Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Woody123 on February 24, 2016, 10:51:52 am
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Hi all
I live on the south coast, thinking about a change of lifestyle. Work in a office 9 to 5 at the moment
Thinking about becoming a window cleaner. Seen some franchise on line and a few vans ( wfp) on gumtree and eBay
Im reasonably fit and don't mind hard work
What's a reasonable amount I could earn. Should I door knock of leaflet etc
Which system is best money/usability.
Woody
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General advice that will result in answers to your questions:
Get a notebook. Read through fifty pages of posts on here and make a list of who posts sense. Go back into the past to find good posters. Ian Lancaster might be a good start, though he doesn't post too much now. Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read the lot. Note what they do and take the best of their ideas. However, don't be afraid to improve what they are doing if you are sure you know better - that's how people beat the opposition. Ignore any posts that look like they are just a whinge. (Not just when you start, keep up the habit - people who whine about weather and van problems on here just sap your willpower).
Don't underprice; you'll regret it later and resent doing the underpriced jobs. If you're in a part of the country where people have cash, charge more; they'll pay it. Customers you gain in winter will stick with you like glue.
Leaflet and canvass together. Work out what frequencies you're going to offer and stick to them. Decide now how you're going to get round your customers and how you'll add new ones (much easier than reorganising later).
Surround yourself with optimists.
Expect to work twice as hard for everything than you initially expect.
When you start cleaning, make sure you're eating enough. It's hard work at the start and when you're low on fuel, your morale will drop. Keep well fuelled by eating and drinking enough.
Finally, the simple bit. If you keep on turning up and you keep on getting their windows clean, you'll not lose many customers and they'll recommend you to everyone they meet.
Vin
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well said vin at the moment I'm trying to keep my self motivated at the moment with this bad weather we are having at the moment
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Excellent advice vin 👍 Defo agree with the underprice bit, to find out how much people charge in your area, maybe get your parents or friends ( if they live close to you) to get a few quotes from a few window cleaners in your area , then you'll know where to start
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Cheers all
All advise is good
I've looked a Harvard franchise 7:5k any one looked at this.
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Where are you on the south coast
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Woody, are you in Bournemouth by any chance?
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Cheers all
All advise is good
I've looked a Harvard franchise 7:5k any one looked at this.
So its not 7.5K; its £10k. Your deposit for a van is £2.5K.
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Yes
They insist on a lease transit Connect and take 1% of all work
They run websit and leaflet etc
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Yes
They insist on a lease transit Connect and take 1% of all work
They run websit and leaflet etc
1%? It will cost them more a month to run a computer system to keep track of your monthly work. You mean 9% of sales. (I've looked more closely at the details.) That's before any expenses.
So whilst the £1000 income from month one sounds good, is it?
Lets use the £1000 figure. You now need to remove their 9% monthly fee. That leaves you will £910.00.
I don't know what the lease figures are as it will depend on mileage, maintenance or non maintained lease etc. but I would guess at around £175 per month + VAT = £210.00
That leaves you with = £700.00
Now you need to consider the day to day running expenses. We do very limited mileage and I use a tank of diesel a month. Then there is liability insurance as well as van insurance.
Diesel = £45.00
Liability Insurance = £16.00 per month.
Van insurance = depending on drivers age and previous claim history = £40.00 per month (might be a bit less.)
If you are on a meter = 16000 liters at £6 a cu meter could cost you £95.00 (Someone on the forums said water was £6 per cm, but as I'm not on a meter I don't know if this is correct.)
Mobile phone costs, etc still to be added.
That leaves you less than half what you started with.
We calculated that our monthly expenses represent 40% of our turnover, and that excludes what we earn - that's just running costs. I don't have a lease vehicle.
You need to have a lot more than k10 in the bank to get yourself started as you will have to survive for many months by supplementing living expenses from your saving.
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Yes
They insist on a lease transit Connect and take 1% of all work
They run websit and leaflet etc
1%? It will cost them more a month to run a computer system to keep track of your monthly work. You mean 9% of sales. (I've looked more closely at the details.) That's before any expenses.
So whilst the £1000 income from month one sounds good, is it?
Lets use the £1000 figure. You now need to remove their 9% monthly fee. That leaves you will £910.00.
I don't know what the lease figures are as it will depend on mileage, maintenance or non maintained lease etc. but I would guess at around £175 per month + VAT = £210.00
That leaves you with = £700.00
Now you need to consider the day to day running expenses. We do very limited mileage and I use a tank of diesel a month. Then there is liability insurance as well as van insurance.
Diesel = £45.00
Liability Insurance = £16.00 per month.
Van insurance = depending on drivers age and previous claim history = £40.00 per month (might be a bit less.)
If you are on a meter = 16000 liters at £6 a cu meter could cost you £95.00 (Someone on the forums said water was £6 per cm, but as I'm not on a meter I don't know if this is correct.)
Mobile phone costs, etc still to be added.
That leaves you less than half what you started with.
We calculated that our monthly expenses represent 40% of our turnover, and that excludes what we earn - that's just running costs. I don't have a lease vehicle.
You need to have a lot more than k10 in the bank to get yourself started as you will have to survive for many months by supplementing living expenses from your saving.
Good reply Spruce.
I believe they are working to be a national franchise, which will probably mean very little input from them as they will always be looking for the next franchisee and getting in any sort of work. Also thats quite a low percentage, so it seems a bit like a stack 'em high sell 'em cheap philosophy.
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If you can afford 10K to pay a franchiser you can use the 10K to go it alone.
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Yes dont waste your money on a franchise. Use the 10k and go at your own pace. Canvass up your own work or even pay a canvasser to do it for you, for 10k you could get 3k of work from a canvasser costing 6k leaving 4k for a 2nd hand van and wfp system then away you go... Then it will be 100% your own business that you can take pride in and fill your own pocket and not someone else's.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do.
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Agree with all above
Don't have a mortgage now and just under 50 so it's more of a lifestyle choice,
So I'm thinking it will be on my own £1600 a month is the fig I have in mind, seen a few vans with systems fitted, so it could be time to face the music
650lts is the size I'm looking for, heated or not ? but will be on here every minute asking stupid questions
Sorry in advance
:-)
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Welcome.
What is your line of work at the moment?
Another possibility if you need to or just wish to is to get a part time "grunt job" like a postie or delivery driver or what have you for a few months while you build up your round.
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All i will say is if you are starting from scratch and canvassing and leafletting be prepared for a long painfull road. Not only do you have to pick up the customers but you have to sort the messers and non payers as you go which sometimes can drive you to the edge of a cliff. Be prepared to work your arse offf for little return to begin with. You only need 2 things to succeed, the 1st is a plan the second is a relentless determination.
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Not meaning to drag it up again but tonight I had a chat with a windy who used to franchise his work out around 10 years ago,I had a chat with him for an hour or so and the story he told me about this industry and franchising was enough to make you go pale. He got well and truly screwed he explained you are never in control the art is in making them think your watching what's going on and that you know what's going on,the reality is he put it was that once you franchise out a certain amount of work after a certain time you don't have a clue what's happening in the end he said he just hoped they kept paying him each month.
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Go on your own.
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Another possibility if you need to or just wish to is to get a part time "grunt job" like a postie or delivery driver or what have you for a few months while you build up your round.
All i will say is if you are starting from scratch and canvassing and leafletting be prepared for a long painfull road. Not only do you have to pick up the customers but you have to sort the messers and non payers as you go which sometimes can drive you to the edge of a cliff. Be prepared to work your arse offf for little return to begin with. You only need 2 things to succeed, the 1st is a plan the second is a relentless determination.
I agree with the above. I have a PAYE job 3 days per week in addition to window cleaning - which I started roughly a year ago- and am slowly building up a decent customer base but it takes time... I have dropped 25-30% of customers in the past year - non-payers, messers, I don't want the windows cleaned this time etc...
However having worked in an office for 22+ years window cleaning is quite a refreshing change - but you will feel the aches after a days work so make sure you get a decent pole. I started with a Pure Freedom trolley system and have now graduated to a 350L van mounted system that I fixed up myself. Personally I'd suggest you don't worry about hot water (unless you purchase a van with it already fitted).
Anyway you've come to the right place. Plenty of good advice & helpful people on here ...
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Sales Amin planning 50k plus with car
But hate it
Looked at this but 2003 I think they had gearbox problems before 2007, system looks nice
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1456356234_image.png)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1456356234_image.png)
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The very best of business advice and for free.
Sorry, I don't think that is how it should work.
It's a bit different if you are already doing the job but to come on here and get all the info of how to start from scratch? Is that a good idea? Is it a 'good business model' to give a potential competitor all of your knowledge, just for the asking?
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Giving up a £50k job with a car and some status to become a window cleaner with no status, no customers and dozens of competitors? It doesn't sound like a great plan to me.
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AS above I only started this job when I was made redundant and it took 6 months to get busy . Guessing you have a nice lifestyle could you cut it down to just buying food and just paying bills if you lucky for however long it takes to build a business .
Have you ever tried cleaning windows looks easy watching someone else doing it but doing it yourself for a lving is very different .
Having said that I wouldn't go back to working for someone else .
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The very best of business advice and for free.
Sorry, I don't think that is how it should work.
It's a bit different if you are already doing the job but to come on here and get all the info of how to start from scratch? Is that a good idea? Is it a 'good business model' to give a potential competitor all of your knowledge, just for the asking?
Nice one could not have put it better myself tell them sweet FA asking how to start from scratch cheek of it let them find out for there selves if they are serious about doing it build it from scratch of your there own backs in to a lucrative and successful business then i will give you the admiration and credit they truly deserve . The admin on some of these forums need to take it in hand seems to me any one can become a member on these forums should be a closed shop only available to the pros who can prove there involvement in the industry via insurance,business banking registered company etc
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The very best of business advice and for free.
Sorry, I don't think that is how it should work.
It's a bit different if you are already doing the job but to come on here and get all the info of how to start from scratch? Is that a good idea? Is it a 'good business model' to give a potential competitor all of your knowledge, just for the asking?
It's already on here. Anyone who's going to succeed surely has the tenacity to plod through back posts on here; every single question that could be asked has been. I don't think anyone's planning to answer the question with a complete "how to run your business" post but it's all out there. If someone's prepared to read it, sift out the junk and do it then all power to their elbow. Anyone who can't be bothered to read back deserves everything they get.
Sales Amin planning 50k plus with car
But hate it
But on the same lines of researching every detail, I'd not be even thinking of looking at vehicles now except briefly to include them in a proper plan for how much I was going to be spending.
That's a detail though. The elephant in the room is what you're earning.
From experience, I can tell you that leaving a job paying £50K is fraught with danger. Your spending will be based on that level of income and you'll need enough reserves to get through a great deal of savings while you grow the business. No matter what anyone says about how quickly you can build a round it takes a lot of time. I'd suggest that if you plan how long you think it'll take to grow, double it and you'll be on the right track. If you can fiercely cut your outgoings it will help but you need to be prepared for a big drop in your standard of living.
The franchise offer you've found doesn't offer to find you customers bar a small starting pool (after that they seem to offer you help in marketing only) - you'll be responsible for growing your business. I'm not going to comment further than that.
However, as I've outlined, the big, big problem you have is that £50k + Car (£55k) is a hell of a jump to make. Think carefully.
Vin
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The very best of business advice and for free.
Sorry, I don't think that is how it should work.
It's a bit different if you are already doing the job but to come on here and get all the info of how to start from scratch? Is that a good idea? Is it a 'good business model' to give a potential competitor all of your knowledge, just for the asking?
It's already on here. Anyone who's going to succeed surely has the tenacity to plod through back posts on here; every single question that could be asked has been. I don't think anyone's planning to answer the question with a complete "how to run your business" post but it's all out there. If someone's prepared to read it, sift out the junk and do it then all power to their elbow. Anyone who can't be bothered to read back deserves everything they get.
Sales Amin planning 50k plus with car
But hate it
But on the same lines of researching every detail, I'd not be even thinking of looking at vehicles now except briefly to include them in a proper plan for how much I was going to be spending.
That's a detail though. The elephant in the room is what you're earning.
From experience, I can tell you that leaving a job paying £50K is fraught with danger. Your spending will be based on that level of income and you'll need enough reserves to get through a great deal of savings while you grow the business. No matter what anyone says about how quickly you can build a round it takes a lot of time. I'd suggest that if you plan how long you think it'll take to grow, double it and you'll be on the right track. If you can fiercely cut your outgoings it will help but you need to be prepared for a big drop in your standard of living.
The franchise offer you've found doesn't offer to find you customers bar a small starting pool (after that they seem to offer you help in marketing only) - you'll be responsible for growing your business. I'm not going to comment further than that.
However, as I've outlined, the big, big problem you have is that £50k + Car (£55k) is a hell of a jump to make. Think carefully.
Vin
To achieve £50k income and car will require £70k turnover. That's a 4-5 year task and even then it will be back breaking work at £70k turnover levels. You could employ, but then you need £100k turnover or thereabouts to achieve your £50k.
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Wow
Some anger in here, advise was asked for, if you give it or don't it's your choice, I won't be offended
Also I'm not looking for the abc golden ticket, I get you guys are worried about compotistion etc so I do understand the F all post which is fine,
I was more after a general understanding of systems poles and vehicles etc
I'm not after your money, but life is to short to worry,
Ref my job I know what I'm doing wife works, got a few rental flats we make a living off,
It's a lifestyle change £1600 a month is my target,
Ps you could also give me bad advice if you feel so angry at my post
Thanks all
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Woody you need a thick skin!
If you're put off already by peoples' comments (and there are some very good ones on this thread) then perhaps window cleaning is not for you. I don't wish to add to any negative feelings you may have, but if you are considering the Bournemouth or Poole areas, then you should know that there are lots of window cleaners out there. It certainly doesn't make it impossible, but you will have to work a bit harder. Something else to add to your SWOT analysis.
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Trust me I'm not worried
:-)
Skin is very thick
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The last 2 posts of Vin and 8weekly make a lot of sense.
I haven't seen an angry post tbh Woody. We see so many want to start w/c because they see it as an easy way out.
I started at 52 and I've found that in this business age starts to work against you as each year passes. I was 'forced' into it.
Its easy to get drawn into 'being my own boss' syndrome. So you have to have the right perspective on your future. The general idea is that the young do the work and the old manage them. Unless you are extremely fit you will not be able to do the same amount of work in 10 years time. If you plan this as a wind down to retirement where you will need a small monthly income to supplement your pension then it may work for you. (I wrote this before your last post.)
As Vin says, expect to have to work twice as hard as everyone else. Start to clean windows on a Saturday (or your day off). Start small and build the business up. But if you expect a better paying job than you have now, then you need to reconsider. Sometimes its easy to let the negatives of your current situation take the limelight. Maybe time for a reappraisal of your current position and dwell on the positives of your situation.
Yes, you are sat in an office all day, but each day you have an income. If we don't work a day due to bad weather or health issues, then there is no money coming in that day. When we are outside freezing cold, you are inside nice and warm.
I wish you the best regarding your future decisions.
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Wow
Some anger in here, advise was asked for, if you give it or don't it's your choice, I won't be offended
Also I'm not looking for the abc golden ticket, I get you guys are worried about compotistion etc so I do understand the F all post which is fine,
I was more after a general understanding of systems poles and vehicles etc
I'm not after your money, but life is to short to worry,
Ref my job I know what I'm doing wife works, got a few rental flats we make a living off,
It's a lifestyle change £1600 a month is my target,
Ps you could also give me bad advice if you feel so angry at my post
Thanks all
No anger from me.
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Surround yourself with optimists and eat enough. Cripes.
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Listen to all the whingers, whiners and knockers on here and struggle through the day without eating wondering why you're knackered and hating the job.
Vin
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Spruce -
He never said he wants a better paying job than he has now , he wants to earn £1600 per month for a lifestyle change .
Fair play to him , he won't need a huge amount of customers for that.
I think he could do worse than going with a franchise like Vins , don't know if anyone is doing that in bournemouth/poole though .
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I hadnt a clue about the wfp game before i started, i got completely set up with van and equitment and had change out of £1500, yes i bought secondhand stuff but it worked perfectly, then just practiced until i got it right which isnt very long tbh then out and started earning, no way would i be paying 10k for a franchise that crazy imo, its a simple business really just takes time and patience to build it up from scratch, in regards equipment figure out what you have to spend then buy the best you can, theres always good bargains on ebay and the likes, i only recently bought a complete full 2 man system for peanuts, some lad spent big enough money on it with flashy new van to only realise it wasnt for him, go down this route and if it isnt for you then ya havent wasted a small fortune, better than being out over 10K and locked into a franchise agreement imo
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Did you remember to eat though?
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Spruce -
He never said he wants a better paying job than he has now , he wants to earn £1600 per month for a lifestyle change .
Fair play to him , he won't need a huge amount of customers for that.
I think he could do worse than going with a franchise like Vins , don't know if anyone is doing that in bournemouth/poole though .
We are in Bournemouth now but not looking for more franchisees until 2018 so we're not really suitable. Also, if someone's looking for an income like £1,600 and has time and backup income to cover him through growing, I suspect he'd be better off on his own and keeping the lot.
Vin
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It will take years not months and that is the reality of your situation,my advise would be to look around the area your thinking of working and consider buying a round of work. Work it with them for 3-4 months if they are selling a good lot of work they will do this if your serious,it will be the quickest way to get you an income.
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Alot of the advice on this thread is actually good advice woody. No one seems to be angry or even having a pop.
Its commendable that your looking for a life style change at the age you are (respectfully saying so).
Yes many feel it is an easy game to get into and sadly that lets them down. In the respect that they do a poor job of the work and think that, that will do attitude. (Again, not dirdcting this at you,) im no where near your area, but ive been at this game over 14yrs alot on here a whole lot more. Weve seen competition come n competition go. So again, thats not really the issue so dont take the advice defensively.
Research it well, theres plenty of helpful and non helpful videos on youtube and as you research you will soon tell the difference between the good and bad advice. Ive recently transition onto the wfp, just less than a yr ago and its been a new learning curve for me and still is. But I have the consumer base already.
Equipment wise; why choose a huge tank as youve posted. Are you wanting commercial (which is normally cut throat business) or residential?? One man team or more?? As the size tank ur refering too, will be too large to begin with. You ideally need a larger tank for storage n production of pure water than the one your going to work from, in the van.
I wouldn't mess around with a trolley system as most upgrade to full van systemevenyually. Dont go fibreglass or hybrid go straight for carbon poles.
The best advice is research, research n gain some experience first. Do you kno anyone you could work with for a couple of days. Gain some experience and knowledge that way first before jumping in with two feet.
Again, just advice....dont be defensive..
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It can be done, but as has already been said, it takes planning and a lot of determination.
In my experience, the quickest way to build a run is to go out and knock as many doors as you can. This can be done either in the evenings when people are more likely to be home, or during the daytime with equipment at the ready for your first customer. If you do it the latter way (as I did), you are earning straight away and already advertising yourself to the neighbours.
Having said that, it has taken me 4 years this time round to build up a decent enough run to be making a reasonable living (I am in this game 19 years now, and relocated to Ireland 4 years ago for family reasons and started up again from scratch).
If I can do it, then most people can, but there will be setbacks on the way (messers, non-payers and bad weather can all be demotivating if you allow these things to affect you) and window cleaning is hard work.
I wish you all the very best and look forward to hearing how you are getting on.
John
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Took me about three months of part time cleaning before I made the leap to full time. 1600 a month is easily achievable. However, the most important figure is not your turnover but your net profit. Some post every day on here of their daily turnover but forget to mention their net profit and tax.
Maybe I've been lucky but I'm always swamped with work, have been for eight years now, bursting at the seams. Loads of vans about now in my area, whether I could do it again - who knows?
Give it a go but have a plan B in place - just incase it all goes tits up.
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Or....... you could spend the next two years reading back posts on here while trying to decipher who's who! ;D
If you're in Southampton speak to Vain prefect- he's the main man round there- prefect windows or something? You might even get a credit on the next "thank you" seminar! ;D
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In addition, research your price. Dont make the mistake of going in with a low price either. You will no longer be the customer but the tradesman. By that, the customers mind set is mostly that they pay too much for just having windows on their house washed, regardless what they are charged. Also a good rule, dont undercut just to get a job or to get your foot in so to speak. As long term you will regret it. You have your target income after tax in mind, so work backwards...what do you want to earn per hour/per day. Tax, travel costs, complications of windows/obstructions etc etc to be taken into account when determining your price and stick to it.
Hope this helps n again all the best