Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: slap bash on July 31, 2016, 06:16:56 pm
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I love these how to price threads : most prices are not base any sound strategy at all. I know it will get an avalanche of abuse because of my statement
The reason I can say this is due to a few facts of I have seen on here in the past.
1) A fixed fee per window EG. £ 1 per window . Which is the amount advised from day one of this forum?
My question is how big is a window. Does it have more that one or multi-paned?
Does it have many cuttings, eg. Edwardian windows.
Is it a leaded glass?
How difficult is the window to reach?
Will it cost more to clean the one pound window if it`s on the third floor?
Is a door with glass in it a window.
Is a \French door a double paned window. Also if one pound was a good price 10 years ago then what should this fee be today .
Then we come to a time quote. If you are slow do you charge more due to the time it will take you ?
Do you as a customer pay less to a window cleaner who is able to work quicker.
How much do you charge if you are on ladders or WFP.
Do you live and operate North of the proverbial money curtain or Southern were you can charge any price. And does this curtain exist or only in the minds of the none confident service providers?
Many of these things to be discussed on a forum like this.
All these factors make pricing, a very difficult subjects.
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poop slap,
you've got way too much time on your hands!!!!
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you think/overcomplicate it too much.
the truth is ........charge what YOU think is a fair price for a job.regardless of what other window cleaners charge and what part of the country you work/live in.
its your business you can do what you want.
there is definitely no standard price when you look at the prices charged for similar sized properties by different window cleaners.
some ultra run of the mill compact work i clean is cheaper than some other window cleaners in the same area.i clean 90+ houses ,they clean 2 properties.im still quids in. :)
other parts of my round and im 3 times more expensive than other guys depending on the size of property/frequency etc.
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poop slap,
you've got way too much time on your hands!!!!
Too true, don't worry what everyone else is doing, just crack on
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I love these how to price threads : most prices are not base any sound strategy at all. I know it will get an avalanche of abuse because of my statement
The reason I can say this is due to a few facts of I have seen on here in the past.
1) A fixed fee per window EG. £ 1 per window . Which is the amount advised from day one of this forum?
My question is how big is a window. Does it have more that one or multi-paned?
Does it have many cuttings, eg. Edwardian windows.
Is it a leaded glass?
How difficult is the window to reach?
Will it cost more to clean the one pound window if it`s on the third floor?
Is a door with glass in it a window.
Is a \French door a double paned window. Also if one pound was a good price 10 years ago then what should this fee be today .
Then we come to a time quote. If you are slow do you charge more due to the time it will take you ?
Do you as a customer pay less to a window cleaner who is able to work quicker.
How much do you charge if you are on ladders or WFP.
Do you live and operate North of the proverbial money curtain or Southern were you can charge any price. And does this curtain exist or only in the minds of the none confident service providers?
Many of these things to be discussed on a forum like this.
All these factors make pricing, a very difficult subjects.
I can shorten all of this for you to one sentence ;D
"As much as I can"
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Depends on what sort of car is on the driveway
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I love these how to price threads : most prices are not base any sound strategy at all. I know it will get an avalanche of abuse because of my statement
The reason I can say this is due to a few facts of I have seen on here in the past.
1) A fixed fee per window EG. £ 1 per window . Which is the amount advised from day one of this forum?
My question is how big is a window. Does it have more that one or multi-paned?
Does it have many cuttings, eg. Edwardian windows.
Is it a leaded glass?
How difficult is the window to reach?
Will it cost more to clean the one pound window if it`s on the third floor?
Is a door with glass in it a window.
Is a \French door a double paned window. Also if one pound was a good price 10 years ago then what should this fee be today .
Then we come to a time quote. If you are slow do you charge more due to the time it will take you ?
Do you as a customer pay less to a window cleaner who is able to work quicker.
How much do you charge if you are on ladders or WFP.
Do you live and operate North of the proverbial money curtain or Southern were you can charge any price. And does this curtain exist or only in the minds of the none confident service providers?
Many of these things to be discussed on a forum like this.
All these factors make pricing, a very difficult subjects.
I can shorten all of this for you to one sentence ;D
"As much as I can"
Ditto Steve ;D
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All this is based on information we give newbies on this forum. We are a very confused industry. Obviously, most will not see the importance of this.
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Regards to pricing that is a very personal choice people make as there is no right or wrong price really.
All I can say I started off what I would call cheap as most start out learning as you go.
I soon learnt to keep pushing the boundaries on pricing to try to take on only well paid work.
That is easier said than done at times as I've found still it's so easy to screw up.
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Regards to pricing that is a very personal choice people make as there is no right or wrong price really.
All I can say I started off what I would call cheap as most start out learning as you go.
I soon learnt to keep pushing the boundaries on pricing to try to take on only well paid work.
That is easier said than done at times as I've found still it's so easy to screw up.
Very good Post Smurf, as you said we all hopefully learn as we go, but we all screw up occasionally, its just
part & parcel of the job.
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Regard to the type of people we deal everyday when pricing jobs up I find very frustrating at times too.
I cottoned on very quickly you can give the same price to different people and they will either think it's too expensive, very reasonable or too cheap so you just can't bloody win.
How many times have you walked away thinking I could have got more for that job. Then end up kicking yourself for taking the job on and with this playing on your mind you end up hating doing it. I know I have quite a few times and still do now and then.
I'm not worried about the ones that say it's too expensive (I'm not paying that) as most seem to be priced conditioned by cheap prices or just living in the past anyway. The ones that say "seems very reasonable" or "I was expecting to pay more" makes me start to think am I too cheap still. ::)roll
Really pricing jobs up can be a strugle at times a no one person will think the same way.
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I think if you're gaining around 50% of the quotes you put in, you've got it about right. I'd hate to be accepted for everything, as it means you're way below the expected prices for the area. We don't even get 50% I shouldn't have thought, but still have plenty of work coming in.
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I think if you're gaining around 50% of the quotes you put in, you've got it about right. I'd hate to be accepted for everything, as it means you're way below the expected prices for the area. We don't even get 50% I shouldn't have thought, but still have plenty of work coming in.
^That.
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I'm running about 95% converstion rate so still room for improvement for me.
Mind you I like to think I'm a darn good salesman though all the same ;D
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I just cleaned a custies gutters soffits and fascias. Didn't agree a price before. Charged her 25 front and back plus her usual £15 for the windows. She seriously thought I was joking when I gave her the bill. She even asked me if I was joking. I actually thought she assumed it would be a lot more and told her I would double it if it made her feel better. She wasn't laughing.
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I just cleaned a custies gutters soffits and fascias. Didn't agree a price before.
I would have assumed you were chucking it in as a freebie ;D
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I can just hear her now “HOW MUCH!!!! You must be joking right? I'm not paying that much"
It seems she now feels that you have ripped her off so is not a happy bunny... Bless her.
Myself I would never do any jobs or extras without the customer agreeing on the price first as that's just asking for trouble if you ask me. The only time I don't agree on a price beforehand is once in a while would be a kind hearted gesture if I want to do something for free to help someone out.
The last freedbe I did was the other day which was to wash over the front apex plastics going green on a bungalow for an old boy whilst I was cleaning up splatter after cleaning his drive. Now he thinks the sunshine comes out of my arse ;D ;D
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Same as above. Never do any additional jobs asked for, without first comfirming the price.
I love the older customers who say,
"If i give you a couple of quid extra, could you just..........."
Their faces when you explain that this is a business and those extra jobs cost.........
However your own appearance and professionalism plays a huge part in pricing. If you (cant believe people employ them) as ive seen, are a window cleaner eho wear faded baggy tracky bottoms n t shirt, carry a plastic shopping bag full of scrims, no pouches n have scrims tucked in your trackies, then you cant expect to get paid a whole lot can you? (I just cant believe people employ them to look thru their property)
Com on you know the sort of shiners im refering too
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Com on you know the sort of shiners im refering too
SeanK??
Tosh?
Smurf, gotta be Smurf.
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Com on you know the sort of shiners im refering too
SeanK??
Tosh?
Smurf, gotta be Smurf.
Can't be me as I like to wear a hard hat & high viz vest or jacket .
Mind you the platic shopping baskets you can nick from aldi are no good for holding water in ;D ;D
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Back on topic so I thought I would like to mention customer expectation.
Customer expectation also has an impact on pricing too as some expect far too much for the price they want to pay.
Likewise if they are not prepared to pay a decent amount then some will do a half arse job too.
I come across this quite often when speaking to potentials when they have had guys in on the cheap in the past and then go on to say they did not do a very good job. I wonder why? ::)roll
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I think surf has it spot on. It's hard to no where you are price wise when one thinks your expensive and another cheap.
I did 2 quotes thins week. The first one 15 quid for a bungalow. Very reasonable was his reply. Quite surprised as I thought it was expensive lol
Today gets asked for a 4 bed detached. I do a few in the estate and there all 12 quid which I feel Is cheap anyway. Husband want chuffed with that price reckons it should be half. Then he got in his brand new bmw and buggered off.
???
The only customer I have where I don't agree a price is a guy who owns a million plus property he always just texts me and says next time your here can you do my gutters and just post an invoice.
I've done half a dozen jobs now for him and never had any questions asked over the price.
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Decide what you want to earn a year, divide that by 12 months, then by 4 weeks, then by how many hours a day you work. Now how much of that hour will this house take you? Great, there you have your price.
£1 a minute is working alright for now.
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Decide what you want to earn a year, divide that by 12 months, then by 4 weeks, then by how many hours a day you work. Now how much of that hour will this house take you? Great, there you have your price.
£1 a minute is working alright for now.
Great advice!
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Same as above. Never do any additional jobs asked for, without first comfirming the price.
I love the older customers who say,
"If i give you a couple of quid extra, could you just..........."
Their faces when you explain that this is a business and those extra jobs cost.........
However your own appearance and professionalism plays a huge part in pricing. If you (cant believe people employ them) as ive seen, are a window cleaner eho wear faded baggy tracky bottoms n t shirt, carry a plastic shopping bag full of scrims, no pouches n have scrims tucked in your trackies, then you cant expect to get paid a whole lot can you? (I just cant believe people employ them to look thru their property)
Com on you know the sort of shiners im refering too
;D
The moment I hear the word 'just' a big warning flashes up infront of me. It means they want something done for very little money.
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Decide what you want to earn a year, divide that by 12 months, then by 4 weeks, then by how many hours a day you work. Now how much of that hour will this house take you? Great, there you have your price.
£1 a minute is working alright for now.
Great advice!
What if yer slow like me and don't like that four letter word called "work" ? ;D
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Decide what you want to earn a year, divide that by 12 months, then by 4 weeks, then by how many hours a day you work. Now how much of that hour will this house take you? Great, there you have your price.
£1 a minute is working alright for now.
Great advice!
Not really, work out what you want to earn a year and then work out how many hours you want to work a year and go from
there.
X amount a year may look like a good wage, but if your working 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year to achieve it then it might not look so good.
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Decide what you want to earn a year, divide that by 12 months, then by 4 weeks, then by how many hours a day you work. Now how much of that hour will this house take you? Great, there you have your price.
£1 a minute is working alright for now.
Great advice!
Not really, work out what you want to earn a year and then work out how many hours you want to work a year and go from
there.
X amount a year may look like a good wage, but if your working 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year to achieve it then it might not look so good.
Even better advice, cheers Sean
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Interesting point as I think people tend to get carried away with the hourly rate malarkey and factor their prices around that instead of charging what each job is really worth.
For an example someone would be quite happy with 20 squid in their back pocket to clear out guttering. Then someone else comes along like me that would want to charge say 100 for the same job.
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I just cleaned a custies gutters soffits and fascias. Didn't agree a price before. Charged her 25 front and back plus her usual £15 for the windows. She seriously thought I was joking when I gave her the bill. She even asked me if I was joking. I actually thought she assumed it would be a lot more and told her I would double it if it made her feel better. She wasn't laughing.
cmon dave you ve been round the block a few times!why the classic newbie mistake?always agree a price first and charge a higher price than £25.no wonder you hate this job at times! ::)roll ;D
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no, I hate this job all the time!
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Interesting point as I think people tend to get carried away with the hourly rate malarkey and factor their prices around that instead of charging what each job is really worth.
For an example someone would be quite happy with 20 squid in their back pocket to clear out guttering. Then someone else comes along like me that would want to charge say 100 for the same job.
Agree...ask a roofer or plumber to do a gutter clean out and you won't get any change out of £100 even up here in Scotland, so yet again window cleaners up here under sell their services.
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Interesting point as I think people tend to get carried away with the hourly rate malarkey and factor their prices around that instead of charging what each job is really worth.
For an example someone would be quite happy with 20 squid in their back pocket to clear out guttering. Then someone else comes along like me that would want to charge say 100 for the same job.
Agree...ask a roofer or plumber to do a gutter clean out and you won't get any change out of £100 even up here in Scotland, so yet again window cleaners up here under sell their services.
Yes but a roofer or plumber doesn't rely on this work for their main earnings, similar to Thomas Sanderson they concentrate
on their main work and if an overpriced conservatory clean comes their way every so often then all the better.
My window cleaning round keeps me busy and paid so I can put a cheeky price in for add on jobs and not care if I get them or not,
if this was my main income then I would have to price with the intention of getting the job or at the least enough of them to
keep me employed.
Doesn't matter what I think a job is worth if the customers don't agree then I'm not making any money.
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Another pricing question;
You are asked to clean a small back to back 4 windows only. Its within your area but in an out of the way place and you are not cleaning any other houses nearby.
Would you;
A Take it on at the normal price in the hope you will get other houses in the location
B Take it on but increase your price. If so by how much?
C Decline it
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Another pricing question;
You are asked to clean a small back to back 4 windows only. Its within your area but in an out of the way place and you are not cleaning any other houses nearby.
Would you;
A Take it on at the normal price in the hope you will get other houses in the location
B Take it on but increase your price. If so by how much?
C Decline it
Im fortunate, that i have four rounds which have beeb established for 14/15yrs now. But to answer your question and that of the main question; even when i was traditional cleaning, each house is priced on its own merit! So i have streets of houses, where i clean virtually all houses on both sides of street. I will have a mixture of prices, old prices, new prices, price due to conservatory and prices if cant be arsed to do them when i was asked. Just because they are all close to each other or very similiar style windows n houses etc, doesnt mean you have to give same price to everyone. The sooner people wise up to pricing the better for our industry.
Its a business and should be treated as such, not a charity! Dont price according to what you would pay if you was the customer!! That is completely the wrong way. So too for wanting to earn a set hrly figure, based on what you want to earn a yr etc. How does that give you any drive??
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Interesting point as I think people tend to get carried away with the hourly rate malarkey and factor their prices around that instead of charging what each job is really worth.
For an example someone would be quite happy with 20 squid in their back pocket to clear out guttering. Then someone else comes along like me that would want to charge say 100 for the same job.
Agree...ask a roofer or plumber to do a gutter clean out and you won't get any change out of £100 even up here in Scotland, so yet again window cleaners up here under sell their services.
Agreed:
http://quotationcheck.com/average-cost-clear-roof-gutters/
Should add - Window cleaner £25.
We've recently started clearing gutters and charge £3 per metre which is still way under what a roofer would charge,
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The main issues I can see with window cleaners offering this service to regular window cleaning customers is their customers are price conditioned already with low pricing to get their windows cleaned.
Some if not most will kick off if say you charge a tenner to do there windows then want say 6 to 10 times that amount for just checking & clearing their gutters & blocked downspouts. In their minds you already have a ladder and they think it's an easy, quick job for you so why should they pay more than they want to get it done.
Unfortunatly this is how a lot of people think. That is why window cleaners tend to undercharge to keep their regular customers sweet. Then the penny drops after they have done one or two they realise and say to themselves "hang on for a lot less hassle I can make more money on glass in the same amout of time so in future I will just say " Sorry no I don't do gutters" they can find someone else.
Now that is where the likes of a true professional like me is called in and for a very odd reason all of a sudden they are willing to pay a lot more. It must be my boyish good looks, charm or something ;D ;D
p.s I use "True professional" term very loosly as I'm a cowboy at hart. Yehaa! :D
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Over the yrs, when i have lost the odd customer to someone else who has come into the area and undercut me. I used to get really cross n woe be tired if they were on street at same time as me, or strong words would get exchanged :P
But over yrs ive come to wave goodbye at such penny pinching custies and have come to pity the window cleaner working for pittance because they are too scared of rejection or whatever, to earn a descent days work.
So i pity the window cleaners who havent the motivation or guts to think outside the box and push themselves past the bare minimum of charging because of being limited by their mind set.
A bit harsh i know, but i look back over the many yrs of doing this and first couole of yrs i was in that mind set and didnt listen. I soon wised up, but wasted some yrs working more like a charity than a business man.
The amount of threads on here about pricing is unbelievable.
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Over the yrs, when i have lost the odd customer to someone else who has come into the area and undercut me. I used to get really cross n woe be tired if they were on street at same time as me, or strong words would get exchanged :P
But over yrs ive come to wave goodbye at such penny pinching custies and have come to pity the window cleaner working for pittance because they are too scared of rejection or whatever, to earn a descent days work.
So i pity the window cleaners who havent the motivation or guts to think outside the box and push themselves past the bare minimum of charging because of being limited by their mind set.
A bit harsh i know, but i look back over the many yrs of doing this and first couole of yrs i was in that mind set and didnt listen. I soon wised up, but wasted some yrs working more like a charity than a business man.
The amount of threads on here about pricing is unbelievable.
Nathan its only a few pricing threads back where some on here accused you of being a working for a pittance shiner, we could fill
a hundred pages on why some can get x and others cant and still not get to the truth, but one things for certain there's nobody
out there who sticks this game for any amount of time if working for a pittance.
I don't mind these pricing threads because even though 90% of what's posted is bull there's always some good advice
amongst it.
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Sure, shiners in different catchment areas can charge higher prices n yes some said to me the same. I take it on the chin. But if they stepped into my areas or me theres, we will see how can charge what prices. But this thread isnt about that, nor my point.
Its about prices within a catchment area, by different shiners who have a huge difference in price. Ie, some on the different threads have said that they would be embarassed to ask such high prices. The reason being is that they have mind set of the customer not a business mind set offering a great service. That is the point of what this thread is. To stop being scared of asking the higher price thinking that the customer will die of an heart attack or laugh you out the area.
But sure, there is much to learn for different ones thru this forum. Ive learnt to up the anti as well. But were all full grown fellers on here and sometimes soft soft approach doesnt help. But nothing too harsh is ever said where it cant just be taken on chin (unless your name is lee?? Sorry lee))
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I don't mind these pricing threads because even though 90% of what's posted is bull there's always some good advice
amongst it.
The trick is to decide who is full of it and who isn't.
Not as easy as you'd think, for example I'm pretty sure you think I'm a bulls hitter with some of the comments you've fired off at me. If you met me or knew anything about me you might think differently, you might not. You might be a knuckle dragging neanderthal without the first clue about how to open a door let alone price a window cleaning job, I've never met you so I've no idea really.
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Here is another way to work out your prices:
1. Decide on your salary / weekly wage (remember you will be paying tax on this). eg. £500 per week = £26,000 per year.
2. Work out your annual costs. Here are some things to include:
Domain name registration
accountant
bad debt
banking
batteries
book keeper
capex on poles and ladders and reels
Cleaner Planner
cleaning supplies - parts, tools, fluids
clothing
diesel
marketing
extra ordinary expenses
go cardless
Heater servicing
hosting and mail redirection
IT hardware
IT software
professional eg. accountant
Losses/ breakages
Misc
postage
Phone
Stationary, printin, office supplies
System servicing
Text Local
Van insurance
Van servicing
Web design
Wages
3. add 10% for contingency to your costs. eg. Salary of 26k plus costs of 9k (includes 10% contingency) = 35k per year or £673 per week.
4. divide by the number of operational days per year (allow for admin / marketing time). Subtract 15% from the number of operational days you have to allow for holidays and illness. eg. 4.5 x 52 = 234 days x .85 = 199 operational days.
5. Then divide your total costs by the number of operational days to get your daily costs. eg. 35k / 199 = £176
6. Divide this figure by the amount of productive operational hours you work per day to get your hourly costs eg. £175 / 6 hours = £29.33 per hour.
7. This will give you your costs per hour / daily break even figure.
8. Then work out what you want your profit margin to be (in percentage terms) and add it to the costs per hour.
9. So, say you want a 20% margin then multiply £29.33 by 1.2 to get your hourly target: = 35.19.
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Or a much simpler way to look at it is to try turnover as much as you can in the shortest possible time without turning into a workaholic.
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Appearance is very important as most customers respond to you knocking on the door for business. What`s that about ?
They check you out before you clean their windows. You can`t do that in any other way. No website, not leaflet, no special offers. Unless your customer is also dodgy.
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Some turn their nose up at this type of pricing thread, but I ask this question every year and find a few pearls each year.Some find it boring due to the" I`am alright Jack " Factor surfacing on the forum all the time. But remember you can learn something from a fool. It`s all here to add to the wealth of this forum and to build consensus in our ragtag industry.
Maybe we all need to look beyond ME and you will see US and what can be achieved by US the window cleaning industry in the UK. The way to the top is not standing on each other heads but working together for all of our betterment.
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WE are never too old to stop learning that's for sure. It’s the remembering bit I struggle with now ;D
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Some turn their nose up at this type of pricing thread, but I ask this question every year and find a few pearls each year.Some find it boring due to the" I`am alright Jack " Factor surfacing on the forum all the time. But remember you can learn something from a food. It`s all here to add to the wealth of this forum and to build consensus in our ragtag industry.
Maybe we all need to look beyond ME and you will see US and what can be achieved by US the window cleaning industry in the UK. The way to the top is not standing on each other heads but working together for all of our betterment.
The problem is, its all competition related isnt it! Some are happy to totally under cut you just to get a foot in. Others are happy working at a snails pace, some price a job thinking how much they would be happy to pay if they were the customer and some operate like a business mind set etc etc.
So for instance, in some areas i work, there are shiners happy to earn five pounds a house, others are charging 8-10 and i charge 15. Not sure if anyone is charging more, but if they are then i can learn from that as well. So what should be the level playing fields, if we find the average price and we all stick to it??
Sadly, whilst we have ones willing to run all the prices down hill and not improve it for themselves, your fighting a battle which your not going to win. Tho on the other hand, would you want people to up their game, which may make it harder for us good ones to stand out.
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Some don't need to charge much to make what is to them a decent living, Others have to earn a big wage to pay for their lifestyle or mega van because someone told them they must buy a new shiny van on the never never to be professional.
How professional you think you look doesn't matter once you have a full round it only matters to those who don't have enough work. Would my customers leave me if I took my signwriting off, stopped using Cleaner Planner or my van was ten years old? Doubt it. I don't wear a uniform and never will. I'm flooded with work, probably too cheap but I'm happy with my income.
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I can also be said the ones that don't charge much in general are the ones that need to work a lot harder for the same reward.
You don't need shinny new vans etc to figure that one out.
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Maybe, but unless you splash your earnings all over the internet like some love to do then you'll never know.
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Very true ;D