Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jo5hm4n on October 12, 2016, 06:17:59 pm

Title: Business Expenses
Post by: jo5hm4n on October 12, 2016, 06:17:59 pm
So my "friend" is thinking of buying several window cleaning rounds.  Is there a way he can claim this as a business expense which is tax deductable?  His accountant, said there isn't if it's put through as buying a window cleaning round.  Do any of you on here have any advice for what you have put window cleaning rounds through as before so that you can claim for them? :)


Thanks
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on October 12, 2016, 06:42:54 pm
I can never figure that out. Buying a round is not a legitimate business expense but I recon when you sell a round it's considered profit and you'll be taxed on it.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Stoots on October 12, 2016, 07:12:49 pm
Marketting

Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Og on October 12, 2016, 07:21:51 pm
Surely it's capital expenditure, as it's putting value on the business? I'm on the rhubarb wine mind.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: DaveG on October 12, 2016, 08:26:24 pm
Paying a canvasser is tax deductable.   ;)
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Spruce on October 12, 2016, 10:07:02 pm
I was told we can't claim the purchase of a round as a business expense as it is goodwill.

It appears that Limited companies can claim goodwill but its a complicated process - it isn't straight forward.

http://taxguide.co.uk/content/goodwill-tax-deductible

Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Ian101 on October 12, 2016, 10:51:05 pm
I can never figure that out. Buying a round is not a legitimate business expense but I recon when you sell a round it's considered profit and you'll be taxed on it.

I have a friend who just sold several very desirable rounds - he thinks it will be classed as a capital gain . I .... sorry meant he thinks your CGA tax allowance is circa £11000 as its goodwill basically

 ;)
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: jo5hm4n on October 12, 2016, 10:53:01 pm
Paying a canvasser is tax deductable.   ;)

Exactly, but how do you get around that one?  Just put the invoice down for canvassing services?  How can you properly justify that to your accountant so they put it through the books etc...
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: jo5hm4n on October 12, 2016, 10:53:47 pm
I can never figure that out. Buying a round is not a legitimate business expense but I recon when you sell a round it's considered profit and you'll be taxed on it.

I have a friend who just sold several very desirable rounds - he thinks it will be classed as a capital gain . I .... sorry meant he thinks your CGA tax allowance is circa £11000 as its goodwill basically

 ;)




;)
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Ian101 on October 12, 2016, 10:55:18 pm
Im a member on uk business forums so will ask the question in their accountancy section
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on October 12, 2016, 11:12:05 pm
It will be interesting to hear their reply.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Ian101 on October 12, 2016, 11:15:08 pm
It will be interesting to hear their reply.

will keep us all updated
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Ian101 on October 12, 2016, 11:27:41 pm
just posted this.

Hi Im asking this question on behalf of a window cleaning forum and some of its members.

 Occasionally for various reasons such as retirement, moving areas or too much work a window cleaner will sell off some rounds to another window cleaner - basically its just a list of names and addresses on a piece of paper.

 The common opinion on this is the buyer cannot claim this cost as a business expense as in the past accountants have told them its "goodwill" and not tax deductible however the person selling the round has treated it as a sale so put it into their figures for tax purposes.

 I think a seller could claim is against their CGT allowance which I think id circa £11000.

 The best thing is for us to speak to our accountants we know but we don't all have that luxury so any info would be gratefully received.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Clever Forum Name on October 13, 2016, 08:19:02 am
Buy the round with some equipment.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 13, 2016, 08:43:22 am
Buy the round with some equipment.

Wont make a difference as the equipment will have to go under a different expense which you will need a receipt for.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: robert mitchell on October 13, 2016, 09:29:13 am
Buy the round with some equipment.

As i understand it if you sell it with some equipment , for instance a van and system , it is then classed a s business being sold rather than just goodwill .
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Clever Forum Name on October 13, 2016, 07:11:18 pm
Buy the round with some equipment.

As i understand it if you sell it with some equipment , for instance a van and system , it is then classed a s business being sold rather than just goodwill .

Correct.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: duncan h on October 13, 2016, 08:17:28 pm
Its all so wrong. If it brings in a taxable income, then you should be able to claim it
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 14, 2016, 08:12:51 am
Its all so wrong. If it brings in a taxable income, then you should be able to claim it

Its a strange one, I was thinking maybe its down to the fact that the money earned is not guaranteed, but at the end of the
day you have still paid out which will mean you have less taxable income at the end of the tax year.
Maybe it falls under gambling, but then you could say the same about advertising/marketing which guarantees nothing for the
cost.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Stoots on October 14, 2016, 08:14:57 am
Buying s round or paying  canvasser isn't tax deductable.

However paying for marketting is.

Use your noggin. It all boils down to what is on your invoice/receipt.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 14, 2016, 08:18:56 am
Buy the round with some equipment.

As i understand it if you sell it with some equipment , for instance a van and system , it is then classed a s business being sold rather than just goodwill .

Correct.

Correct or not I don't know, but have a good talk with your accountant before going down this route, buying a few bits of
equipment and then declaring a round as a business on your tax returns seems a bit iffy to me.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 14, 2016, 08:26:00 am
Buying s round or paying  canvasser isn't tax deductable.

However paying for marketting is.

Use your noggin. It all boils down to what is on your invoice/receipt.

Exactly use your noggin, buy the round and stop worrying about a few hundred quid on tax savings, its certainly not worth
falsifying invoices/receipts and trying to get the guy selling the round to go along with it.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 14, 2016, 08:33:27 am
That said I would have thought canvassing was tax deductible as your employing somebody to door knock, similar to
paying a subcontract  window cleaner.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: 8weekly on October 14, 2016, 08:39:14 am
That said I would have thought canvassing was tax deductible as your employing somebody to door knock, similar to
paying a subcontract  window cleaner.
Agree. Pretty certain he's wrong. It's no different to paying a leafleter or subby.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: DaveG on October 14, 2016, 01:23:42 pm
Paying a canvasser is tax deductible, I did it when I first went out on my own.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: NWH on October 14, 2016, 02:02:32 pm
This always seems ridiculous to me when it
Comes to our business,a shop is no different with god will TBH most people locally use it out of loyalty so what's the difference. It shows on your TAX return it's a business coz its earning  you a living isn't it surely.

Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Dave Willis on October 14, 2016, 03:18:12 pm
Most of the cleaners in my town don't pay tax. Fact
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Frankybadboy on October 14, 2016, 08:24:02 pm
Most of the cleaners in my town don't pay tax. Fact
and outside  ;D
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Leeds on October 14, 2016, 08:50:46 pm
Easy -  get him to sell you the documents (that the customers are on). It's a file that he can sell you, and make a receipt out to you.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Spruce on October 15, 2016, 10:55:56 am
Easy -  get him to sell you the documents (that the customers are on). It's a file that he can sell you, and make a receipt out to you.

At the tail end of the day you can claim whatever you like on your year end returns. It's call self assessment where you are assessing your business. But there is always the chance that if you get investigated by the Receiver then they will find things legitimately claimed by you as not accepted by them. They will have the last say. Work clothing is one example.

I'm sure that the Receiver has a business model for most small trades that your business should 'fit' into. If you are starting off then costs are going to be high and returns low. But in time they will see the % of expenses against turnover, capital equipment purchases etc. Any discrepancies will bring up a read flag.

If you have a large capital equipment expense that year they can see that on your return.

.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Spruce on October 15, 2016, 11:00:35 am
Most of the cleaners in my town don't pay tax. Fact
and outside  ;D

You forgot the large corporations, Microsoft, Amazon, etc you have found all sorts of loopholes for tax avoidance. Government Ministers etc are probably the worst offenders as they should be an example to everyone of their constituents.

.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 15, 2016, 01:01:24 pm
Most of the cleaners in my town don't pay tax. Fact
and outside  ;D

You forgot the large corporations, Microsoft, Amazon, etc you have found all sorts of loopholes for tax avoidance. Government Ministers etc are probably the worst offenders as they should be an example to everyone of their constituents.

.

Can we blame them ? after all this whole thread is about looking for a legal loophole to be able to claim for something that
isn't allowed.
Just because we do it on a smaller scale doesn't make it any better.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Soupy on October 15, 2016, 02:17:14 pm
Most of the cleaners in my town don't pay tax. Fact
and outside  ;D

You forgot the large corporations, Microsoft, Amazon, etc you have found all sorts of loopholes for tax avoidance. Government Ministers etc are probably the worst offenders as they should be an example to everyone of their constituents.

.

Can we blame them ? after all this whole thread is about looking for a legal loophole to be able to claim for something that
isn't allowed.
Just because we do it on a smaller scale doesn't make it any better.

No, we can't blame them. It's the government's fault. Corporations are allowed, scratch that invited, to negotiate with HMRC how much tax they need to pay.

You try negotiating with HMRC about how much tax you'd like to pay. See how far you get.
Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: SeanK on October 16, 2016, 01:21:23 am
Most of the cleaners in my town don't pay tax. Fact
and outside  ;D

You forgot the large corporations, Microsoft, Amazon, etc you have found all sorts of loopholes for tax avoidance. Government Ministers etc are probably the worst offenders as they should be an example to everyone of their constituents.

.

Can we blame them ? after all this whole thread is about looking for a legal loophole to be able to claim for something that
isn't allowed.
Just because we do it on a smaller scale doesn't make it any better.

No, we can't blame them. It's the government's fault. Corporations are allowed, scratch that invited, to negotiate with HMRC how much tax they need to pay.

You try negotiating with HMRC about how much tax you'd like to pay. See how far you get.

What I'm saying is if we could get away without paying tax we would so where do you draw the line? example, when I was PAYE/
employed I was paying £40 a week just to drive to work, that didn't include the cars upkeep, couldn't claim a penny of this.
Should we make it that every penny earned in this country is taxable never mind the cost ?  its the only way to shut down these
loopholes.


Title: Re: Business Expenses
Post by: Soupy on October 16, 2016, 05:58:08 am
It needs to be level. The same for the big boys as it is for us muppets.