Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike Gillam on February 20, 2016, 10:08:12 am
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Hello, new to this site, I am desperate for any subjections. Just completed a builders clean, and have been accused of scratching all the windows. Did not have a waiver in place, my insurance does not cover the glass that you are working on, so no insurance. I know through research that the manufactures of the glass are more than likely at fault, through there cleaning process before leaving the factory. To sum it up if it all pair shaped which I expect it to. They are looking for £15- £20000 compensation. Money that I have not got. I am reaching out to you all for your help or advice. My best regards, Mike
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Hi Mike DO NOT tell them that you used a scraper of any kind tell them you used chemicals and cloths to remove silicone labels etc.
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What do you think is going on ? is there a chance you caused the damage or are they taking you for a ride to recover their
losses ?
How experienced are you ?
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Remember the Del Boy sketch when they dropped the chandelier?
Del Boy said to the customer "You've got our phone number haven't you?"
When he replied "No!"
Del Boy said "Right lads - leg it!" ;D ;D
Seriously though it could be bad - best deny all knowledge and be more careful next time.
Personally I don't touch builders cleans too many bad experiences.
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For a start do not in any shape or form infer any scratches/damage could have been caused by you. That is a case for the plaintiff loss adjuster/legal department to investigate and try prove you caused the damage in the first place so never admit anything.
Something sounds very fishy to me as other trades are very quick to try passing the blame onto the window cleaner. Did you use a scrapper at all as you sure as hell would know if you had caused any scratches or not working so close up & personal on the glass?
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My last builders clean was about 4 years ago when I too was accused of scratching some of the windows. Before I started the job I took pictures of every window in house. It's a good job I did because when I asked builder which ones were scratched he pointed to a couple that I couldn't do because of access problems! So to cut a long story short I never paid him a penny but I reckon they were already scratched when he saw me he thought ££££@s I may be a wc but I do have a brain too!
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing but taking on what I call high risk jobs like bulders cleans without a signed waiver in place nor proper insurance cover should they try it on or things goes tits up has got to be asking for trouble.
Lets hope for your sake they don't pursue a claim but if they do you will obviously need to get good legal advice which none on here can really give as are not qualified to do so.
Best of luck bud
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Lets hope for your sake they don't pursue a claim but if they do you will obviously need to get good legal advice which none on here can really give as are not qualified to do so.
Best of luck bud
Agreed. None of us are legal experts, we're just a bunch of window cleaners (you'll probably get plenty of plausible sounding advice despite that). If you're looking at a claim of possibly £20K you need solid, professional advice from a solicitor.
Vin
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My last builders clean was about 4 years ago when I too was accused of scratching some of the windows. Before I started the job I took pictures of every window in house. It's a good job I did because when I asked builder which ones were scratched he pointed to a couple that I couldn't do because of access problems! So to cut a long story short I never paid him a penny but I reckon they were already scratched when he saw me he thought ££££@s I may be a wc but I do have a brain too!
Hi Klean07, how long did that builders clean take you to complete, and did they pay you.
Regards
Lal
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Crumbs what a great bunch you all are, thanks for the reply's . My full intention is not to admit to anything, but to prove to them that the equipment that we use is to the highest standard. Yes at time we did use a scraper but only in small places, not the whole window. We firstly sprayed a concrete softener then washed the window, and then if there was anything left used a scraper to remove. through research I am totally convinced that the fault lies with the window itself, or the messy plasterers. I am getting legal advice Mon morning as part of the insurance, So if you don't mind I will keep you informed . Again, a massive thank you for your responses. my best regards,Mike
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As has been stated already, do not accept liability for the scratches (unless you did it).
I would offer to prove first hand that your cleaning methods don't scratch the glass. Offer to return to sight and demonstrate your methods in front of the hierarchy. If they refuse this, I would ignore all further attempts to contact you unless threatened with legal action. If they still pursue it, seek legal advice.
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A plasterer could only scratch the insides. We are talking outside arnt we
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This is why I never ever do them anymore it's a builders clean for the builder not the home owner,the times I used to do it and then I'd see some other cleaner doing them for the new owner around 6 months later and I'd think I got all those bit of paint and silicone off for him so he could turn up and just pole it.
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Did you keep the glass wet when using your scraper?
Did you scrape in one direction only?
Did you scrape in a forward only motion?
Did you use a new scraper blade? Did you blade towards rubber seals or alongside?
Did you notice scratches on the glass in a multitude of directions prior to and after cleaning the glass?
Did you sense if the scraper was cutting into the glass or sliding nicely across the glass removing only the cement? Do you have any before and after photos of the glass?
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i never touch them now ive done 4 builders cleans never again lol , good luck mike :)
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i was cleaning big panes of glass had cement on off builders, cleaned with scraper next time i went it was sunny and i could see scratches never touch cement on glass again ,the thing is it just seems to turn to dust and causes the scratches
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Crumbs what a great bunch you all are, thanks for the reply's . My full intention is not to admit to anything, but to prove to them that the equipment that we use is to the highest standard. Yes at time we did use a scraper but only in small places, not the whole window. We firstly sprayed a concrete softener then washed the window, and then if there was anything left used a scraper to remove. through research I am totally convinced that the fault lies with the window itself, or the messy plasterers. I am getting legal advice Mon morning as part of the insurance, So if you don't mind I will keep you informed . Again, a massive thank you for your responses. my best regards,Mike
Have they paid your invoice ?
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If you had to deal with cement on the windows then its the builders who are liable and not you. Modern building practice is to protect the glass from damage with polythene sheeting or similar. Cement alone will damage glass without any help from you, the lime burns the surface. Don't allow them to bully you into admitting liability. :-X
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Hello, new to this site, I am desperate for any subjections. Just completed a builders clean, and have been accused of scratching all the windows. Did not have a waiver in place, my insurance does not cover the glass that you are working on, so no insurance. I know through research that the manufactures of the glass are more than likely at fault, through there cleaning process before leaving the factory. To sum it up if it all pair shaped which I expect it to. They are looking for £15- £20000 compensation. Money that I have not got. I am reaching out to you all for your help or advice. My best regards, Mike
why is it going to cost £20000
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Deny any liability to anyone. Tell them you saw someone using a scourer if you do think it was you. You just did your job to your usual high standards. Your word against theirs unless they have footage of you doing it which i very much doubt.
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Just say the scratches were there before you started and you told him about them which is a lie but say it anyway.
As said above, it's your word against his.
I wouldn't worry about it. Years ago after doing a builders clean I had the same. I told the bloke to go (rude word) himself. I received a solicitors letter, all very official sounding, and ignored it. I never heard anything from them again as they know the score which is it's speculation unless they can prove that during installation, the windows didn't get a single scratch.
I never got paid though.
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Dishonesty is not the answer! Bloody hell we wonder why window cleaners have a bad reputation! 8) :P
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It happens, there's a place in Wales my chum who makes windows was telling me, where they've got to change the lot due to cleaner scratching them all.
Pretty stupid of the company not insisting on proof of insurance first before letting you loose on their property too. I expect heads will roll somewhere down the line. I'd be crapping myself to be honest. I'd imagine they would have their own insurance in place too?
Have you been back to check on them?
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Dishonesty is not the answer! Bloody hell we wonder why window cleaners have a bad reputation! 8) :P
Are you going to worry about the trades reputation when a firm's trying to sue the arse off you for 20k? Answer - Don't be daft.
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Is there a guaranteed way of removing cement from glass without causing any damage at all? I use a scraper and am extremely careful, but the outline of the cement still seems to remain on the glass.
Glazing manufacturers put tape over the frames to protect them prior to installation. I wonder why they don't do the same to the glass.
John
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Is there a guaranteed way of removing cement from glass without causing any damage at all? I use a scraper and am extremely careful, but the outline of the cement still seems to remain on the glass.
Glazing manufacturers put tape over the frames to protect them prior to installation. I wonder why they don't do the same to the glass.
John
I was wondering the same, is there some chemical that'll melt cement off instead of having to scratch it off? one of my custys had an extension built and as usual , the builders splattered cement on the windows(not much,small blobs) and I told custy I can't get it off , it's upto the builders , but if I could use something that would garauntee I don't have to get me scraper out , then I'd do it...
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Brick acid and a pressure washer, but i prefer the steer well clear method ;D
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Anyone used this? Cement dissolver
https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-351327/belle-clean.html?gclid=CJqV7PfPiMsCFdgaGwoddzoHFg
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Are you going to worry about the trades reputation when a firm's trying to sue the arse off you for 20k? Answer - Don't be daft.
What's daft telling bull about seeing someone else using a scourer on them if you know it wasn't you that caused the scratches. If there was no other cleaning contractor involved you'll make yourself look a right tool.
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Dishonesty is not the answer! Bloody hell we wonder why window cleaners have a bad reputation! 8) :P
The foreman knew exactly what he was doing. One of the painters told me afterwards that the glass was already scratched.
Dishonesty is trying to get me to pay to replace 6 large double glazed panes when they were scratched to begin with.
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Boy so many reply's, sorry just logged on. To answer some questions, £20000 to replace all the windows. scratches on the inside windows. Only used scraper with brand new blade on small parts of the window, not the whole window. Yes window was wet. We sprayed the window with a cement softener first, then got to work on the frames, after 10 mins we thoroughly washed the window squeegeed off, and then if there was any little particles left used the scraper . The fault I am convinced is with the window itself. Going down tomorrow with the company who we subbed off who are totally behind us. Will keep you all updated. Regards, Mike
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Your probably thinking that I am the last to recommend a product for removing concrete, but it worked really well its called speedy create concrete remover. Leave 10 mins and it turns to mush and can simple be washed off. That why by the way I know that it was not me that caused the damage to the windows. mike
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Are you going to worry about the trades reputation when a firm's trying to sue the arse off you for 20k? Answer - Don't be daft.
What's daft telling bull about seeing someone else using a scourer on them if you know it wasn't you that caused the scratches. If there was no other cleaning contractor involved you'll make yourself look a right tool.
Like i said..
'Deny any liability to anyone. Tell them you saw someone using a scourer if you do think it was you. You just did your job to your usual high standards. Your word against theirs unless they have footage of you doing it which i very much doubt.'
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My last builders clean was about 4 years ago when I too was accused of scratching some of the windows. Before I started the job I took pictures of every window in house. It's a good job I did because when I asked builder which ones were scratched he pointed to a couple that I couldn't do because of access problems! So to cut a long story short I never paid him a penny but I reckon they were already scratched when he saw me he thought ££££@s I may be a wc but I do have a brain too!
It took me about half a day to do one house. The guy paid me £80 then called me a few days later accusing me of scratching some of the windows!
Hi Klean07, how long did that builders clean take you to complete, and did they pay you.
Regards
Lal
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My last builders clean was about 4 years ago when I too was accused of scratching some of the windows. Before I started the job I took pictures of every window in house. It's a good job I did because when I asked builder which ones were scratched he pointed to a couple that I couldn't do because of access problems! So to cut a long story short I never paid him a penny but I reckon they were already scratched when he saw me he thought ££££@s I may be a wc but I do have a brain too!
It took me about half a day and guy gave me £80 then a few days later called me and accused me of scratching some of the windows!
Hi Klean07, how long did that builders clean take you to complete, and did they pay you.
Regards
Lal
It took me half a day and the guy gave me £80 then a few days later called me to accuse me of scratching some of the windows!
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Going down tomorrow with the company who we subbed off who are totally behind us.
Well that certainley throws a different slant on things.
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Deny all liability yes! But don't concoct a BS story that will make you look like an idiot!
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We had to stump up £5k last year as a chap I was subbing to said it "may have been me" when asked about scratches on a large amount of glass on a new build we sent him to. Unfortunately he didn't have insurance like we thought he did, and our insurance through gleaming didn't cover as we couldn't prove he was an employee and we didn't want to lie about it. The £5k was for the scratches to be polished out of the glass by a specialist company. To replace the glass the quotes were coming out at about £20k.
The problem lay with the glass being toughened funnily enough. Very susceptible to scratching as it is softer in nature. Ironic.
Anyway, they have to prove it was you. which is very difficult for them, so unless you did it and are honest, you will be ok.
Tim
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Anyone used this? Cement dissolver
https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-351327/belle-clean.html?gclid=CJqV7PfPiMsCFdgaGwoddzoHFg
Yep i use that.
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Deny all liability yes! But don't concoct a BS story that will make you look like an idiot!
Why should the OP be worried about 'looking an idiot' when the client is apparently trying to pass the blame to him? ???
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Just to update you, an email was sent today by the company that we are subbing off totally denying any responsibility and offering to show our method of cleaning to prove that it was not us. The reply? there was none, and they did not invite us to attend a meeting. The company that we are subbing off feel that they are trying it on. well, we shall see. At least I will get a bit of sleep tonight. Will keep you informed. Mike
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I think in fairness its a known fact that scraping glass with any type of metal blade and no matter which direction it is used whether wet or dry has the potential to leave some scratch marks, its safer all round if you explain to your customer or to the contractor that scratches will be unavoidable if their windows will require the use of a metal scraper. Just come across genuine explain the potential outcome and have them to sign a waiver and you have all angles covered.
You must also take into consideration that glass manufacturers will always recommend that metal blade scrapers should never be used on any type of glass.
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Why should the OP be worried about 'looking an idiot' when the client is apparently trying to pass the blame to him? ???
Let's just assume it went to court ::)roll
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Why should the OP be worried about 'looking an idiot' when the client is apparently trying to pass the blame to him? ???
Let's just assume it went to court ::)roll
It still doesn't explain why he would 'look an idiot' especially to a court where they hearing circumstantial statements. Maybe you meant 'look guilty' which wouldn't be the case either.
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Update, Still not heard a thing.
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Update, Still not heard a thing.
The Bill, have you been paid? Thats most important.