Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on March 16, 2016, 06:16:02 pm
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........this is a first for me in 6 years of wfp.........a customer comes out as im on my way over to start his neighbours house"erm...i think we ll leave the windows in future.we are going to try someone else as my wife reckons you ve scratched the glass on 2 upper windows round the back".
these are recently fitted new windows about 3 months old.i basically said its very common for people to have new windows fitted and to see scratches in bright sunlight that have been there since the windows were fitted.(it was very sunny this afternoon)im adamant i havent scratched the windows.i couldnt take a look as he had 3 landscapers digging the garden/patio up round the back.
this was a £16 monthly job that ive been cleaning for around 7 years.good as gold good paying customer.
im pretty miffed TBH.if in doubt!BLAME THE WINDOW CLEANER! ::)roll >:(
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I've seen some pretty poor quality double glazing fitted in my time. Everything from scratched glass, to units that ware poorly cleaned before assembly. On two occasions I've come across hand prints on the inside of double glazed units. Trouble is if the damage is to the outside of the glass and you don't see it and bring it to the customer's attention before you clean it, it can be difficult to convince them you didn't or couldn't have done it. I've lost a handful of customers over the years that have accused me of damaging their windows. A couple have even accused WFP of causing the seals to blow on their windows. I tried explaining that they would have blown whichever method I used as they don't last forever. But once they get an idea in their mind that wfp is to blame it can be very difficult to persuade them otherwise.
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Ruthless customer puts window cleaner in his place.
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this can be a pain 8)
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........this is a first for me in 6 years of wfp.........a customer comes out as im on my way over to start his neighbours house"erm...i think we ll leave the windows in future.we are going to try someone else as my wife reckons you ve scratched the glass on 2 upper windows round the back".
Sounds odd... So does the husband believe you scratched the glass? I reckon he's 'under the thumb' and has been told to pass the message onto you. I had something similar last year whereby the husband thought WFP had left some smears on two upper windows but his wife didn't seem to agree with him ...
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The problem seems to be that the scratches are never on the inside.
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........this is a first for me in 6 years of wfp.........a customer comes out as im on my way over to start his neighbours house"erm...i think we ll leave the windows in future.we are going to try someone else as my wife reckons you ve scratched the glass on 2 upper windows round the back".
these are recently fitted new windows about 3 months old.i basically said its very common for people to have new windows fitted and to see scratches in bright sunlight that have been there since the windows were fitted.(it was very sunny this afternoon)im adamant i havent scratched the windows.i couldnt take a look as he had 3 landscapers digging the garden/patio up round the back.
this was a £16 monthly job that ive been cleaning for around 7 years.good as gold good paying customer.
im pretty miffed TBH.if in doubt!BLAME THE WINDOW CLEANER! ::)roll >:(
I think the thing that miffs you in these situations is not whether or not you scratched the glass, and i've no doubt for a minute that you did. I'd think it was during installation or transport, but leaving that aside they don't ask you to fix anything, question you, ask your advice or anything. Like Cillit bang...................bumf !!!! You're gone !!! ;D They'd be gone out my head too, i wouldn't give it another thought.
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The problem seems to be that the scratches are never on the inside.
Most if not all modern units are now installed from the outside. And the outside of the glass is where all the handling, pushing of the pane takes place. Along with putting a hand on it while you belt the beading in with a rubber mallet.................
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The thing that miffs me is you cleaned the windows while the landscapers were digging up the garden. . ;D
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The thing that miffs me is you cleaned the windows while the landscapers were digging up the garden. . ;D
.i couldnt take a look as he had 3 landscapers digging the garden/patio up round the back.
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The thing that miffs me is you cleaned the windows while the landscapers were digging up the garden. . ;D
i didnt clean his windows!i was going to skip his this month anyway due to landscaping work. :)
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Ruthless customer puts window cleaner in his place.
;D ;D ;D
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The thing that miffs me is you cleaned the windows while the landscapers were digging up the garden. . ;D
i didnt clean his windows!i was going to skip his this month anyway due to landscaping work. :)
My bad Daz.. I misread your post, I thought you had cleaned them when custie approached you ::)roll
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The problem seems to be that the scratches are never on the inside.
Most if not all modern units are now installed from the outside. And the outside of the glass is where all the handling, pushing of the pane takes place. Along with putting a hand on it while you belt the beading in with a rubber mallet.................
That along with the fact that they seem to get covered in silicone and general dirt, that I've then seen builders take a rusty blade too.
This is where the damage is done.
A wfp brush with water running will never scratch glass.
You would have to trap something harder than glass (like sand or grit) onto the glass and drag it across the window.
The water washes all the grit away so that doesn't happen. Only time I've seen wfp scratch glass is when the stock comes in contact with the glass.
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...and what are the chances i scratched 2 NEW WINDOWS that ironically enough had not long been fitted.
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It is a bit crap that you build up a relationship with a customer and provide years of good service and they don't even have the decency to consider that it may NOT have been you. If it was me I would try and go back and see the scratches for myself, just for peace of mind.
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you can sometimes pick grit up off ledges etc keeping in brush
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The problem seems to be that the scratches are never on the inside.
Most if not all modern units are now installed from the outside. And the outside of the glass is where all the handling, pushing of the pane takes place. Along with putting a hand on it while you belt the beading in with a rubber mallet.................
all my new windows are installed from the inside with the beading on the inside
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The problem seems to be that the scratches are never on the inside.
Most if not all modern units are now installed from the outside. And the outside of the glass is where all the handling, pushing of the pane takes place. Along with putting a hand on it while you belt the beading in with a rubber mallet.................
all my new windows are installed from the inside with the beading on the inside
You checked for silicon and scratches ?
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Sadly this is just one of the many of the reminders, that regardless of building a working relationship up, only for it to shatter and pain fully remind us in clear terms as just being workers nothing more.
We always get framed.........
Sorry, ran out of lead,,,, mean lines
;D
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I'd go back. I'd ask him to go into his house to see the scratches for myself. Sometimes there are scratches on the inside. Sometimes, belive it or not, the scratches aren't scratches, they're silicone marks left on the glass by the installer. Most of the time the scratch is left by the installer, cleaning the glass with windowlene and a rag. Very rarely it's you.
If I were you I'd need to see for myself.
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If a customer tells me they are having new windows always tell them to check for scratches before the fitters leave ,I always check new glass downstairs before starting . Had a customer paid a fortune to Everest who chipped a wood effect door scratched a window when they replaced it they scratched that too.
Why do customers let fitters leave without cleaning off sticky labels first
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I had a customer that acused me off damaging a garage door handel until I pointed out to him before it was fitted it was leant up against a wall door handle facing wall
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you can sometimes pick grit up off ledges etc keeping in brush
This is very true, I had a customer say that I've scratched a window in the past on newly fitted windows.
I looked at the scratch and it was up and down the window the same way as I would brush the window.
So I think it is possible, especially on newly fitted windows or when building work leaves grit/sand/cement on the windows or sills.
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I don't believe it's possible to scratch glass with a WFP brush. I was trad for nearly 40 years and in all that time was never once accused of scratching glass, and yet it should be more likely using trad tools: a swab or T bar applicator could easily pick up grit - how many of you 'converts' have put your applicator down on a sill, handy wall or even the ground, then swabbed a window with it? The grit would still be in the fabric of the applicator and theoretically could be dragged across the glass and scratch it, and yet apparently it never did.
Then came the WFP brush. Firstly the bristles are nowhere near so likely to retain foreign matter, apart from flocked, they are smooth parallel filaments which have no irregularities to 'grip' foreign matter - unlike the woven fabric of the swab/applicator. Secondly the action is different - an applicator is pressed vigorously against the glass by direct hand pressure but cleaning with a remote brush entails a much more gentle scrubbing action assisted by constant lubrication from the jets which also continuously washes contamination out of the bristles.
I am quite sure that 99% of cases of WFP 'scratching' glass is actually pre-existing scratches being exposed by the brush removing soiling that had disguised the scratch, and the customer giving the glass much closer scrutiny to see if the system has really cleaned the glass.
I'm so confident of this that on the very few occasions any of us have been accused of causing scratches, I have invited the customer to try to scratch a window with one of our brushes on the promise that if they succeed we will replace the glass we have been accused of scratching, together with the glass the customer has succeeded in scratching.
To date we have only ever had one customer accept the challenge, and that one failed to make the slightest mark on the glass.
They still cancel ;D but at least if they try to tell anyone else it was because we scratched their glass we can demonstrate they were unable (or unwilling) to prove we were responsible.
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I don't believe it's possible to scratch glass with a WFP brush. I was trad for nearly 40 years and in all that time was never once accused of scratching glass, and yet it should be more likely using trad tools: a swab or T bar applicator could easily pick up grit - how many of you 'converts' have put your applicator down on a sill, handy wall or even the ground, then swabbed a window with it? The grit would still be in the fabric of the applicator and theoretically could be dragged across the glass and scratch it, and yet apparently it never did.
Then came the WFP brush. Firstly the bristles are nowhere near so likely to retain foreign matter, apart from flocked, they are smooth parallel filaments which have no irregularities to 'grip' foreign matter - unlike the woven fabric of the swab/applicator. Secondly the action is different - an applicator is pressed vigorously against the glass by direct hand pressure but cleaning with a remote brush entails a much more gentle scrubbing action assisted by constant lubrication from the jets which also continuously washes contamination out of the bristles.
I am quite sure that 99% of cases of WFP 'scratching' glass is actually pre-existing scratches being exposed by the brush removing soiling that had disguised the scratch, and the customer giving the glass much closer scrutiny to see if the system has really cleaned the glass.
I'm so confident of this that on the very few occasions any of us have been accused of causing scratches, I have invited the customer to try to scratch a window with one of our brushes on the promise that if they succeed we will replace the glass we have been accused of scratching, together with the glass the customer has succeeded in scratching.
To date we have only ever had one customer accept the challenge, and that one failed to make the slightest mark on the glass.
They still cancel ;D but at least if they try to tell anyone else it was because we scratched their glass we can demonstrate they were unable (or unwilling) to prove we were responsible.
I like that approch and will bank that one if I ever get accused of scratching glass ;D
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If I ever come across new fitted Windows to an existing hous I always have a walk round and point any flaws out to the customer first,as said some are scratched when fitted and the fitters always try and blame the WCleaner.
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If I ever come across new fitted Windows to an existing hous I always have a walk round and point any flaws out to the customer first,as said some are scratched when fitted and the fitters always try and blame the WCleaner.
Ditto as I've come accross quite a few and some have said when mentioning the damage they already know the scratches are there.
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I had a lady accuse me of the same, I didnt deny it immediately I asked to have a look. So I went indoors and quite clearly there were scratches on the glass running along the edges. Looked like a scraper had done it.
Without launching right into denial, I said oh dear we'd better check the rest of the windows so she said okay I'll check this side and you check the other.
There weren't any other scratches on the windows, so that was a relief. I then reasoned with her and got her to see that if my brush had scratched the window I'd expect to see it on the other windows too. She agreed, and I said let's just go back and look at the original window. OK she said. I then made a suggestion if you stay here, I'm just going to clean this window again can you watch the direction of the bristles, yes she said.
So I went outside did the clean, and went back in, when I saw her she had a massive smile over her face, she said no no its not your brush, the scratches dont even follow the same sweeping pattern and look far too deep for a bristle, also they splay out slightly when you did it so don't worry it's obviously something that was already there.
I suggested it could of been a builder or decorator trying to scrape cement or paint off the glass cos that looks more like a scraper to me. She then said that there were builders working on the front of the house September last year (it was January)
So I said if it's still something you'd like to persue, I'll do my best to comply with your insurance company in any statements, she said no nono don't worry Marc it's fine. But I insisted and I still have the customer today that was 4 years ago and heard nothing since, very nice lady now more so than before.
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i had one who said i had scratched the glass,it was all round the window 3mm in, the frames were wood and varnished,i asked her if her husband had painted them,which he had,then told her it was him when he sandpapered the wood that why it was even all the way round,she was ok and i still clean it
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I had one years ago when my brother worked with me. One of the windows that he had cleaned had allegedly been scratched by him.
I couldn't see any scratches, so asked to have a look from the inside. There was a small mark, so I offered to clean the window again which I did.
I then asked the customer to re-check the window for any marks. He couldn't find any and I looked again for myself and asked if he was now happy. As the glass was immaculate, what could he say? I can only think it may have been a small line left by a squeegee direction change or a tiny residue of bird poo.
John
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I'm so confident of this that on the very few occasions any of us have been accused of causing scratches, I have invited the customer to try to scratch a window with one of our brushes on the promise that if they succeed we will replace the glass we have been accused of scratching, together with the glass the customer has succeeded in scratching.
I used exactly this same approach when I first switched to wfp. Was having a real tough time convincing an older customer I couldn't possibly have caused the scratch on her new kitchen window. Then hit upon this exact idea. Implemented it very politely. She immediately backed down with regard to my tools and tried to say I'd done it with my wedding ring. I'm not sure how my ring was supposed to have come in contact with the window. She was rude about it and I lost the customer. But I wasn't about to pay for a new window to replace one I hadn't scratched just to keep an £8 customer.
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you dont often get these problems with trad
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If I ever come across new fitted Windows to an existing hous I always have a walk round and point any flaws out to the customer first,as said some are scratched when fitted and the fitters always try and blame the WCleaner.
The problem with that is that if the customer then notices a scratch you missed when doing the inspection, they could then say when noticing the same scratch previously not noticed, and at a later date, that you caused it when window cleaning.
Then it's back to square one with the customer saying you scratched the glass but this time they have your inspection to prove it wasn't there before hand.
For some reason I don't quite understand, most scratches on glass tend to get noticed more in late Oct and Nov, and then again in late Feb and March.
Angle of the sun maybe?
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You probably haven't scratched it, but it's not unheard of.
I've managed it somehow in the past with grit.
And over conservatories, with the brush plastic catching the glass due to the angle...
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you dont often get these problems with trad
I seen loads of damaged glass and when pointed out to the customer they often say "Oh yes that was the last window cleaner that caused those" So my reply is "Great so your not going to blame me then... Please kindly sign this scratch glass waiver before I start." Some have actually been trad cleaners previously too ;D
Don't tell me you have never scratched glass using a scraper or accidently hit the glass with the end of your metal squeegee channel before. I know I have in the past. Oops! ::)roll
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The only thing I've ever knowingly scratched glass with was a rusty scraper blade, as iron oxide is harder than glass (a quality stainless steel bladed scraper should not be able to scratch glass), grit on my tools where I've dropped them on the floor and not checked them properly before using them again or cement has been stuck on the glass and I've not noticed it and taken appropriate action, and my ladders when the upper protectors wore through and I was too lazy to replace them. I lifted the extension part too high on one occasion and dropped them on a bathroom window. Made an awful mark that fortunately for me the customer never seemed to notice. It was there for years (10+) until the customers moved and the new people replaced the windows. I used to cringe every time I cleaned it.
Most of the materials professional trad tools are made of should not be able to scratch glass. Brass, stainless steel, plastic, rubber etc. However, aluminium, as noted above will mark glass badly if it comes into contact with it.
When trad I succeeded in scratching upvc frames a few times with the metal edges of my squeegees when the rubber moved in the channel exposing the end. Nothing major and no complaints from customers, but I knew I'd done it.
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well you can scratch glass with wfp I know ive done it on my own new windows they had been in a few months before I cleaned them they wernt scratched by fitters I had checked. it was the wife that pointed it out to say she was not impressed is an understatment
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well you can scratch glass with wfp I know ive done it on my own new windows they had been in a few months before I cleaned them they wernt scratched by fitters I had checked. it was the wife that pointed it out to say she was not impressed is an understatment
Think you will probably find the scratches were already there but you both never noticed them before.
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well you can scratch glass with wfp I know ive done it on my own new windows they had been in a few months before I cleaned them they wernt scratched by fitters I had checked. it was the wife that pointed it out to say she was not impressed is an understatment
Do you know How? Was it grit or something under the brush?
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I did the house top to bottom doors the lot I think it must have been the door sill when ive wiped the sill picked up the grit .should have know better and done ??? the doors last
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Must admit some door sills get pretty bad. When I come across really bad ones I tend to wipe them with a cloth for fear of getting grit in the brush.
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Must admit some door sills get pretty bad. When I come across really bad ones I tend to wipe them with a cloth for fear of getting grit in the brush.
or you could just run your hand through the brush with the water flowing a couple of times.i do this a lot every day and its the main reason i dont use flocked brushes very often(unless leaded windows)as they hold on to more dirt.