Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Perfect Windows on February 11, 2016, 04:45:23 pm
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
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Respect 8)
How many vans do you have out?
T
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Five. Four franchisees plus me with a much reduced round. Target is to get two franchisees within spitting distance of the VAT limit this year.
Vin
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Which one of them is cleaning the £32.00 ;D
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Same old, same old.............. must get a YAWN emoji...... ::)roll as predictable as ever!! ;D ;D LOL
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This time next year Rodney we will be millionaires ;D
I still think admin should make you pay for advertising all the same ::)roll
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Same old, same old.............. must get a YAWN emoji...... ::)roll as predictable as ever!! ;D ;D LOL
lol
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Same old, same old.............. must get a YAWN emoji...... ::)roll as predictable as ever!! ;D ;D LOL
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
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Well done Vin!
In such a short space of time, that's a great achievement 👍
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Which one of them is cleaning the £32.00 ;D
Well, since I have handed over the lion's share of my work and kept the underpriced tripe, it'll be me. I do have a piddling flat that's £8 twelve-weekly so that'll be the one.
Vin
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Well done Vin!
In such a short space of time, that's a great achievement
+1
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I've had to employ security, people are just so determined to throw their money at me it's getting ridiculous!!
lol
Same old, same old.............. must get a YAWN emoji...... ::)roll as predictable as ever!! ;D ;D LOL
lol
Something going on between you that we should know about?
Vin
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Yeah, we can spot K n o b s a mile off!! ;D
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Well done Vin is there any good work within that £250,000 worth lol 💩💩💩💩
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There are a great number of people on here who I thank for your helpful advice and support over the past few years. Some small things, some big, but all the cause of one improvement or other in how we work.
We do very few things the way I did on the day I started and much of it came from people on here who were willing to give time and effort to help me out many a time. So many helpful people. Thank you all.
Special thanks, as ever, to Franky for the day out when he showed me the ropes; without that I'd probably never have started. And to Lee Pryor for an astounding amount of help and support.
Vin
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It's ok Vin you don't need to thank me lol.
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Well done Vin is there any good work within that £250,000 worth lol 💩💩💩💩
It doesn't matter if there is or isn't, the combined turnover is there and if Vin takes 20% thats £50k without him doing any of the work.
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And for the people on here whose sole purpose in life seems to be to snipe, discourage and insult, thank you for your inestimable comedy value. You make me laugh with every post. Not with you, at you.
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Yeah, we can spot K n o b s a mile off!! ;D
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in him getting 50k out of that lot,250ks worth of work is a lot of work to get. If I was told I would be on a grand a week for my efforts I would stay on my pole,fair play to you Vin for doing what you've done.
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
Thats good work Vin. Just shows what can be achieved.
A question for you, when your royalty turnover reaches the VAT threshold will you charge your royalty plus VAT to your franchisee, or swallow the VAT charge?
Thanks
Tom
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We are no way near that. I have 3 guys working for me and I stay at home all day.
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Do you know how much hassle is involved in him getting 50k out of that lot,250ks worth of work is a lot of work to get. If I was told I would be on a grand a week for my efforts I would stay on my pole,fair play to you Vin for doing what you've done.
Yeah its a lot of customers to get, but all he has to do is get them - when you have processes in place and the work comes in its easier over time. Get the processes nailed and there's little work involved.
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We are no way near that. I have 3 guys working for me and I stay at home all day.
How many vans have you got out?
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Nicely done PW. If I wore a hat, I'd take it off to you :) .
I had to smile because the turnover on my most recently submitted accounts was £xx,032. Please note though, only five numbers - and I'm not saying what the first two were :) .
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brilliant Vin ... thanks to you and your advice I will be ready the end of this year to get franchise 1 in place ... was aiming for sooner but still need the income from my round ... good stuff :)
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
Thats good work Vin. Just shows what can be achieved.
A question for you, when your royalty turnover reaches the VAT threshold will you charge your royalty plus VAT to your franchisee, or swallow the VAT charge?
Thanks
Tom
We'll swallow it. I think it would be an unreasonable increase to foist on the franchisees - it's not their fault.
It basically means there's going to be a franchisee (not sure which one) who doesn't make us a penny. The plan is to get close to the VAT limit, build up a chunk of capital to see us through then grow through the limit as fast as we can. The aim is to set up to recruit two new franchisees a year, so it'll be half a year's growth purely for the government's benefit. Once we've done it and worked through the initial registration year pain it'll just be a mild embuggerance.
It's something of a shame that VAT doesn't work a little more like income tax, whereby you pay on the amount by which you exceed the threshold. If it was that way it would blend in the VAT a little more gently. I can see reasons why that would be difficult but it would stop the daft situation we're in with people hovering just below the limit for years.
Vin
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We'll done vin.
I work all day every day and av never turned over that much in a year, one day al hit that quarter of a million mark tho ........ One day, just not yet tho ;D
If you posted saying u was looking for work and struggling for money more people would be sympathetic with there posts. It just seems that if post suton wanting to share your good experience and let others who are interested know how things are goin, it turns a lot of peoples eyes green .......
Keep goin vin
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Good work Vin, I'm curious though - what's the connection with Franky? He must be at least ninety miles away from you.
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
Thats good work Vin. Just shows what can be achieved.
A question for you, when your royalty turnover reaches the VAT threshold will you charge your royalty plus VAT to your franchisee, or swallow the VAT charge?
Thanks
Tom
We'll swallow it. I think it would be an unreasonable increase to foist on the franchisees - it's not their fault.
It basically means there's going to be a franchisee (not sure which one) who doesn't make us a penny. The plan is to get close to the VAT limit, build up a chunk of capital to see us through then grow through the limit as fast as we can. The aim is to set up to recruit two new franchisees a year, so it'll be half a year's growth purely for the government's benefit. Once we've done it and worked through the initial registration year pain it'll just be a mild embuggerance.
It's something of a shame that VAT doesn't work a little more like income tax, whereby you pay on the amount by which you exceed the threshold. If it was that way it would blend in the VAT a little more gently. I can see reasons why that would be difficult but it would stop the daft situation we're in with people hovering just below the limit for years.
Vin
That would do my head in, but I agree its not worth charging the franchisee.
Will you pay 12% or 20%?
What royalty percentage do you take from the franchisee?
Thanks
Tom
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Which one of them is cleaning the £32.00 ;D
Well, since I have handed over the lion's share of my work and kept the underpriced tripe, it'll be me. I do have a piddling flat that's £8 twelve-weekly so that'll be the one.
Vin
Fair play to you. I'm sure you've worked very hard to get to the 250.
I think it's great that you've shared this post, it shows what can be achieved if you've got the determination. Very inspiring.
Good luck with the next 250.
Robbo
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
Thats good work Vin. Just shows what can be achieved.
A question for you, when your royalty turnover reaches the VAT threshold will you charge your royalty plus VAT to your franchisee, or swallow the VAT charge?
Thanks
Tom
We'll swallow it. I think it would be an unreasonable increase to foist on the franchisees - it's not their fault.
It basically means there's going to be a franchisee (not sure which one) who doesn't make us a penny. The plan is to get close to the VAT limit, build up a chunk of capital to see us through then grow through the limit as fast as we can. The aim is to set up to recruit two new franchisees a year, so it'll be half a year's growth purely for the government's benefit. Once we've done it and worked through the initial registration year pain it'll just be a mild embuggerance.
It's something of a shame that VAT doesn't work a little more like income tax, whereby you pay on the amount by which you exceed the threshold. If it was that way it would blend in the VAT a little more gently. I can see reasons why that would be difficult but it would stop the daft situation we're in with people hovering just below the limit for years.
Vin
That would do my head in, but I agree its not worth charging the franchisee.
Will you pay 12% or 20%?
What royalty percentage do you take from the franchisee?
Thanks
Tom
I'm sure PW will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's already gone past the point where the simpified VAT (12%?) is an option.
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That would do my head in, but I agree its not worth charging the franchisee.
Will you pay 12% or 20%?
What royalty percentage do you take from the franchisee?
Thanks
Tom
We'll go on the flat rate as long as we can.
Royalty is 20%.
I'm sure PW will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's already gone past the point where the simpified VAT (12%?) is an option.
The number quoted is the sum of all the franchisees.
My VAT calculation is based on royalties received and the cleans I still do, so is much lower than £250K (and is currently below the VAT limit). The franchisees' turnover won't exceed the limit so they won't need to charge VAT. Hope that makes sense.
Vin
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Well done Vin, love what you've built in 5 years.
Tony
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That would do my head in, but I agree its not worth charging the franchisee.
Will you pay 12% or 20%?
What royalty percentage do you take from the franchisee?
Thanks
Tom
We'll go on the flat rate as long as we can.
Royalty is 20%.
I'm sure PW will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's already gone past the point where the simpified VAT (12%?) is an option.
The number quoted is the sum of all the franchisees.
My VAT calculation is based on royalties received and the cleans I still do, so is much lower than £250K (and is currently below the VAT limit). The franchisees' turnover won't exceed the limit so they won't need to charge VAT. Hope that makes sense.
Vin
You don't have to lump your turnover with the franchisee royalties though. A franchise business is totally different to you as a window cleaning business.
Just thinking about things, say total royalties is £100,000. Minus 12% = £88,000. Say £5000 expenses (could be more as not sure what you spend marketing etc or if franchisee payment covers that) So thats £83,000. Deduct corporation tax at 20% leaves approx £66,000. Its still good money for not having to do the work, but its not a lot compared to the value of the work.
I'm still undecided which route to go down. Hopefully you've got a kettle in your office Vin as I might have to visit you for a chat one day ;D
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Hi Tom-01
Not sure the VAT man would see it that way.
The franchise is a business model of the round Vin operates, I imagine at the very least his round which uses the same branding/systems etc would probably need to pay the royalty too, it would certainly be an interesting case, unfortunately if lost there would have a substantial bill for previous years undeclared.
I've spoken with various Tax specialists on this subject and like always their opinions vary dramatically from "yes thats fine" to "no it's not".
Be interested to hear what others think.
John
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Well done Vin, onwards and upwards
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
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You don't have to lump your turnover with the franchisee royalties though. A franchise business is totally different to you as a window cleaning business.
Just thinking about things, say total royalties is £100,000. Minus 12% = £88,000. Say £5000 expenses (could be more as not sure what you spend marketing etc or if franchisee payment covers that) So thats £83,000. Deduct corporation tax at 20% leaves approx £66,000. Its still good money for not having to do the work, but its not a lot compared to the value of the work.
I'm still undecided which route to go down. Hopefully you've got a kettle in your office Vin as I might have to visit you for a chat one day ;D
Theoretically I could run window cleaning and franchise business separately for VAT. However, having spoken to a VAT consultant, I found that what looks simple isn't. The businesses would have to be separate enough that they'd need different broadband accounts, PCs, even stationery (down to pens).
Then he mentioned case law that meant that if I were out cleaning and a franchisee in the next road needed a spare part, I'd need to drive home, swap to my car, drive out with a part that wasn't the one on my van, drive home, get into the van and return to my clean (there was a case involving a plumbing company that separated domestic from commercial that hinged on this very situation). If it's that hard to keep them separate, it's not worth it.
I'm not concerned about how little I appear to make given the amount being turned over by the franchisees. Not even slightly. Franchising works because the franchisees take the lion's share of the cash. You end up with capable, reliable people who want to do a good job for their business. I wouldn't swap that for a gold pig.
Kettle's always on.
Vin
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Well done Vin, always nice to read good news! Keep up the good work!
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Good work Vin, I'm curious though - what's the connection with Franky? He must be at least ninety miles away from you.
We met on a forum then ended up meeting in a car park in Keynsham. Very much like dogging, in fact.
Vin
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We'll done vin.
I work all day every day and av never turned over that much in a year, one day al hit that quarter of a million mark tho ........ One day, just not yet tho ;D
If you posted saying u was looking for work and struggling for money more people would be sympathetic with there posts. It just seems that if post suton wanting to share your good experience and let others who are interested know how things are goin, it turns a lot of peoples eyes green .......
Keep goin vin
That's not the case at all.
I couldn't care less about how well others are doing and I certainly don't get envious.
Let's face it, once you get your business off the ground its very easy to go large, just about everyone here could do it if they wanted.
I'm absolutely full to the brim with work. How much money and time have I invested in advertising my business in the last 2 years....£0.
Yet I continually gain new work through recommendation and being seen.
Hire some canvassers, spend some money on advertising, accounting etc, doesn't take that much of an IQ or hard work to really grow a window cleaning business further. Most people just choose not to, for whatever reason.
I think the thing that annoys some, myself included, about these type of posts is that the people that write them tend to only talk about themselves and how well they are doing, and come across as very vain and arrogant.
The phrase, 'know one likes a showoff' creeps to mind.
Yet if you look back at these peoples posts, once upon time they were asking for help, offering others help where they could and seemingly normal, friendly guys.
As there business has grown, they seem to have become narcissistic, offering little help or advice to others anymore and only posting about 'themselves' and how well they are doing, whilst seemingly perched on their golden throne looking down at the rest of us.
I have a record day planned this Sunday, £600 job booked in which will take me 1 day on my own. (Seriously)
Maybe I should start a post about it, take some pictures, write my own window cleaning book named 'a fools guide to picking up easy overpriced work'.
But really, does anyone really care about MY business? Will anyone buy my book?
No on both counts me thinks.
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I've just been on Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway Super Computer and it's told me that my Turnover is 250.033, Oh, and in 17 years time I'll have 44 vans on the road!! 8)
I'd like to thank..
Peter
Paul
John
Wendy
Alison
Dean
George
Dale
Steve
Brian
Danny
John
Eddy (without who's help I'd be no one)
Mi Mam
Terry
Andy
Mi Dad
Ar kid
Next Door
Adam (from corner shop)
Dexter
James
Milk man
Dave
Walter
I really couldn't have done it without you all, let me just wipe my eye, thank you.
please, oh please shower me with compliments, Honestly, I don't do these post to generate a reaction, go on, continue to tell me just how great I am, I'm not needy at all, you know you wanna!
Oh, and to all you haters- it just makes me more determined to continue to remind you all just how great I am. So there.
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Hi Tom-01
Not sure the VAT man would see it that way.
The franchise is a business model of the round Vin operates, I imagine at the very least his round which uses the same branding/systems etc would probably need to pay the royalty too, it would certainly be an interesting case, unfortunately if lost there would have a substantial bill for previous years undeclared.
I've spoken with various Tax specialists on this subject and like always their opinions vary dramatically from "yes thats fine" to "no it's not".
Be interested to hear what others think.
John
Hi John
I did think that initially. I then had a meeting with my accountant, who has franchised his business and he said that a franchise business is different to your own business, so I was just going off of what he said. Like you say there's always a difference of opinion :-\
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
This is exactly the type of response he's after ;)
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I've just been on Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway Super Computer and it's told me that my Turnover is 250.033, Oh, and in 17 years time I'll have 44 vans on the road!! 8)
I'd like to thank..
Peter
Paul
John
Wendy
Alison
Dean
George
Dale
Steve
Brian
Danny
John
Eddy (without who's help I'd be no one)
Mi Mam
Terry
Andy
Mi Dad
Ar kid
Next Door
Adam (from corner shop) Ranjit FTFY
Dexter
James
Milk man
Dave
Walter
I really couldn't have done it without you all, let me just wipe my eye, thank you.
please, oh please shower me with compliments, Honestly, I don't do these post to generate a reaction, go on, continue to tell me just how great I am, I'm not needy at all, you know you wanna!
Oh, and to all you haters- it just makes me more determined to continue to remind you all just how great I am. So there.
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
This is exactly the type of response he's after ;)
He's like that desperate FB "friend" we all have, you know the one who likes to hear the sound of their own voice too much.
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
This is exactly the type of response he's after ;)
You come across as bitter Chris , I don't know vin but he's seems to be doing good at what he's doing , I respect and admire most people who do the same as I do and are successful at it
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
This is exactly the type of response he's after ;)
You come across as bitter Chris , I don't know vin but he's seems to be doing good at what he's doing , I respect and admire most people who do the same as I do and are successful at it
If you met me, some on here have, you would say I'm the nicest, friendliest bloke going.
I just don't have time for those that think their better then others, I certainly don't respect or admire it.
I use to like vins posts, genuinely. That was until the helpful, informative posts dried up and made way for the me me me posts.
Perhaps smudger could teach vin on how to run a successful business whilst remaining dignified, courteous, friendly and helpful.
Smudger has it nailed, which is why know one ever critises him if he posts pictures of his work or how well he is doing.
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
This is exactly the type of response he's after ;)
You come across as bitter Chris , I don't know vin but he's seems to be doing good at what he's doing , I respect and admire most people who do the same as I do and are successful at it
If you met me, some on here have, you would say I'm the nicest, friendliest bloke going.
I just don't have time for those that think their better then others, I certainly don't respect or admire it.
I use to like vins posts, genuinely. That was until the helpful, informative posts dried up and made way for the me me me posts.
Perhaps smudger could teach vin on how to run a successful business whilst remaining dignified, courteous, friendly and helpful.
Smudger has it nailed, which is why know one ever critises him if he posts pictures of his work or how well he is doing.
Well said, there is only so much distasteful, me me me BS one can swallow and I for one have swallowed enough of the jumped up little snobs superiority bovine manure. It has absolutely Nothing to do with envy, someone like that is the last person on earth I would wish to be like, trust me, it's not a quality I ever wish to have!
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What about me me me me numptyody has mentioned me me me lol what a load of 💩💩💩💩💩
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Well let me tell you I am jealous of him 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🚽🚽
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You don't know how well I'm doing let me tell you lot,don't you know I e just bought a Neon brush,yeah there you go out that in your pipe and smoke it you lot of losers. 🔙🔜
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Each to their own.
It was a major milestone for me and I wanted to share it with you all; even my own, my very own personal stalker, Cumbucket.
Have a nice day!
Vin
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Perfect windows,
Hats off to you for a great marketing achievement. Simple question....who owns the income (work) ?
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Each to their own.
It was a major milestone for me and I wanted to share it with you all; even my own, my very own personal stalker, Cumbucket.
Have a nice day!
Vin
Utter rubbish and an insult to anyone with an ounce of intelligence- it was posted solely to massage your giant EGO!
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Utter rubbish and an insult to anyone with an ounce of intelligence- it was posted solely to massage your giant EGO!
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
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Seriously is that Vin lol only joking he's probably out canvassing ⛷⛷⛷
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Very well done mate.
It just goes to show whats possible for those with an open mind who just get on with it!
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
May the 4th be with you? ;D
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When you've got a Neon brush the worlds your oyster.
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That would do my head in, but I agree its not worth charging the franchisee.
Will you pay 12% or 20%?
What royalty percentage do you take from the franchisee?
Thanks
Tom
We'll go on the flat rate as long as we can.
Royalty is 20%.
I'm sure PW will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's already gone past the point where the simpified VAT (12%?) is an option.
The number quoted is the sum of all the franchisees.
My VAT calculation is based on royalties received and the cleans I still do, so is much lower than £250K (and is currently below the VAT limit). The franchisees' turnover won't exceed the limit so they won't need to charge VAT. Hope that makes sense.
Vin
You don't have to lump your turnover with the franchisee royalties though. A franchise business is totally different to you as a window cleaning business.
Just thinking about things, say total royalties is £100,000. Minus 12% = £88,000. Say £5000 expenses (could be more as not sure what you spend marketing etc or if franchisee payment covers that) So thats £83,000. Deduct corporation tax at 20% leaves approx £66,000. Its still good money for not having to do the work, but its not a lot compared to the value of the work.
I'm still undecided which route to go down. Hopefully you've got a kettle in your office Vin as I might have to visit you for a chat one day ;D
Think there might be a queue Tom! Black coffee one sugar.
@ Vin Fantastic news, well done.
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Well done, but I can see how its been taken the wrong way, I mean starting the topic with a figure for a start is a bit show-offish :-*
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Well done, but I can see how its been taken the wrong way, I mean starting the topic with a figure for a start is a bit show-offish :-*
Says the guy using a picture of his "rather attractive girlfriend" as his avatar! ;D
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If you own the work, I am still trying to work out who's accounts it is held in.
To avoid VAT on the total income, it would have to be held in segments by the "franchisee's", in that case they own them and you cannot get them back and are paying you 20% ( a high franchisee management fee) for ownership.
If you own it, and are hiding it in the "franchisees" accounts, that sounds like fraud.
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If you own the work, I am still trying to work out who's accounts it is held in.
To avoid VAT on the total income, it would have to be held in segments by the "franchisee's", in that case they own them and you cannot get them back and are paying you 20% ( a high franchisee management fee) for ownership.
If you own it, and are hiding it in the "franchisees" accounts, that sounds like fraud.
You've asked this before and it was answered before:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=200395.msg1759174#msg1759174
Vin
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Just home, booked another couple of jobs and Aworka tells me that the combined annual value of all our franchisees' rounds has just passed a quarter of a million quid. Which is nice. As of May 4th 2010, our total round value was zero.
The (virtual) beer's on me.
Vin
May the 4th be with you? ;D
Coincidence, honestly - didn't notice till the first anniversary.
If I'd gone out of business the next day would it have been "the revenge of the fifth"?
I'll get my coat.
Vin
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Are you serious...that was an answer????
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Are you serious...that was an answer????
I assumed you might read down the thread a little until you got to the answer but here it is:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=200395.msg1759196#msg1759196
Vin
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What your ending up with at the end of the day m8 your no Better off than lots of people on here,it looks better on paper but that's about it. We have had this argument before and if you can b motivated enough it can be done far in excess in the figure quoted but it's done by employing and having upwards of5-6 vehicles,what would happen in a court if you say your getting a percentage of work done but all the new work your getting people you are owed 20%,surely it won't take long before all those extra 20%s push you over the VAT limit. What are you going to say to the inland revenue when they say who owns what. So what your saying is then is that it stops here your earning what you say and you won't at any point be earning any more.
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So you've got £250.000 of income. got some individuals to sign contracts to call themselves Franchisees to divvy up the total, and pay you for the privilege. Good luck on that one.
.
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£250,000 turnover. I guess that's motivation and focus for you, well done. More than me, focus and mojo I mean. Good going. Well done.
I don't if it's just me, it probably is. But when some people talk about having a franchise they refer to the franchisees as 'mine' or 'my franchisees'; like they own them or they're their little baby. As if its a status symbol or has some sort of personal qudos. Strange.
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Each to their own.
It was a major milestone for me and I wanted to share it with you all; even my own, my very own personal stalker, Cumbucket.
Have a nice day!
Vin
Ha ha! Great response.
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Thats pretty impressive in just over 5 years. How do you get most of your customers? flyers, canvasing?
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That is good going. Well done.
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. Thats pretty impressive in just over 5 years. How do you get most of your customers? flyers, canvasing?
Don't you know, leaflets don't work! ;D
Couldn't resist :D
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. Thats pretty impressive in just over 5 years. How do you get most of your customers? flyers, canvasing?
Don't you know, leaflets don't work! ;D
Couldn't resist :D
Hi Lance, speaking of enquiries did you get a call from an estates manager this morning for a large country house?
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be better if that 250k worth of turn over was actually yours
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be better if that 250k worth of turn over was actually yours
It would be even more impressive if we knew what combined "value" actually meant? (and by this stage, believe it) Already achieved? Theoretical potential? It's pretty meaningless, particularly given that it's from a known braggart ;D
For instance, I recently picked up a monthly (large) domestic @ £125. It takes me 2.5 hours. Now, if I filled my round with those stats I could potentially be on £124,800 on my own.
So, I could, if I was also suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, create a thread titled "£124,800 on my own". But of course, I would never do that and I think anyone with half a brain would understand why. ;D
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We'll done vin.
I work all day every day and av never turned over that much in a year, one day al hit that quarter of a million mark tho ........ One day, just not yet tho ;D
If you posted saying u was looking for work and struggling for money more people would be sympathetic with there posts. It just seems that if post suton wanting to share your good experience and let others who are interested know how things are goin, it turns a lot of peoples eyes green .......
Keep goin vin
That's not the case at all.
I couldn't care less about how well others are doing and I certainly don't get envious.
Let's face it, once you get your business off the ground its very easy to go large, just about everyone here could do it if they wanted.
I'm absolutely full to the brim with work. How much money and time have I invested in advertising my business in the last 2 years....£0.
Yet I continually gain new work through recommendation and being seen.
Hire some canvassers, spend some money on advertising, accounting etc, doesn't take that much of an IQ or hard work to really grow a window cleaning business further. Most people just choose not to, for whatever reason.
I think the thing that annoys some, myself included, about these type of posts is that the people that write them tend to only talk about themselves and how well they are doing, and come across as very vain and arrogant.
The phrase, 'know one likes a showoff' creeps to mind.
Yet if you look back at these peoples posts, once upon time they were asking for help, offering others help where they could and seemingly normal, friendly guys.
As there business has grown, they seem to have become narcissistic, offering little help or advice to others anymore and only posting about 'themselves' and how well they are doing, whilst seemingly perched on their golden throne looking down at the rest of us.
I have a record day planned this Sunday, £600 job booked in which will take me 1 day on my own. (Seriously)
Maybe I should start a post about it, take some pictures, write my own window cleaning book named 'a fools guide to picking up easy overpriced work'.
But really, does anyone really care about MY business? Will anyone buy my book?
No on both counts me thinks.
Good post ;D
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Well done vin that's awesome 👍
This is exactly the type of response he's after ;)
He's like that desperate FB "friend" we all have, you know the one who likes to hear the sound of their own voice too much.
;D
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https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07223195/PERFECT-WINDOW-CLEANING-LIMITED/financial-accounts
Surely you should be VAT registered! Company house says your total NET for 2015 was 485k unless thats not your company.
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https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07223195/PERFECT-WINDOW-CLEANING-LIMITED/financial-accounts
Surely you should be VAT registered! Company house says your total NET for 2015 was 485k unless thats not your company.
That's pounds Mick, not Thousands. ;D He's 15k in debt! ;D
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According to that my net worth is £2.5k... My poor wife she would never had married me if she knew the truth! ;D
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How can you say your turning over 250,000 and not be VAT registered then,he's supposed to own the business what happens if someone starts stealing work like I said in a previous thread or not paying rent for the round,if he takes them to court is he not doing it on the basis that it's his business or work. Like I've said until these sort of scenarios are happening it seems easy wait till you need to take them to court because they refuse to pay the rent and the customers are on there side when you say you want the work back,in a fantasy where all people are genuine and are willing to go along with your plans it's happy days but all I can see long term with this situation is problem after problem,employing different story your actually there running it and keeping an eye on things this business is unique.
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How can you say your turning over 250,000 and not be VAT registered then,he's supposed to own the business what happens if someone starts stealing work like I said in a previous thread or not paying rent for the round,if he takes them to court is he not doing it on the basis that it's his business or work. Like I've said until these sort of scenarios are happening it seems easy wait till you need to take them to court because they refuse to pay the rent and the customers are on there side when you say you want the work back,in a fantasy where all people are genuine and are willing to go along with your plans it's happy days but all I can see long term with this situation is problem after problem,employing different story your actually there running it and keeping an eye on things this business is unique.
That's a good point NWH - Are there any franchise owners on here who has actually had a franchisee take your work? If so did you successfully fight them in court?
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I'm thinking of renting my round out and retiring,Ive just had enquiry from the cast of Charlie and the chocolate factory they were singing that song myyyyyyyy immaaaaagggginaaaaation lol.
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How could you fight them in court you are legally saying it's not your business they just pay you on paper for the hell of it really like they are doing you a favour lol,why are they paying you they are paying you because like you say you own the work it's yours.Ok so you tell the inland revenue it's not yours but you tell the judge it is,come on lads this gets better this franchise poop everytime we discuss it,it sounds to me like all these people buying into it haven't got any clue what they are doing. Ok they might earn good money and you might but TBH it doesn't look legal to me and I think I would be proved right if you tried taking someone renting a round off you to court.
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Also and above board franchises will have identical uniform and sinage on vehicles,eisman foods dent magician the list goes on they all look the same out and about on the road do yours or are they all just self employed window cleaners paying you a fee for you canvassing the work,are you a glorified canvasser that doesn't take one payment you keep taking it month after month.
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Have you been on the sauce again?
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The franchise system works mate and it's all totally legal. There's loads of domestic cleaning franchises out there and oven cleaners. Window cleaning franchises are no different.
I'm just wondering if any on here have had any franchisees take the work as their own and refuse to pay royalties and if so how did they combat it?
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. Thats pretty impressive in just over 5 years. How do you get most of your customers? flyers, canvasing?
Don't you know, leaflets don't work! ;D
Couldn't resist :D
Hi Lance, speaking of enquiries did you get a call from an estates manager this morning for a large country house?
Wasn't Lamborne way was it?
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How can you say your turning over 250,000 and not be VAT registered then,he's supposed to own the business what happens if someone starts stealing work like I said in a previous thread or not paying rent for the round,if he takes them to court is he not doing it on the basis that it's his business or work. Like I've said until these sort of scenarios are happening it seems easy wait till you need to take them to court because they refuse to pay the rent and the customers are on there side when you say you want the work back,in a fantasy where all people are genuine and are willing to go along with your plans it's happy days but all I can see long term with this situation is problem after problem,employing different story your actually there running it and keeping an eye on things this business is unique.
He never said HE was turning over £250k. You need to pay attention. The franchisees and him combined are turning over that. Therefore he doesn't need to register. I agree it's a slight avoidance but if that's the rules, that's the rules.
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Have you been on the sauce again?
Does he ever post anything where you don't have to roll your eyes? ::)roll
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This business is unique and you would be more likely to get ripped off than you would be with the oven business or similar,window cleaning is far more open for you to be able to rip people off you are so reliant on trust ok you'll get 8 weekly come on here in a bit and say they he finds his staff with a cross branded on there forehead but in reality you are open to being fleeced even by people you would never expect, it happens every day of the week not matter what you pay or do for them.
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Have you been on the sauce again?
Does he ever post anything where you don't have to roll your eyes? ::)roll
::)roll ;D
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This business is unique and you would be more likely to get ripped off than you would be with the oven business or similar,window cleaning is far more open for you to be able to rip people off you are so reliant on trust ok you'll get 8 weekly come on here in a bit and say they he finds his staff with a cross branded on there forehead but in reality you are open to being fleeced even by people you would never expect, it happens every day of the week not matter what you pay or do for them.
Aggreed.
What if a franchisee that has been cleaning them for 5 years tells all customers he will drop there price 10 percent and do them direct..all the customers will go with it and simply leave the franchise as saving 10 percent and get to keep there friendly window cleaner who has been serving them for 5 years previous.
Not that this example will happen to Vinny, just a what if.
Surely if went to court the judge will say its upto the homeowner who comes and goes from there property or who they pay there money too???
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This business is unique and you would be more likely to get ripped off than you would be with the oven business or similar,window cleaning is far more open for you to be able to rip people off you are so reliant on trust ok you'll get 8 weekly come on here in a bit and say they he finds his staff with a cross branded on there forehead but in reality you are open to being fleeced even by people you would never expect, it happens every day of the week not matter what you pay or do for them.
Aggreed.
What if a franchisee that has been cleaning them for 5 years tells all customers he will drop there price 10 percent and do them direct..all the customers will go with it and simply leave the franchise as saving 10 percent and get to keep there friendly window cleaner who has been serving them for 5 years previous.
Not that this example will happen to Vinny, just a what if.
Surely if went to court the judge will say its upto the homeowner who comes and goes from there property or who they pay there money too???
They have a legally binding contract. ::)roll
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How can you say your turning over 250,000 and not be VAT registered then,he's supposed to own the business what happens if someone starts stealing work like I said in a previous thread or not paying rent for the round,if he takes them to court is he not doing it on the basis that it's his business or work. Like I've said until these sort of scenarios are happening it seems easy wait till you need to take them to court because they refuse to pay the rent and the customers are on there side when you say you want the work back,in a fantasy where all people are genuine and are willing to go along with your plans it's happy days but all I can see long term with this situation is problem after problem,employing different story your actually there running it and keeping an eye on things this business is unique.
He never said HE was turning over £250k. You need to pay attention. The franchisees and him combined are turning over that. Therefore he doesn't need to register. I agree it's a slight avoidance but if that's the rules, that's the rules.
No you need to pay attention also what is going to happen when he wants to take one of them to court for non payment tell me what does he do please,what does he say to be judge he has not been paying me the rent for MY WORK. Off the record he isn't avoiding TAX and VAT because in his mind he owns 250.000 worth of work on paper he is just declaring the income he gets which I suspect he is just putting down as money earnt from cleaning windows. He is sub contracting out 250000 worth of work which he owns he must do he's getting paid for renting it out,why would people pay him month after month if they owned it.
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Yes i know that its a contract!!....if the customer knew that a court hearing was taking place over who cleans there windows teh they simply will cancel anyway so who wins then??? Ill tell you who another window cleaner.
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What's to stop anyone you employ doing that?
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Legally binding is it I want one of you to tell me what your going to do when one of them stops paying you each month and steals the customers,if the customers choose to go with him you have absolutely nothing you can do if he briefs them prior to not paying you,honestly do you know how much hassle you would have trying to sort hat lot out. Let's not forget after a year or so they won't have a clue who you are if you knock at the customers door and say I'm cleaning your Windows from now on I own the work,if someone did that to me and I liked the other bloke I'd tell you to jog on mate I'll have who I want clean my Windows.
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The franchisee would sign a binding contract - be no point going to court ::)roll
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What's to stop anyone you employ doing that?
Thats what im saying.. Anyone can do it.
And people do, i have had it happen to me a few times.
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What's to stop anyone you employ doing that?
Nail hit well and truly on the head it's a bullseye,absolutely nothing whatsoever so what do you think 2 blokes out on there own grafting and after a year or so say I ain't paying him anymore I've had enough giving him so much a month I've changed my mind he can swing for it. Lol it looks lovely on paper all this I bet there is a few on here that could tell you a tale or 2 about being ripped off by someone that works actually with them daily side by side let alone 1-2 blokes out on there own week in week out,legally binding or not the hassle involved in trying to claw it back would be a nightmare.
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Don't know why everyone gets so narked about franchising - brilliant idea if you ask me. The franchiser has all the advantages of employing with very few obligations, no pension to provide, no holiday pay, no insurance to pay out, don't even need to supply the van, franchisee even works out and pays his own tax.The biggest drawback is guaranteeing enough work for the franchisee. Vin seems to have that covered.
Ian Lancasters the man to talk to (he could be touring Spain in his camper van as we speak) ;D
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The franchisee would sign a binding contract - be no point going to court ::)roll
legally binding or not Mick some people don't give a damn if it's legal or not they might seem nice initially but people change,you are gambling on the fact they don't wise up to things once they do and say you can poke your monthly fee you've had it. With this job as we all know it's down to be customer and who they want cleaning there Windows if they still want him after he stops paying there is diddly squat you can do just think what you'd say if you had someone tell you on your doorstep I'm cleaning your Windows from now on its my work,I'd tell him to f&&& off.
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Are there any franchisors on here who have had one of their franchisees take the work for themself? We hear and understand all the good things, but what if it does get a bit ugly? Or has it never ever happened?
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I would say it's not he model that works in window cleaning more like the type of people you get signing up for it,if you get people that know nothing about the business involved ok they might stay in it longer but if you get some bloke with a bit of savvy he could be a nightmare at paying you or stealing your so called work.
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::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
The franchisee signs a binding contract and stumps up a fair whack of his own money. It's unlikely he's going to bite the hand that feeds him, go to court, lose all his work and invested money.
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I would say it's not he model that works in window cleaning more like the type of people you get signing up for it,if you get people that know nothing about the business involved ok they might stay in it longer but if you get some bloke with a bit of savvy he could be a nightmare at paying you or stealing your so called work.
But it does work see the original post ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
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Listen m8 it all lovely jubbly rosy in the garden your not going to here all the horror story's that go on,you've only got to look at headings like I'm now at 250000 mark lol.to ask the question has anyone had anyone steal work etc you must be joking that would be like saying all of the above is correct. This business can be built massive if anyone should so wish but IMO only by being there and keeping an eye on things and knowing what's going on day to day.
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I might make a few franchises out of my work it's either that or give it away but then again it all amounts to the same thing really lol.
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Vin, Ian and Kent Clean must be laughing their socks off reading this. Vin does come across as arrogant sometimes but he's done it, fair play to him. I remember when he started up on here years ago and bought into Ians' scheme. I wish I'd had the guts to do it. Instead I'm working up to six days a week flat out on my own with a poor pension outlook whilst Ian is taking it easy. Who's the mugs?
PS the beauty of it is once you've built it up your franchisees run their own business - you don't need to be there.
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What's to stop anyone you employ doing that?
Nail hit well and truly on the head it's a bullseye,absolutely nothing whatsoever so what do you think 2 blokes out on there own grafting and after a year or so say I ain't paying him anymore I've had enough giving him so much a month I've changed my mind he can swing for it. Lol it looks lovely on paper all this I bet there is a few on here that could tell you a tale or 2 about being ripped off by someone that works actually with them daily side by side let alone 1-2 blokes out on there own week in week out,legally binding or not the hassle involved in trying to claw it back would be a nightmare.
Well what's the point at al of anything? Why clean windows because all the customers might decide not to pay? ::)roll
I don't know how you get out of bed in the morning NWH. If I thought the way you did I'd take an overdose because there's no point in anything.
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Vin, Ian and Kent Clean must be laughing their socks off reading this. Vin does come across as arrogant sometimes but he's done it, fair play to him. I remember when he started up on here years ago and bought into Ians' scheme. I wish I'd had the guts to do it. Instead I'm working up to six days a week flat out on my own with a poor pension outlook whilst Ian is taking it easy. Who's the mugs?
PS the beauty of it is once you've built it up your franchisees run their own business - you don't need to be there.
Not sure about the last point.
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I've been out all day so here's the deal.
I'm being pretty clearly accused repeatedly of tax evasion. I'm not. The deal is a franchise. It's not "rent". All the guys are uniformed, in sign written vans, etc, etc. They pay for the right to use our name. They run their own business. There are hundreds upon hundreds of franchises across the world running in the same way.
Ref our accounts; if you don't understand how limited companies finances work, e.g. that money owed to me and my wife as individuals appears as debt on the company accounts, don't make silly comments.
Regarding leaving and trying to carry on, the franchise agreement is clear that if someone leaves they (the ex-franchisee) are not entitled to carry out cleaning at any current customer. Note that the customer can ask whomever they want to clean their windows (to insist otherwise would be nonsensical). However, the ex-franchisee would be unable to do so; that's what the court case and damage claim would be about. As I know that this will be wilfully misunderstood by at least one person on this thread, I'll repeat, no-one is forcing the customer not to use the ex-franchisee; instead the ex-franchisee is obliged to turn the work down or pay damages to the franchisor for breach of contract (with the franchisor, not the customer).
Common sense and the law are often far apart - that's why I use a franchise solicitor for advice rather than an internet forum. So, all that I've said above is true (at least according to a ridiculously expensive legal expert) but I have no doubt some of you will be able to tell me where she's wrong.
Vin
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Vin, Ian and Kent Clean must be laughing their socks off reading this. Vin does come across as arrogant sometimes but he's done it, fair play to him. I remember when he started up on here years ago and bought into Ians' scheme. I wish I'd had the guts to do it. Instead I'm working up to six days a week flat out on my own with a poor pension outlook whilst Ian is taking it easy. Who's the mugs?
PS the beauty of it is once you've built it up your franchisees run their own business - you don't need to be there.
Not sure about the last point.
Me too. I spend a lot of time keeping on top of what's happening. It's worth it but it's really not money for nothing.
Vin
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I would say they are very very fortunate with the types of personalities involved in there setups that's all that's what it's down to IMO,regardless of any contract they might have if the customers are talked into going with them that's it over window cleaning is like that it's a personal thing. They take him to court and can manage to prove very little still don't get the work back they still end up losing,they are reliant on getting very honest and nice franchisees for window cleaning it's not like they are providing a product like Mcdonalds,as soon as one of there outlets is not performing for whatever reason the franchise is taken off of them they can't all of a sudden go to McDonald's and say I still want to buy your burgers and sell them out of a van.
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Be interesting to know how the inland revenue view this setup,the work has to belong to someone it can't be the people paying you a monthly fee can it Vin.
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Since joining this forum, this has been my favourite post. That is all. As you were....
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No you need to pay attention also what is going to happen when he wants to take one of them to court for non payment tell me what does he do please,what does he say to be judge he has not been paying me the rent for MY WORK. Off the record he is avoiding TAX and VAT because in his mind he owns 250.000 worth of work on paper he is just declaring the income he gets which I suspect he is just putting down as money earnt from cleaning windows. He is sub contracting out 250000 worth of work which he owns he must do he's getting paid for renting it out,why would people pay him month after month if they owned it.
Red bit: You're edging very close to libel there. You're accusing me of avoiding tax when the truth is I'm running a franchise that's been pored over by an expert (that's someone who knows what they are talking about, in case you're in any doubt as to what that might be) whose advice to me is that this is all legal, above board and enforceable.
Blue bit: Why on earth would I falsely account for money received? Seriously? What could possibly be the benefit to me? Royalties are recorded as royalties.
Green bit: I'm not subcontracting or renting anything. The royalties are a fee for (amongst other things) using our logo, designs and business methods. They are not rent.
Vin
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lol honestly and people think I talk a lot S@@@ on here about certain things,when are people going to be honest and say you can build a fantastic business window cleaning if you want to but it comes with problems like any other business. To say just go out and get 250000 worth of work and jobs a good'n just get 10'sholin monks to work it for you and you'll be fine is you won't have any day to day stress is Sh£&be at its best.
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Thats pretty impressive in just over 5 years. How do you get most of your customers? flyers, canvasing?
About ten or fifteen customers canvassed, all the rest leaflets and web.
Vin
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Why would you come on here in the first place and talk trump,who cares what your doing in my experience people with big dicks don't need to tell the girls. You have not stated in previous posts how it is done properly as a business how it's broken down and who owns what,why do you think questions arise you make a statement 250000 and expect people to get on there knees and unzip you.
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No you need to pay attention also what is going to happen when he wants to take one of them to court for non payment tell me what does he do please,what does he say to be judge he has not been paying me the rent for MY WORK. Off the record he is avoiding TAX and VAT because in his mind he owns 250.000 worth of work on paper he is just declaring the income he gets which I suspect he is just putting down as money earnt from cleaning windows. He is sub contracting out 250000 worth of work which he owns he must do he's getting paid for renting it out,why would people pay him month after month if they owned it.
Red bit: You're edging very close to libel there. You're accusing me of avoiding tax when the truth is I'm running a franchise that's been pored over by an expert (that's someone who knows what they are talking about, in case you're in any doubt as to what that might be) whose advice to me is that this is all legal, above board and enforceable.
Blue bit: Why on earth would I falsely account for money received? Seriously? What could possibly be the benefit to me? Royalties are recorded as royalties.
Green bit: I'm not subcontracting or renting anything. The royalties are a fee for (amongst other things) using our logo, designs and business methods. They are not rent.
Vin
Who owns all the work then that was my question it was a question not a accusation against anyone,all this talk about 250000 worth of work must belong to someone I couldn't give a monkeys about how much TAX you pay its irrelevant to my point.
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Who owns all the work then that was my question it was a question not a accusation against anyone,all this talk about 250000 worth of work must belong to someone I couldn't give a monkeys about how much TAX you pay its irrelevant to my point.
In what way was "he is avoiding TAX and VAT" "not a accusation against anyone"?
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NWH google FISH window cleaning.its a massive franchise window cleaning business in america..franchises work very well for window cleaning.
well done vin.hats off to you for making it work and best wishes for your future growth. :)
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He is either this or he's either that I was saying that coz I'm trying to work out how you doing it,you are not saying how it's done legally between you and the people doing the work that was my point. If you put a thread up and don't expect people to try and work out how your doing it what do you expect it would be liable if I said Mr X is avoiding this or that because of this reason,all I'm doing is asking how it's done divided up legally. It would be more interesting if someone came on here and said its not all plain sailing you know there are pitfalls along the way,instead is saying allo I've got a franchise don't you know and I'm earning XYZ try making it interesting by telling people how it's run or how the TAX and VAT is worked out it might help a few people then,but its done for ego then I would expect no more. Break it down and explain,put your trumpet down for a minute.
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FISH window cleaning has over 250 franchise offices across the united states!so it does work very well! :)
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All county window cleaning was purchased from him,he's a bigger arsehole than me and that's saying something.
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All county window cleaning was purchased from him,he's a bigger arsehole than me and that's saying something.
;D ;D ;D
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All county window cleaning was purchased from him,he's a bigger arsehole than me and that's saying something.
;D ;D ;D
lol 🚽🚽🚽🚽🔙🔜
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So recently I posted a pic of a glass roof I was cleaning, I didnt do it to brag just to share the job with anyone interested. Some liked it 1 never. Am all about seeing what others are getting upto and helping those out that need it
Maybe vin just wanted to let others know how things were going for him, and anyone else who's thinking of doing the same can see how well it's going for him.
Chris, I wasn't saying your jealous of vin, at all, this for me is well done to vin, but for other they just think he's blowing his on trumpet. I don't see it like that.
I thought this forum was all about helping each other out ........... But as the mrs would say to me, you know what thought did !!!
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just need onionman to put his opinion on here
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He should say how it's done it's like smoke and mirrors cloak and dagger I'm doing this and that if he's not willing to share his pearls of wisdom people are going to think he's full of Sh&@"£.
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just need onionman to put his opinion on here
Hes the daddy is he lol
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just need onionman to put his opinion on here
He was as bad under the guise of Onionman too! ;D
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He is either this or he's either that I was saying that coz I'm trying to work out how you doing it,you are not saying how it's done legally between you and the people doing the work that was my point. If you put a thread up and don't expect people to try and work out how your doing it what do you expect it would be liable if I said Mr X is avoiding this or that because of this reason,all I'm doing is asking how it's done divided up legally. It would be more interesting if someone came on here and said its not all plain sailing you know there are pitfalls along the way,instead is saying allo I've got a franchise don't you know and I'm earning XYZ try making it interesting by telling people how it's run or how the TAX and VAT is worked out it might help a few people then,but its done for ego then I would expect no more. Break it down and explain,put your trumpet down for a minute.
You can blather all you want but you still haven't answered how accusing me of "avoiding TAX and VAT" is "not a accusation against anyone"?
That is nothing at all to do with ego, helping people, asking how it's done, or putting a trumpet down. It's a false allegation. It's libel, plain and simple. Do you know what libel is? You might want to look it up.
Vin
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No you need to pay attention also what is going to happen when he wants to take one of them to court for non payment tell me what does he do please,what does he say to be judge he has not been paying me the rent for MY WORK. Off the record he is avoiding TAX and VAT because in his mind he owns 250.000 worth of work on paper he is just declaring the income he gets which I suspect he is just putting down as money earnt from cleaning windows. He is sub contracting out 250000 worth of work which he owns he must do he's getting paid for renting it out,why would people pay him month after month if they owned it.
Red bit: You're edging very close to libel there. You're accusing me of avoiding tax when the truth is I'm running a franchise that's been pored over by an expert (that's someone who knows what they are talking about, in case you're in any doubt as to what that might be) whose advice to me is that this is all legal, above board and enforceable.
Blue bit: Why on earth would I falsely account for money received? Seriously? What could possibly be the benefit to me? Royalties are recorded as royalties.
Green bit: I'm not subcontracting or renting anything. The royalties are a fee for (amongst other things) using our logo, designs and business methods. They are not rent.
Vin
He seems to be (wrongly) hinting at tax avoidance - which is legal. It's evasion that is illegal.
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He seems to be (wrongly) hinting at tax avoidance - which is legal. It's evasion that is illegal.
Indeed, but he doesn't need to accuse me of something illegal for it to be libel.
For example, if he said I was a drag queen every weekday evening, he wouldn't be accusing me of something illegal but it would still be libel*
Vin
* As I only do my drag act at weekends.
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I will ask my brother in law Vin do want his name he's a barrister
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I will ask my brother in law Vin do want his name he's a barrister
I've asked nicely twice now. I will ask you a final time, in what way was "he is avoiding TAX and VAT" "not a accusation against anyone"?
Vin
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It was meant as in anyone running a similar business him her it whatever you want to call it ,you asking me to explain you want to try explaining how you do it instead of trying make us all guess.
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Walter Mitty said it in the same context it was said as an example of anyone doing the same thing.
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He seems to be (wrongly) hinting at tax avoidance - which is legal. It's evasion that is illegal.
Indeed, but he doesn't need to accuse me of something illegal for it to be libel.
For example, if he said I was a drag queen every weekday evening, he wouldn't be accusing me of something illegal but it would still be libel*
Vin
* As I only do my drag act at weekends.
I take your point.
I just want to say congratulations, though I'm surprised you posted it on here as there are always some dissenters.
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I say good luck to him I'd like to know how it's done.
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He seems to be (wrongly) hinting at tax avoidance - which is legal. It's evasion that is illegal.
Indeed, but he doesn't need to accuse me of something illegal for it to be libel.
For example, if he said I was a drag queen every weekday evening, he wouldn't be accusing me of something illegal but it would still be libel*
Vin
* As I only do my drag act at weekends.
I take your point.
I just want to say congratulations, though I'm surprised you posted it on here as there are always some dissenters.
Thanks, though I'm assuming the congratulations is not for the drag act...
NWH and Cumbucket dissenting doesn't bother me in the slightest. As I've said previously I normally laugh at them, not with them. They are unintentionally hilarious. NWH's accusation was irritating me but I'm going to ignore it now that I know he has a barrister in the family.
Vin
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
Sorry, you've used up all your chances of any kind of answer from me.
Vin
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
Oddly enough i'm with NWH on this one ;)
I think a lot of windies heading towards retirement (or not) think about their options and franchising is definitely an option.
You obviously have a lot of hands-on experience to give so why not write a short book or 'guide' on 'how to franchise your window cleaning business'. You could start from scratch and give all the processes, figures, legislations etc. Show how you started and how you did it. I for one would be willing to pay for that kind of info. Got to be worth £50 a pop. I wonder how many you could sell. Just a thought.
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I will ask my brother in law Vin do want his name he's a barrister
Does he serve hot chocolate or only expresso?
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lol honestly and people think I talk a lot S@@@ on here about certain things,when are people going to be honest and say you can build a fantastic business window cleaning if you want to but it comes with problems like any other business. To say just go out and get 250000 worth of work and jobs a good'n just get 10'sholin monks to work it for you and you'll be fine is you won't have any day to day stress is Sh£&be at its best.
You're right.
They do think you talk a load of s**t on here.
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Narcissistic Personality Disorder or K N O B for short, attention seeking jumped up twerp with a superiority attitude. THAT is why this post was created. ;D Nothing to do with theoretical milestones etc etc. ::)roll Just the same old Braggart doing his thing! ::)roll
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
Oddly enough i'm with NWH on this one ;)
I think a lot of windies heading towards retirement (or not) think about their options and franchising is definitely an option.
You obviously have a lot of hands-on experience to give so why not write a short book or 'guide' on 'how to franchise your window cleaning business'. You could start from scratch and give all the processes, figures, legislations etc. Show how you started and how you did it. I for one would be willing to pay for that kind of info. Got to be worth £50 a pop. I wonder how many you could sell. Just a thought.
I think if you want all the answers it's more like £1500 a pop!
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
Oddly enough i'm with NWH on this one ;)
I think a lot of windies heading towards retirement (or not) think about their options and franchising is definitely an option.
You obviously have a lot of hands-on experience to give so why not write a short book or 'guide' on 'how to franchise your window cleaning business'. You could start from scratch and give all the processes, figures, legislations etc. Show how you started and how you did it. I for one would be willing to pay for that kind of info. Got to be worth £50 a pop. I wonder how many you could sell. Just a thought.
I think if you want all the answers it's more like £1500 a pop!
Click on Vin's link to find out more as if the truth be known was the main reason why he started this thread in the first place.
If he can do it anyone can but will cost you £1500 to find out how to do it,
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
Oddly enough i'm with NWH on this one ;)
I think a lot of windies heading towards retirement (or not) think about their options and franchising is definitely an option.
You obviously have a lot of hands-on experience to give so why not write a short book or 'guide' on 'how to franchise your window cleaning business'. You could start from scratch and give all the processes, figures, legislations etc. Show how you started and how you did it. I for one would be willing to pay for that kind of info. Got to be worth £50 a pop. I wonder how many you could sell. Just a thought.
If you search this forum hard enough all the info you'll ever need on employing, franchising etc is all there.
It's really not that difficult, youve already built a business, just keep going.
With the right research, planning, advertising, motivation and a bit of dosh behind you, it would be very easy to grow a large business, if that's what you want.
Personally I dislike franchises. Poor fools are buying into something that is essentially never actually theirs to keep, led to believe 'they are their own boss', when in fact they are being used and abused for profit just like any other employee.
Why do suckers pay for that, when they can be an employee for no upfront cost and have guys like 8 weekly paying them £100 a day.
Or better yet, just start their own bloody business.
I pity the fool...
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What I don't understand is that nobody has ever talked about the pitfalls with this just the positives,and Granville he is a proper Barrister Cambridge graduate I really don't know what his sister is doing with me TBH but there you go it must be my good looks opposite attract and all that 😘😎
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I would still like to know how it's all done and divided up so you can sell each bit off to a franchise and how you police it I'm not being funny I'm genuinely interested.
Oddly enough i'm with NWH on this one ;)
I think a lot of windies heading towards retirement (or not) think about their options and franchising is definitely an option.
You obviously have a lot of hands-on experience to give so why not write a short book or 'guide' on 'how to franchise your window cleaning business'. You could start from scratch and give all the processes, figures, legislations etc. Show how you started and how you did it. I for one would be willing to pay for that kind of info. Got to be worth £50 a pop. I wonder how many you could sell. Just a thought.
If you search this forum hard enough all the info you'll ever need on employing, franchising etc is all there.
It's really not that difficult, youve already built a business, just keep going.
With the right research, planning, advertising, motivation and a bit of dosh behind you, it would be very easy to grow a large business, if that's what you want.
Personally I dislike franchises. Poor fools are buying into something that is essentially never actually theirs to keep, led to believe 'they are their own boss', when in fact they are being used and abused for profit just like any other employee..
Why do suckers pay for that, when they can be an employee for no upfront cost and have guys like 8 weekly paying them £100 a day.
Or better yet, just start their own bloody business.
I pity the fool...
A bit of a short sighted and "blinkered" post to be honest.
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What I love about this forum, is having been a gobby opinionated MODDED myself on here in the past and now watching someone else doing it.
It's like watching people getting ped 😆😆😆
Keep going ;)
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Being a franchisee has its place. But you have to choose the right franchisor and be the right "type".
Mr "redundant" and keen "but nervous" fits the bill.
1. He is fearful of canvassing and this is the big one ... he is guaranteed customers.
2. He has never had to plan for the "feast" one month and "feathers" the next of self employment.
3. He has a lump sum of redundancy money and/or good credit.
4. He may not have the confidence to source his own kit.
5. He likes the "security" of someone "known" and "competent" to hold his hand.
6. He can ask for guidance on tax and accounts from the franchisor who will "know" someone to (hem hem) recommend.
7. If he's canny he'll will ask about and work out exit options that are mutually beneficial.
So he goes off to Vin - or whomsoever and hands over his dosh. He is reassured that he should buy a new (ish) van and he gets one on 2K down and credit.
Now I don't know what the deal is on any customers he gets himself - I believe an enlightened franchisor will have something in place where the can franchisee can keep what he gets himself as long as he is a franchisee.
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What I love about this forum, is having been a gobby opinionated MODDED myself on here in the past and now watching someone else doing it.
It's like watching people getting ped 😆😆😆
Keep going ;)
I'm struggling with the "past tense"? ;D
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Funny that Chum i was thinking the same.
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Being a franchisee has its place. But you have to choose the right franchisor and be the right "type".
Mr "redundant" and keen "but nervous" fits the bill.
1. He is fearful of canvassing and this is the big one ... he is guaranteed customers.
2. He has never had to plan for the "feast" one month and "feathers" the next of self employment.
3. He has a lump sum of redundancy money and/or good credit.
4. He may not have the confidence to source his own kit.
5. He likes the "security" of someone "known" and "competent" to hold his hand.
6. He can ask for guidance on tax and accounts from the franchisor who will "know" someone to (hem hem) recommend.
7. If he's canny he'll will ask about and work out exit options that are mutually beneficial.
So he goes off to Vin - or whomsoever and hands over his dosh. He is reassured that he should buy a new (ish) van and he gets one on 2K down and credit.
Now I don't know what the deal is on any customers he gets himself - I believe an enlightened franchisor will have something in place where the can franchisee can keep what he gets himself as long as he is a franchisee.
Point 6 is off the mark: I use an accountant found for me by my first franchisee. He did me a good deed indeed.
The van thing: Not really. I strongly recommend the guys to get a used van. The chaps only do about 5,000 miles a year so the spec of used and up to five years old is what I'd prefer them to get. They can keep the van automatically up to ten years old then it's up to me to approve further one year extensions which I'll do as long as the van still looks smart. I would consider it VERY bad advice to tell them to lease a van. I wouldn't do it myself; why would I suggest it to them? If anyone does need a leased van I'm going to be working like mad to sort out a deal for them as I have nothing arranged bar a provisional "yes" from a finance company.
And both of those (and the implication of ulterior motives behind them perhaps?) lead to another point. We don't make money from anything at all bar royalties. We don't make money from the franchise fee (and I'm happy to show franchisees the invoices that prove it) and we don't take a cut from anything else at all. If we source, say, preprinted envelopes or a new pump, we invoice the franchisee what we pay for them, not a penny more. No "Commissions", "management fees" or kickbacks. Keeps us focussed on royalties. And that means we're focussed on franchisee turnover.
As I never tire of saying, this is above my desk and I read it pretty much every day or two:
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/Onionman9999/IMG_9215_zpsiibt82sy.jpg) (http://s1359.photobucket.com/user/Onionman9999/media/IMG_9215_zpsiibt82sy.jpg.html)
Though it's a bit less blurred than it appears...
Vin
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By the way Granville, may I just thank you for "whomsoever"? As a grammar Nazi, I salute you.
Vin
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I think if you want all the answers it's more like £1500 a pop!
With a decent amount of time spent searching this forum, I suspect that every detail is on here. However, the £1,500 to Ian Lancaster is money well spent even if you only need (and you do) the franchise agreement - that'd be (conservatively) £8,000 ish from a solicitor.
Vin
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Vin you cannot stop someone from taking the work from you they are buying good will this is why legally it's very very difficult to distinguish the 2 facts stealing it or the customer preferring to use them instead of you,even if they talk the customer into going with them and telling you they don't want to use you anymore there is nothing you can do about it. This is why I wanted to know the fact about who's work it is,if it's yours it's yours to sell yes but it's only good will your selling not a tangiable product there's nothing pysically there to sell its a verbal agreement with the customer,you have a list of work-jobs we all do and we like to call them ours but tomorrow they might belong to the window cleaner down the road. You do have something but at anytime the customer can decide to have anyone they like to clean there Windows even if they are signed up with some sort of agreement they would find away of getting out of it like the money is no longer there for a window cleaner.
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The green eyed monsters on here are hilarious!
Ps LOL ;D
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What I love about this forum, is having been a gobby opinionated MODDED myself on here in the past and now watching someone else doing it.
It's like watching people getting ped 😆😆😆
Keep going ;)
I'm struggling with the "past tense"? ;D
Struggling with 'past tense' isn't the only thing though is it - you struggle to see your dick unless you're stood in front of the mirror.
;D ;D
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Funny that Chum i was thinking the same.
We all know what thinking has done for you in the past, so that remark can be happily discarded ;)
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Funny how you still remember me isn't it that's my aim in life for idiots like you to remember me,why would I be jealous the bloke has 250ks worth of work and he's still ending up with less than me at the end of the year lol lol rock on,time for bed I think not just for me either 🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼
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Remember you? You're like a bad rash. Always looking for a fight on here. Always got something to say. Always right. Cant let it go. You've been having a paddy on this thread alone continually since four o'clock yesterday afternoon. Thats nearly 9 hours. And you call me the idiot. MODDED
Who said anything about you being jealous anyway? Keep going - I love watching you guys on the sauce at night.
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Remember you? You're like a bad rash. Always looking for a fight on here. Always got something to say. Always right. Cant let it go. You've been having a paddy on this thread alone continually since four o'clock yesterday afternoon. Thats nearly 9 hours. And you call me the idiot. Tw@t.
Who said anything about you being jealous anyway? Keep going - I love watching you guys on the sauce at night.
LOL
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Vin, what would happen if a franchisee decided not to pay you royalties anymore and took all the customers himself?
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Since joining this forum, this has been my favourite post. That is all. As you were....
Welcome to the forum TRH.
Just wait until I start a thread. Popcorn and a beer are recommended.
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Hi Vin.
I have read about your accomplishment and would like to say that quite frankly, I find your self-promotion appalling. I mean seriously? A successful business man, proud of his hard work and achievements in making rapid growth in a sector where there are so many franchise lawyers, £600 a day window cleaners who could do exactly as you have done if they could be bothered and who do not pocket a bit of extra cash when asked to do a conservatory roof? You should be ashamed of yourself.
No one is interested in or jealous of your thread, that's why it's generated only 1400 views and 9 pages of comments.
Now go and sit on the naughty step, think about what you've done and let these experts who are locked to a single revenue stream income who turnover nearer £25k per year than £250k show you how it's done. Tut, tut.
I'm actually a little disappointed not to have been mentioned in the same bracket as this boasting, self-promoter. Does anyone dare me to start a thread about the week I've just had? ;D
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Funny how you still remember me isn't it that's my aim in life for idiots like you to remember me,why would I be jealous the bloke has 250ks worth of work and he's still ending up with less than me at the end of the year lol lol rock on,time for bed I think not just for me either 🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼
Maybe because he's planning for the day when his body is no longer up to the physical graft? Even if he doesn't want an income from it when he's older, he will still have a very sellable asset for a fat lump sum - rather more than anyone is likely to get for selling their one-man round. Also, that £250k turnover can become £500k or more if he wishes.
If I hadn't made bad financial errors earlier in my life (I left her eventually) or become too ill too work at one point, I would likely be debt-free and considering this sort of business myself. However, those past errors mean that I muddle along as a sole trader just doing my best. It's not such a bad life, but I'll probably be screwed when I'm older.
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Funny that Chum i was thinking the same.
We all know what thinking has done for you in the past, so that remark can be happily discarded ;)
Spat my coffee! Funny thing is though, I'll bet NWH is a lovely bloke in the flesh and not stupid at all. Then again.....
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I will ask my brother in law Vin do want his name he's a barrister
I've asked nicely twice now. I will ask you a final time, in what way was "he is avoiding TAX and VAT" "not a accusation against anyone"?
Vin
Actually, tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion is not. Because I'm in the process of going VAT registered it is slightly irksome that a competitor (I know you're not a competitor) could potentially have a turnover many times mine but not have to pay VAT.
I did seriously consider the Ian Lancaster package but for me it was too long term and the number of customers needed was huge. Four vans and 4 employees could easily turnover that which would see a £100,000 profit.
Still, I think it's a fantastic achievement to get to that level. I am a little way off that, but I wasn't serious about things until 2 years ago. And I've benefitted from your posts in the past and took comfort at times from the fact that my thoughts on the best way forward are broadly similar to yours.
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Maybe because he's planning for the day when his body is no longer up to the physical graft? Even if he doesn't want an income from it when he's older, he will still have a very sellable asset for a fat lump sum - rather more than anyone is likely to get for selling their one-man round. Also, that £250k turnover can become £500k or more if he wishes.
If I hadn't made bad financial errors earlier in my life (I left her eventually) or become too ill too work at one point, I would likely be debt-free and considering this sort of business myself. However, those past errors mean that I muddle along as a sole trader just doing my best. It's not such a bad life, but I'll probably be screwed when I'm older.
[/quote]
wow ... that's very weirdly very similar to my story .. ex wife financial mess ... illness effecting this job for a good 2 to 3 years started window cleaning2010 - depressed but not realised I was from about 2012 to early last year .. and yes had the just muddling along / ticking over situation. Decided I needed some business advice so sought out what are in my opinion the top 2 operators on this forum ( Smudger also on the list but wanted to talk to 2 directly opposite poles employing v franchising)
early 2015 realised I wanted / needed to grow this thing or jack in so spoke to Mr Lee Pryor about growing business thru employees Lee is a brilliant operator and I am still very grateful for the 90 minutes we spoke on the phone when I say we spoke it was actually Lee who spoke for about 99% of the conversation :) I simply listened and took it all in .. the man really is a force of nature when he gets going and one day he will be a millionaire no doubt
then I hassled Vin via email and several phone conversations .... again another brilliant operator who will also be a millionaire thru window cleaning though not sure that's his actual goal ? Vin was incredibly generous with his time and advice and information he happily shared ... like Lee another top guy.
so with this new found information gained early in March last year I went away and did ...... nothing ................... as I realised my head still wasn't in the right place so didn't want to start something I wouldn't finish ...... fast forward to late last year and now feeling a lot better and a lot more focused and motivated I made the decision to grow thru franchising as being 47 and wanting to move abroad for a few months a year from 55 onwards franchising will give me this with minimal input from me.
Next step is more customers so I can sell a franchise off and still be able to live as currently if I was to sell a franchise now I wouldn't have enough left over to pay my bills every month.
Also employed the services of an accountant from this financial tax year as selling a franchise with fAg packet figures just wont fly ... ordered a new much larger van so can increase my daily turnover (combo 400 litre tank to Toyota Proace with 800 litres) about to start a new customer drive (March to September) and will hopefully at the end of this year have enough customers to be able to sell my first franchise. Putting a whole host of other things in place to make my business better and more attractive and more profitable.
If I cant create a franchise immediately it wont be a problem to have those extra customers.
Im just glad in the dark place I was in at the time I spotted the end of the tunnel and yes the black dog may come calling again but this time I be ready for him 8)
plus for some light relief I can call into here.
Vin and Lee .... thankyou :)
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Hi Vin.
I have read about your accomplishment and would like to say that quite frankly, I find your self-promotion appalling. I mean seriously? A successful business man, proud of his hard work and achievements in making rapid growth in a sector where there are so many franchise lawyers, £600 a day window cleaners who could do exactly as you have done if they could be bothered and who do not pocket a bit of extra cash when asked to do a conservatory roof? You should be ashamed of yourself.
No one is interested in or jealous of your thread, that's why it's generated only 1400 views and 9 pages of comments.
Now go and sit on the naughty step, think about what you've done and let these experts who are locked to a single revenue stream income who turnover nearer £25k per year than £250k show you how it's done. Tut, tut.
I'm actually a little disappointed not to have been mentioned in the same bracket as this boasting, self-promoter. Does anyone dare me to start a thread about the week I've just had? ;D
The difference is that Perfect Windows doesn't BS. Ask him how many girls he has in the office to service £250k t/o.
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Oh gawd maybe some of the luvvies on here should spend valentines day in the hot tub together. ::)roll
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Maybe because he's planning for the day when his body is no longer up to the physical graft? Even if he doesn't want an income from it when he's older, he will still have a very sellable asset for a fat lump sum - rather more than anyone is likely to get for selling their one-man round. Also, that £250k turnover can become £500k or more if he wishes.
If I hadn't made bad financial errors earlier in my life (I left her eventually) or become too ill too work at one point, I would likely be debt-free and considering this sort of business myself. However, those past errors mean that I muddle along as a sole trader just doing my best. It's not such a bad life, but I'll probably be screwed when I'm older.
wow ... that's very weirdly very similar to my story .. ex wife financial mess ... illness effecting this job for a good 2 to 3 years started window cleaning2010 - depressed but not realised I was from about 2012 to early last year .. and yes had the just muddling along / ticking over situation. Decided I needed some business advice so sought out what are in my opinion the top 2 operators on this forum ( Smudger also on the list but wanted to talk to 2 directly opposite poles employing v franchising)
early 2015 realised I wanted / needed to grow this thing or jack in so spoke to Mr Lee Pryor about growing business thru employees Lee is a brilliant operator and I am still very grateful for the 90 minutes we spoke on the phone when I say we spoke it was actually Lee who spoke for about 99% of the conversation :) I simply listened and took it all in .. the man really is a force of nature when he gets going and one day he will be a millionaire no doubt
then I hassled Vin via email and several phone conversations .... again another brilliant operator who will also be a millionaire thru window cleaning though not sure that's his actual goal ? Vin was incredibly generous with his time and advice and information he happily shared ... like Lee another top guy.
so with this new found information gained early in March last year I went away and did ...... nothing ................... as I realised my head still wasn't in the right place so didn't want to start something I wouldn't finish ...... fast forward to late last year and now feeling a lot better and a lot more focused and motivated I made the decision to grow thru franchising as being 47 and wanting to move abroad for a few months a year from 55 onwards franchising will give me this with minimal input from me.
Next step is more customers so I can sell a franchise off and still be able to live as currently if I was to sell a franchise now I wouldn't have enough left over to pay my bills every month.
Also employed the services of an accountant from this financial tax year as selling a franchise with fAg packet figures just wont fly ... ordered a new much larger van so can increase my daily turnover (combo 400 litre tank to Toyota Proace with 800 litres) about to start a new customer drive (March to September) and will hopefully at the end of this year have enough customers to be able to sell my first franchise. Putting a whole host of other things in place to make my business better and more attractive and more profitable.
If I cant create a franchise immediately it wont be a problem to have those extra customers.
Im just glad in the dark place I was in at the time I spotted the end of the tunnel and yes the black dog may come calling again but this time I be ready for him 8)
plus for some light relief I can call into here.
Vin and Lee .... thankyou :)
Yes, I chat with Lee myself when I bump into him (he's local to me). I know he's doing pretty well but it's necessary to have some funds or borrowing power in order to expand. I have neither as it seems like I go to work just to service debt. I need to get on top of that before I think about any expansion beyond sole trader - and that's a few years away. At my age, it may not happen (58). Mind you, I have taken on a fair bit more work in recent months. I haven't yet felt much benefit from that - partly because it took me several times around before I could do it without a street map (slowed me down) and, although very few of them were first cleans, the previous guy wasn't so hot on frame cleaning so I had to treat them as such. Then came the shorter daylight. So, it's only now that I'm just beginning to see a little benefit, and that will improve now that the days are lengthening. I also have some irons in the fire for commercial work that can be cleaned out of hours, but it remains to be seen whether they will come to fruition.
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Oh gawd maybe some of the luvvies on here should spend valentines day in the hot tub together. ::)roll
Sorry to disappoint but I only have a cold water system.
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Oh gawd maybe some of the luvvies on here should spend valentines day in the hot tub together. ::)roll
Sorry to disappoint but I only have a cold water system.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Vin, what would happen if a franchisee decided not to pay you royalties anymore and took all the customers himself?
They'd be in breach of their franchise agreement. They are not allowed to service customers they had when they were franchisees.* So it would end up in court.
Vin
* Note to the unwary/weirdly obsessed (not you, Tom). You do need to read the following sentences. Maybe more than once before posting. This is not saying that the customer is restricted as to whom they can ask to clean their windows - no-one can do that. What it's saying is that the franchisee is not permitted to have them as a customer, so if they were asked, they would have to say "no". I think that's pretty clear and unambiguous, so it'll be hard to repaint it as "but if the customer asks the ex-franchisee it'll be OK". Let's see.
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By the way, if I ever had to take the franchise agreement out of its dusty box and even look at it, I'd consider it a failure. The aim is to keep the franchisees as happy as it's possible for them to be so major issues never form.
We (for it is "we", the wife and I) also spend a lot of time making sure potential franchisees are the right sort of people. We don't pick the first person who walks in off the street. I'm sure you can see that one of the effects of only making money from royalties rather than initial fees is that there is an incentive for us to be very choosy.
Vin
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PW, glad it is going how you wanted.
I find it odd some of the vitrol comments that come up on here when someone is doing well, to me the whole point of a vocation like being a self employed windy is to live your life more on your own terms than someone elses, and I think this carrear makes it very possible.
Why people care or worry so much about how others are going about it makes me laugh. Do it the way that suits you and sod anyone elses idea of how it should be done.
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Not sure if I've ever said this but there are times when I turn to the wife and point out that if I were just cleaning windows life would be a doddle. Days when I just clean, come home and organise tomorrow's work are a delight.
I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to stick with cleaning as a one-man band. It's the best job I've ever had.
Vin
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Also, that £250k turnover can become £500k or more if he wishes.
Looking forward to the reaction to that post. Three years with a splash of luck and a following wind.
Vin
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Also, that £250k turnover can become £500k or more if he wishes.
Looking forward to the reaction to that post. Three years with a splash of luck and a following wind.
Vin
There's no reason for there to be a reaction really. The only limit is the number of viable (i.e. accessible) properties that are within the particular travel-to-work area that you regard as a reasonable imit. Even then, there is the potential to start from another base where the franchisees won't overlap with existing work. That last part could be more difficult though unless you have a manager(s) in place to run it. It probably wouldn't be necessary either as there ought to be plenty of work to live well on while expanding from your own area.
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Also, that £250k turnover can become £500k or more if he wishes.
Looking forward to the reaction to that post. Three years with a splash of luck and a following wind.
Vin
I suspect the reaction wouldn't be based on any monetary figure, or how successful you may or not may have been by that time but rather whether or not you're still belittling others less successful, oozing a superiority attitude, using silly innuendos like "leaflets don't work" etc and generally just being a big headed K N O B! ;)
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It seems that a few on here are confused on very simple business terminology and mathematics. Vin does not have a 250k turnover. He has a 50k turnover. He does not pay vat as his turnover has not reached the vat threshold. His franchisees collectively have a 250k turnover and individually have not reached the vat threshold. Anyway why this is important I have no idea. Vins vat dealing are between him his accountant and hmrc. The fact is that vin has done very well in creating a franchise network and is an inspiration for those who choose to do something similar. If anyone is interested in doing something similar themselves then the best person to talk to is Ian Lancaster. He will answer any questions u have on this subject.
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For someone who's newish to the business, I've found this topic informative, inspiring and idiotic in equal measure. I've seen your name mentioned before Solar Steve, so I'll look forward to something just as enlightening!
Since joining this forum, this has been my favourite post. That is all. As you were....
Welcome to the forum TRH.
Just wait until I start a thread. Popcorn and a beer are recommended.
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He's renting work out big news, oh but hang on he's looked up franchising on wikipedia
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That is all it is.
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He's renting work out big news, oh but hang on he's looked up franchising on wikipedia
I have just looked it up on WP, Cumbucket (you're quite clearly the same person under two logins), and it says "Franchising is the practice of the right to use a firm's business model and brand for a prescribed period of time."
Looks like I am franchising then. Thank you for helping to clarify that! Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
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@Vin
Just skimmed through the posts following your reply to me and come back to mention - if you check my point about a van I said "new (ish)" but it did cross a line ending.
I take your points about e.g. accountant referrals and skimming off of setting up charges.
May I ask - if a franchisee has a customer walk up to him, does he have free rein to negotiate the price and does he keep 100% at least as long as he is a franchisee?
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He's renting work out big news, oh but hang on he's looked up franchising on wikipedia
I have just looked it up on WP, Cumbucket (you're quite clearly the same person under two logins), and it says "Franchising is the practice of the right to use a firm's business model and brand for a prescribed period of time."
Looks like I am franchising then. Thank you for helping to clarify that! Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
Well that's where you're wrong Vincent and Admin will assist you in clarifying that. Why would I need Two logins? I'm perfectly capable and satisfied with One and clearly not hesitant to make my feelings and observations about you clear. ;D
Haven't a clue who Mick Barber is and NWH has been posting on here for years- as have I under various user names.
To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things. ;) :-*
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@Vin
Just skimmed through the posts following your reply to me and come back to mention - if you check my point about a van I said "new (ish)" but it did cross a line ending.
I take your points about e.g. accountant referrals and skimming off of setting up charges.
May I ask - if a franchisee has a customer walk up to him, does he have free rein to negotiate the price and does he keep 100% at least as long as he is a franchisee?
All our pricing is menu-based and, in general, we stick to it unless a house is well off the norm. However, that decision is entirely up to the franchisee.
Regardless of how a customer comes in, royalties are due. If that seems harsh, the logic is that the only reason someone even sees the guy out working is because they are a franchisee in the first place. If it wasn't for the franchise the work wouldn't have come in.
Vin
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blah, blah, blah...
To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things. ;) :-*
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
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@Vin
Just skimmed through the posts following your reply to me and come back to mention - if you check my point about a van I said "new (ish)" but it did cross a line ending.
I take your points about e.g. accountant referrals and skimming off of setting up charges.
May I ask - if a franchisee has a customer walk up to him, does he have free rein to negotiate the price and does he keep 100% at least as long as he is a franchisee?
All our pricing is menu-based and, in general, we stick to it unless a house is well off the norm. However, that decision is entirely up to the franchisee.
Regardless of how a customer comes in, royalties are due. If that seems harsh, the logic is that the only reason someone even sees the guy out working is because they are a franchisee in the first place. If it wasn't for the franchise the work wouldn't have come in.
Vin
I see where you're coming from, but that does seem a little harsh to me. I know one guy who used to let people keep 100% of the first clean, because they can be far more time consuming. After that though, the work was passed on up the hierarchy. I suppose it was just a way of acknowledging that first cleans take longer, and a little encouragement to be honest about it.
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I'm still wondering if any franchisor on here has had a franchisee decide to go on their own and try taking their work?
The reason I'm keen to know is that I will more thank likely franchise my business, so a little light shed on potential pitfalls would be a help?
I understand about the franchise agreement being signed etc but has it actually ever happened to anyone where they have been in a position to use it? If not then great. If yes then maybe it is open to abuse and bases really need to be covered if you would lose in court or if it was too much hassle to go court. If that's the case then it is really down to good will and hoping that the franchisee behaves.
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blah, blah, blah...
To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things. ;) :-*
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
So you keep saying but you still reply to my observations. ;)
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Hi Tom
I know of one that has lost one and another lost two.
Any management situation wether it be franchising, renting, employment etc can result in people falling out through misunderstandings & resentment.
The clause that covers this is "non-competing" which means the operator regardless of relationship (see above) is restricted geographically for a set period to operate in the same manner as before, however in order for this to stand any chance of success it would need to be deemed as "fair" ie "not within 6 miles for 1 year" rather than "not with UK ever".
I believe it is easier to enforce this through employment contracts rather than the other options, a judge would no doubt be reluctant to stop a persons livelihood regardless of the situation and a franchisor would require an injunction to enforce the non competing clause costing around £10k.
In most cases it's probably best to let them walk, not all clients leave and you'd be better channelling the funds & energy into moving forwards.
Most important of all you would hopefully learn how to improve the system to create such value that prevents such things from reoccurring, however I'm not sure any system is full proof, if you decide to grow you just need to work out which system suits you best and hang on for a bumpy ride!
HTH
John
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blah, blah, blah...
To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things. ;) :-*
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
So you keep saying but you still reply to my observations. ;)
I haven't replied to any of your observations (observations? Personal insults, actually) except with my standard reply. Unless you mean the reply I made to "micky barber". I did respond to that. Perhaps that's the observation of yours to which you're referring.
Vin
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The main thing I've noticed when this is talked about is that when the topic of who's buying into this crops up the answer is you must be sure they are the right kind of people before you let them but into it,I think what that means in the kindest possible way is to make sure they are not to ambitious and to try a sniff out the ones who you think may cause problems like running off with the work because deep down the cost and the hassle of getting it back and policing it all if they are ripping you off is almost impossible to deal with. How on earth could you ever know if they are doing a house without telling you if they said that customer was lost from you yourself but they carried on cleaning it,IMO you are being very very careful who you sell this to because anyone with half a brain would be able to rip you off. Ok you threaten them with legal action it will cost you money in legal fees and like I say the Hassle involved would be a nightmare,all the comments on here are pro this but I would love to know the truth with people that have had the other end of the crappy stick.
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blah, blah, blah...
To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things. ;) :-*
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
So you keep saying but you still reply to my observations. ;)
I haven't replied to any of your observations (observations? Personal insults, actually) except with my standard reply. Unless you mean the reply I made to "micky barber". I did respond to that. Perhaps that's the observation of yours to which you're referring.
Vin
These are not personal insults, they are genuine observations- to which you more often than not respond to. ;)
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I have known people get ripped off from workers when they actually work for them lol,how and why wouldn't they do that if they were out on there own alday away from you,I think anyone who thinks this does not or won't happen is mistaken. There are two sides to this story we have only heard one side of it in everything written about it I haven't heard 1 horror story.
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Hi NWH
The same applies to any system be it franchise, employment, renting etc, there are many happy franchisee's, employee's and subcontractors with "full brains" operating throughout the world in all manner of businesses, likewise there are many that are not happy too. I think it all boils down to what suits each person, for some that will be employment, others subcontract or franchise and entrepreneurs that go it alone,
John
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No doubt there are plenty of horror stories wether it be franchising, employment or subcontracting, it's rarely an easy ride once you embark on expansion, management of people and their expectations appears more an art rather than science.
I have no doubt some on here have experienced all manner of difficulties and set backs along the way, the important thing is to learn from it and move on.
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Hi John,I agree but this industry is unique with cash changing hands etc on a daily basis you would have to be a certain kind of person to do it long term hence we need to find the right people-person to be a franchisee. People with a submissive personality comes to mind because anyone who knows how window cleaning works once they are up and running and gradually picking up work and building there own little round on the side will chuck it in and go on there own even if it means forsaking he 8-10 i they paid in the first place.
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Even all county window cleaning had enough and he employed he had 8 2 man teams out on the road.
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Hi Tom
I know of one that has lost one and another lost two.
Any management situation wether it be franchising, renting, employment etc can result in people falling out through misunderstandings & resentment.
The clause that covers this is "non-competing" which means the operator regardless of relationship (see above) is restricted geographically for a set period to operate in the same manner as before, however in order for this to stand any chance of success it would need to be deemed as "fair" ie "not within 6 miles for 1 year" rather than "not with UK ever".
I believe it is easier to enforce this through employment contracts rather than the other options, a judge would no doubt be reluctant to stop a persons livelihood regardless of the situation and a franchisor would require an injunction to enforce the non competing clause costing around £10k.
In most cases it's probably best to let them walk, not all clients leave and you'd be better channelling the funds & energy into moving forwards.
Most important of all you would hopefully learn how to improve the system to create such value that prevents such things from reoccurring, however I'm not sure any system is full proof, if you decide to grow you just need to work out which system suits you best and hang on for a bumpy ride!
HTH
John
Hi John
Thanks for the reply. That's what I was after. As NWH said there must be a story of it happening to someone. And as you said it would cost a lot of money to go to court so best to leave it, learn and hope it doesn't happen again.
So really the possibility is that I could build a round for someone and after a while they could just take the customers for themself, I could take them to court for breach of contract and may win, however the cost and time (more cost) involved makes that a worthless task, I'd be better off leaving it. But that means a franchisee could 'take' £30k of 'my' work and I would just have to write that off. That's a lot of effort I have out in to lose.
Of course as you say anything can happen in any situation of growth so you have to be prepared as it is not all roses.
Thanks for the clarification though I just wondered if the franchisor did take them to court, win and if it was all worthwhile.
Tom
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blah, blah, blah...
To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things. ;) :-*
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
Vin
Was someone bullied in there younger years Vinny???
You sound like the sticks and stones kid!!
Your opinion is important to me
Your opinion is important to me
Blaaah blaaah blaah blaah blaah
Blaaaaaaaah blaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Have you learnt how to use a squeegie yet??
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Selecting the "right" person is always the key but you don't always get it right, my favourite quote on the subject was "employ on personality, look after the good ones and get rid of the bad", he employs over 1500 people handling cash on a daily basis, in some cases ex offenders, it's run purely on trust and he dismisses around 1 per week for theft, even so he wouldn't have it any other way.
It's not a great analogy as it's retail therefore the barrier to entry (setting up on your own) is quite high but I think there's a lot to learn from this approach.
The assumption that anyone and therefore I assume "everyone" is implied would try or even wish to go it alone after a period of time is simply an assumption, time will tell but I'm sure if treated wth respect, supported throughout and provided with value then no doubt a great team/business could be built.
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Hi Tom
Yes, as in any structure the operator could simply walk and retain some/all of the round, they would risk a potential lawsuit, forgo any help and support provided by the franchisor and would need to replace any lost business.
It may be worthwhile it depends on the relationship between each party.
The cases to which I referred did not go to court, all three operators lost in excess of 30% of their business which continued to be covered by the franchise, one operator eventually gave up, another will soon do the same and the other continues to operate as before but without the cost or support.
John
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Treated with respect or stroked for there benefit more like.
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The main thing I've noticed when this is talked about is that when the topic of who's buying into this crops up the answer is you must be sure they are the right kind of people before you let them but into it,I think what that means in the kindest possible way is to make sure they are not to ambitious and to try a sniff out the ones who you think may cause problems like running off with the work because deep down the cost and the hassle of getting it back and policing it all if they are ripping you off is almost impossible to deal with. How on earth could you ever know if they are doing a house without telling you if they said that customer was lost from you yourself but they carried on cleaning it,IMO you are being very very careful who you sell this to because anyone with half a brain would be able to rip you off. Ok you threaten them with legal action it will cost you money in legal fees and like I say the Hassle involved would be a nightmare,all the comments on here are pro this but I would love to know the truth with people that have had the other end of the crappy stick.
I reckon if you recruited franchisees they would be likely be thieves & untrustworthy in the same way that those you employed were thieves and untrustworthy. You start by thinking that's what people are like and you end up with people like that. I am interviewing my second employee next week. He's currently a postman but wants to earn more money, which he will with me. He's a decent and honest bloke. There are literally millions of decent and honest blokes out there. They don't all want to steal your money. But if that's all you expect, that's all you'll get.
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So all the reasons I gave up on here are still in full flow I see. Very dissapointing really.
Vin, you dont need a pat on the back from any of the MODDED for bad language on here, your doing extreamly well and far better than they ever will.
My advice is just grow your business and keep it to yourself. Thats what I do now. why help them anyway with info your have gained. You simply dont need to and have nothing to gain anyway.
Just keep going mate and keep the bigger picture of your business to yourself. This forum is really only good for day to day stuff like the latest brush or pole. Its poop for bigger discussions on growing a substantial bussiness simply because so few on here have. as a result they just want to cut you down.
Can everyone just step back and realise Vin has gone from nothing, to within 5 years a quater of a million in turnover, multiple francisees with 2 more in the pipeline! So you guys who have all been going much longer and achieved basically nothing in comparison feel you can act like this simply because you dont understand or agree? Dear oh dear.
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There's another factor at work.
A potential franchisee for us will have worked at the same place for several years and will have a stable employment history. They will have had the foresight to have saved money, enough for the franchise, the van and to cover their outgoings while we build the round. People like that are inherently less likely to be untrustworthy/thieves. Add into that my wife's ability to judge people far better than I ever will and it's possible to trust people.
Vin
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I will ask my brother in law Vin do want his name he's a barrister
Does he serve hot chocolate or only expresso?
Well, I got the joke anyway :)
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I will ask my brother in law Vin do want his name he's a barrister
Does he serve hot chocolate or only expresso?
Well, I got the joke anyway :)
Just seen this. Excellent. ;D
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There's another factor at work.
A potential franchisee for us will have worked at the same place for several years and will have a stable employment history. They will have had the foresight to have saved money, enough for the franchise, the van and to cover their outgoings while we build the round. People like that are inherently less likely to be untrustworthy/thieves. Add into that my wife's ability to judge people far better than I ever will and it's possible to trust people.
Vin
Sure thing. I don't know why some on here need to snipe. It's not as if you have gone and taken their work or caused them problems.
It's just jealousy mate and I think you would be better off ignoring them.
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8 weekly I really rub you up the wrong way don't I your like a fat woman that gets annoyed when she sees a younger more attractive one arnt you lol I annoys you because I don't come on here stroking people's egos,you are in the infancy of employing people if you haven't had idiots and people try and take you for a ride you can't have been doing it long enough pal. You will remember me one day when you get taken for a fool,wait until someone who works for you says he's got to leave early today coz it's his turn to pick to kids up or his over bearing Mrs try's to run his life in and out of work.
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Vin, at the end of the day, whether you've built it up to 250K or 500K or 750K (other multiples also work well) it will be like one of those films you see where the guy says "we'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%". ;D
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I suspect the reaction wouldn't be based on any monetary figure, or how successful you may or not may have been by that time but rather whether or not you're still belittling others less successful, oozing a superiority attitude, using silly innuendos like "leaflets don't work" etc and generally just being a big headed K N O B! ;)
My last words ever to you:
I defy you to find a single post where I "belittle someone less successful". You probably haven't noticed it (because your style is very much to attack the person) but if I say something on here I address it to what someone's said rather than to the person who said it. I may disagree with people but bar you, I can't think of anyone I've personally attacked on this forum. I'm sure it's possible but it's not my style in any conversation,, online or off.
You, I do attack, quite gently, but you might have noticed that I didn't start the argument you've chosen to pick with me over the past six or eight months. I've had a quick trawl through our exchanges and there was a point where you suddenly decided to attack me. Seems to be your style, which is fine with me. You must be very proud of your personal attacks on here. It won't make you happy; hatred burns you up in the end.
Anyways, I won't be defending myself against you in future so make sure you get your punches in.
Love you forever,
Vin
PS "Leaflets don't work" is rather clearly a joke. You might have noticed that people have even referred to it jokingly in this thread. You need to lighten up, go out, smell the roses and give up the keyboard warrior act for a while.
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Still no one comes on here to give examples of it going wrong then,blimey there's more idiots out there to rent work to than I thought I'm seriously gonna look into it Monday lol.
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WOW £250,032 yearly turnover leave some windows for everyone else to clean.
Debt list for all the rounds must be around the 5k mark :o
Keep up the great work Paul
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Vin give information of how you do it the nuts and bolts prehaps you may get some serious answers.
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WOW £250,032 yearly turnover leave some windows for everyone else to clean.
Debt list for all the rounds must be around the 5k mark :o
Keep up the great work Paul
You must be joking you could times that by 3-4 at least.
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Still no one comes on here to give examples of it going wrong then,blimey there's more idiots out there to rent work to than I thought I'm seriously gonna look into it Monday lol.
It does go wrong ian had one that he had to take action against if my memory is correct
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=171909.msg1450585#msg1450585
We've got franchisees who have been with us since 2006. We had one who decided to break his contract and try to carry on cleaning our customers without paying any royalties. We took him to court and after about 18 months got a CCJ against him for damages and outstanding royalties due. He has now disappeared off the face of the earth and we are in the process of recouping our lost customers. We make it very clear from the start to all applicants that they can never own their businesses outright. We tell them if they want to 'go it alone', they can either sell or resign their contracts and then go and start from scratch somewhere at least 10 miles from our area. They are forbidden under the terms of the contract they signed to contact anyone they know to be customers of ours regardless of how far away they are.
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As I've said before the hassle you had if the wrong person comes along I'm not saying it can't make you money,you can't stop anyone working under say his wife's name or his best m8s you cannot pysically stop someone earning a living all it will do is stop him doing it in his name.
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As I've said before the hassle you had if the wrong person comes along I'm not saying it can't make you money,you can't stop anyone working under say his wife's name or his best m8s you cannot pysically stop someone earning a living all it will do is stop him doing it in his name.
Whats wrong in operating under a pseudonym?
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Still no one comes on here to give examples of it going wrong then,blimey there's more idiots out there to rent work to than I thought I'm seriously gonna look into it Monday lol.
John Willan gave an account of three franchisees who decided to break the agreement.
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I'm off to the pub. Less tripe talked there.
Vin
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Nothing but if you are banned from running your own business you can still do exactly the same thing only on paper it's not your business,we took a roofer to court and was the only ones to get an order over his property when it went on sale. He got issued with CCJ but it didn't effect him working he just ceased trading in his own name.
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8 weekly I really rub you up the wrong way don't I your like a fat woman that gets annoyed when she sees a younger more attractive one arnt you lol I annoys you because I don't come on here stroking people's egos,you are in the infancy of employing people if you haven't had idiots and people try and take you for a ride you can't have been doing it long enough pal. You will remember me one day when you get taken for a fool,wait until someone who works for you says he's got to leave early today coz it's his turn to pick to kids up or his over bearing Mrs try's to run his life in and out of work.
No, you don't rub me up the wrong way. But you always attack people that get better prices/more customers/better staff and will either never accept that they are telling the truth or else just point out all the things that went wrong for you and assume that they will go wrong for someone else. You are a "glass half empty" person.
It's quite possible that I will make mistakes in hiring people and things won't always be perfect (my one member of staff is causing some issues at the moment because he's going through a breakup), but it's just an issue at the moment and we will get through it. it's annoying, but it won't cloud my views on things and make me aggressively assume everything and everyone is rubbish.
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Vin, do your franchisee's operate there own areas, or do they overlap? When work came in, would you assign it to a franchisee whom area it is, or would if they overlap, who gets it?
Also to everyone who have shared the pearls of their wisdom, thanks. It really does help and motivate (some of) us further down the food chain!
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Vin,
As you know, my last post was very tongue in cheek, but here are my thoughts in a serious vain:
Firstly, congratulations. You have every reason to be proud of yourself. It can't be easy to run a business of your type, as I am finding out. Franchising is an avenue I am exploring and it will be worldwide, not just UK-based. So well done you.
I would not divulge information on here to anyone about your business model. Even 'genuine' phone calls are not as genuine as they seem sometimes, as I found out just this week. SOME people are very selfish and will use deceit to get information. However, as you know and as some people on here have trouble believing, there are trustworthy people out there. It is a case of sifting the wheat from the chaff.
To the doubters of Vin's professionalism, franchise laws are very tight and I have every reason to believe it is a 100% legitimate business in every way. Franchise lawyers are paid a fortune for good reason, to professionalise and legally protect every party in the franchise model. Vin as the franchisor and each franchisee will be protected by law. This costs time, money and emotion. But the payback must be great.
Vin, I look forward to your £500k post.....
May it come soon. :)
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Solar Steve I think I should point out that there are no laws with regard to Franchising at all.
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8 weekly I really rub you up the wrong way don't I your like a fat woman that gets annoyed when she sees a younger more attractive one arnt you lol I annoys you because I don't come on here stroking people's egos,you are in the infancy of employing people if you haven't had idiots and people try and take you for a ride you can't have been doing it long enough pal. You will remember me one day when you get taken for a fool,wait until someone who works for you says he's got to leave early today coz it's his turn to pick to kids up or his over bearing Mrs try's to run his life in and out of work.
No, you don't rub me up the wrong way. But you always attack people that get better prices/more customers/better staff and will either never accept that they are telling the truth or else just point out all the things that went wrong for you and assume that they will go wrong for someone else. You are a "glass half empty" person.
It's quite possible that I will make mistakes in hiring people and things won't always be perfect (my one member of staff is causing some issues at the moment because he's going through a breakup), but it's just an issue at the moment and we will get through it. it's annoying, but it won't cloud my views on things and make me aggressively assume everything and everyone is rubbish.
I don't attack you I point out what has happened to me and many many others I've been doing this job quiet a while now and I hear some playing a trumpet about how well they are doing when TBH they ain't doing anything out of the ordinary m8,I have had tears in the van with em them telling me all there relationship problems you name it,at times your a marriage guidance counsellor. You have said in the past I don't treat them well or pay them enough which is not true,the majority of people going for a window cleaning job do not take it seriously they think it's on the same level of knocking on doors and asking to clean the homeowners car lol,what I mean is they don't think or comprehend it could possibly be a proper job.
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eh ???
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NWH is right regarding staff..
Its rare to find a good 1 and if he is that good he soon realises how he can do it himself..
2 in a van will always start well then they do a few con roofs without telling you then it escilates to they have the walk ups for themselfs then before you know it they have built a full round up behind your back..
Any employers who think this isnt happening are deluded.
Answere this. If you was working for someone for £10 an hour and your at the last house of the day where a lady opposite asks if you can clean her con roof for£80 which is what your days pay is! Tell me you wouldnt clean it without telling your boss!! Then from how easy that was to get away with before you know it you are being taken for a ride. Had it happen to me so many times, i just sub work now and.except that any that get picked up and add on jobs wont be mine... mainly commercial now so it isnt an issue but when domestic with 3 vans out i was being taken for a fool! 2 gay guys i had working stitched me right up saying jobs had cancaled and picked up jobs on the side near existing customers etc etc and when i told them to f off they approached all the customers they had been cleaning for 2 years saying im the bad guy bullying them off the round and i lost nearly 50 percent of customers to them and nothing i could do.. i took it on the chin and decided to never employ again.
Maybe with a franchise aggreement things would have been different! Who knows.
You want a guy with slight learning difficulties or who is simple and honest that customers can like and you can trust! Clever dicks that make out they are better than sliced bread end up being no better than burnt toast and if they were better than sliced bread then why would they be employed window cleaners??
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I know a fella who franchises work out. Works round Tiverton way. He owns two properties. One in Spain, spends a week month there.
If anyone tried to do the dirty on him they would regret it.
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I think most windies with learning difficulties frequent this forum.
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You want a guy with slight learning difficulties who is simple
NWH has his own round allegedly.
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;D ;D
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I think most windies with learning difficulties frequent this forum.
Yeah. And the most "speshul" become moderators.
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You want a guy with slight learning difficulties who is simple
NWH has his own round allegedly.
And you want someone who is not taking days off; spending too much time on the angry bus.
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I'm doing alright thanks better than someone who started this going by the figures lol 🍾🍾🍾🍾
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NWH is right regarding staff..
Its rare to find a good 1 and if he is that good he soon realises how he can do it himself..
2 in a van will always start well then they do a few con roofs without telling you then it escilates to they have the walk ups for themselfs then before you know it they have built a full round up behind your back..
Any employers who think this isnt happening are deluded.
Answere this. If you was working for someone for £10 an hour and your at the last house of the day where a lady opposite asks if you can clean her con roof for£80 which is what your days pay is! Tell me you wouldnt clean it without telling your boss!! Then from how easy that was to get away with before you know it you are being taken for a ride. Had it happen to me so many times, i just sub work now and.except that any that get picked up and add on jobs wont be mine... mainly commercial now so it isnt an issue but when domestic with 3 vans out i was being taken for a fool! 2 gay guys i had working stitched me right up saying jobs had cancaled and picked up jobs on the side near existing customers etc etc and when i told them to f off they approached all the customers they had been cleaning for 2 years saying im the bad guy bullying them off the round and i lost nearly 50 percent of customers to them and nothing i could do.. i took it on the chin and decided to never employ again.
Maybe with a franchise aggreement things would have been different! Who knows.
You want a guy with slight learning difficulties or who is simple and honest that customers can like and you can trust! Clever dicks that make out they are better than sliced bread end up being no better than burnt toast and if they were better than sliced bread then why would they be employed window cleaners??
Very good point Mick, which I can personally vouch for as once upon a time I was an employee of a large cleaning company (£1 million turnover) and I'm not ashamed to admit I took some jobs on the side.
Long story short...
A customer asked me for a quote, on behalf of the company i was working for, to clean their roof, gutters, fascias, soffits and full conservatory. I was trusted by said company to give out quotes as I was usually bang on, but as this was a big job I rang the 'boss' first.
He asked my opinion, which I gave, a price of £700 and a full days work for 2 of us. I even offered to do it that Saturday as I knew we were busy.
His response shocked me. 'Tell her £1500 and the 2 of you try and get it done in half a day'.
I told him there's no way she"ll go for that, she had the same work done 2 years ago for £500!. Plus we"ll never do it in half a day, the roof will take that long alone!
His reply was "tell her its £1500 but as she's a good customer we'll knock £500 off and do it for a grand. If she doesn't like that then f@ck her, she can get the pikeys to do it for £500".
So you want to know what this pikey right here did..
I put the phone down and said "yes sure madam il be able to the work this Saturday for you, for £500 ;D ;D
Went back to the office that day and told him she said no to the price.
We parted ways shortly after that, the words chumbucket use to describe vin basically describe this guy to a tee. The greed and arrogance of the man made me want to climb over his desk and headbutt him every time I went back to that office.
In the time I was there the work loads grew and grew, so did his prices. We started off doing around 18-20 houses a day, the 2 of us, with a few add ons a week. By the time I left it was around 28 a day, average house price was £18, often with add ons, gutters , con roofs etc on top but our wages stayed the same (£80 a day).
When we ever suggested extra money for all the extra work we were doing his response was always the same, " if you don't like it I can easily find someone else who"ll work for £80 a day".
I guess my 'bitterness' towards some on here stems from that experience, Iv seen first hand how nice guys can become complete bell ends when they grow to a certain a level. No respect for anyone other then themselves and their bank balance. Having this attitude will almost certainly open up the possibility of their employees going behind their back.
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I'm not taking a swipe at you Mick because you seem cool, i think you just got unlucky, on the other hand I think vin has shown 'glimpses' of this attitude.
2 posts created in a matter of days, one titled 'customers rolling in', the other '£250,032', just ooze a sense narcissism.
Those who think that 'highly' of themselves normally look down on others, you know, the ones that are actually earning them the money.
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NWH is right regarding staff..
Its rare to find a good 1 and if he is that good he soon realises how he can do it himself..
2 in a van will always start well then they do a few con roofs without telling you then it escilates to they have the walk ups for themselfs then before you know it they have built a full round up behind your back..
Any employers who think this isnt happening are deluded.
Answere this. If you was working for someone for £10 an hour and your at the last house of the day where a lady opposite asks if you can clean her con roof for£80 which is what your days pay is! Tell me you wouldnt clean it without telling your boss!! Then from how easy that was to get away with before you know it you are being taken for a ride. Had it happen to me so many times, i just sub work now and.except that any that get picked up and add on jobs wont be mine... mainly commercial now so it isnt an issue but when domestic with 3 vans out i was being taken for a fool! 2 gay guys i had working stitched me right up saying jobs had cancaled and picked up jobs on the side near existing customers etc etc and when i told them to f off they approached all the customers they had been cleaning for 2 years saying im the bad guy bullying them off the round and i lost nearly 50 percent of customers to them and nothing i could do.. i took it on the chin and decided to never employ again.
Maybe with a franchise aggreement things would have been different! Who knows.
You want a guy with slight learning difficulties or who is simple and honest that customers can like and you can trust! Clever dicks that make out they are better than sliced bread end up being no better than burnt toast and if they were better than sliced bread then why would they be employed window cleaners??
Very good point Mick, which I can personally vouch for as once upon a time I was an employee of a large cleaning company (£1 million turnover) and I'm not ashamed to admit I took some jobs on the side.
Long story short...
A customer asked me for a quote, on behalf of the company i was working for, to clean their roof, gutters, fascias, soffits and full conservatory. I was trusted by said company to give out quotes as I was usually bang on, but as this was a big job I rang the 'boss' first.
He asked my opinion, which I gave, a price of £700 and a full days work for 2 of us. I even offered to do it that Saturday as I knew we were busy.
His response shocked me. 'Tell her £1500 and the 2 of you try and get it done in half a day'.
I told him there's no way she"ll go for that, she had the same work done 2 years ago for £500!. Plus we"ll never do it in half a day, the roof will take that long alone!
His reply was "tell her its £1500 but as she's a good customer we'll knock £500 off and do it for a grand. If she doesn't like that then f@ck her, she can get the pikeys to do it for £500".
So you want to know what this pikey right here did..
I put the phone down and said "yes sure madam il be able to the work this Saturday for you, for £500 ;D ;D
Went back to the office that day and told him she said no to the price.
We parted ways shortly after that, the words chumbucket use to describe vin basically describe this guy to a tee. The greed and arrogance of the man made me want to climb over his desk and headbutt him every time I went back to that office.
In the time I was there the work loads grew and grew, so did his prices. We started off doing around 18-20 houses a day, the 2 of us, with a few add ons a week. By the time I left it was around 28 a day, average house price was £18, often with add ons, gutters , con roofs etc on top but our wages stayed the same (£80 a day).
When we ever suggested extra money for all the extra work we were doing his response was always the same, " if you don't like it I can easily find someone else who"ll work for £80 a day".
I guess my 'bitterness' towards some on here stems from that experience, Iv seen first hand how nice guys can become complete bell ends when they grow to a certain a level. No respect for anyone other then themselves and their bank balance. Having this attitude will almost certainly open up the possibility of their employees going behind their back.
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I'm not taking a swipe at you Mick because you seem cool, i think you just got unlucky, on the other hand I think vin has shown 'glimpses' of this attitude.
2 posts created in a matter of days, one titled 'customers rolling in', the other '£250,032', just ooze a sense narcissism.
Those who think that 'highly' of themselves normally look down on others, you know, the ones that are actually earning them the money.
Vin doesn't employ, the franchisees get 80% and I'm pretty sure they get 100% of add ons. Apart from that though, great post. ???
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Lot's of articulate replies and lots of less than articulate. However, most people seem to be attacking Vin and offering the pitfalls of employing giving their bad experiences of employing. Few seem to notice Vin is franchising which is different to straightforward employing. It has a different contract for a start giving advantages to both sides. The franchisee knows what he's getting into (it's written in a contract). By supplying the work Vin can also predict what he's going to earn from each franchisee. It wouldn't pay to employ someone with half a brain as most employers on here would like. He needs someone with a bit of intelligence because in effect they are running their own little businesses.
None of us would want to be a franchisee but there's plenty out there who do it seems.
Vin isn't stupid enough to give you all the nuts and bolts of running a franchise business - why would he? He paid for the package supplied by Ian, which isn't a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of things but anyone of you could do the same if you have the gumption and drive.
Unfortunately Vin's posting upsets lots of people and I'm not sure why. Others can brag of their £60 an hour earnings, multiple vans, pretend offices, five star holidays, tax dodging ,office paperwork, expensive poles, massive earnings 'cos they live "Down South" and LOL a lot - they seem to get a slap on the back, but Vins straightforward "I'm doing really well" posts are like red rags to the proverbial bull ;D
Having said that, the other Alan Sugars who like to come on here and use us as cash cows deserve all the stick they get. ;D
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MOD HAT ON:
This is a "robust" and very interesting thread. We could do with more of them and I recommend that anyone with a modicum of nouse learns from it by sorting the wheat from the chaff. However some have crossed the line into unacceptable behaviour - some more subtly than others.
I haven't the inclination to "proof read" all the previous posts but from this point forward let's have less abuse of other posters - especially by using slang terms for genitalia - and I have also noticed "clever" mis-spelling of a poster's name by one who seems to be punctilious in his spelling elsewhere.
Anyone doing so from hereon in is on the naughty step.
Thank you.
MOD HAT OFF.
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Definition of punctilious: a word whose meaning will be totally forgotten by the end of March.
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Very good point Mick, which I can personally vouch for as once upon a time I was an employee of a large cleaning company (£1 million turnover) and I'm not ashamed to admit I took some jobs on the side.
Long story short...
.. read but removed for quote readability...
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I'm not taking a swipe at you Mick because you seem cool, i think you just got unlucky, on the other hand I think vin has shown 'glimpses' of this attitude.
2 posts created in a matter of days, one titled 'customers rolling in', the other '£250,032', just ooze a sense narcissism.
Those who think that 'highly' of themselves normally look down on others, you know, the ones that are actually earning them the money.
Nothing in there I can disagree with (except maybe the last paragraph). If you treat people like idiots or profit centres you deserve everything you get. And the thing is you will get it. It never fails to amaze me that people treat other people like dirt and seem surprised when the favour is returned.
However, as to the last paragraph, here's my answer. Sorry to repeat myself, as I know I have mentioned it before; it's above my desk all the time, I look at it all the time and I live by it all the time:
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/Onionman9999/IMG_9215_zpsiibt82sy.jpg) (http://s1359.photobucket.com/user/Onionman9999/media/IMG_9215_zpsiibt82sy.jpg.html)
Now, I'm just a bloke on the internet so there's no way I can prove that I do so. However, I'm yet to have anything even remotely akin to a disagreement, let alone an argument, with any of our franchisees. That either means I'm blind or we're doing things mostly correctly.
Your guy sounds like he treated you as disposable profit centres; the franchisees are (not legally but in principle) our partners.
Vin
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...
I have also noticed "clever" mis-spelling of a poster's name by one who seems to be punctilious in his spelling elsewhere.
...
Sorry: I should have stayed above that level.
He is the first one to make it to my ignore list* so I won't be misspelling his name ever again, accidentally or otherwise.
Vin
* Though it will make my life an empty shell without his gems to read.
[EDIT] Didn't realise that ignoring someone was retrospective till I looked back to find a post in this thread and noticed an absence. Which was nice.
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WOW £250,032 yearly turnover leave some windows for everyone else to clean.
Debt list for all the rounds must be around the 5k mark :o
Keep up the great work Paul
I posted a poll on here a couple of years ago and worked out fairly unscientifically that (slightly pessimistically) about four in ten people have their windows cleaned. (Note the brilliant gag by 8weekly as the second reply, a gag I utterly missed at the time but acknowledge now)
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=175709.msg1483730#msg1483730
The thing is that we're cleaning one in about eighty houses (1.25%) in our catchment area. If 40% are being cleaned I don't see doing 10% as being a tough target; when we've been in a street for more than about four years that's the minimum we'd expect (we'll take on one house in a street in the knowledge that they rarely end up like that after a few visits).
So, if we hit that target, the turnover of all the franchisees would be £2m (expect to hear some people's brains exploding as they read this number). There'd be about twenty five or thirty franchisees (depending on round size and income requirements) but there would still be space in our one piddling city for another seventy to ninety guys with rounds the same size as the franchisees. This really is a truly wonderful business we're all in.
Vin, at the end of the day, whether you've built it up to 250K or 500K or 750K (other multiples also work well) it will be like one of those films you see where the guy says "we'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%". ;D
I wish. I'm a believer that you get rewards in proportion to the graft you put in, so I don't believe the image. I'm not sure anyone (bar maybe big landowners) can do that so there'll always be hard work involved. Thing is, though, I enjoy it all. I enjoy my cleaning days and I enjoy my days dealing with the business. Thirteen years till I retire, so lots more fun to have.
Vin
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Vin, do your franchisee's operate there own areas, or do they overlap? When work came in, would you assign it to a franchisee whom area it is, or would if they overlap, who gets it?
Also to everyone who have shared the pearls of their wisdom, thanks. It really does help and motivate (some of) us further down the food chain!
The franchisees overlap. The rule is that if they can do a new job from a spot where they could reasonably park to do an existing job, it's theirs. Otherwise it goes to any franchisee who is looking to grow his round. We provide the work, so they aren't in competition.
This has an unexpected benefit that I hadn't really thought of till it happened. There's a street half a mile away from here that is now cleaned by three franchisees and also by me. We're all there every six weeks at different times. What that means to the people who live there is that, on average, they see one of our vans every one and a half weeks, so we have a startling number of enquiries from the road.
Now, some might say that's unfair in terms of compactness of work but, as I said, the split is based on having to move the van. All of them have customers in adjoining streets so they have to drive a minute to their next job rather than fifteen seconds. For that small cost in efficiency, they gain from all the enquiries generated by someone being in that street almost once a week. Thus, their cleans from the single park of the van become more and more compact.
Vin
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"Anyone doing so from hereon in is on the naughty step.
Thank you.
MOD HAT OFF."
Anyone one heroin should be instantly banned in my opinion.
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weldone vin
glad your doing so well
onwards and upwards ;)
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weldone vin
glad your doing so well
onwards and upwards ;)
Yeah, I take my hat off to him as well. Just topping quarter of a million in turnover is certainly quite an achievement.
I don't have the brains or ability, or desire, to do that and in some ways, I wish I did.
Having said that I'm quite happy and content being a one man band. My working life is simple, stress free and I earn ok money and for me, that is all I want.
For others, like Vin, they want something more and hats of to them. It's horses for course.
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Not sure if I've ever said this but there are times when I turn to the wife and point out that if I were just cleaning windows life would be a doddle. Days when I just clean, come home and organise tomorrow's work are a delight.
I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to stick with cleaning as a one-man band. It's the best job I've ever had.
Vin
yep this is how i operate.good turnover,good profit and very low stress.love it.
having 4 or 5 franchises and the hassle that must go along with it at times to earn roughly the same amount of money i earn now it defo not for me.id rather be out on the tools in the fresh air myself even on a cold day like today! :)
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The interesting thing about this thread is that as has previously been pointed out the harbingers of doom seem to be people who are either 1 man bands or who have at some point in the past tried employing/franchising/renting work out and it hasnt worked for them for 1 reason or another.
No-one who is actually doing ok with employing or franchising are speaking up , why?
Just look at the treatment and attacks that poor old Vin has had in the past 14 pages.
Well this is to all u doubters and shoot em down merchants, I am somebody who employs and franchises out and guess what?
ITS OK!!!!
yes it has its little hiccups here and there but i am running the business as well as i can for the most part from where u need to be to run your business properly, behind a desk (that is when i am not knocking on doors/telecanvassing/checking on new starters and cleaning windows when short staffed)
I dont have a house in Spain or go on more than 1 foreign holiday a year but i earn a comfortable living, it works for me and it will continue to ....... sorry to disappoint the doubters but work hard and be open minded and you too could change the way you work and your business will be stronger and u too will have a rewarding working experience and an asset and an income stream for your senior years!! ;D
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The interesting thing about this thread is that as has previously been pointed out the harbingers of doom seem to be people who are either 1 man bands or who have at some point in the past tried employing/franchising/renting work out and it hasnt worked for them for 1 reason or another.
No-one who is actually doing ok with employing or franchising are speaking up , why?
Just look at the treatment and attacks that poor old Vin has had in the past 14 pages.
Well this is to all u doubters and shoot em down merchants, I am somebody who employs and franchises out and guess what?
ITS OK!!!!
yes it has its little hiccups here and there but i am running the business as well as i can for the most part from where u need to be to run your business properly, behind a desk (that is when i am not knocking on doors/telecanvassing/checking on new starters and cleaning windows when short staffed)
I dont have a house in Spain or go on more than 1 foreign holiday a year but i earn a comfortable living, it works for me and it will continue to ....... sorry to disappoint the doubters but work hard and be open minded and you too could change the way you work and your business will be stronger and u too will have a rewarding working experience and an asset and an income stream for your senior years!! ;D
Damn right!
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Anyone got anything also to say other than this idea is wonderful and well done or are we still living in la la land thinking the world is full of mugs than wont rip the arse out it when your backs turned,I can think of quiet a few instances when windys have been ripped off when they work side by side with em as I've said before this is becoming nothing more than a blowing smoke up people's bums thread now. If no one is prepared to say how this is all achieved what's the point in it anymore,I've got my card ready to pay 1500 notes for the privilege lol.
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Anyone got anything also to say other than this idea is wonderful and well done or are we still living in la la land thinking the world is full of mugs than wont rip the arse out it when your backs turned,I can think of quiet a few instances when windys have been ripped off when they work side by side with em as I've said before this is becoming nothing more than a blowing smoke up people's bums thread now. If no one is prepared to say how this is all achieved what's the point in it anymore,I've got my card ready to pay 1500 notes for the privilege lol.
i bet your a joy to work for ;D ;D ;D ;D
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God it's like watching loose women lol
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Rogue Trader and Lee Pryor, do you realise this thread was dropping nicely down the page until you 2 chirped in... now you've rattled his cage and it will stay up for another couple of days. . ;D
Ps I do realise I'm chirping in myself ;)
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Rogue Trader and Lee Pryor, do you realise this thread was dropping nicely down the page until you 2 chirped in... now you've rattled his cage and it will stay up for another couple of days. . ;D
Ps I do realise I'm chirping in myself ;)
bump :'(
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Anyone got anything also to say other than this idea is wonderful and well done or are we still living in la la land thinking the world is full of mugs than wont rip the arse out it when your backs turned,I can think of quiet a few instances when windys have been ripped off when they work side by side with em as I've said before this is becoming nothing more than a blowing smoke up people's bums thread now. If no one is prepared to say how this is all achieved what's the point in it anymore,I've got my card ready to pay 1500 notes for the privilege lol.
i bet your a joy to work for ;D ;D ;D ;D
You forgot to say "lol".
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
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Rogue Trader and Lee Pryor, do you realise this thread was dropping nicely down the page until you 2 chirped in... now you've rattled his cage and it will stay up for another couple of days. . ;D
Ps I do realise I'm chirping in myself ;)
bump :'(
;D
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The interesting thing about this thread is that as has previously been pointed out the harbingers of doom seem to be people who are either 1 man bands or who have at some point in the past tried employing/franchising/renting work out and it hasnt worked for them for 1 reason or another.
No-one who is actually doing ok with employing or franchising are speaking up , why?
Just look at the treatment and attacks that poor old Vin has had in the past 14 pages.
Well this is to all u doubters and shoot em down merchants, I am somebody who employs and franchises out and guess what?
ITS OK!!!!
yes it has its little hiccups here and there but i am running the business as well as i can for the most part from where u need to be to run your business properly, behind a desk (that is when i am not knocking on doors/telecanvassing/checking on new starters and cleaning windows when short staffed)
I dont have a house in Spain or go on more than 1 foreign holiday a year but i earn a comfortable living, it works for me and it will continue to ....... sorry to disappoint the doubters but work hard and be open minded and you too could change the way you work and your business will be stronger and u too will have a rewarding working experience and an asset and an income stream for your senior years!! ;D
Damn right!
👍
Bumpy bumpy!!
Darran
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
Chin up "Walter Mitty" - what's the concern mate?
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Most interesting read on here for ages.
Bumpety bump! :D
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
Are vins franchises effecting your business?
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
I am extreamly dissapointed by this Paul.
So lets clear it all up shal we.
This is aimed at me. Paul and I both use the same yard, I have my office there, vans, static sytem ect. Paul has a room with his static system. Due to my expansion plans this year, the landlord of the yard (NOT ME) has asked Paul to move his stuff to another room, all of 25 feet away! The new room is going to be fitted out by the landlord (at his own expense) to meet the requirements of a static system, insulated, water supply, drain ect and is actually in a better position within the yard for parking.
So all were talking about about here Paul is you moving your things 25 feet thats all. So you feel the need to pop at me on here over that!!!!!!! For god sake man pull yourself together and grow up. Feel like you have had enough? Effecting your sleep? What a load of rubbish and if that is true then you must have some real issues.
May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?
Hell I even told the landlord that I didnt think you even needed to move!
So there we have it everyone, lost sleep and stress all down to moving a tiny room 25 feet to a better room!
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I'm surprised you two can look each other in the eye.
Why don't you go to relate? You big woofters.
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What a lot of bickering :o
There are a lot of statements being made based on opinion, conjecture and sometimes sheer guesswork. Someone should spend two or three years researching everything, making sure all the questions are looked into and answered and then write it all up……
…..oh! hang on, someone's already done that.
NWH
Hi John,I agree but this industry is unique with cash changing hands etc on a daily basis
Surely not unique? The business involves visiting customers on a regular basis and taking payment for services provided. Exactly like wheely bin cleaning, grass cutting, oven cleaning, domestic cleaning, dog walking, car valeting, etc etc.
All the above work on the same principle as window cleaning and all have been successfully franchised.
Rogue Trader
No-one who is actually doing ok with employing or franchising are speaking up , why?
In my case because I don’t need to I’ve had my say in previous threads– I have no axe to grind, my business works regardless of everyone who tries so hard to prove it can’t.
u too will have a rewarding working experience and an asset and an income stream for your senior years!!
Which is why I put so much time and thought into Franchising before I took the plunge in 2006.
I came ‘off the tools’ in 2009 and retired on a modest income that was at least as much as I had previously earned working on my own. I won’t pretend it has all been a bed of roses – far from it.
NWH is correct saying that a business relies on the honesty and integrity of its members, whether employees or franchisees and no- one is immune from the ‘bad apples’, but I’m still here 10 years on, still earning my comfortable living with minimum input to the business. Of course, I could have been earning a vast amount more with 10 vans on the road being operated by employees but I traded the intensive ‘hands on’ of employing for the smaller income and far more relaxed life of a Franchisor.
NWH
If no one is prepared to say how this is all achieved what's the point in it anymore,I've got my card ready to pay 1500 notes for the privilege lol.
Exactly NWH. The point is that if a complete ‘How to Franchise Your Window Cleaning Business’ were posted here for free then everyone could benefit from someone else’s hard work for nothing and no one would need to part with their 1500 notes.
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I'm surprised you two can look each other in the eye.
Why don't you go to relate? You big woofters.
;D ;D ;D
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If no one is going to HELP others we can all just keep blowing smoke up arses then I'll go first,well done to everyone who franchises out there business 🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾
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How old are you NWH?
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IMO it's a gamble to who you get on board with you I reckon some that have done it successfully know or have known the people that have got involved in the business with them. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it doesn't work but employing would work better IMO and you could still be in the background you wouldn't need to be working everyday.
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I don't know why I'm bothering replying anymore I'm ped bored with this thread no ones telling people how it's done anyway.
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I don't know why I'm bothering replying anymore I'm ped bored with this thread no ones telling people how it's done anyway.
Do us all a favour and don't then.
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How old are you NWH?
My guess .... 17-19
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1455645112_FB_IMG_1455120688001.jpg)
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How old are you NWH?
My guess .... 17-19 months
FTFY. ;D
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How old are you NWH?
My guess .... 17-19
IQ?
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I don't know why I'm bothering replying anymore I'm ped bored with this thread no ones telling people how it's done anyway.
As far as I can see you haven't asked a single simple question about how it's done. Instead you've ranted and raved about how it can't possibly work and thrown in a question as part of that rant. That's all well and good and is your right but if you don't ask reasonable questions without an agenda, why do you think anyone's just going to write a "how to" guide for you? The one question you kept asking was "why won't anyone talk about when it doesn't work out" (agenda again) when there were already posts in the thread about that very subject.
You might have noticed that plenty of other people on this thread have asked questions and had them answered. Two things: One they asked a question and Two, they didn't repetitively tell everyone why it couldn't work. And they got what they were looking for.
Vin
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Yeahbut nobut it's poop lol smokeupyerbum lol nobut yeahbut don't work does it can't possibly work 'cos nobody tells me how to do it lol yeahbut nobut upyerbum so there tossers. lol
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Can't be bothered to read 15 pages, but well done I guess.
Not sure to the point of the thread and why people ever have to announce how well they are doing to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum though ???
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How old are you NWH?
My guess .... 17-19
IQ?
Think your over estimating there with the iq it can't be that high judging by his posts ;D
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Yeahbut nobut it's poop lol smokeupyerbum lol nobut yeahbut don't work does it can't possibly work 'cos nobody tells me how to do it lol yeahbut nobut upyerbum so there tossers. lol
How old are you Dave 😂 Yep another post by someone franchising not saying how he's done it just ho much he's earning again,I tell you what I'll answer any question you want as long as it won't advance you any further than me eh. 14 odd pages of blowing smoke up a couple of people's arses,the title should have been I'm now earning 55-60 thousand pounds not 250 thousand LOL.
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
I am extreamly dissapointed by this Paul.
So lets clear it all up shal we.
This is aimed at me. Paul and I both use the same yard, I have my office there, vans, static sytem ect. Paul has a room with his static system. Due to my expansion plans this year, the landlord of the yard (NOT ME) has asked Paul to move his stuff to another room, all of 25 feet away! The new room is going to be fitted out by the landlord (at his own expense) to meet the requirements of a static system, insulated, water supply, drain ect and is actually in a better position within the yard for parking.
So all were talking about about here Paul is you moving your things 25 feet thats all. So you feel the need to pop at me on here over that!!!!!!! For god sake man pull yourself together and grow up. Feel like you have had enough? Effecting your sleep? What a load of rubbish and if that is true then you must have some real issues.
May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?
Hell I even told the landlord that I didnt think you even needed to move!
So there we have it everyone, lost sleep and stress all down to moving a tiny room 25 feet to a better room!
First of all, it wasn't a "pop". I was merely stating how I felt and how something affected me.
Yes, I'm pretty disappointed too. I don't want to mess about moving my stuff. It'll cost me work time as well because the tank will have to run down to empty to be moved. I have reservations about whether the new unit will be better - I feel it may be more susceptible to freezing, a big expense if a 40" RO and housing go up the swanee.
It's clear that your intended expansion has triggered this and it's clear that I'm in the way.
It's very wrong to make assumptions about how I should or shouldn't be feeling. Just because you might not be affected a certain way by something, it doesn't mean that others should feel the same way. Not all of us have the good fortune to come from psychologically healthy backgrounds so yes, I do have issues around stuff like excessive stress and used to have issues around depression if I go back 30 years. Please don't use my "issues" in a derogatory manner - I didn't plan for life to be like that and have made a fairly OK job of a rotten hand.
You say "May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?"
I don't actually see the relevance of that bit. I bought a few tanks of water from you while I was looking to sort out arrangements somewhere.
I really don't know why you choose to mock me and to minimise my stress and erratic sleep pattern. People are affected the way they are affected - nothing right or wrong about it. It's nothing to do with being "grown up" or otherwise.
I note that the only "popping" seems to be in one direction, and it isn't from me.
Anyone who has ever suffered from depression wil tell you that two of the classsic symptoms are erratic sleep and even relatively smallish things (to most people) being blown up within the mind. Last night, I really feared that I was headfing in a direction that I haven't felt for decades. It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't been there, but it's certainly not anything I should be mocked over. Indeed, I'm quite proud that I managed to call on my past experiences to overcome it.
I'm actually a little puzzled why you felt the need to jump in in such a manner. You appeared to be making a few assumptions.
Not to worry. Life goes on.
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How old are you NWH?
My guess .... 17-19
IQ?
Think your over estimating there with the iq it can't be that high judging by his posts ;D
The amount he charges for a conservatory if he doesn't like you. ;D
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8 weekly I reckon you was a bit of bully a school wasn't you or were you the fat kid,I noticed you piped earlier on the brush thread just to say don't forget meeeeeee I'm testing brushes as well you know. I reckon you've got a very good chance in getting a part in the next Haribo advert pal 🔙🔜
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
I am extreamly dissapointed by this Paul.
So lets clear it all up shal we.
This is aimed at me. Paul and I both use the same yard, I have my office there, vans, static sytem ect. Paul has a room with his static system. Due to my expansion plans this year, the landlord of the yard (NOT ME) has asked Paul to move his stuff to another room, all of 25 feet away! The new room is going to be fitted out by the landlord (at his own expense) to meet the requirements of a static system, insulated, water supply, drain ect and is actually in a better position within the yard for parking.
So all were talking about about here Paul is you moving your things 25 feet thats all. So you feel the need to pop at me on here over that!!!!!!! For god sake man pull yourself together and grow up. Feel like you have had enough? Effecting your sleep? What a load of rubbish and if that is true then you must have some real issues.
May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?
Hell I even told the landlord that I didnt think you even needed to move!
So there we have it everyone, lost sleep and stress all down to moving a tiny room 25 feet to a better room!
First of all, it wasn't a "pop". I was merely stating how I felt and how something affected me.
Yes, I'm pretty disappointed too. I don't want to mess about moving my stuff. It'll cost me work time as well because the tank will have to run down to empty to be moved. I have reservations about whether the new unit will be better - I feel it may be more susceptible to freezing, a big expense if a 40" RO and housing go up the swanee.
It's clear that your intended expansion has triggered this and it's clear that I'm in the way.
It's very wrong to make assumptions about how I should or shouldn't be feeling. Just because you might not be affected a certain way by something, it doesn't mean that others should feel the same way. Not all of us have the good fortune to come from psychologically healthy backgrounds so yes, I do have issues around stuff like excessive stress and used to have issues around depression if I go back 30 years. Please don't use my "issues" in a derogatory manner - I didn't plan for life to be like that and have made a fairly OK job of a rotten hand.
You say "May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?"
I don't actually see the relevance of that bit. I bought a few tanks of water from you while I was looking to sort out arrangements somewhere.
I really don't know why you choose to mock me and to minimise my stress and erratic sleep pattern. People are affected the way they are affected - nothing right or wrong about it. It's nothing to do with being "grown up" or otherwise.
I note that the only "popping" seems to be in one direction, and it isn't from me.
Anyone who has ever suffered from depression wil tell you that two of the classsic symptoms are erratic sleep and even relatively smallish things (to most people) being blown up within the mind. Last night, I really feared that I was headfing in a direction that I haven't felt for decades. It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't been there, but it's certainly not anything I should be mocked over. Indeed, I'm quite proud that I managed to call on my past experiences to overcome it.
I'm actually a little puzzled why you felt the need to jump in in such a manner. You appeared to be making a few assumptions.
Not to worry. Life goes on.
Where are you and Lee Pryor based?
I really want to be a fly on the wall when you guys bump into each other at the yard!
Awwwwkward
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Yeahbut nobut it's poop lol smokeupyerbum lol nobut yeahbut don't work does it can't possibly work 'cos nobody tells me how to do it lol yeahbut nobut upyerbum so there tossers. lol
How old are you Dave 😂 Yep another post by someone franchising not saying how he's done it just ho much he's earning again,I tell you what I'll answer any question you want as long as it won't advance you any further than me eh. 14 odd pages of blowing smoke up a couple of people's arses,the title should have been I'm now earning 55-60 thousand pounds not 250 thousand LOL.
Two things:
1. Here's a deal: I'll answer any question you ask without you :
telling me that I'm an idiot
telling me that I'm a liar
saying franchising can't possibly work
including any kind of rant about people you employed in the past
implying that you won't believe the answer
- can't say fairer than that
2. Who mentioned earning 250K? It was quite clear right from the start that this was a thread about the total turnover of all the franchisees we currently have.
So, where's this first question?
Vin
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The general perception is that all window cleaners and people on the whole are Nuns or Monks and wouldn't dare to do the dirty on you or someone similar,if you were being honest Vin all you would have to say is that if your not careful you can get taken for a right mug you need to keep an eye on things and make sure the people you are allowing into this are not to ambitious. I'm being honest with you Vin I wouldn't or don't want anyone to ambitious that's what I am,it's a bit like if somethings good tell people if somethings excellent keep it to yourself,but you already know that don't you like Ian.
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I don't begrudge anyone expanding so long as it doesn't affect another's business.
Unfortunately, it appears that mine is about to be affected.
Not happy.
Maybe I'll try to find a tap, ditch the unit, and go resin only.
I really feel like I've had enough and it's affecting my sleep.
I am extreamly dissapointed by this Paul.
So lets clear it all up shal we.
This is aimed at me. Paul and I both use the same yard, I have my office there, vans, static sytem ect. Paul has a room with his static system. Due to my expansion plans this year, the landlord of the yard (NOT ME) has asked Paul to move his stuff to another room, all of 25 feet away! The new room is going to be fitted out by the landlord (at his own expense) to meet the requirements of a static system, insulated, water supply, drain ect and is actually in a better position within the yard for parking.
So all were talking about about here Paul is you moving your things 25 feet thats all. So you feel the need to pop at me on here over that!!!!!!! For god sake man pull yourself together and grow up. Feel like you have had enough? Effecting your sleep? What a load of rubbish and if that is true then you must have some real issues.
May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?
Hell I even told the landlord that I didnt think you even needed to move!
So there we have it everyone, lost sleep and stress all down to moving a tiny room 25 feet to a better room!
First of all, it wasn't a "pop". I was merely stating how I felt and how something affected me.
Yes, I'm pretty disappointed too. I don't want to mess about moving my stuff. It'll cost me work time as well because the tank will have to run down to empty to be moved. I have reservations about whether the new unit will be better - I feel it may be more susceptible to freezing, a big expense if a 40" RO and housing go up the swanee.
It's clear that your intended expansion has triggered this and it's clear that I'm in the way.
It's very wrong to make assumptions about how I should or shouldn't be feeling. Just because you might not be affected a certain way by something, it doesn't mean that others should feel the same way. Not all of us have the good fortune to come from psychologically healthy backgrounds so yes, I do have issues around stuff like excessive stress and used to have issues around depression if I go back 30 years. Please don't use my "issues" in a derogatory manner - I didn't plan for life to be like that and have made a fairly OK job of a rotten hand.
You say "May I remind you that it was me that introduced you to the yard in the first place or have you forgotten that?"
I don't actually see the relevance of that bit. I bought a few tanks of water from you while I was looking to sort out arrangements somewhere.
I really don't know why you choose to mock me and to minimise my stress and erratic sleep pattern. People are affected the way they are affected - nothing right or wrong about it. It's nothing to do with being "grown up" or otherwise.
I note that the only "popping" seems to be in one direction, and it isn't from me.
Anyone who has ever suffered from depression wil tell you that two of the classsic symptoms are erratic sleep and even relatively smallish things (to most people) being blown up within the mind. Last night, I really feared that I was headfing in a direction that I haven't felt for decades. It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't been there, but it's certainly not anything I should be mocked over. Indeed, I'm quite proud that I managed to call on my past experiences to overcome it.
I'm actually a little puzzled why you felt the need to jump in in such a manner. You appeared to be making a few assumptions.
Not to worry. Life goes on.
Where are you and Lee Pryor based?
I really want to be a fly on the wall when you guys bump into each other at the yard!
Awwwwkward
Not at all.
If he chooses to have a probem with me, that's his choice.
I don't have one with him.
Even though he appears to have mocked my difficuties with stress, I won't be biting. Life's too short.
As I said, I'm more puzzled than anything about why me stating how I feel and how it affected me, has been interpreted as a 'pop'.
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8 weekly I reckon you was a bit of bully a school wasn't you or were you the fat kid,I noticed you piped earlier on the brush thread just to say don't forget meeeeeee I'm testing brushes as well you know. I reckon you've got a very good chance in getting a part in the next Haribo advert pal 🔙🔜
Yep, a big fat bully me. ;D As for the brushes thing, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if it spoilt your secret squirrel act. :P
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The general perception is that all window cleaners and people on the whole are Nuns or Monks and wouldn't dare to do the dirty on you or someone similar,if you were being honest Vin all you would have to say is that if your not careful you can get taken for a right mug you need to keep an eye on things and make sure the people you are allowing into this are not to ambitious. I'm being honest with you Vin I wouldn't or don't want anyone to ambitious that's what I am,it's a bit like if somethings good tell people if somethings excellent keep it to yourself,but you already know that don't you like Ian.
No, I don't know that. I'm just waiting for your question, if you have one.
Vin
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He's asked it. It's just his punctuation isn't 100% so there wasn't a question mark.
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it's a bit like if somethings good tell people if somethings excellent keep it to yourself,but you already know that don't you like Ian.
Could you just clarify that for me? I have a package that is the result of more than two years thinking, revising and refining and three years subsequent experience to eliminate mistakes I hadn't thought of beforehand, together with a regularly updated Franchise Agreement that initially cost me in excess of £9,000, all documented in a simple straightforward way that anyone could use to create a business just like mine and you want me to give it to you for free???!!
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The general perception is that all window cleaners and people on the whole are Nuns or Monks and wouldn't dare to do the dirty on you or someone similar,if you were being honest Vin all you would have to say is that if your not careful you can get taken for a right mug you need to keep an eye on things and make sure the people you are allowing into this are not to ambitious. I'm being honest with you Vin I wouldn't or don't want anyone to ambitious that's what I am,it's a bit like if somethings good tell people if somethings excellent keep it to yourself,but you already know that don't you like Ian.
No, I don't know that. I'm just waiting for your question, if you have one.
Vin
I do :)
Genuine question
As you say you give a franchisee as much work as they want. If you guarantee a franchisee say £1000 of work a month (for which you take 20% of that figure) and they loose say £50 a month due to cancellations (of not there fault) and you cant replace it straight away, do you compensate him/her by not taking as much of a percentage for the months you cant give them the £1000 of work (as they will be losing income) or is there a certain time frame they must give you to replace the work. Figures quoted are just examples.
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And that Nigel is how to ask a question!!
Darran
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The answer will cost you 1500 notes can I have your card number please you mug lol 💩
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The answer will cost you 1500 notes can I have your card number please you mug lol 💩
I don't think you would have the intelligence to use the card reader if i gave them to you :P
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Do you honestly think that with that work being done out there there's not the odd house weatherboard conservatory being cleaned without you knowing it for cash in hand over 4-5 rounds of work on a daily weekly basis,I think someone needs to smell the old coffee beans if you ask me. You don't need to give me a reply to that thanks coz I know the answer,you either think you so special that they wouldn't do it to you or you don't know people in general.
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I discovered a fantastic way to clean lead lights today it's a revelation I have been working on this for sometime now trial and error and all that you know what it's like,if you'd like to send me a cheque for 50 notes I'll let you know my secret yeah 🚽🚽🚽👈👈👈
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Do you honestly think that with that work being done out there there's not the odd house weatherboard conservatory being cleaned without you knowing it for cash in hand over 4-5 rounds of work on a daily weekly basis,I think someone needs to smell the old coffee beans if you ask me. You don't need to give me a reply to that thanks coz I know the answer,you either think you so special that they wouldn't do it to you or you don't know people in general.
Not a question in any way, shape or form. Oh dear, I give up. Second onto my ignore list.
Vin
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Lol come on Vin you know it goes on have you been a window cleaner before.
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Not a question but it's what happens everyday of our working week are you not even going to say it's possible it goes on.
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I reckon most blokes would say we know it goes on as long as we are getting our wedge we are appy eh. 💸💸💸🔍🔍🔍🔍
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I do :)
Genuine question
As you say you give a franchisee as much work as they want. If you guarantee a franchisee say £1000 of work a month (for which you take 20% of that figure) and they loose say £50 a month due to cancellations (of not there fault) and you cant replace it straight away, do you compensate him/her by not taking as much of a percentage for the months you cant give them the £1000 of work (as they will be losing income) or is there a certain time frame they must give you to replace the work. Figures quoted are just examples.
No, no compensation but there has to be some give and take. The kind of person we have as a franchisee knows that they are running a business and that nothing's guaranteed. They also know that over the summer we there is nothing on my mind more that trying to gain business. That means that any downward fluctuations will be far outweighed by the strong upward trend. I'm obviously not going to share the graphs of franchisees' turnover but the odd downward blip is pretty much invisible.
To give it some perspective, the three longer-standing franchisees are all over £1,000 a week, so £50 of cancellations in a month wouldn't really be noticeable. Plus, even now in winter, we're gaining business at a rate that should keep the guys slowly growing barring a major series of cancellations.
Vin
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Lol come on Vin you know it goes on have you been a window cleaner before.
i franchise too.
and to answer your quote ! ( as i am still a windie )
of course its bound to happen, " house here and house there, conny roof in the back pocket"
all you can do is monitor them as best you feel.
we are van tracked and realistically rely on the judgement we used when we took on the franchisee.
One franchisee had a custie call up the office to see when she was next due,
we checked the franchisees accounts and she was not on there.
The franchisee was called into the office and read the riot act about keeping his franchise in order and the consequences of moonlighting.
on the employment side it also fails als.
today i had a call to cancel an account due to a quality issue,
upon looking at her account the cleaner yesterday had marked her down as " Having Work Done"
meaning he stupidly let his cash in the back pocket " not today" phone us up with a quality issue???????? the mind boggles!!!
we tracked the vans movements yesterday and gathered the information and as a consequence he was dismissed.
there are pitfalls in any way you earn money,
its about working out what best works for you!!
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Yeahbut nobut it's poop lol smokeupyerbum lol nobut yeahbut don't work does it can't possibly work 'cos nobody tells me how to do it lol yeahbut nobut upyerbum so there tossers. lol
How old are you Dave 😂 Yep another post by someone franchising not saying how he's done it just ho much he's earning again,I tell you what I'll answer any question you want as long as it won't advance you any further than me eh. 14 odd pages of blowing smoke up a couple of people's arses,the title should have been I'm now earning 55-60 thousand pounds not 250 thousand LOL.
Two things:
1. Here's a deal: I'll answer any question you ask without you :
telling me that I'm an idiot
telling me that I'm a liar
saying franchising can't possibly work
including any kind of rant about people you employed in the past
implying that you won't believe the answer
- can't say fairer than that
2. Who mentioned earning 250K? It was quite clear right from the start that this was a thread about the total turnover of all the franchisees we currently have.
So, where's this first question?
Vin
Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you??
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
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Mods
Don't you think it's time this thread is locked?
Its turned so negative and doesn't serve any purpose at all apart from probably turning people away from the forum!
Andy
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Mods
Don't you think it's time this thread is locked?
Its turned so negative and doesn't serve any purpose at all apart from probably turning people away from the forum!
Andy
I understand that point of view Andy but the flip side is that it has generated over 3200 views (even more than the "post your pic and win a pole" thread) and other posters have called it the best thread they can remember on CIU.
I think there is enough interesting, relevant and useful stuff to let it run it's course. There are perhaps one or two posters that seem to just want to be argumentative or post off topic stuff and I for one will keep a watchful eye.
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Mods
Don't you think it's time this thread is locked?
Its turned so negative and doesn't serve any purpose at all apart from probably turning people away from the forum!
Andy
I understand that point of view Andy but the flip side is that it has generated over 3200 views (even more than the "post your pic and win a pole" thread) and other posters have called it the best thread they can remember on CIU.
I think there is enough interesting, relevant and useful stuff to let it run it's course. There are perhaps one or two posters that seem to just want to be argumentative or post off topic stuff and I for one will keep a watchful eye.
Fair enough.
Although I do think that it's run it's course and getting too personal?
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Sir, Sir, I've got a question!
What happens if you can't fulfil your side of the agreement?
ie. you can't generate enough work?
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I don't know why I'm bothering replying anymore I'm ped bored with this thread no ones telling people how it's done anyway.
didnt last long did it ;)
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Sir, Sir, I've got a question!
What happens if you can't fulfil your side of the agreement?
ie. you can't generate enough work?
Don't know. It hasn't happened yet and I can't see why it would. Not glib, just genuine. There hasn't been any slowdown in response rates or incoming calls, so I genuinely can't see why it would stop without plenty of warning.
Vin
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Mods
Don't you think it's time this thread is locked?
Its turned so negative and doesn't serve any purpose at all apart from probably turning people away from the forum!
Andy
Well, I'm enjoying it:
We have what I hope is a motivational story; if I can do it anyone can.
We have some good questions asked - I like answering questions about how we do things; one of the best ideas I had for the business came while I was crafting an answer to a question in a very bad-tempered debate on this forum.
We have messages of support
We have jokes
We have messages of dislike verging on hatred
We have people who can find but can't read company accounts
We have stalkers
We have the person who has done the most in the UK to promote franchising in WC
We have ranters
We have other franchisors
We have assertive modding
It's like an episode of Eastenders. It's terrific! I'm just annoyed that my "target £2m" post generated so little heat...
Vin
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Do you honestly think that with that work being done out there there's not the odd house weatherboard conservatory being cleaned without you knowing it for cash in hand over 4-5 rounds of work on a daily weekly basis,I think someone needs to smell the old coffee beans if you ask me. You don't need to give me a reply to that thanks coz I know the answer,you either think you so special that they wouldn't do it to you or you don't know people in general.
But the franchisors might retort that that is what we're only making plans for, Nigel.
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Sir, Sir, I've got a question!
What happens if you can't fulfil your side of the agreement?
ie. you can't generate enough work?
Already thought of and covered.
Paragraph 6.1 of the Franchise Agreement states: "I will consult with you from time to time in order to assess the gross turnover you wish to achieve...........................................................but I shall not be liable if I am unable, after acting reasonably, to procure the number of customers/turnover you require"
This is in the Agreement that both parties sign, and both willingly and without duress agree to be bound by. The prospective franchisee has as much time as he/she wants to read, examine and understand the Agreement and we always advise that they should take it to another solicitor for professional advice before signing.
In practical terms, as Vin has said, any competent Franchisor would never be in the situation where he couldn't, within a reasonable time, procure as much work as the Franchisee could manage.
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@Ian
Why the long pregnant pause between "achieve" and "but" in your posted segment of Para. 6.1?
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Do you honestly think that with that work being done out there there's not the odd house weatherboard conservatory being cleaned without you knowing it for cash in hand over 4-5 rounds of work on a daily weekly basis,I think someone needs to smell the old coffee beans if you ask me. You don't need to give me a reply to that thanks coz I know the answer,you either think you so special that they wouldn't do it to you or you don't know people in general.
Of course. But it's not restricted to a franchise organisation - any employer will tell you he has employees that he knows are moonlighting. We try to be practical: While cleaning Mrs Jones' house she asks our franchisee if he can clean her soffit/fascias, conservatory roof or whatever. This will be a 'one off' type of job, no regular order placed. We have acquired the regular work of Mrs Jones' windows, and therefore are entitled to our royalties every time the job is done. Under the strict terms of the Agreement we are also entitled to royalties on the 'extras' but provided doing the work doesn't prevent the Franchisee from completing the scheduled regular work, we turn a blind eye.
If the request were for (say) 4 monthly cleaning of the 'extra' then this would qualify as a regular job and we would charge a royalty fee.
It happens. It's human nature, we try to be sensible about it.
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@Ian
Why the long pregnant pause between "achieve" and "but" in your posted segment of Para. 6.1?
Because there is a lot of other text that doesn't bear directly on the question, concerning the Franchisee's failure to complete the work amongst other things.
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Ah, I see. I thought there would just be a single ellipsis of three dots.
On the subject of round "renter"/franchisee/employee doing extra jobs - that's the stance I take with DtM. In fact I chuck him extra jobs like conny roofs and gutters off of my own personal round for free instead of charging him a percentage because I can't be bothered and don't charge him and in return he does odd jobs on rainy days like servicing kit and vehicles to make the equipment run smoother.
I was stricter when he was an employee but even then if he worked say a Saturday on an extra job and there was enough money in it I would double his hourly rate or make it worth his while.
Like Vin said - doing what is best for the franchisee seems to also be what is best for the franchisor, in the long term.
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ellipsis of three dots.
I had to look it up :-[
You learn something new every day - were you a typesetter in a previous incarnation?
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ellipsis of three dots.
I had to look it up :-[
You learn something new every day - were you a typesetter in a previous incarnation?
;D
No. I used to sell word processing equipment to solicitors and local government departments and so picked up a modicum of their funny little ways.
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Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you??
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
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@Ross
I suppose the man down the pub is directly in your sphere of work and may be perceived as competition. On here it is unlikely that those we assist and are assisted by will be affected by the helpful advice given.
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Yeahbut nobut it's poop lol smokeupyerbum lol nobut yeahbut don't work does it can't possibly work 'cos nobody tells me how to do it lol yeahbut nobut upyerbum so there tossers. lol
;D ;D poor ol NWH really is a strange chap isn't he. Lol. Lol. Etc.
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@Ross
I suppose the man down the pub is directly in your sphere of work and may be perceived as competition. On here it is unlikely that those we assist and are assisted by will be affected by the helpful advice given.
Mr Gold, you may be right there in some respects.
The bloke down the pub wanted my hard earned experience over the years for free. If he seriously wanted what I know, then he can pay for it.
It didn't have anything to do with competition as around here there seems to be a dire shortage of window cleaners. I turn down work every week because I can't take on any more.
As for advice given out for free on this forum for complete newcomers, as time goes on more and more may come here for all the free advice they can get and then in the years to come, some will moan about the competition having not realised some of them will have helped create that.
Promoting franchising as a business model to members who may then think, I'll try doing that for myself, is not a good business idea to say the least and it doesn't take much brains to work out why.
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Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you??
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
No need to wonder guys, It's "The Vin Show" what other purpose can there possibly be to title the thread in that way?
Attention seeker? Narcissist? Edited - Please refrain from swearing, this may lead to a ban
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No need to wonder guys, It's "The Vin Show" what other purpose can there possibly be to title the thread in that way?
Attention seeker? Narcissist? MODDED
Insults are just simply another form of attention seeking and also narcissism.
Why do that? It leads no where.
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Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
No need to wonder guys, It's "The Vin Show" what other purpose can there possibly be to title the thread in that way?
Attention seeker? Narcissist? MODDED
You do have a habit of being unpleasant whenever anybody that seems to be genuinely doing well cares to share their experience. One might reasonably suppose that the problem is within you.
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What a lot of bickering :o
There are a lot of statements being made based on opinion, conjecture and sometimes sheer guesswork. Someone should spend two or three years researching everything, making sure all the questions are looked into and answered and then write it all up……
…..oh! hang on, someone's already done that.
NWH
Hi John,I agree but this industry is unique with cash changing hands etc on a daily basis
Surely not unique? The business involves visiting customers on a regular basis and taking payment for services provided. Exactly like wheely bin cleaning, grass cutting, oven cleaning, domestic cleaning, dog walking, car valeting, etc etc.
All the above work on the same principle as window cleaning and all have been successfully franchised.
Rogue Trader
No-one who is actually doing ok with employing or franchising are speaking up , why?
In my case because I don’t need to I’ve had my say in previous threads– I have no axe to grind, my business works regardless of everyone who tries so hard to prove it can’t.
u too will have a rewarding working experience and an asset and an income stream for your senior years!!
Which is why I put so much time and thought into Franchising before I took the plunge in 2006.
I came ‘off the tools’ in 2009 and retired on a modest income that was at least as much as I had previously earned working on my own. I won’t pretend it has all been a bed of roses – far from it.
NWH is correct saying that a business relies on the honesty and integrity of its members, whether employees or franchisees and no- one is immune from the ‘bad apples’, but I’m still here 10 years on, still earning my comfortable living with minimum input to the business. Of course, I could have been earning a vast amount more with 10 vans on the road being operated by employees but I traded the intensive ‘hands on’ of employing for the smaller income and far more relaxed life of a Franchisor.
NWH
If no one is prepared to say how this is all achieved what's the point in it anymore,I've got my card ready to pay 1500 notes for the privilege lol.
Exactly NWH. The point is that if a complete ‘How to Franchise Your Window Cleaning Business’ were posted here for free then everyone could benefit from someone else’s hard work for nothing and no one would need to part with their 1500 notes.
At last, a man who speaks sense. You speak sense because you have been there and done it, instead of talking out of your hat like people who have not done it.
I think you, I, Lee Pryor, Vin and a few others on here sing from the same sheet. We research and our research leads us to a different conclusion than those who spout and deliberately wind others up like some on here.
Many of the things you said above apply to my solar panel cleaning business too.
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it's a bit like if somethings good tell people if somethings excellent keep it to yourself,but you already know that don't you like Ian.
Could you just clarify that for me? I have a package that is the result of more than two years thinking, revising and refining and three years subsequent experience to eliminate mistakes I hadn't thought of beforehand, together with a regularly updated Franchise Agreement that initially cost me in excess of £9,000, all documented in a simple straightforward way that anyone could use to create a business just like mine and you want me to give it to you for free???!!
Yes Ian. The same as they want to know information I have learned about solar panel cleaning you see. It saves them time, efforts and money. I mean, who wants to invest time effort and money in their business when mugs give away information on Internet forums for free?
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Mods
Don't you think it's time this thread is locked?
Its turned so negative and doesn't serve any purpose at all apart from probably turning people away from the forum!
Andy
I understand that point of view Andy but the flip side is that it has generated over 3200 views (even more than the "post your pic and win a pole" thread) and other posters have called it the best thread they can remember on CIU.
I think there is enough interesting, relevant and useful stuff to let it run it's course. There are perhaps one or two posters that seem to just want to be argumentative or post off topic stuff and I for one will keep a watchful eye.
Hi Granville.
I agree with what you say, but using page views as part of your argument doesn't stack up. My solar threads are some of the most popular ever on CIU, but they have still been blocked. No major beef, just saying...
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I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
My advice to new starters has always been the same - look through twenty pages of posts and see whose posts make sense (might add, are well written and calm). Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read them all. It's what I did six years ago; weeks with a notebook (literally weeks and I still have the notebook) taking the best ideas from everyone on here. It's all already out there for anyone who wants it. This site contains a perfect guide whether it's how to start, run well day-to-day, work as a one-man-band, expand, employ or franchise. As ever though, it takes work. So it's much easier to ask the question, get the opinion of the person who shouts the loudest and head off without planning.
I want professional, capable competition. Sounds odd but I don't want customers to think that window cleaners are out to earn enough money to get to the pub at lunchtime. The more professional we all are, the better. The fewer people there are turning up in tracky bottoms and a dirty vest and charging £3.50 for a house the better it is for everyone doing a decent job.
Plus, as I've mentioned above, there is so much business out there that the difficulty isn't competition, it's being set up to be able to cover the work available.
Vin
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@Ross
I suppose the man down the pub is directly in your sphere of work and may be perceived as competition. On here it is unlikely that those we assist and are assisted by will be affected by the helpful advice given.
Not strictly true. Vin's franchises are affecting some window cleaners out there, the same as the window cleaners who may price against my solar panel cleaning jobs. The difference with the man down the road is that you can put a face to his name. I know for instance that I have directly quoted against Quarterlight and Purple Rhino on jobs. All of the above is perfectly OK as it is an open market and competition is healthy. But just because we cannot see our competition, does not mean they are not there. Knowing I have already quoted against people on the forum is the exact reason I will not disclose my business details on here.
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I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
My advice to new starters has always been the same - look through twenty pages of posts and see whose posts make sense (might add, are well written and calm). Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read them all. It's what I did six years ago; weeks with a notebook (literally weeks and I still have the notebook) taking the best ideas from everyone on here. It's all already out there for anyone who wants it. This site contains a perfect guide whether it's how to start, run well day-to-day, work as a one-man-band, expand, employ or franchise. As ever though, it takes work. So it's much easier to ask the question, get the opinion of the person who shouts the loudest and head off without planning.
I want professional, capable competition. Sounds odd but I don't want customers to think that window cleaners are out to earn enough money to get to the pub at lunchtime. The more professional we all are, the better. The fewer people there are turning up in tracky bottoms and a dirty vest and charging £3.50 for a house the better it is for everyone doing a decent job.
Plus, as I've mentioned above, there is so much business out there that the difficulty isn't competition, it's being set up to be able to cover the work available.
Vin
The 'Search' facility is probably the most underused part of the forum in my opinion. It amazes me how often the same subjects come up. If people used the search, they would get their answers quicker.
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Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
No need to wonder guys, It's "The Vin Show" what other purpose can there possibly be to title the thread in that way?
Attention seeker? Narcissist? or just plain K N O B? ;D
You do have a habit of being unpleasant whenever anybody that seems to be genuinely doing well cares to share their experience. One might reasonably suppose that the problem is within you.
Jealousy. That's the problem with some of these more vitriolic characters.
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I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
My advice to new starters has always been the same - look through twenty pages of posts and see whose posts make sense (might add, are well written and calm). Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read them all. It's what I did six years ago; weeks with a notebook (literally weeks and I still have the notebook) taking the best ideas from everyone on here. It's all already out there for anyone who wants it. This site contains a perfect guide whether it's how to start, run well day-to-day, work as a one-man-band, expand, employ or franchise. As ever though, it takes work. So it's much easier to ask the question, get the opinion of the person who shouts the loudest and head off without planning.
I want professional, capable competition. Sounds odd but I don't want customers to think that window cleaners are out to earn enough money to get to the pub at lunchtime. The more professional we all are, the better. The fewer people there are turning up in tracky bottoms and a dirty vest and charging £3.50 for a house the better it is for everyone doing a decent job.
Plus, as I've mentioned above, there is so much business out there that the difficulty isn't competition, it's being set up to be able to cover the work available.
Vin
The 'Search' facility is probably the most underused part of the forum in my opinion. It amazes me how often the same subjects come up. If people used the search, they would get their answers quicker.
I think the same subjects come up as times change...if I searched which is the best brush, I might get 'vikan all day long' which would've been the case a long time ago until Alex brought out his collection . In a month or so when the ultimate comes out, that might be better then what was best 6 months ago . The goes for everything not just brushes
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Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
No need to wonder guys, It's "The Vin Show" what other purpose can there possibly be to title the thread in that way?
Attention seeker? Narcissist? MODDED
You do have a habit of being unpleasant whenever anybody that seems to be genuinely doing well cares to share their experience. One might reasonably suppose that the problem is within you.
Wow, I never thought of that 8 Weekly, you should try Psychotherapy mate, maybe in a few years you'll be able to start a thread on a shrink forum telling them how much your client list is worth! ;D
5 day BAN
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@Solar Steve
As you know your restrictions were nothing to do with popularity of threads but due to complaints about "sailing close to the wind" on breaking advertising rules.
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Why make this thread anyway, why would you want the world to know what you turnover?.
Noone else makes an ooo i earn this much thread!
The fact that by searching your company on company house comes up with figures so far out from what you state tells a story that you are an attention seeker. Why post about yourself so much if its working so great for you
A clever person would keep it to himself and let others wonder how much or how long.....
I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
No need to wonder guys, It's "The Vin Show" what other purpose can there possibly be to title the thread in that way?
Attention seeker? Narcissist? MODDED
You do have a habit of being unpleasant whenever anybody that seems to be genuinely doing well cares to share their experience. One might reasonably suppose that the problem is within you.
Wow, I never thought of that 8 Weekly, you should try Psychotherapy mate, maybe in a few years you'll be able to start a thread on a shrink forum telling them how much your client list is worth! ;D
5 day BAN
;D
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@Solar Steve
As you know your restrictions were nothing to do with popularity of threads but due to complaints about "sailing close to the wind" on breaking advertising rules.
"Sailing close to the wind" is not breaking the rules. Doing 30 mph in a 30 mph limit is sailing close to the wind, but it is not breaking the law.
Look back through recent threads and you will see I did not bring up the offending subject, others did. That is not advertising, that's being advertised. It's actually a more effective advert, so I thank those people. :)
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I've been wondering that.
It's like when someone new comes on to the forum and asks what they need to do to start a window cleaning business and members tell them how to start from scratch and where to buy everything, etc.
Someone down the pub before Christmas asked me about starting up his own window cleaning business and was very miffed when I asked him how much he was prepared to pay for that knowledge.
As a rule, most successful business's want to keep how they do it a secret as far as they can.
My advice to new starters has always been the same - look through twenty pages of posts and see whose posts make sense (might add, are well written and calm). Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read them all. It's what I did six years ago; weeks with a notebook (literally weeks and I still have the notebook) taking the best ideas from everyone on here. It's all already out there for anyone who wants it. This site contains a perfect guide whether it's how to start, run well day-to-day, work as a one-man-band, expand, employ or franchise. As ever though, it takes work. So it's much easier to ask the question, get the opinion of the person who shouts the loudest and head off without planning.
I want professional, capable competition. Sounds odd but I don't want customers to think that window cleaners are out to earn enough money to get to the pub at lunchtime. The more professional we all are, the better. The fewer people there are turning up in tracky bottoms and a dirty vest and charging £3.50 for a house the better it is for everyone doing a decent job.
Plus, as I've mentioned above, there is so much business out there that the difficulty isn't competition, it's being set up to be able to cover the work available.
Vin
When i came back to window cleaning this is what i did. I found a couple of gems on here and just one bit of advice/marketing tip resulted in fantastic results on new builds.
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@Solar Steve
As you know your restrictions were nothing to do with popularity of threads but due to complaints about "sailing close to the wind" on breaking advertising rules.
"Sailing close to the wind" is not breaking the rules. Doing 30 mph in a 30 mph limit is sailing close to the wind, but it is not breaking the law.
Look back through recent threads and you will see I did not bring up the offending subject, others did. That is not advertising, that's being advertised. It's actually a more effective advert, so I thank those people. :)
Well, Steve like some on here don't like some of your posts, some on here don't like moderators' decisions - but as you illustrate -sometimes via happy serendipity we get what we want without testing the boundaries.
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So can I just clarify Vin? franchising a window cleaning business does work, and, it can be built up mainly using leaflets?
Sorry but that's just impossible!
:)
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So can I just clarify Vin? franchising a window cleaning business does work, and, it can be built up mainly using leaflets?
Sorry but that's just impossible!
:)
Leaflets work but only if your one of the top 10% of window cleaners.
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😂😂
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So can I just clarify Vin? franchising a window cleaning business does work, and, it can be built up mainly using leaflets?
Sorry but that's just impossible!
:)
I know, what was I thinking?
Vin
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
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So can I just clarify Vin? franchising a window cleaning business does work, and, it can be built up mainly using leaflets?
Sorry but that's just impossible!
:)
;D
Leaflets work but only if your one of the top 10% of window cleaners.
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
Yawn
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Double yawn......
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You are so wrong about leaflets they start a lovely fire. 💥💥💥💥
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
Yawn
Aww, c'mon Chumbucket Micky, is that the best you could manage with an open goal in front of you? Must try harder.
Vin
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This has got to be the longest advert I've ever watched,blimey John Lewis have got nothing on you have they.
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so where do i send the invoice vin ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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so where do i send the invoice vin ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Who exactly are you?
Vin
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Well done Vin I love to here a success story.
Don't you just love the yawners who spew their crap out when someone is doing well?
As for me mate, success needs to be toasted, so I raise my glass to you bud.
Trippy
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Hi Vin I don't know if you new pal there are other threads on this forum you can help or have an opinion on you know.
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so where do i send the invoice vin ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Who exactly are you?
Vin
:'( :'( :'( :'(
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
7th? Wow! How can you find those stats Vin. I have to have one in the top 10! ;D
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
7th? Wow! How can you find those stats Vin. I have to have one in the top 10! ;D
6th now. Your best is 19th, probably due to how uncontroversial your posts are.
This has also reached third in the list of most replies but is still 200 replies short of the first Vision thread.
Vin
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
7th? Wow! How can you find those stats Vin. I have to have one in the top 10! ;D
6th now. Your best is 19th, probably due to how uncontroversial your posts are.
This has also reached third in the list of most replies but is still 200 replies short of the first Vision thread.
Vin
19th? Oh man. I feel I've let myself down. I will try hard with my next thread to court a little controversy.
Maybe I could post about the best brush to use on cladding or something...
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This is now the 7th most viewed (non advert) thread ever on this site.
Any excuse for willy-waving, eh?
Vin
7th? Wow! How can you find those stats Vin. I have to have one in the top 10! ;D
6th now. Your best is 19th, probably due to how uncontroversial your posts are.
This has also reached third in the list of most replies but is still 200 replies short of the first Vision thread.
Vin
19th? Oh man. I feel I've let myself down. I will try hard with my next thread to court a little controversy.
Maybe I could post about the best brush to use on cladding or something...
And with that snide remark you've dropped to a very unprofessional level.
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This thread has run it's course.
LOCKED