degrees would be 12.2 hours with a 2kw heater.
So either his tds meter is out or more worryingly his heater could be running higher than 2kw which may not be suitable
for his electrics.
Don't forget he's reading from the top of the tank. The whole 500 might not be as warm.
Doh, silly me! My element is virtually at the bottom of my tank. So what your saying is i cant get my head round how low the temp is at the top of my tank because its going to be even higher near my element. ::)roll ::)roll
How come theres critics on here telling me that i dont know the actual results im looking at, feeling and reading with a tds temp stick. I must be a fool. Best stick a ticking time bomb in van and use a gas heater instead
Calm down mate, heat rises including heat in water so even though your element is at the bottom of the tank the water will always be hotter at the top.
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There you go Nathan this might explain it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN7E6FCuMbY
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Can you use a plug in timer with the immersion?
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Can you use a plug in timer with the immersion?
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Yep
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Perhaps i dont waffle enough in the right direction. As in yes i know about thermal rise within water etc etc, though the video was a nice touch. However, the waffle i miss out is how i shake the water up so it can mix before i take any readings, so its an accurate reading (well as far as a china made tds stick is concerned).
Also as can see in the picture my mighty girth yellow hose on my pump that feeds my trolley. It gives the same reading.
As far as the calculations for heat transfer through liquids is concerned, i pointed out before it doesnt take into account additional variables.
the only reading ive not taken is at the brush end, but when i run it to get the hot water flowing through, you can clearly see its not cold or tepid as it was with the resstricted fish heaters. For me, this works and im hapoy with the results. Just wanted to share what works for me as someone else may find it beneficial as i have through people sharing their experiences on this forum.
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Well done Nathan. Popular topic. You have a big one ha ha
I only have a 14 inch 2kw heatrod
Setting 3 reaches about the same temp but small tank.
I put in an aquarium aerator pump, small and only cost a few quid but it does seem to move the water around.
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Can you use a plug in timer with the immersion?
Yes, I use this one (2kw) http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/d190/Plug-in+Timers/sd3182/Plug-in+Timer/p22617
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Great posts Nathan. Exactly what I did but didn't take pics ::)roll
I use mine solely to stop pipework, pumps and reels freezing in the van
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I was going to do a video, as i havent seen a "how to" video on installing one in a water fed tank. But then i thought if anything goes wrong, do i want to film it and so decided against it. ;D ;D
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Hi Nathan,
Glad you managed to fit the immersion heater.
did you use any silicone or similar to prevent leaks?
Cheers mate
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Hi Nathan,
Glad you managed to fit the immersion heater.
did you use any silicone or similar to prevent leaks?
Cheers mate
No, the hole needed filing/sanding after i cut it. It really is a tight fit and then just used ptf tape. However next day i did notice quite a bit of water in my van, but went to work as i was going away fri eve. So todays had been the first look at what went wrong. Simply a school boy error. I didnt tighten the mechanical flange tight enough. Once i retightened the flange and put the immersion in nice and tight, i dont appear to have any leaks.
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You will. Give it time, once you get in your 50’s you never pass a public toilet without popping in.
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Had a bit of spar time this morning before starting work and so did a little vid of temp coming out tank from bottom to my hose.
Tank temp is 40 degrees C And im sure if i had a third arm to hold stick in cup to read as water went in, im sure it eould read same, but......well watch vid to see temp at bottom of tank and see if after all these debates on here are right or not
https://youtu.be/OriTje5Vc2E
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Thanks for posting Nathan.
Would be also interesting to see what temp the water is after running through a 100m hose reel and out the end of a wfp to get a better Idea of the actually working temp on the glass..
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Thanks for posting Nathan.
Would be also interesting to see what temp the water is after running through a 100m hose reel and out the end of a wfp to get a better Idea of the actually working temp on the glass..b
Oki doki.
As i need to finish early as something has came up i thought i would sort that out, however it easnt easy as in a hurry. So in end i had to press hold button so hou could make temp out, but it will become evident when watching vid. Again it was still slowly creeping up but i couldnt be arsed getting soaked for that.
This was set at the speed in which i have the flow when working, so its set at 70. Dont think u can make that out on vid when i say it.
https://youtu.be/dCcHINNk0bY
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Thanks for posting Nathan.
Would be also interesting to see what temp the water is after running through a 100m hose reel and out the end of a wfp to get a better Idea of the actually working temp on the glass..b
Oki doki.
As i need to finish early as something has came up i thought i would sort that out, however it easnt easy as in a hurry. So in end i had to press hold button so hou could make temp out, but it will become evident when watching vid. Again it was still slowly creeping up but i couldnt be arsed getting soaked for that.
This was set at the speed in which i have the flow when working, so its set at 70. Dont think u can make that out on vid when i say it.
https://youtu.be/dCcHINNk0bY
Nice one. ..Nathan you must now find your job easier using that sort of temp than just using cold?
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Absolutely.....think i mentioned it on an earlier post, that ive joined the many who at first couldnt see the point, but know that i have, theres no turning back!!
My friend whos left window cleaning (was on wfp) laughed and said its warming up now so pipes wont freeze, youve wasted time.............who cares was my response. Its not just the warmth of the pole or the ease of the hoses as to why ive done this. It does make a difference in cleaning.
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Absolutely.....think i mentioned it on an earlier post, that ive joined the many who at first couldnt see the point, but know that i have, theres no turning back!!
My friend whos left window cleaning (was on wfp) laughed and said its warming up now so pipes wont freeze, youve wasted time.............who cares was my response. Its not just the warmth of the pole or the ease of the hoses as to why ive done this. It does make a difference in cleaning.
Since my fastar sprung a water leak last weak I'm now in two minds to also have a play and fit an immersion heater to an old wydale tank I've got kicking about. lol
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1488815778_20170306_155542.jpg)
It is by far the safest way of heating water.
However the reason for having to cut my day short is that i sprung a leak as well. Water pouring out where immersion was. As can see perhaps from photo, it leaked at the bottom part, so ive had to hack away at the wood to get to it. Ran some plumbers bait around it and problem solved. However for good measure ive ran alot of it around and also had some exhaust paste and put that round too. Put immersion on for half hr with what waters left in tank, in order for paste to set as not taking chances in future. No more leaks and checked temp inside of tank (about 200litres left in) and it was 50 degrees.
No more leaks and i expect to het no more. So if going down this route, use plenty of sealant
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If that is the case I will probably pay a plumber to fit one as can't be doing with all that hassle. If then starts to leak I will give him a good telling off. lol
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1488815778_20170306_155542.jpg)
It is by far the safest way of heating water.
However the reason for having to cut my day short is that i sprung a leak as well. Water pouring out where immersion was. As can see perhaps from photo, it leaked at the bottom part, so ive had to hack away at the wood to get to it. Ran some plumbers bait around it and problem solved. However for good measure ive ran alot of it around and also had some exhaust paste and put that round too. Put immersion on for half hr with what waters left in tank, in order for paste to set as not taking chances in future. No more leaks and checked temp inside of tank (about 200litres left in) and it was 50 degrees.
No more leaks and i expect to het no more. So if going down this route, use plenty of sealant
No, just do it correctly. I use no sealant at all and never had a drop leak. A sealant- particularly applied from the outside in-situ, will be prone to failure IMO.
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I don't see a mechanical flange on that picture (unless I put mine in back to front). Can't be much thread poking through the tank to screw that to?
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I don't see a mechanical flange on that picture (unless I put mine in back to front). Can't be much thread poking through the tank to screw that to?
Lol i did wonder why everyone said a mechanical flange as the thread is larger than the normal thread but not by a massive amount. Unless like you must have done, put it in back to front, which sounds like a better option.
However with the seal taken off and a tight hole, there is enough thread once fully tightened.
I didnt use any sealant on the inside tank as i was concerned with any affect on the tds of the water. I dont think i had enough ptf on thread and so sprung a leak. But i didnt want to fully drain my tank to sort the issue and so went with plumbers bait and then a sealant to harden when immersion heated up, just to be on safe side.
Checked on it this morning, water temp upto 49 degrees and the seal is holding back half a tonne of water and so problem fixed.
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Not sure you have the flange the right way Nath unless they have changed design. Mine looks like this with the big nut on the outside.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1488893670_flange 2.JPG)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1488893670_flnge 1.JPG)
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;D ;D lol look at us comparing nuts!! Hahaha
Yep its on the outside, just the angle of my rod was hiding the nut......... ;D
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Cool. 8)
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;D ;D lol look at us comparing nuts!! Hahaha
Yep its on the outside, just the angle of my rod was hiding the nut......... ;D
Yep would help if i included the picture i was intending on doing
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1488902303_Screenshot_2017-03-07-14-08-41.png)
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So is it now leak free or are you going to be talking nuts for a while. lol
I wondered why you chose to drill a 64mm hole then had make it bigger when Mark M used a 65mm cutter from the get go?
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Unfortunately...... you have the flange nut back to front. The "disc" or "flared" side should be flush to the tank wall!!!!!
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That's what I thought! ;D
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I still can't understand how you get the nut tight on the back of the flange when you can't reach it being so close to the bottom ???
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Here we go talking nuts & flanges again. lol
For god sake someone please do a vid how to fit one of these things properly as I'm getting very confused.
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Oh well, it works either way ::)roll
No more leaks and its tight together.
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Oh well, it works either way ::)roll
No more leaks and its tight together.
Until tomorrow I'm guessing. And thought I was crap a diy but it's nice to be reassured I'm not the only one. lol
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I still can't understand how you get the nut tight on the back of the flange when you can't reach it being so close to the bottom ???
The nut inside has little pimples on the surface which are enough to bite into the tank surface. Tighten the outside nut with a proper immersion spanner from Wickes and bob's yer uncle.
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I still can't understand how you get the nut tight on the back of the flange when you can't reach it being so close to the bottom ???
The nut inside has little pimples on the surface which are enough to bite into the tank surface. Tighten the outside nut with a proper immersion spanner from Wickes and bob's yer uncle.
I know, I fitted mine 2/3 of the way down my 500 upright, it was as far as I could reach.
This is fitted at the bottom of his tank, so how was the nut with the pimples located onto the flange thread? I also remember there was very little thread protruding.
We need a vid
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If the flange nut was put on the proper way round Nathan would have two surfaces flush to both sides of the tank. A smear of plumbers mate on the outside flange would suffice. As it s he's hoping the nut inside the tank stops it leaking (it probably won't).
::)roll
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If the flange nut was put on the proper way round Nathan would have two surfaces flush to both sides of the tank. A smear of plumbers mate on the outside flange would suffice. As it s he's hoping the nut inside the tank stops it leaking (it probably won't).
::)roll
I know ;D :o but how do you locate the thread for the nut
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I still can't understand how you get the nut tight on the back of the flange when you can't reach it being so close to the bottom ???
The nut inside has little pimples on the surface which are enough to bite into the tank surface. Tighten the outside nut with a proper immersion spanner from Wickes and bob's yer uncle.
I know, I fitted mine 2/3 of the way down my 500 upright, it was as far as I could reach.
This is fitted at the bottom of his tank, so how was the nut with the pimples located onto the flange thread? I also remember there was very little thread protruding.
We need a vid
Dead easy. Look at Wolfgang pic. The mechanical flange is made of two parts so it's like a hollow tube with a nut on the inside. You lower the nut on a wire inside the tank,. From outside the tank you grab the nut with a hook through the tube and draw it up against the tube. Turn the tube from outside until the threads bite the nut and away you go. Once the flange is done the element can be screwed into it.
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https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevensonplumbing.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fsource%2FPlumbing%2Fcylinders%2Fmechanical_flange_2.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevensonplumbing.co.uk%2Fimmersion-element-mechanical-flange.html&docid=hk597g-fnXhoRM&tbnid=GE8jD6JooFE4eM%3A&vet=1&w=1000&h=750&hl=en-GB&bih=909&biw=768&q=mechanical%20flange&ved=0ahUKEwjq2t-B_MTSAhWGA8AKHXZCCJoQMwhRKCwwLA&iact=mrc&uact=8
See? Two parts one inside the other
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Maybe, just maybe, I may finally understand. Thank you
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If the flange nut was put on the proper way round Nathan would have two surfaces flush to both sides of the tank. A smear of plumbers mate on the outside flange would suffice. As it s he's hoping the nut inside the tank stops it leaking (it probably won't).
::)roll
Doh! Well its a learning curve ;D when//if it leaks again, the plumbers bait stays flexible so can wioe that of. The exhaust paste i can crack off and simply ssitch it around. But for now i heated up what water remained in my tank (around 200ish litres) to 45degrees and it sprung no leak. I then topped up water with cold (about 15degrees from ibc) and no leak. Water in tank at full level was 22degrees and stuck immersion on over night for 8hrs. Tank temp was close to 50 and no leak with hot half a tonne of water and no leaks today from tank. So hoping this will last some time.
But still on slight learning curve, as all hoses become very soft and need to tighten all connections on hose etc. But thats sorted now and happy days.
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Where theres a will theres a way. Might not be the correct way, but a way all the same.
Or as some may say, im very willing.
;D
Same with getting the immersion way down at the bottom. Drop the flange down tank on a wire and poke your fingers through your cut hole and pull thread through. Ptf it or put some sealant on it and then using an immersion spanner and after your wheatabix! Tighten the life out of it.
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It's not a big job to turn it round mate. Probably take you 5-10 minutes. I would do it when you get time as it gives rigidity/stability to the element.
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It will be when your tank cools down that you may spring a leak mate.
With the warm water it will expand the plastic slightly and plug any gaps, then as it cools and shrinks then it could leak.
Like peavey says just switch it around this weekend and bobs your uncle.
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Nathan I did mention in a previous post when you first posted some pics it looked like it was fitted on the pish. If seated and fitted correctly these things should not leak. Also then when looking inside of the tank should not look out of line from the walls of the tank.
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I must just be stronger then, at tightening my nuts ::)roll as several days of water being over 50 degrees C, sloshing about in the tank. Late eveing blasting cold water into tank to fill her up and again heater goes on. Currently with no more leaks or water damage.
I know it can be nust as easy to re do, but im that busy at the moment i cant be arsed to drain my tank down and fetch it all back out the van and sort out. Im sure if it does fail me i will be cursing n sishing i did spend some spare time on it. But if its not broken, why fix it.
Lol, im so defensive