Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DB Cleaning Services on February 22, 2016, 06:56:47 pm
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As above, I've just put a 600ltr ibc tank in ,it needs to be baffled,
Water is swishing about making me feel sea sick plus it's not safe,
Any ideas ? ,thanks dale
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Baffle balls:
http://www.tanks-direct.co.uk/tank_accessories/small_baffle_ball_%28packs_of_10%29?gclid=CjwKEAiAgKu2BRDu1OGw3-KXokwSJAB_Yy2Q_43VxH__T5PPR-nkOwQHf72pCAu0wuqquaZA-i-zDBoCgi_w_wcB
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Buy about 20 meters of irrigation pipe 80mm diameter, it's perforated so allows water through it but stops the slosh
Darran
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How do you baffle a water tank?
Lean four shovels against a wall and ask it to take its pick.
Vin
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Buy about 20 meters of irrigation pipe 80mm diameter, it's perforated so allows water through it but stops the slosh
Darran
beat me to it ;) +1
http://www.tanks-direct.co.uk/tank_accessories/small_baffle_ball_%28packs_of_10%29?gclid=CjwKEAiAgKu2BRDu1OGw3-KXokwSJAB_Yy2Q_43VxH__T5PPR-nkOwQHf72pCAu0wuqquaZA-i-zDBoCgi_w_wcB
these will be really expensive way to baffle a 600 L tank
as smudger said buy this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80mm-3-Land-Drain-x-25m-mtr-Metres-Tree-Planting-Perforated-Drainage-Coil-Pipe-/180711853363?hash=item2a13440d33:g:y0MAAOSwcwhVJlZs
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Cheers lads, that sounds a lot better £35, what size pieces do you cut it to ?
Or do you put it in as one length cheers
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How do you baffle a water tank?
Lean four shovels against a wall and ask it to take its pick.
Vin
;D
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Would cost about £325 to Baffle ball that size ibc Cookie :o
At that sort of cost you could have a custom size baffle tank built surely?
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Baffle balls don't fit through the inlet ;)
Done both - 1 long length and loads of bits cut to 2 meters both work
Darran
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Cheers :)
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Personnally I dont think you shud cut corners here and buy a baffled reinforced tank built for purpose of carrying water compared to an ibc tank which is flimsy and unsafe to transport liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose. Guessing only using straps to hold it down as well perhaps?? Plenty of insurance repercussions. .......
For you sake, I hope you dont have an accident or anyone colliding into your van either.
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compared to an ibc tank which is flimsy and unsafe to transport liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose.
;D ;D
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compared to an ibc tank which is flimsy and unsafe to transport liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose.
;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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compared to an ibc tank which is flimsy and unsafe to transport liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose.
;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
🤔
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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show it NWH's posts - that should baffle it in five minutes.
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Personnally I dont think you shud cut corners here and buy a baffled reinforced tank built for purpose of carrying water compared to an ibc tank which is flimsy and unsafe to transport liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose. Guessing only using straps to hold it down as well perhaps?? Plenty of insurance repercussions. .......
For you sake, I hope you dont have an accident or anyone colliding into your van either.
+1 ;)
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[quote auth or=nathankaye link=topic=201235.msg1768005#msg1768005 date=1456172718]
which is flimsy and unsafe to transport Liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose.
[/quote]
Do i have to spell it out to you chaps.......ibc tanks are for liquid storage not for transporting liquids in a vehicle!!!!
::)roll ::)roll ;D
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Composite IBC's are designed for storage and transportation of bulk liquids, for van use of course its better to have them baffled or even waffled ;D
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They are referred to as [ one time use ] which is why you see thousands for sale for peanuts. They are very thin plastic and are only designed to carry liquid when full.
I would not be happy to carry a ton of water in an ibc in the back of my van with a home made baffle kit.
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They are referred to as [ one time use ] which is why you see thousands for sale for peanuts. They are very thin plastic and are only designed to carry liquid when full.
I would not be happy to carry a ton of water in an ibc in the back of my van with a home made baffle kit.
Indeed
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its better to have them baffled or even waffled ;D
;D ;D
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They are referred to as [ one time use ] which is why you see thousands for sale for peanuts. They are very thin plastic and are only designed to carry liquid when full.
I would not be happy to carry a ton of water in an ibc in the back of my van with a home made baffle kit.
I've a feeling you're making this up as you go along. I've never ever seen or heard of any reference to "one time use" in relation to an IBC. Also, if you had a ton of water in an IBC it would not need baffling as its going to slosh just about no where !!!!
If a properley secured IBC is so flimsy then that can only be a good point as hopefully on impact it will disintegrate and soak the driver as opposed to a rather more substantial structure requiring substantial restraint rupturing through and causing damage.
I think flimsy tank is the way to go, i mean who'd of ever thought we'd be sticking balloons in our steering wheels. Think out the box !!! ;D
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Clean clear (keenly clear) between the ears ;D
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Clean clear (keenly clear) between the ears ;D
Ha ha !! I'm thick, you sussed me !!! ;D No baffling you eh ? ;D
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They are referred to as [ one time use ] which is why you see thousands for sale for peanuts. They are very thin plastic and are only designed to carry liquid when full.
I would not be happy to carry a ton of water in an ibc in the back of my van with a home made baffle kit.
I've a feeling you're making this up as you go along. I've never ever seen or heard of any reference to "one time use" in relation to an IBC. Also, if you had a ton of water in an IBC it would not need baffling as its going to slosh just about no where !!!!
If a properley secured IBC is so flimsy then that can only be a good point as hopefully on impact it will disintegrate and soak the driver as opposed to a rather more substantial structure requiring substantial restraint rupturing through and causing damage.
I think flimsy tank is the way to go, i mean who'd of ever thought we'd be sticking balloons in our steering wheels. Think out the box !!! ;D
So you think a thousand litres of water exploding out of a flimsy tank would just soak you through ??? one time use is a phrase used on my own research and i think wikipedia search also says it but not 100 per cent. The tank is most unstable when not full because of ullage, thats why they only transport liquids full in an ibc tank.
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The tank is most unstable when not full because of ullage, thats why they only transport liquids full in an ibc tank.
Martin, to save us going round the houses so to speak. Look again at the title of this topic ?...........................
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Yep, noted. i still would not use a self baffled ibc tank. just my opinion. I would rather pay for a much thicker baffled tank.
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Would cost about £325 to Baffle ball that size ibc Cookie :o
At that sort of cost you could have a custom size baffle tank built surely?
Yes that's very true. Perforated pipe would be considerably cheaper.
A cheaper 'ball' option might be to puncture holes in some of those children's plastic playballs. I'm sure I've seen a You Tube video on that somewhere, where they puncture the balls with a small soldering iron. One of Damo's videos I think ..... I can't locate it at the moment tho'.
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Considering how much people are prepared to pay for essentially a pole to clean a window with, it suprises me that people are prepared to use ibc's as vehicle tanks. I too suggested the irrigation pipe having used it in a wydale tank. Thankfully I now have a custom built baffled tank from Aquaeous - it cost me only a little more inc vat and delivery to that of an equivalent wydale one. It really is worth doing !
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Peoples comments are in line with the topic title.ie, forget going cheap n baffling an unsuitable tank and buy a proper baffled tank instead. I think is the general concensus
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Buy about 20 meters of irrigation pipe 80mm diameter, it's perforated so allows water through it but stops the slosh
Darran
+1
i have a 600ltr IBC tank with 25mtrs of irrigation pipe, i didn't cut it up, i just fed it all in through the lid, one big coil. been perfectly fine had in van for the last 15 months.
Yes I've seen some very thin n flimsy IBC tank,s but they must differ because mine has quite a thick wall. I have to push quite hard with my finger to make an indentation. I bought mine brand new from Kent Water Works £52
Tony
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Peoples comments are in line with the topic title.ie, forget going cheap n baffling an unsuitable tank and buy a proper baffled tank instead. I think is the general concensus
Which tank do you use ??
Darran
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Obviously a baffled tank. Mine is a 500litre from purefreedom.
I had a chap ask me other month about the tank. He was cleaning bins and had a 1000ltr ibc tank and was telling me about cornering problems when driving, never mind having to break hard (which as drivers we kno can happen quite alot), because of the wave effect. I told him same as what ive been posting on here. That hes mad!!
I just hope these chaps dont have an accident and if they feel its a good idea, im sure if traffic police were to have a look, these drivers wouldnt be too happy then! Plus as someone has said, wfp isnt a cheap game if you want to be profdssional n not cow boyish and you want the good poles etc. So if stressing about tds, which filters are best/which poles/ which RO/ which resin????? Then why not invest in the thing which stores this precious water n make driving with it safe for themselves??
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Obviously a baffled tank. Mine is a 500litre from purefreedom.
I had a chap ask me other month about the tank. He was cleaning bins and had a 1000ltr ibc tank and was telling me about cornering problems when driving, never mind having to break hard (which as drivers we kno can happen quite alot), because of the wave effect. I told him same as what ive been posting on here. That hes mad!!
I just hope these chaps dont have an accident and if they feel its a good idea, im sure if traffic police were to have a look, these drivers wouldnt be too happy then! Plus as someone has said, wfp isnt a cheap game if you want to be profdssional n not cow boyish and you want the good poles etc. So if stressing about tds, which filters are best/which poles/ which RO/ which resin????? Then why not invest in the thing which stores this precious water n make driving with it safe for themselves??
Martin, having driven Liquid Tankers for a living i can tell you there is never a time when you can make cornering or stopping quick with a liquid load safe. No. You need to adapt to what you are carrying. The above example of cornering will be solved in most cases by cornering slower. As for having to brake hard, and you know it happens a lot ? Well you should drive with that knowledge and avoid it, and if that means driving slower, or leaving a greater stopping room then so be it. Its some sort of fool that thinks he can just drive his van with a tank of water onboard in the knowledge he has a safe baffled system and thats all he needs to know.
You can't legislate for peoples brains. If they're gonna end up in a ditch then thats where they're going. Baffled tank in or no baffled tank.
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I appreciate what you are saying clean clear, but there are advantages when driving a half full tank(1000 ltrs) baffled to non baffled which were built for the purpose of driving reguarly. When you turn a corner in a non baffled tank the ullage of half a ton of water really does pull a lot more than a baffled tank as the water is smashing about everywhere. My tanks has three seperate chambers with round holes inside the tank and the water just passes through each chamber. I dont even feel it when im driving, only the weight on braking first thing in the morning. I have a 650ltr black, tucker poles baffled tank.
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Buy about 20 meters of irrigation pipe 80mm diameter, it's perforated so allows water through it but stops the slosh
Darran
+1 put 25mtrs of pipe in yesterday ,never felt a thing today,cheers lads ;) £28 well spent
i have a 600ltr IBC tank with 25mtrs of irrigation pipe, i didn't cut it up, i just fed it all in through the lid, one big coil. been perfectly fine had in van for the last 15 months.
Yes I've seen some very thin n flimsy IBC tank,s but they must differ because mine has quite a thick wall. I have to push quite hard with my finger to make an indentation. I bought mine brand new from Kent Water Works £52
Tony
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Obviously a baffled tank. Mine is a 500litre from purefreedom.
Are you referring to the wydale tank, ? Unfortunately that big slot in the middle is there for moulding and strength purposes, without it the tank would bulge out of shape and possible split, if your using the flat version of any of these then the "baffle" is useless as water can freely run from side to side or back to front.
My van had 2 of these professionally installed mounted inside a stainless steel frame by pf. - the rocking motion was terrible.
Ibc tanks are marginally thinner walled but have an intigrated frame - the newer tanks also are of a moulded groove design ( not smooth sides ) which just like the bends and angles in a car panel make it much stronger , and filled with irrigation pipe, baffle balls, flower pots you get zero water surge.
All tanks need to be secured properly, I'm sure there are more wydale "baffled" tanks badly fitted than ibc tanks,
The bespoke tank with baffles is the ultimate - low level, baffled and made to fit the van.
Darran
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Nothing wrong with a slice of humble pie.
Mine is the 500litre upright one and yes secured/caged into the van. The central split/divider serves well as the baffle splitting the load nicely n not experienced problems with it.
But as my original post, I still stand by my strong opinion that ibc tanks are not suitable for the job and if cutting cost by purchasing such a tank it would be unlikely that a person has paid for it to be caged securely. So on both aspects I view it as unsafe. For the money we spend on poles n brushes n filters n resins. Its worth spending a fraction more than an ibc tank.
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Nothing wrong with a slice of humble pie.
Mine is the 500litre upright one and yes secured/caged into the van. The central split/divider serves well as the baffle splitting the load nicely n not experienced problems with it.
But as my original post, still stand by my strong opinion that ibc tanks are not suitable for the job and if cutting cost by purchasing such a tank it wojld be unlikely that a person has paid for it to be caged securely. So on both aspects I view it as unsafe. For the money we spend on pkles n brushes n filters n resins. Its worth spending a fraction more than an ibc tank.
Your strong opinion makes me laugh. This reminds me of when I used to drive buses, sitting in the bothy listening to drivers talking absolute nonsense. Cleanclear being an experienced professional driver is right, you have to drive appropriately taking into consideration the load you are carrying. The drivers hazard perception, acceleration, deceleration, planning ahead, road conditions etc can effect the vehicle and it's load. An IBC 'intermediate bulk container' can be a number of things one of which often reffered to as a tonne bag or bulk bag which builders yards use are "single trip".
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Your strong opinion makes me laugh. This reminds me of when I used to drive buses, sitting in the bothy listening to drivers talking absolute nonsense. Cleanclear being an experienced professional driver is right, you have to drive appropriately taking into consideration the load you are carrying. The drivers hazard perception, acceleration, deceleration, planning ahead, road conditions etc can effect the vehicle and it's load. An IBC 'intermediate bulk container' can be a number of things one of which often reffered to as a tonne bag or bulk bag which builders yards use are "single trip".
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Mate im glad your amused as obviously as a bus driver in the past, perhaps listening to a story half way through and getting completely the wrong end of it. Perhaps go bk to the first post on this thread n read all comments and then realise you have just proved my point about ibc tanks And how unapropriate they are. So you are wrongly sumising that I also use an ibc tank. Oh and thank you for explaining the full name of the tank as we didnt kno that :o The comments about sensible driving is obvious and thats why no comments have been made in that reference apart from hoping people do drive sensible esp if not properly secured their water containers!! And more so if they use an unapropriate ibc tank!!
Please, your lack of the full picture makes me laugh as well. So we both walk away amused.
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My main worry with an ibc tank (the ones like i have to store water in that you can press your finger in) is that they could rupture and throw there contents out if you had to slam on, its got nothing to do with driving ,as everybody has to be cautious with their driving ,transporting large volumes of water.
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My main worry with an ibc tank (the ones like i have to store water in that you can press your finger in) is that they could rupture and throw there contents out if you had to slam on, its got nothing to do with driving ,as everybody has to be cautious with their driving ,transporting large volumes of water.
There's several problems associated with IBC's, or rather using them for how we intend to use them. But that does not mean we can't use them safely.
All IBC's are not created equal. There are some very nice alloy frames attatched to a nice alloy pallet base available, as opposed to one screwed onto some old wooden pallet. So assuming you've got a decent IBC, how to secure it ? So its safe and legal ?
Well a look at whats required by law and what DVSA (formerly VOSA) will look for might help. The load (in this case the tank or IBC) should be positioned so it is against a bulkhead, where this is not directly possible a dummy bulkead should be utilised or something to connect the load (tank) physdically to the bulkhead. So in practice that will mean bars, or a frame going across to stop the ibc from coming foreward. It should also be secured down to the load bed, so it cannot move up. A ratchet strap (or two) will legally suffice for this assuming you have got good anchorage points. If you havn't then properley securing it through a bolted bar system through the floor would suffice (aka a frame). Also the tank/load should not be able to move backwards, so more ratchets, or more incorporation of your frame.
In practice an IBC against a bulkhead and secured with ratchets or a simple bar frame system is 100% legal and importantly safe, its going no where. And before anyone tells me any old bumf about the strength of a bulkhead and so many ton of water going through it i'll just remind you that a simple bulkhead on the average artic flat trailer is responsible for restraining 20 tonnes plus. Of course if you don't put your load against the bulk head and have to brake hard and the load moves foreward it would only require a small 1 tonne load to smash your bulkhead. The loading against the bulkhead is important to stop foreward movement.
Baffling a tank is never going to remove the fact you have X amount of weight in the back, all it will do is help the vehicles handling. Of course the weight will not be being displaced this way and that way so quickly. It will remain constant, or thats the hope. And of course an IBC tank won't rupture no matter how thin you think it is.
An IBC ( a decent one) at about 60 or 70 quid and maybe £200 for a nice safe frame retention system to be fitted and you've got something far superior to one of them one size fits all pre manufactured systems for X thousand pounds. And of course if you baffle it (this topic) with some drainage tube its even better.
Next topic................Where's best to mount your RO on your van tank? Answer = In your shed !! ;D
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Well posted that man!!
The biggest problem is momentum, any solid object placed against the bulkhead in effect becomes part of the van
Darran
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Your strong opinion makes me laugh. This reminds me of when I used to drive buses, sitting in the bothy listening to drivers talking absolute nonsense. Cleanclear being an experienced professional driver is right, you have to drive appropriately taking into consideration the load you are carrying. The drivers hazard perception, acceleration, deceleration, planning ahead, road conditions etc can effect the vehicle and it's load. An IBC 'intermediate bulk container' can be a number of things one of which often reffered to as a tonne bag or bulk bag which builders yards use are "single trip".
Mate im glad your amused as obviously as a bus driver in the past, perhaps listening to a story half way through and getting completely the wrong end of it. Perhaps go bk to the first post on this thread n read all comments and then realise you have just proved my point about ibc tanks And how unapropriate they are. So you are wrongly sumising that I also use an ibc tank. Oh and thank you for explaining the full name of the tank as we didnt kno that :o The comments about sensible driving is obvious and thats why no comments have been made in that reference apart from hoping people do drive sensible esp if not properly secured their water containers!! And more so if they use an unapropriate ibc tank!!
Please, your lack of the full picture makes me laugh as well. So we both walk away amused.
[/quote]Nothing to do with half stories, it's about half-wits making things up as they go along. Strong opinions or strong body odour has absolutely nothing to do with the law or what VOSA deem to be unsafe.
"which is flimsy and unsafe to transport Liquids as it wasnt designed for such purpose. "
[/quote]
"Do i have to spell it out to you chaps.......ibc tanks are for liquid storage not for transporting liquids in a vehicle!!!!"
Your wrong!!!!!!!!!! :) ;) :D ;D
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So do you think a tank pushed up against the bulkhead . And not bolted through the floor .Is safer than a tank bolted through the floor and positioned away from the bulkhead . Barry .
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not safer, but as safe provided it was still secured, and tank size plays a factor 500 litres and smaller against bulkhead I'd be happy with straps 600 up to 1000 I'd go the extra step and bolt it in, even against the bulk head to stop any upward movement.
Darran
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You've got me thinking now . I've got a 650 tank strapped up tight to the bulkhead . But the van never goes above 30 mph and my journeys are never more than 3 miles . Usually in slow moving traffic . Never even use a dual carriageway never mind a motorway . Any thoughts cheers barry .