Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ajcleaner on April 05, 2016, 03:47:32 pm

Title: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 05, 2016, 03:47:32 pm
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1459867298_image.jpeg)
Brand new sofa, not cleaned only applied Fluoracarbon based stain protector after patch testing . After drying all the purple coloured stopes on the base cushions have changed colour to pink. The frame and backrest cushions have remained true colour. Anyone come across this before and if so is there anything I can do to remedy it or is it an insurance claim?
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: CleanerCarpets on April 05, 2016, 04:08:39 pm
which brand of protector was it - may help

and do you know the fabric type - was there anything on the care label?

may have been a true dry clean only fabric and a solvent protector may have been the option to take

not seen a suite like that before - what brand is it?
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 05, 2016, 04:42:19 pm
Hi,it's not all the fabric that has been affected just the seat cushions,no care labels were on the suite,fabric was tested before application.protector is sta pro by bio productions,used it for years and never had any problems make is duressta
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 05, 2016, 06:11:53 pm
Could you tell me what is the pH value of the protector you used?
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Raymondo on April 05, 2016, 06:23:53 pm
I had one go like that many years ago it ended up as an insurance claim at the time there was no forums was not a member of the NCCA no one to ask for help things have changed since then.

I still think it was correctable but the ins company paid out on it.

Get hold of the cossh sheet for the product you used to get the PH value.

Was it this product cant seem to download the coshh sheet.

http://bio-productions.com/products/fabric-protector/
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 05, 2016, 06:30:02 pm
No don't have the ph value at the moment am currently looking for coshh sheet in the office at the moment
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 05, 2016, 06:40:20 pm
Yes that's the one
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: CleanerCarpets on April 05, 2016, 07:52:05 pm
Duresta use a lot of fine fabrics - a lot of viscose in their ranges

One that i always check and double check along with Laura Ashleys

You would think it would be ph to affect the colour but strange only the seat cushions affected  - just looked on their site but on the MSDS page it doesnt let you view it for that product
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Adrian Walton on April 05, 2016, 09:53:36 pm
maybe an indicater dye problem.
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 05, 2016, 10:14:30 pm
Anyone come across this problem and linked it to a flame retardant treatment on the inner lining?
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: David Deer on April 06, 2016, 12:37:52 am
The ph of their solvent protector is 5.5. No msds on their website for the water based one.  :(
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 06, 2016, 09:12:01 am
It is strange the discolouration is only on the seat cushion (could it be that more protector was used here?) and only the one stripe.

I would suspect that the affected stripe is Viscose

If it were anything to do with a Fire retardant interlining I would have expected the discolouration not to be restricted to one stripe of colour
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Raymondo on April 06, 2016, 09:19:57 am
The problem is for some reason the protector has changed the colour why we don't know.

If it goes to the insurance company they will just pay out no investigation why it changed colour. That's what happened to us.

Then it happens again to the next carpet cleaner who applies a protector to the same fabric the cycle just continues.

The affected cushion need sending to someone in the industry who is able to correct the problem and find out what caused it.
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 06, 2016, 09:22:21 am
Hopefully speak duressta  today and see if they can shed any light,have spoken to the chemist at bio productions and they suggested trying bicarbonate test to see if that will do anything otherwise it looks like an insurance claim
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Steve Chapman on April 06, 2016, 09:38:41 am
Surely it should be the protector company taking the responsibility if you have used it according to the guidelines.....

Its fabric protector and you've used it on fabric, so if its caused damage its not fit for purpose in my opinion.

Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: John Kelly on April 06, 2016, 09:51:03 am
I would disagree. The fabric is at fault not the protector. It is standard industry practice, both ours and the upholstery manufacturing, for fabrics to be protected. Fabric protection is a multi million pound business mainly carried out by the furnture retailers.
If a fabric reacts like this and only in one specific area then that fabric is faulty. If it was me I would fight it and put it back to the manufacturers.

As the Protector is on the acid side Sodium Bicarbonate may reverse it. Mix some up spray it on and leave.
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Steve Chapman on April 06, 2016, 10:40:48 am
You're probably right John,   but getting either company to take responsibilty will take a miracle.......

I would be loathed to claim on my insurance if this happened to me ......  I had sofa last year turned bright pink , Laura Ashley one,  and after a bit of a search found there were loads of complaints similar, although I dont think Laura Ashley took any responsibilty for any of them......

Fortunately reversed after using Bicarbonate of soda on it, took five attempts though.........

Surely these companies should disclose whether certain materials  can be cleaned or protected and tell the customer when they buy it........ would save a lot of hassle........
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 06, 2016, 04:35:20 pm
Steve

The last sentence in your post made me laugh......

Laura Ashley are well aware of the pH sensitive dye issue.... I, for one, have informed them and suggested that before purchasing fabrics they should be tested as to cleanability

Their answer....'that would be too expensive'...  the mind boggles

Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: John Kelly on April 06, 2016, 05:50:51 pm
Derek I think its an absolute disgrace. These are expensive products and they are being made with sub standard crap materials. Same goes for floor coverings which are totally unfit for purpose. Have a customer who Host cleans a £10,000 Seagrass carpet in a yacht club bar area. It was knackered after 6 months. Surely they are contravening consumer law where a product has to be fit for purpose.
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 06, 2016, 06:36:28 pm
John

I am in full agreement with you...it is a disgrace

Retailers play the numbers game...sell one hundred items ...one or two complaints and they can write them off...especially when the amount they pay for the items from the manufacturers is taken into consideration

But as they say that's another story

Have a good week
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: homenclean on April 06, 2016, 06:56:57 pm
I would say acid pinking. Similar thing happened to me on a suite last year only few weeks old but took some hammer after a kids party so wanted a few areas cleaned, every where was fine apart from one arm which pinked. Customer was great and admitted it wasn't my fault and complained to the company who made it, must have been a faulty batch of fabric. They replaced it and discontinued that fabric guy said big corner sofa was over £ 8000. Still do all carpets in the house twice a year.
John
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on April 06, 2016, 09:27:46 pm
Derek I think its an absolute disgrace. These are expensive products and they are being made with sub standard crap materials. Same goes for floor coverings which are totally unfit for purpose. Have a customer who Host cleans a £10,000 Seagrass carpet in a yacht club bar area. It was knackered after 6 months. Surely they are contravening consumer law where a product has to be fit for purpose.
I can think of two other totally unsuitable fabrics-especially for flooring:

Leather carpets

and I once saw a 10% cashmere carpet in a lounge :o :o :o You almost only had to look at it to see it disintegrating. Looked beautiful, mind.

Rog
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Steve Chapman on April 07, 2016, 12:09:06 pm
The amount of people i see also that have been sold seagrass & sisal as if its the holy grail of carpets only to find its almost impossible to clean........
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 07, 2016, 03:16:16 pm
You see.. we cleaning technicians know all this...we have to..

The retailers/buyers.... well all I can say is 'there are none so blind as those who don't want to see'
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: John Kelly on April 07, 2016, 04:37:52 pm
On more than one occasion I have had to do insurance reports on BHT yellowing when "experts" from either the carpet retailer or manufacturer have been out scratched their heads and said "it must be something you've used to clean it"
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 08, 2016, 08:40:17 am
Quite a common problem some years ago John

Causes...
1. Manufacturers using cheap foam interior paddings
2. Off gassing of shrink wrap coverings used during delivery and storage

Much of it could be removed, at the time, by rinsing using an acid rinse agent. ....I said 'at the time' as we now have the pH sensitive dyes to contend with
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Adam Eastman on April 08, 2016, 03:15:05 pm
Not all us retailers play the number game  :)

I have lost count of the amount of times my colleagues and I have explained all the downsides of seagrass, sisal, jute ect to the consumer and sold the benefits of a wool alternative, and they still order the seagrass, because they have seen it in their interior magazines and that is what they want.

On the rare occasion you have to say no because its the wrong environment for the product, but other then that, if its what the customer wants, the customers always right, aren't they  ??? 

 

Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: DB on April 08, 2016, 07:19:15 pm
I do agree Adam... I have come across some of the smaller shops who do exactly as you do...in the cases I have dealt with the real decider has been  down to price.... in fact when I questioned one salesman a few years ago after I had just tried to deal with a complaint on their behalf  where an incorrect carpet had been installed for the area it was required in. ...his reply '' but they only had a fixed amount to spend, if I had tried to advise them on the correct (more expensive) carpet I would have lost the sale''.

I can fully appreciate his dilemma...they would have simply moved on to the next shop where they would sell them what 'they' wanted

Of course you are correct again some of the 'designers' do talk the natural fibre carpeting up as  attractive/trendy.. my original comment was aimed at some of the larger 'shed' style retailers.
Once again quite a few of these larger establishments no longer supply the carpeting you mentioned as it has caused them problems in the past
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: ajcleaner on April 09, 2016, 05:25:23 pm
Update on sofa, been back to it today and treated it to a wash with bicarbonate of soda.....now back to original colour although I suspect it will need a 2 no visit to ensure no pink can be visible, thanks for all your advice👍👍
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Steve Chapman on April 10, 2016, 07:13:12 pm
Its nice when you can go and rectify things like that............Customers often really respect you also when you come up with a solution for them........
Title: Re: New sofa problem
Post by: Buckland on April 10, 2016, 11:03:57 pm
The amount of people i see also that have been sold seagrass & sisal as if its the holy grail of carpets only to find its almost impossible to clean........

So true steve - and often they are people with absolutely the wrong lifestyle to suit that floor covering i.e. dogs, babies etc - looks rubbish after a few months and cannot be cleaned the way a carpet can be restored to near new condition