Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul Moss on May 24, 2016, 07:43:57 pm
-
I'm voting out
-
Out for me.
Its a bit like do you want to be self employed and have a control over your future, or do you want to be employed and how ever hard you work you get the same as everyone who does half the work
David
-
In or Out of EU?
Really?
Well...
It's another divide and conquer tactic that we fall for time and time again.
It's one big joke that's on us.
Sure, many of us are a bit safer in work though changes in H&S laws but at the same time many of us are now working long hours on zero hour contracts in unstable jobs to make ends meet.
The nationalists are having a field day and bearing their teeth after the likes of Griffin and Farange have pushed their agendas into public consciousness but we surely can't equate a leave vote with being an immigrant hating nazi.
When I was a kid the Tories took the UK into the common market and the left led by the trade unions stood against it. Now the Tories are split down the middle and most of the unions are saying stay.
Corbyn was once an advocate of leaving, now he's saying stay.
No ones got a clue.
Why don't they just ask the more truthful question..
"Which bureaucratic fascist entity would you prefer to fatten up while they rob you of your jobs, your healthcare, your pensions and your children's future in the most undemocratic, threatening and coercive manner possible for the foreseeable future whilst they continue to give all your money to their masters, let people beg for food handouts, shut down all your local services, turn your environment to dust and kill thousands of innocent people in far away lands?"
It's hard to choose ain't it?
-
With all due respect, Judging by your post, you misunderstand the term 'fascism' ;)
-
Im in.
Travel & holiday reasons
-
Lets face FACTS. If we vote to come out of Europe house prices will tumble, rents will skyrocket, we will be plunged into recession, the national health service will crumble , America will turn its back on us , we will be invaded by Russia and world war 3 will break out. I know these facts to be true........David Cameron told me so!
-
I wondered if I bend my knees and stretch my arms out it would help me make my decision?
-
I think you are being unkind, I want to stay in because I go on holiday to Spain once a year, not sure why this should matter but some do so ,so do I.......oh and Tony Blair said yesterday that we should and I trust his judgement.
-
Did you know that the The European Commission is the executive of the European Union and is not elected. its like the house of lords telling parliament what to do. our lords are there to add and balance any laws out. This is like USA where they pick judges. the law should be apart from politics.
more than economics its our freedom thats important. The European court of justice is a joke.
Just like USA capitalism is different to Europe so The UK is from Europe.
WE went in for good reason a "Common Market" not what we are heading for
The movement of people in one thing but what the unions in the UK fear is when they are employed in a European county and paid a wage from that country but work in UK. its already happened at a oil refinery in UK. its not the workers thats the issue its the company that use the laws to their advantage just like they do with tax .
-
I am out mainly because the EU is anti democratic. But looking at who's backing the stay campaign, big business and merchant banks like J P Morgan makes me think I'm making the right choice.
-
The whole stuff about 'control of our future' strikes me as nuts.
First off, if we wanted to 'control our future', we could anyway. You seen the huge numbers of tramps suddenly appearing in our cities the last 5 years? We could stop that tomorrow if we wanted to. We've got the fattest kids in Europe, and we could stop that. But so much for our 'control'. We should have implemented 'count them in, count them out' passport checks 15 years ago (perfectly legal under EU law) but we've never bothered. We don't even enforce the immigration rules we already have. The idea that stropping off from the EU is going to change that seems naive. The idea that we don't control the important things is wrong - we do, we just choose to do f**k all about them.
And what about that control? If you wanna do free trade with Europe, you gotta accept free movement - just like Norway, just like Switzerland. No choice. But Norway and Switzerland don't get a say in running the rules they have to live by. That's LESS control, not more. And if we pull out of the European arrest warrant (which we will), all the paedos, terrorists and fraudsters will be laughing - as they used to - on the Costas. So... not so much control, really. How are we going to force the mobile phone giants to keep roaming charges low with the new control from OUTside the EU? How we going to keep the hundreds of thousands of pensioners living in the EU free healthcare from OUTside the EU? Leaving gives us LESS control.
And what's the point of all this fantasy 'control our future' if it runs the economy down? The Institute for Fiscal Studies (the most respected experts on the economy in the country) tells us it will make us poorer than ALL the money we give to the EU, and the Brexiteers say they're part of a conspiracy and we should be 'free'. The International Monetary Fund tells us it will reduce investment, and the Brexiteers say they they're part of a conspiracy. President Obama tells us, in person, out loud, to our faces, that the US will not negotiate free trade with us for years, and the Brexiteers tell him and us that he doesn't know what he's talking about. BMW tells its workers that it will invest less in this country, and the Brexiteers tell them they're blackmailing the work force.
I know the EU does some stupid things. But it does some good too. And if we're going to tackle the stupid things, stropping off and shouting 'Freedom!' while we accuse everyone else of conspiracy, invent fantasy futures, and ignore the realities of how the EU and the US have said they will treat us if we leave.
-
I'm tempted, but I won't ;D
-
PMSL , this is just like our voting or should I say people that can't get off there arse and vote. Get off the fence you lame ducks. 242 visits and 11 posts.
No wonder the country is in poop.
-
im out................... im sure we can do much better without interference from the eurocrats!
-
Out
Just read this on another forum. It's brilliant.
A response to the below leaflet
What Experts are Saying
The first thing to understand about experts is that historically on the questions of the ERM and the Euro they all got it absolutely wrong. The second point I would make is that often they are supporting their own self interest. Just one example. Big business represented by the CBI like the EU because with their counterparts in the EU they can write the rules of the market which often run counter to the interests of small and medium businesses. It is from the latter that growth in the economy really comes.
The sayings of the "Experts " are largely conjecture, none of it backed up with hard fact. They could just as easily say that the moon is made of green cheese. None of them in this document have come back with a piece of it.
Martin Lewis
On what basis does he suggest we will have less to spend. It is as fatuous as suggesting that we will have more to spend. He does not know.
Francis O'Grady
He may have concerns for workers rights, but I have heard no one suggesting that on leaving that workers will be stripped of any rights. The right that workers and the electorate do not have in the EU is that of changing the EU via an election. The EU is not answerable to any electorate.
Richard Branson
He makes a bland statement and fails to back it up. On past record, Branson is only interested in what is good for Branson.
Cathy Warwick
She fails to explain why staying in the EU is best for women and midwives.
Karen Brady
She should know that UK business will create jobs if it is successful, irrespective of where it trades. UK trade outside the EU is in surplus and growing. Inside the EU it is in deficit and shrinking.
Mark Carney
He is talking rubbish to satisfy his master at the Treasury, one George Osborne. If anywhere is becoming financially unstable it is the EU and the Euro zone. It is a shrinking entity in terms of World trade and likewise as a customer of the UK. Of the £19 Billion the UK pays to the EU each year around £9 billion comes back to the UK as either rebate or handouts to UK organisations of the EU's choosing. The CBI, Universities, BBC, Farmers and anywhere else it can buy influence. The EU costs us a net £10 Billion per annum.
Important Information
Jobs.
While 3 Million jobs may be linked to trade with the EU, no responsible person is suggesting that they will end if we leave. The EU sells us £60 Billion per annum more than we sell them. Does anyone honestly think that they would wish to jeopardise this by putting barriers in the way of our trade with them.
Family Finances
The £4300 is a worst scenario drop in GDP amortised over the number of households in the UK, dressed up to look as if it will cost each family £4300. At best it is a finger in the wind worst scenario, dreamt up by the Treasury on behalf of George Osborne to scare the electorate into voting remain. Incidentally the Treasury have an abysmal record at forecasting anything. Just look at the way their predictions have changed over the last nine months. For them to look forward for ten years or more and predict is utterly ridiculous.
Businesses.
Who has suggested that 200,000 businesses currently trading with the EU will cease trading on us leaving the EU. Incidentally HMRC cannot run their own business never mind make judgements about the fortunes of real businesses.
Prices.
When we buy agricultural products from the EU it costs us a fortune relative to World prices. We contribute to the CAP, the EU blocks the import of cheaper food to protect it's own inefficient farming industry. CAP is also financing various corrupt practices which is why the EU court of auditors has never signed off EU accounts for twenty years. By being outside the EU we could support our own dairy farmers if it was considered strategically sensible, using some of the £19 billion we would no longer be paying to the EU. We could also buy in the World market place and save a fortune in food imports while helping developing countries to survive.
Public Services.
There is every chance that leaving the EU and being free to trade with the rest of the World would boost the UK economy. If we spent the £9 Billion of our money that the EU spends in the UK plus the additional £10 Billion we pay that disappears into the EU coffers, then our public services and infrastructure could benefit enormously. This is another Treasury scare story from George Osborne.
This pamphlet is pure propaganda designed to frighten the electorate into staying in the EU.
-
Good post John. Everyone goes on about Norway and Sweden, what about Turkey, they pay not a penny and their goods are everywhere, Beko, Hatsan Guns , agricultural equipment etc.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/turkey/
They have all the bonny marbles, exporting to the EU and the rest of the world.
-
I suggest all of you people voting to quit has a flutter, according to ciu poll 36 are saying out with 12 staying in, but of course we all know that majority of those saying leave wont vote.
......... and the latest odds are 1/6 to stay with a whopping 4 /1 to leave .
Think I will have a few quid on staying.
Geoff
-
That's probably because it's already been decided...we will stop whether it gets voted out or not.
Look what happened in Ireland.......
-
That's probably because it's already been decided...we will stop whether it gets voted out or not.
Look what happened in Ireland.......
So not much point in me voting then !!!!
Think I will just up my stake if that statement is a fact.
Geoff
-
........ what about Turkey, they pay not a penny and their goods are everywhere, Beko, Hatsan Guns , agricultural equipment etc.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/turkey/
They have all the bonny marbles, exporting to the EU and the rest of the world.
Good point John - but average monthly wages in Turkey over the last few years £584 . In contrast average monthly wages over the same time span in the UK £2330 . No wonder that people buy the goods from Turkey. Opting out of the EU is not going to change that - or you raise import duties on those kind of household essential items and inflation goes through the roof causing interest rates to soar and all those carpet cleaners with a mortgage could end up homeless ;)
The choice in 4 weeks time is yours guys - I 'm not allowed to vote.
-
It's got to be IN. All barriers to movement of people & money should be reduced over time - it's a process, not a one-time decision, and leaving the EU would be a backward step towards a ridiculous Little England, when the rest of the world are getting closer & closer.
Cameron got the opt-out from "ever closer union", we'll never need to join the Euro.
I want the freedom to move, live & work wherever in the world I fancy - I'd quite like to spend a few years in USA, or Kenya.
If I want that freedom, I should vote to extend it to others.
-
You would not be allowed to just go and work in the USA , they have control over their borders.
-
Lets face FACTS. If we vote to come out of Europe house prices will tumble, rents will skyrocket, we will be plunged into recession, the national health service will crumble , America will turn its back on us , we will be invaded by Russia and world war 3 will break out. I know these facts to be true........David Cameron told me so!
Lol brilliant
Brilliant lol
-
It's got to be IN. All barriers to movement of people & money should be reduced over time - it's a process, not a one-time decision, and leaving the EU would be a backward step towards a ridiculous Little England, when the rest of the world are
getting closer & closer.
If it was for a world union I would be semi interested but a crumbling euro zone that need us to survive no thanks.
Makes me laugh when they said a trade deal will takes years to arrange if we left euro zone but can you imagine how much that would hurt the euro.
Believe me it would be weeks or days as Germany would lose billions through Bosch, seat, vw, skoda, Audi, bmw, Mercedes mini
French Citroen, Peugeot Renault cheese and wine.
Europe and Antarctica are the only economy's not to double in size since 2006
Norway were told the same lies as we are being told now but look how well they are doing.
What's the worst that can happen we have to get a visa to visit euro zone (if it lasts without us) but at least we will be able to afford to go on holidays.
Cameron got the opt-out from "ever closer union", we'll never need to join the Euro.
I want the freedom to move, live & work wherever in the world I fancy - I'd quite like to spend a few years in USA, or Kenya.
If I want that freedom, I should vote to extend it to others.
-
If it was for a world union I would be semi interested but a crumbling euro zone that need us to survive no thanks.
Makes me laugh when they said a trade deal will takes years to arrange if we left euro zone but can you imagine how much that would hurt the euro.
Believe me it would be weeks or days as Germany would lose billions through Bosch, seat, vw, skoda, Audi, bmw, Mercedes mini
French Citroen, Peugeot Renault cheese and wine.
Europe and Antarctica are the only economy's not to double in size since 2006
Norway were told the same lies as we are being told now but look how well they are doing.
What's the worst that can happen we have to get a visa to visit euro zone (if it lasts without us) but at least we will be able to afford to go on holidays.
-
Very true Sean .....next time you are on the motorway count the Europeans vehicles around you and in just one minute you will see the reason the trade won't be stopped anytime soon ....the question I ask myself is no natter who the people are on my island of birth when exactly are we full?
-
If we go with the No vote and opt out trade will not change as everyone wants our money wether it be Europe or whoever the trade links will still be there.
As Micky Flannagan would say 'I'm out out'
-
You're right Shaun - everyone wants our money - and they'll probably get it. Problem is that nobody else wants to give you money - so your going to run out - hence the economy will shrink.
I'm astonished by the trend in the poll. Big business can easily move their operations to mainland Europe (after all it's a substantially larger market than little Britain). Foreign investment would take the same approach - go for the larger market. Those who run them can still reside in the UK but the workforce will be continental. Why would medium and small time operators in the cleaning industry want to see business disappear to the continent & unemployment rise. Surely that is just reducing your market
-
You're right Shaun - everyone wants our money - and they'll probably get it. Problem is that nobody else wants to give you money - so your going to run out - hence the economy will shrink.
I'm astonished by the trend in the poll. Big business can easily move their operations to mainland Europe (after all it's a substantially larger market than little Britain). Foreign investment would take the same approach - go for the larger market. Those who run them can still reside in the UK but the workforce will be continental. Why would medium and small time operators in the cleaning industry want to see business disappear to the continent & unemployment rise. Surely that is just reducing your market
Oh dear. Doom and gloom by the sounds of it Francis. How do other countries that are not part of a union cope?
Are you saying we are the 5th richest nation in the world because of Europe?? LOL
-
Most of the rest of the world are not in Europe and most of the rest of the world are doing ok.
The establishment needs a bloody good shake up in all country's and especially in ours. Let's hope people come to their senses and this is the start of it.
-
The economy is big because we turn money around which is good but the national debt gets bigger because we are feeding the economy with our own money for the benefit of others which is a far most costly exercise.
-
To me it is more about the principle of democracy...
We in the UK have one of the finest democracy systems in the world..
We vote in our leaders, who then run the Country to the wishes of the electorate (in theory)...
However.... how does that work when they are being told what to do by un-elected masters in Europe??
For example.. it has been much publicised that we pay the EU £350M a week, They then give us half of that back in the form of grants... HOWEVER.... only to be spent on what the EU allow.....
Where is the democracy there??
-
Knowing everything we already know about the EU, And with Turkey being fast tracked to join soon.
If the vote was to join the EU, would you join?
I'm voting out.
-
If you look at the polls, the younger generation are voting for 'in' by a massive margin. The older generation are voting for 'out'.
The young generation understand the inevitable concept of globalization, us old farts don't
-
Carpet Dawg
[/quote]
Are you saying we are the 5th richest nation in the world because of Europe?? LOL
[/quote]
We are the 5th richest nation in terms of personal wealth not state wealth. Alot of this is due to us being part of Europe.
-
I thought we were 5th due to GDP
-
To start with I was in and looking forward to all the reasoned debate and impartial factual discussion of the facts ;D ;D so then we got the good ol US of A telling us we had to stay in, mainly for their benefit, this was a real game changer for me. Then we have all the other scare tactics from Dave and others and I realised I was fed up with Europe and being ruled by them.
I was never a great fan tbh but now I think Out and fill that bloody tunnel up, we can stand on our own two feet and punch above our weight in every sense.
They say our intelligance will suffer, well we are one of the best in the world in dealing with terrorists. We will get invaded, not whilst we have trident, unless Corbyn is elected. Workers rights will suffer, like Steelworkers pensions being stolen? not seeing much from Europe about that. Zero hours no human rights for those on Zero hours paid a pittence with no job security etc how did that get past Europe.
Any benefit we get from Europe never benefits us even down to duty free shopping!! But apparently if we leave we still will have to have open borders if we want to trade with Europe!!
The problem is if we vote to leave it doesn't mean leave and it will be a further 2 or more years before we start, but you have to start somewhere so I will vote to leave and hope we can get our spirit back and stop being held to account by unelected Europeans.
-
If we leave then we leave the club not the world! the effect will be minimal we are resilient we just accommodate, the EU are scared that if we go it will then send a message to other members.
-
jands is right, we will either vote to stay in, or the rules will be changed, goal posts moved, until we do stay in. The euro project will not be allowed to fail, its a forgone conclusion, the eurocrats dont want us out, and they wont allow us to be out in my opinion,
and long may we be ruled by unelected eurocrats feathering thier nests and happily eroding whats left of our country!!!
i actually thing the vote will be to stay in by a small margin, and i really dread this happening................
the level of debate and the lack of information regarding this vote, which will determine the way our nation is governed
is actually a scandal........ Cameron wants hanging by the neck, he is turning out to be almost as bad as Tony Bliar......
-
In the first referendum I voted to join what was then the Common Market. This was because being in the army and seeing what was going on first hand in the rest of Europe especially Germany and just how backward by comparison little UK was at the time. In Europe consumer items were years ahead of us, cars too. What they built and were driving in Germany took 4 years to reach us. We've caught up since and that is one of the reasons that I am undecided at the moment.
Dave.
-
Democracy...a bit of a joke really
Powerful figures are trying to bully the population to their way of thinking...
QUESTION ...I would love to ask them what's in it for them?....could I get a truly honest answer?
The ordinary people torn between IN or OUT are being lied to ...
Many people are intending to vote influenced by what it means to them personally
I try to take the long term view of how our Country will be in ten, twenty, fifty years time
-
The upcoming EU referendum isn't a vote about the future of our relationship with Europe, but is a vote about the future of Great Britain.
The EU is the most undemocratic, supposedly democratic institution on the planet and I feel it is important for the younger generations to understand this point.
Back in 1975 when I was the same age as my children who are all in their twenties, a referendum was held and the question posed was, did we want to join the Common Market?
The Common Market was nothing more than a trading block where member countries could trade freely with each other without import or export duties – that was it. So we voted yes, why wouldn't we?
Little did we know that that was only the first step towards a grand European project that if allowed to reach its ultimate conclusion will end up with us all of the populations of the member countries becoming citizens of The United States of Europe with one central government in Strasbourg.
So you have to ask yourself the question, how did we go from one vote to join a common market to the European Union that we have today? Did we vote for any of those changes, changes that have fundamentally changed what it is to be British? No we did not!!
And if we supposedly live in a democracy, how on earth can the common market have become the European Union, with all of instruments of a state, a parliament, a central bank, a currency, (though thankfully we aren't in the Euro) a judiciary and entwined into this grand project the notion of free movement of people – when did we vote for that?
The fact is, we didn't, nor we were we supposed to because if the implications of any one of those changes had been put to us we would have said, no. So it has all been done through treaty changes agreed and signed off on by heads of government, completely bypassing the democratic process.
At the very least, fifty percent of the new laws that apply in Britain are made in Europe, subjugating the British Parliament to the will of our European masters - masters we couldn't even name. Do you know the name of your MEP? I thought not, neither do I!
If we don't like our current government then we, the people, have the right to vote them out of power. How on earth do we have the right to do the same in Europe, the answer is, we don't, which begs the question, how on earth can it be said that we live in a democratic country when the power of our parliament and the power of the people who elect it is systematically being taken from us and the EU takes more and more powers away from us?
So to the youngsters of today. I know you have lived your entire life in the European Union and so know nothing else and yet now you are being asked to decide whether to remain or leave and that must be a quite daunting prospect for you. Indeed the question before you is far more all encompassing than the simple question put before my generation, so I will ask you this. If in the forty years since the last referendum all of the fundamental changes listed above and many, many more have come to pass outside of the democratic process, then what in the next forty years will the European Union of 2056 look like? By then there will be many more changes, none of which will be the result of the democratic process and you will be sitting there wishing you had never voted to remain, I guarantee you that.
So this isn't a vote about Europe, whether we should remain in the EU or not, it is a vote about Britain’s future. A country that has existed for thousands of years, a country steeped in history, a country who's parliamentary and judicial systems are the model for almost every democratic country in the world. This is the greatest nation on the planet and millions of British men and woman fought and died in two world wars so that we might be free, free from European rule and yet here we are in 2016 on the very cusp of giving away the very thing they thought they were saving us from, so that we might live as a free and independent nation, is that really how we honour them, to have betrayed them? I sincerely hope not.
So if, do we want to join the common market was the question before us in 1975 and since then so many powers have been systematically stripped of us, by stealth and slight of hand, as a consequence of that vote, then you can rest assured if you vote remain, you won't just be voting to remain in the EU but unwittingly giving the green light to ever more fundamental changes to what it means to be British. Britain, for the first time in its long history being ruled from abroad? Put a cross in the remain box and that is what you will get.
For me this is a vote about patriotism and just like the millions of British soldiers who took up arms to defend our nation, you too have a mighty sword in your hand on June 23rd, not a weapon of war, but a weapon of choice and you get the opportunity to decide the fate of this great nation, so lets take it back into our own hands, meet the problems head on and face the future together a free and independent nation.
Vote for Britain – vote LEAVE!!!
Simon
-
well said
Boris oops Simon..
-
Simon
You will never be a politician...you are telling the truth ::)roll
-
;D :D
Thankfully, I don't want to be someone who thinks that skewing the issues to suit their own agenda is an honourable thing. They want us to vote, remain because they want to scare us into believing that the world will come to an end unless we vote for what they want.
The nightmare isn't leaving, it is remaining to be served up yet more change. If we leave will there be problems in the short term, yes, probably, but what will happen is that we won't just be living in Britain, we will once again be living in Great Britain and that is worth any short term problems we encounter.
Simon
-
For some reason...Land of hope and glory was playing in my mind whilst reading that...
;D
-
I think Simon's post has made my mind up once and for all.Very well written
-
The greatest freedom we can have is the freedom to live and work wherever we want. The EU goes quite a long way towards that - we can retire to Spain, or start a business in France. No-one can stop us going anywhere within the EU.
It would be nice to have that freedom extended across the world, but that will be in the future.
It's a narrow-minded retrograde step to restrict that freedom for ourselves, and for other people, by leaving the EU.
We don't stop people from Northumberland living in London - although a thousand years ago we would have done, because they would have been in different kingdoms. The world will inevitably get closer over time. Voting to leave the EU is like building a sandcastle to keep the tide out.
-
So you would like to have free movement of people around the world....?
-
Max,
That is not the point.
We did not vote for the free movement of people, it, along with a myriad other things came in through treaty changes beyond the democratic process.
Simon
-
So you would like to have free movement of people around the world....?
Absolutely.
I don't see why anyone should have the right to stop anyone else living and working where they choose.
-
Max,
That is not the point.
We did not vote for the free movement of people, it, along with a myriad other things came in through treaty changes beyond the democratic process.
Simon
Democracy is much overrated - most people are too stupid to be trusted with a vote.
-
So you would like to have free movement of people around the world....?
Absolutely.
I don't see why anyone should have the right to stop anyone else living and working where they choose.
Anyone ?
-
Max,
That is not the point.
We did not vote for the free movement of people, it, along with a myriad other things came in through treaty changes beyond the democratic process.
Simon
Democracy is much overrated - most people are too stupid to be trusted with a vote.
Wow. Hopefully your joking but if your not, WOW...
I for one DON'T want free movement of people. Does that make me a bad person?
I also understand that if I ever chose to live in another country I'd have to be vetted and show that I can bring some good to the country. That's the way it should be.
-
Max if most people are too stupid to vote does that means thousands of soldiers who fight for our freedom cant vote because they arent Eton educated?.................can anyone tell me if the europeans can ever force us to drive on the right?...............Alan
-
I think Simon's post has made my mind up once and for all.Very well written
So you have your mind made up by a c/c my god , now I do wonder what state this country could be in if every body was taken in like you!! , because somebody else could just as easy could spout out so called facts and figures to stay in.
So when finaly we all have voted and we are still in the EU , will all of the doom and gloom moaners be moving else where?
Geoff
-
90% of the doom and gloom has come from the remain side, a daily flood of famine and pestilence as with today's rubbish about junior schools better off with pupils from the EU......seriously do people actually fall for this propaganda
-
Top post Simon well done, out out out
David
-
I think Simon's post has made my mind up once and for all.Very well written
So you have your mind made up by a c/c my god , now I do wonder what state this country could be in if every body was taken in like you!! , because somebody else could just as easy could spout out so called facts and figures to stay in.
So when finaly we all have voted and we are still in the EU , will all of the doom and gloom moaners be moving else where?
Yes I have my mind made up by a CC - rather that than a corrupt lying politician
Geoff
-
I don't know what happened to my above reply but yes I think I'd rather have my mind made up by a Cc than a lying politician
-
Max I cleaned for one of your old customers the other day they moved to Sheffield last year the husband is a web designer.
-
Shaun.............hope you charged him Titan Rates otherwise he will think that you are too cheap compared to Max!!
-
Max I cleaned for one of your old customers the other day they moved to Sheffield last year the husband is a web designer.
Ian K? - he was a neighbour, and we always gave him mates rates! He designed our first website, now superseded.
-
iam out
-
Very nice people made a very nice cup of coffee.
-
Having seen Cameron's pathetic performance on the SKY Q&A last night, (really poor), I wonder if people still believe the bull he spouts on a daily basis and then Merkel weighs in to make a bad day an even worse one.
-
With all due respect, Judging by your post, you misunderstand the term 'fascism' ;)
Yes agreed it is an abused and also much used term - generally now at least in the UK applied to anyone who has (democratic) power but who one disagrees with! But the poster has a point about unelected bureaucrats on the Commission which makes important decisions and wields power not conferred democratically - very loosely that is fascism to all intents and purposes as they think they know best and are authoritarian and dictatorial in the way they hand down decisions they have taken 'for the common good' supposedly of the rest of the Union - they are not very right wing admittedly and that is a problem for many Tories and always will be - we have this sneaking suspicion in this country that 'continentals' understand socialism just a little bit better than we ever can do and therefore have a secret agenda to turn us all into liberals. Perish the thought!
I have already voted here and in reality - had to before I changed my mind again!
We have very few opportunities in this (or any truly democratic) country to express our democratic rights and when they come along you should grab it round the neck with both hands - if you are not actively involved with politics it is the only influence you will ever have - the rest is just so much hot air - like a lot of what I have just typed...
-
With all due respect, Judging by your post, you misunderstand the term 'fascism' ;)
Yes agreed it is an abused and also much used term - generally now at least in the UK applied to anyone who has (democratic) power but who one disagrees with! But the poster has a point about unelected bureaucrats on the Commission which makes important decisions and wields power not conferred democratically - very loosely that is fascism to all intents and purposes as they think they know best and are authoritarian and dictatorial in the way they hand down decisions they have taken 'for the common good' supposedly of the rest of the Union - they are not very right wing admittedly and that is a problem for many Tories and always will be - we have this sneaking suspicion in this country that 'continentals' understand socialism just a little bit better than we ever can do and therefore have a secret agenda to turn us all into liberals. Perish the thought!
I have already voted here and in reality - had to before I changed my mind again!
We have very few opportunities in this (or any truly democratic) country to express our democratic rights and when they come along you should grab it round the neck with both hands - if you are not actively involved with politics it is the only influence you will ever have - the rest is just so much hot air - like a lot of what I have just typed...
Nice to see that you are consistent though Dave... ;) :-* :-*
;D ;D
-
Geoff,
I'm not sure what your point is.
But, have you heard any politician pointing out just how undemocratic the EU has become and with it try to explain how we have got from one vote 49 years ago on wether or not we wanted to join the Common Market to a situation where we have a European Parliament, a judiciary, a central bank and a currency and have signed up to the notion of free movement of people. If and its a big if, but if we had been asked through the democratic process if we approved of all of these things then we would have no right to complain about it. The fact that we weren't and it was all done by stealth and slight of hand then in my opinion we have every right to complain about it, and so we should and the best way of doing that it to vote: LEAVE!!!
-
Just shows you how out of touch they are. Two weeks ago they thought it was a easy win for the remain party.
Now they have had a couple of debates and actually spoke to the real public , they now know that most want out.
I only know 2 people that are voting remain and I must have spoken to dozens and dozens who are voting out.
-
What was noticeable was how SKY News shifted to the remain camp in the last few days in a big way, all remain and especially Farage reporting is negative, according to SKY this morning Cameron won that Q&A last night (neither won it) and in an interview with a economics expert from the City of London yesterday evening they kept cutting him off on all the points he made rebuffing what Greg Hands was saying on the cost of leaving even at point losing sound, leaving Hands to have the final very important point with guy shaking his head in disgust in the background...........blatant bias ,along with the BBC who do not even bother to hide it anymore.