Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on February 01, 2016, 08:22:12 am
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i recently bought a supreme medium mixed bristle brush(a few months ago)and ive only used it a handful of times and its gone badly out of shape already.i use it with hot water(about 35degrees)so not too hot.i liked the softer bristle versions but this version is not robust enough IMO.
I dont like to slate alexs products usually as his company supply the best poles out there and customer service and delivery is excellent.
however i dont think some of his brushes are up to the job TBH.
the xline mono brushes are far better quality IMO esp with hot water.they keep their shape and have more densely packed bristles.
sorry alex!
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Got to agree i have had an Xtreme brush since 7th Dec so about 7 weeks use and had to change it on Friday as the scrubbing ability just isn't their any more it would struggle to manage with small marks on windows .
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Neither one of those brushes is going to last with hot water you need the stiff brushes for that.
Iv just bought a Supreme medium mixed after the last debate on brushes and have to be honest I am finding it better
compared to the Xtreme plus the weight difference is hardly noticeable, never had any problems with the Xtreme not lasting
though.
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i recently bought a supreme medium mixed bristle brush(a few months ago)and ive only used it a handful of times and its gone badly out of shape already.i use it with hot water(about 35degrees)so not too hot.i liked the softer bristle versions but this version is not robust enough IMO.
I dont like to slate alexs products usually as his company supply the best poles out there and customer service and delivery is excellent.
however i dont think some of his brushes are up to the job TBH.
the xline mono brushes are far better quality IMO esp with hot water.they keep their shape and have more densely packed bristles.
sorry alex!
Hi Dazmond
We do supply a wide variety of brushes to appeal to different users and conditions. The Supreme brushes are a fast easy splay brush with very different design and use characteristics to the X-Line mono brushes. If using hot water, which you are, the Supreme to use with hot water would be the Supreme stiff which is better designed to cope with the hotter water and still be efficient in its wide splay style.
It is always important to compare like for like with brushes. For instance the closest brush to compare with an X-line mono is the Super-lite Medium-mixed (which when assembled are both the same weight). This way you are comparing a brush designed to perform in a similar way at a similar weight and size.
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Got to agree i have had an Xtreme brush since 7th Dec so about 7 weeks use and had to change it on Friday as the scrubbing ability just isn't their any more it would struggle to manage with small marks on windows .
The Xtreme is a more specialist brush for those who rate light weight above everything else. Whilst thousands of users love them and use them for all maintenance cleaning, they do not suit everyone and do not have the longevity of a bigger, denser brush such as the Super-Lite brushes.
We will soon be bringing out the Ultimate, which aims to be a good balance between the light weight of the Xtreme and the coverage, cleaning ability and longevity of a Super-Lite. I think that this will appeal to those who like the light weight of an Xtreme, but want a bit more substance and bite on the glass.
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Neither one of those brushes is going to last with hot water you need the stiff brushes for that.
Iv just bought a Supreme medium mixed after the last debate on brushes and have to be honest I am finding it better
compared to the Xtreme plus the weight difference is hardly noticeable, never had any problems with the Xtreme not lasting
though.
Hi Sean
Could you drop me an email on alex@agardiner.co.uk :)
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Got to agree i have had an Xtreme brush since 7th Dec so about 7 weeks use and had to change it on Friday as the scrubbing ability just isn't their any more it would struggle to manage with small marks on windows .
The Xtreme is a more specialist brush for those who rate light weight above everything else. Whilst thousands of users love them and use them for all maintenance cleaning, they do not suit everyone and do not have the longevity of a bigger, denser brush such as the Super-Lite brushes.
We will soon be bringing out the Ultimate, which aims to be a good balance between the light weight of the Xtreme and the coverage, cleaning ability and longevity of a Super-Lite. I think that this will appeal to those who like the light weight of an Xtreme, but want a bit more substance and bite on the glass.
Thanks for the response Alex the Xtreme brushes are my favourite i have almost always bought the lightest brushes you offer but have tried other brushes in your range but the bit of extra weight has not been good for my shoulder , Very much looking forward to the new brush once available .
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i recently bought a supreme medium mixed bristle brush(a few months ago)and ive only used it a handful of times and its gone badly out of shape already.i use it with hot water(about 35degrees)so not too hot.i liked the softer bristle versions but this version is not robust enough IMO.
I dont like to slate alexs products usually as his company supply the best poles out there and customer service and delivery is excellent.
however i dont think some of his brushes are up to the job TBH.
the xline mono brushes are far better quality IMO esp with hot water.they keep their shape and have more densely packed bristles.
sorry alex!
No you're not getting the brush replaced free of charge :P
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Got to agree i have had an Xtreme brush since 7th Dec so about 7 weeks use and had to change it on Friday as the scrubbing ability just isn't their any more it would struggle to manage with small marks on windows .
The Xtreme is a more specialist brush for those who rate light weight above everything else. Whilst thousands of users love them and use them for all maintenance cleaning, they do not suit everyone and do not have the longevity of a bigger, denser brush such as the Super-Lite brushes.
We will soon be bringing out the Ultimate, which aims to be a good balance between the light weight of the Xtreme and the coverage, cleaning ability and longevity of a Super-Lite. I think that this will appeal to those who like the light weight of an Xtreme, but want a bit more substance and bite on the glass.
having used nothing but gardiners i ordered an xline to try after all the raving comments and it scrubbed great but weight is a big issue for me with my joints and im a regular supreme flocked user, i found the xline more heavy and found the stock stuck out too much when wiping across the sills and catched them and like Alex says more comparable to the superlite which was just too heavy for me personally over the day.
ive got a load of extreme and supremes now but i stick with the supremes, i too use hot water but dont seem to have any issues myself with the brush but i only use the water at about 35 degrees luke warm as i dont trust it anymore after cracking a window a few years back!!
cant wait untill the ultimate comes out but ive heard good reviews too about the new facelift neon on the facebook pages and it sounds comparable to the supremes in weight.
it looks the same as the xline too and wcw brushes, i wonder if theyre made by the same manufacturer?
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Got to agree i have had an Xtreme brush since 7th Dec so about 7 weeks use and had to change it on Friday as the scrubbing ability just isn't their any more it would struggle to manage with small marks on windows .
The Xtreme is a more specialist brush for those who rate light weight above everything else. Whilst thousands of users love them and use them for all maintenance cleaning, they do not suit everyone and do not have the longevity of a bigger, denser brush such as the Super-Lite brushes.
We will soon be bringing out the Ultimate, which aims to be a good balance between the light weight of the Xtreme and the coverage, cleaning ability and longevity of a Super-Lite. I think that this will appeal to those who like the light weight of an Xtreme, but want a bit more substance and bite on the glass.
having used nothing but gardiners i ordered an xline to try after all the raving comments and it scrubbed great but weight is a big issue for me with my joints and im a regular supreme flocked user, i found the xline more heavy and found the stock stuck out too much when wiping across the sills and catched them and like Alex says more comparable to the superlite which was just too heavy for me personally over the day.
ive got a load of extreme and supremes now but i stick with the supremes, i too use hot water but dont seem to have any issues myself with the brush but i only use the water at about 35 degrees luke warm as i dont trust it anymore after cracking a window a few years back!!
cant wait untill the ultimate comes out but ive heard good reviews too about the new facelift neon on the facebook pages and it sounds comparable to the supremes in weight.
it looks the same as the xline too and wcw brushes, i wonder if theyre made by the same manufacturer?
Thanks for the feedback.
The facelift neon and the X-line are the same brushes (virtually) they come from the same factory and use the same base stock. I imagine that facelift have reduced the bristle count slightly compared to the X-Line to reduce the weight by the extra 7g.
Interestingly both these firms now use our UK manufacturing factory that we have been using for Gardiner brushes for the last 7 years or so. So their stock material, bristle material and bristle fastening is now the same as Gardiner brushes always have been :)
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Got to agree i have had an Xtreme brush since 7th Dec so about 7 weeks use and had to change it on Friday as the scrubbing ability just isn't their any more it would struggle to manage with small marks on windows .
The Xtreme is a more specialist brush for those who rate light weight above everything else. Whilst thousands of users love them and use them for all maintenance cleaning, they do not suit everyone and do not have the longevity of a bigger, denser brush such as the Super-Lite brushes.
We will soon be bringing out the Ultimate, which aims to be a good balance between the light weight of the Xtreme and the coverage, cleaning ability and longevity of a Super-Lite. I think that this will appeal to those who like the light weight of an Xtreme, but want a bit more substance and bite on the glass.
having used nothing but gardiners i ordered an xline to try after all the raving comments and it scrubbed great but weight is a big issue for me with my joints and im a regular supreme flocked user, i found the xline more heavy and found the stock stuck out too much when wiping across the sills and catched them and like Alex says more comparable to the superlite which was just too heavy for me personally over the day.
ive got a load of extreme and supremes now but i stick with the supremes, i too use hot water but dont seem to have any issues myself with the brush but i only use the water at about 35 degrees luke warm as i dont trust it anymore after cracking a window a few years back!!
cant wait untill the ultimate comes out but ive heard good reviews too about the new facelift neon on the facebook pages and it sounds comparable to the supremes in weight.
it looks the same as the xline too and wcw brushes, i wonder if theyre made by the same manufacturer?
Thanks for the feedback.
The facelift neon and the X-line are the same brushes (virtually) they come from the same factory and use the same base stock. I imagine that facelift have reduced the bristle count slightly compared to the X-Line to reduce the weight by the extra 7g.
Interestingly both these firms now use our UK manufacturing factory that we have been using for Gardiner brushes for the last 7 years or so. So their stock material, bristle material and bristle fastening is now the same as Gardiner brushes always have been :)
If their bristle material is the same how come their bristles keep their shape better and last longer than gardiner brushes ?
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If their bristle material is the same how come their bristles keep their shape better and last longer than gardiner brushes ?
It really does depend which of the Gardiner brushes you are comparing to the xline brush. For the current closest 'like for like' brush you would need to compare either the Super-Lite Medium-Mixed, Super-Lite Flocked or Super-Lite Stiff brushes. These are almost exactly the same weight as the xline brushes (when both assembled with jets and socket) and have great longevity and keep their shape just as well as the xline brushes. The Super-Lite brushes are our best-selling brushes, the rest of the ranges are provided to appeal to those for whom the standard brushes are either too heavy or do not work the glass in the way that they like - personally I prefer using either the Supreme Soft-Hybrid or the Xtremes.
However if you are comparing it to other brushes from the Gardiner range then the style, weight and design of the brushes will affect their robustness and longevity. For instance a Supreme Soft Hybrid brush is a very different brush, it has much softer bristles and has a very wide splay for fast easy cleaning. However it will not have the longevity of the stiffer bristles on the xline brush, it will also not cope with hot water as well, being a softer brush.
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
Thanks for you opinion NWH :)
Perhaps it's the orange colour throwing you off!
They are exactly the same material as our white, black and red mono-filament material - they all have the same glossy finish and also are the same material according to the tech specs given to me by the manufacturer. Of course there are different sizes of diameter which do affect the feel along with the length of bristles used in a brush which changes the feel.
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
Thanks for you opinion NWH :)
;D
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I'm looking forward to trying one of the new brushes. I like the Xtreme brushes (and so do my poor elbows) but my brushes tend to wear out at the ends. Alex, could you design the bristles at each end of the brush (say 25mm in from the ends) to be stiffer than the rest of the brush? But then I guess 'wear and tear' is something we just have to live with. In an ideal world my round would be all bungalows (easier on the elbows) with a short pole and a radius sill brush. Oh and all my customers would be Melinda Messenger! ;D
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I think it's fair to say, that all brushes perform better when new, but all lose scrubbing power after a few months ( you may still have all your bristles but they defo lose power ) so whichever brush you have should be changed every 6 to 8 months depending on how much it's used
Darran
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I'm looking forward to these new brushes, they sound ideal- a middle ground between Super Lite and Xtreme. Bring 'em on!! :)
I tend to agree with Smudger that all brushes lose some degree of effectiveness over time regardless of visual integrity.
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I'd like to know what particular brush your comparing it with in the range,I have the vast majority of them to compared it to. The only one that looks anything like it in glossy bristles is the black flocked version,there has not been a Gardiner brush I've used that's the same as the orange Xline.
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I'm looking forward to trying one of the new brushes. I like the Xtreme brushes (and so do my poor elbows) but my brushes tend to wear out at the ends. Alex, could you design the bristles at each end of the brush (say 25mm in from the ends) to be stiffer than the rest of the brush? But then I guess 'wear and tear' is something we just have to live with. In an ideal world my round would be all bungalows (easier on the elbows) with a short pole and a radius sill brush. Oh and all my customers would be Melinda Messenger! ;D
If you want to reduce the edge 'wear & tear' on an Xtreme brush then you can always fit this brush bumper to them - http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brushes/brush-head-attachments/super-litear-brush-bumper.html
Of course it will add a little weight though.
In my ideal window cleaning world it would always be sunny ;D
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I'd like to know what particular brush your comparing it with in the range,I have the vast majority of them to compared it to. The only one that looks anything like it in glossy bristles is the black flocked version,there has not been a Gardiner brush I've used that's the same as the orange Xline.
Below is a photo showing the xline bristles against the white bristles used in our current Super-Lites, Supremes, Xtremes, Sills and the new Ultimate and Super-Lite Compact (pictured). Exactly the same level of gloss and the same surface feel.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1454348905_2016-02-01 17.31.52.jpg)
Of course the shiny feel will wear off of any bristles given 6-12 months of use and exposure to UV light over time.
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I think the Xlines are very similar to the Superlights. The main difference I feel is that the Xline has less difference in bristle length between the inner and outer rows - they've accidentally produced a brush that works very well. In my opinion brushes should be squared off at the ends to match the windows. For me the Supremes are oversplayed and the wrong shape. I'm amazed Xtremes do anything at all their bristle count is so sparse but they do. Wasn't that long a go we were using Bentley brushes :o
PS what's a Superlight Compact?
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Fair enough where the picture is concerned but they definitely do not clean the same IMO,the Xline all be it a good brush as well as the Gardiner is still to heavy. I don't think there is an argument for the supreme brushes some on here have said they like them I do not,those same people have also said they can't tell the difference between an extreme brush and a standard superlite so I don't think I'll be listening to them anytime soon eh.
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I easily get 6 months out of an Xtreme. When the top corners start to go I just turn the quiklok stock around. They do look a bit shabby quite quickly, but they still work fine - even on my work which you might guess is 8 weekly. I'll switch to something heavier for first cleans only.
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I think the Xlines are very similar to the Superlights. The main difference I feel is that the Xline has less difference in bristle length between the inner and outer rows - they've accidentally produced a brush that works very well. In my opinion brushes should be squared off at the ends to match the windows. For me the Supremes are oversplayed and the wrong shape. I'm amazed Xtremes do anything at all their bristle count is so sparse but they do. Wasn't that long a go we were using Bentley brushes :o
PS what's a Superlight Compact?
New brush coming in about 6 weeks time - based on the Super-Lite but slightly lighter (-40g) with shorter bristles to give a more direct feel on the glass. The dual-trim on it is also less pronounced which some clients prefer. http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brushes/super-lite-window-cleaning-brushes-245g-270g/super-lite-compact-brush-coming-soon.html
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Extremes are lovely and light but just go and find me one for leads,there is so much chat about brushes and that's all well and good but I've yet to find a similar brush for lead light Windows. I'm using a brush is extreme which is the very 1st version it's the only extreme a good for leads or oldish leads anyway,yeah other brushes work if you tilt them in use and use half the brush at a time. Hell of a lot of bouncers out there jumping around on the glass like they've been cattle prodded.
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Any chance of a picture looking into the bristles Alex? Could be my next fav brush.
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Fair enough where the picture is concerned but they definitely do not clean the same IMO,the Xline all be it a good brush as well as the Gardiner is still to heavy. I don't think there is an argument for the supreme brushes some on here have said they like them I do not,those same people have also said they can't tell the difference between an extreme brush and a standard superlite so I don't think I'll be listening to them anytime soon eh.
I agree there is more to a brush than its glossy bristle feel - the design, layout, density, diameter and length of bristles all make a difference to the way the brush works on the glass. This does allow for great variety, which is good as there are many different preferences in window cleaners.
I would agree that the Supreme brushes are definitely not for you and I wouldn't recommend that you use one. I know from our past communications that you prefer a much more compact splay, in fact virtually no splay, to suit the high proportion of historic, leaded and sash windows that you clean on your rounds. I would say that probably no-one else has the same window types in the volumes that you encounter in your work.
Personally I think that the new Super-Lite Compact or even the Ultimate would be better suited your work than a standard Super-Lite or a Supreme. I have a feeling that the Super-Lite compact will gradually replace the zero degree Super-Lite brushes from our range.
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Stick those orange bristles on an extreme brush stock and there's your brush lol
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for me supremes are the ideal brush as i always found superlites scrubbed well but too much weight and extremes were brilliant for the lightness but i always felt like i wasnt cleaning the windows as good as the superlite, when the supreme came out especially the soft and flocked version i absolutely loved the way it spread on the window and having a curved smaller stock helped the way i wipe across the sills along with the way the bristles stick out at an angle.
ive got 2 supremes from when you did the brush deal when you first released them Alex and theyve still got loads of life in,even using the warm water with them.
cant wait for the ultimate to be released now, do you have any sneaky pics of them Alex ;D
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Any chance of a picture looking into the bristles Alex? Could be my next fav brush.
Here we go....
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1454351361_2016-02-01 18.15.04.jpg)
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Cheers :)
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that looks very similar to xline to me pal just like you said, i preferred the fact you have extra holes for additional jets if needed, xline didnt have that on the one i bought.
i like to have both fans and pencils fitted depending what mood im in or day of the week it is :D
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how long for the ultimate release Alex?
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http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brushes/super-lite-window-cleaning-brushes-245g-270g/super-lite-compact-brush-coming-soon.html
coming soon ??? been waiting for ages! :'(
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for me supremes are the ideal brush as i always found superlites scrubbed well but too much weight and extremes were brilliant for the lightness but i always felt like i wasnt cleaning the windows as good as the superlite, when the supreme came out especially the soft and flocked version i absolutely loved the way it spread on the window and having a curved smaller stock helped the way i wipe across the sills along with the way the bristles stick out at an angle.
ive got 2 supremes from when you did the brush deal when you first released them Alex and theyve still got loads of life in,even using the warm water with them.
cant wait for the ultimate to be released now, do you have any sneaky pics of them Alex ;D
Glad you like them. The Supreme brushes do appeal very strongly to a certain segment of the market (myself included). Although I do switch back to an Xtreme every so often as they are so light.
Here is a sneaky photo of the new Ultimate:
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1454351927_2016-02-01 18.23.jpg)
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how long for the ultimate release Alex?
If it had gone as smoothly as anticipated it would have been January 1st :) The trouble is that many different variables out of my control can get in the way of the design/supply process.
I am in final version testing now, with hopefully product on the shelves early March.
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Got to feel sorry for the Gardiners girls - i've got a headache already. Maybe I need a compact ultimate brush or was it a superlight extreme brush? Where's my pills?
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
Thanks for you opinion NWH :)
Perhaps it's the orange colour throwing you off!
They are exactly the same material as our white, black and red mono-filament material - they all have the same glossy finish and also are the same material according to the tech specs given to me by the manufacturer. Of course there are different sizes of diameter which do affect the feel along with the length of bristles used in a brush which changes the feel.
alex we have stopped using your brushes because we found that they fall to bits and go out of shape much quicker for us this is doing your like 4 like in your last post , why is that ?
again in your own words " not as many bristles to save weight " do you think you have took to many out of your sill brushes for this very reason ? MAYBE you have took to many out ? I would love to go back on your your brushes but I would like them to last longer
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Have to say IMO the xline mono is a significantly better brush than the sl medium mixed.
Found the medium hybrid supreme nice to use and seems to do a reasonable job but does not deal well with bird strikes.
The new ultimate brush sounds interesting.
Current favourite brush is the xline - mono and flocked both good.
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
Thanks for you opinion NWH :)
Perhaps it's the orange colour throwing you off!
They are exactly the same material as our white, black and red mono-filament material - they all have the same glossy finish and also are the same material according to the tech specs given to me by the manufacturer. Of course there are different sizes of diameter which do affect the feel along with the length of bristles used in a brush which changes the feel.
alex we have stopped using your brushes because we found that they fall to bits and go out of shape much quicker for us this is doing your like 4 like in your last post , why is that ?
again in your own words " not as many bristles to save weight " do you think you have took to many out of your sill brushes for this very reason ? MAYBE you have took to many out ? I would love to go back on your your brushes but I would like them to last longer
Hi Susan
With regard to our Sill brushes, compared to other traditional Sill brushes they do have a lot less bristles (and about half the weight). Because of this if used with the same technique as the heavier brushes, the bristles may not last as long due to impacting with window reveals etc.
The solution is to go for a heavier Sill brush if the robustness is of greatest concern or the lighter Gardiner Sill brushes if the brush matches the technique needed.
I have just received an email from a long-term client who would repeatedly have premature side wear on our lightweight brushes. Over a period of time we discussed that the 'wear' was actually from over-enthusiastic contact between the brush and brick and masonry reveals. After adjusting his technique he now finds that the same brushes no longer suffer from premature wear. Same lightweight brush, same work, different technique.
If the brushes are in the hands of staff, then the more robust (albeit heavier) option may be the better choice.
We do have a radical new Sill brush design which has just been tooled, which is different again to anything currently on the market - this may prove better able to adsorb the side wear that often causes early bristle failure whilst still be of a lightweight design. Perhaps this will better suit your Sill brush needs when it arrives - it would be good to win you back :)
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Got to feel sorry for the Gardiners girls - i've got a headache already. Maybe I need a compact ultimate brush or was it a superlight extreme brush? Where's my pills?
;D ;D
I do get a lot of 'comments' from the staff about number of brush types, although mainly from the warehouse team. We now have a complete new warehouse just for brush assembly and storage.
There is a new video planned to help simplify the choice process.
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
Thanks for you opinion NWH :)
Perhaps it's the orange colour throwing you off!
They are exactly the same material as our white, black and red mono-filament material - they all have the same glossy finish and also are the same material according to the tech specs given to me by the manufacturer. Of course there are different sizes of diameter which do affect the feel along with the length of bristles used in a brush which changes the feel.
alex we have stopped using your brushes because we found that they fall to bits and go out of shape much quicker for us this is doing your like 4 like in your last post , why is that ?
again in your own words " not as many bristles to save weight " do you think you have took to many out of your sill brushes for this very reason ? MAYBE you have took to many out ? I would love to go back on your your brushes but I would like them to last longer
Hi Susan
With regard to our Sill brushes, compared to other traditional Sill brushes they do have a lot less bristles (and about half the weight). Because of this if used with the same technique as the heavier brushes, the bristles may not last as long due to impacting with window reveals etc.
The solution is to go for a heavier Sill brush if the robustness is of greatest concern or the lighter Gardiner Sill brushes if the brush matches the technique needed.
I have just received an email from a long-term client who would repeatedly have premature side wear on our lightweight brushes. Over a period of time we discussed that the 'wear' was actually from over-enthusiastic contact between the brush and brick and masonry reveals. After adjusting his technique he now finds that the same brushes no longer suffer from premature wear. Same lightweight brush, same work, different technique.
If the brushes are in the hands of staff, then the more robust (albeit heavier) option may be the better choice.
We do have a radical new Sill brush design which has just been tooled, which is different again to anything currently on the market - this may prove better able to adsorb the side wear that often causes early bristle failure whilst still be of a lightweight design. Perhaps this will better suit your Sill brush needs when ti arrives - it would be good to win you back :)
yes your . right , the staff are hard on them , however the customers like the way we clean and get all the frames clean we could try and change the way staff clean but as you well know once you do this it opens the door to bad habits
all ready looking forward to the new sill brush and I will buy one as soon as it comes to market
thanks for the reply all ways good to hear theres a new sill brush comeing to market that will last longer and not weigh a lot :D
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Xline bristles the same are they mmmmm I couldn't obviously prove it but If I had to give my opinion I would say they are not the same,the orange bristles are almost silky in feel and appearance they do not look or feel the same to me at all.
Thanks for you opinion NWH :)
Perhaps it's the orange colour throwing you off!
They are exactly the same material as our white, black and red mono-filament material - they all have the same glossy finish and also are the same material according to the tech specs given to me by the manufacturer. Of course there are different sizes of diameter which do affect the feel along with the length of bristles used in a brush which changes the feel.
alex we have stopped using your brushes because we found that they fall to bits and go out of shape much quicker for us this is doing your like 4 like in your last post , why is that ?
again in your own words " not as many bristles to save weight " do you think you have took to many out of your sill brushes for this very reason ? MAYBE you have took to many out ? I would love to go back on your your brushes but I would like them to last longer
Hi Susan
With regard to our Sill brushes, compared to other traditional Sill brushes they do have a lot less bristles (and about half the weight). Because of this if used with the same technique as the heavier brushes, the bristles may not last as long due to impacting with window reveals etc.
The solution is to go for a heavier Sill brush if the robustness is of greatest concern or the lighter Gardiner Sill brushes if the brush matches the technique needed.
I have just received an email from a long-term client who would repeatedly have premature side wear on our lightweight brushes. Over a period of time we discussed that the 'wear' was actually from over-enthusiastic contact between the brush and brick and masonry reveals. After adjusting his technique he now finds that the same brushes no longer suffer from premature wear. Same lightweight brush, same work, different technique.
If the brushes are in the hands of staff, then the more robust (albeit heavier) option may be the better choice.
We do have a radical new Sill brush design which has just been tooled, which is different again to anything currently on the market - this may prove better able to adsorb the side wear that often causes early bristle failure whilst still be of a lightweight design. Perhaps this will better suit your Sill brush needs when ti arrives - it would be good to win you back :)
The new sill brush sounds interesting.
I have an xline sill brush on my gutter/fascia/conservatory cleaning pole. Whilst it is an absolute beast at getting through dirt, it has the feel of vikan sill brush, weighty and bulky.
I use to be an avid fan of your brushes Alex, they just weren't cut out for the brutality I inflicted upon them lol. At one point I was going through a new sill brush every 6-8 weeks.
Even the super lights I could only get 10 weeks Max before they were deformed. Supremes were were similar to sill brushes.
How is it my xline still looks near mint after over 3 months continuous use if they are made of the same stuff as super lights? Is it purely bristle density?
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The new sill brush sounds interesting.
I have an xline sill brush on my gutter/fascia/conservatory cleaning pole. Whilst it is an absolute beast at getting through dirt, it has the feel of vikan sill brush, weighty and bulky.
I use to be an avid fan of your brushes Alex, they just weren't cut out for the brutality I inflicted upon them lol. At one point I was going through a new sill brush every 6-8 weeks.
Even the super lights I could only get 10 weeks Max before they were deformed. Supremes were were similar to sill brushes.
How is it my xline still looks near mint after over 3 months continuous use if they are made of the same stuff as super lights? Is it purely bristle density?
Everyone does have different techniques and needs from a brush :) The point is choose what works best for you.
I think reading your explanation of working approach, that the reason the xline brush is still in shape is probably down to the shorter length of the bristles compared to the Super-Lite bristle length. The shorter a bristle is the more stiff and solid it will feel also as they will not splay out as far (especially on the sides) as the Super-Lite they will tend to come into less contact with the more abrasive masonry reveals etc. That would be my reckoning on this.
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for me supremes are the ideal brush as i always found superlites scrubbed well but too much weight and extremes were brilliant for the lightness but i always felt like i wasnt cleaning the windows as good as the superlite, when the supreme came out especially the soft and flocked version i absolutely loved the way it spread on the window and having a curved smaller stock helped the way i wipe across the sills along with the way the bristles stick out at an angle.
ive got 2 supremes from when you did the brush deal when you first released them Alex and theyve still got loads of life in,even using the warm water with them.
cant wait for the ultimate to be released now, do you have any sneaky pics of them Alex ;D
+1
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The new sill brush sounds interesting.
I have an xline sill brush on my gutter/fascia/conservatory cleaning pole. Whilst it is an absolute beast at getting through dirt, it has the feel of vikan sill brush, weighty and bulky.
I use to be an avid fan of your brushes Alex, they just weren't cut out for the brutality I inflicted upon them lol. At one point I was going through a new sill brush every 6-8 weeks.
Even the super lights I could only get 10 weeks Max before they were deformed. Supremes were were similar to sill brushes.
How is it my xline still looks near mint after over 3 months continuous use if they are made of the same stuff as super lights? Is it purely bristle density?
Everyone does have different techniques and needs from a brush :) The point is choose what works best for you.
I think reading your explanation of working approach, that the reason the xline brush is still in shape is probably down to the shorter length of the bristles compared to the Super-Lite bristle length. The shorter a bristle is the more stiff and solid it will feel also as they will not splay out as far (especially on the sides) as the Super-Lite they will tend to come into less contact with the more abrasive masonry reveals etc. That would be I disagreeessment.
I suppose for my particular style there's no middle ground. I want a brush that splays well but has the robustness to hold its shape for at least 12 weeks use. The xline is the closest thing iv found so far.
There was a brush I tested for you a while ago Alex, it was an absolute dream to use. It was a new sill prototype. I destroyed it in a few weeks lol but if it held its shape longer it would of been my perfect brush.
I will definitely give your new brushes a try when there released. The ultimate looks interesting, I'm due to order a few bits soon so will hang on for that.
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One thing the Xline brush does have is three rows of outside bristles and more bristles at the ends where you need them. The Gardiners brushes I've used if my memory serves me right only have two outside rows and a single outside row at the ends. Whether there is any difference in the total number of bristles in the stock - I haven't got a clue. I'm wondering if it's simply the density of bristles that for me at least makes it more appealing. I can't really put my finger on the difference. (although I do like the orange and black colour) :D After all the stock is a bit too big, fan jets nothing special so they say and if they ever go VAT registered then they will be too expensive anyway.
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The proof will be in the using of it that's the acid test,I have brushes and have used brushes that look like nothing more than the incredible hulks toothbrush but they are brilliant to clean with. As for sill brushes I really can't see it and good WFPoler should be able to do sills without damaging sills etc with a good technique sill brushes IMO are awkward to use. I think most people will find that the window needs to be good to look out of ie clean,having clean sills to a point you need a brush for it IMO is overkill although I would expect people that sell them love people who buy them. Alex must be a multi millionaire by now or there's something wrong lol
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He cant be , i hear he still cleans his own windows !!!
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Lol I'm thinking of getting a warehouse and filling it full of poles brushes and every component to do with this business just for the fun of it too lol,no need for dragons den here his competition is him. If you were to have been in outer space for 10 years and landed back on earth and googled WFP you would think you were seeing the same stuff for sale by everyone else that supplies WFP equipment including so called big players like ionic and even they have tried to steal the lateral clamp idea. Is there a pole or anything else you'd buy from another supplier on quality alone I wouldn't.
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For my last post Alex I would like an Extreme in every size please including all the new higer pole versions all with hot hose lol lol 😂😂😂😂😂
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NWH , funny you should mention the museum bit , i just went to the shed and found this little red bristled beauty , bought 2 of them many moons ago , this is the only survivor , the first was going great guns when i stupidly stowed the pole on the roof of the van to go and collect , when i came back some scrote had robbed the lot , just cut the hose at the pole base where i wedged it in the locked door !
Now those bristles were top dollar , im too affraid to use this one as hes like a brother to me !!!
But just to add to that , my second pic is my 10 month old extreme used every day without fail .........wait ......i only do 4 hours a day so you could say its only seen 5 months on the glass , but come on that aint bad goin for the return its given me is it ?
Plenty of life left in it too , wonder what i could get on Ebay !!!
Rich
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for me supremes are the ideal brush as i always found superlites scrubbed well but too much weight and extremes were brilliant for the lightness but i always felt like i wasnt cleaning the windows as good as the superlite, when the supreme came out especially the soft and flocked version i absolutely loved the way it spread on the window and having a curved smaller stock helped the way i wipe across the sills along with the way the bristles stick out at an angle.
ive got 2 supremes from when you did the brush deal when you first released them Alex and theyve still got loads of life in,even using the warm water with them.
cant wait for the ultimate to be released now, do you have any sneaky pics of them Alex ;D
Glad you like them. The Supreme brushes do appeal very strongly to a certain segment of the market (myself included). Although I do switch back to an Xtreme every so often as they are so light.
Here is a sneaky photo of the new Ultimate:
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1454351927_2016-02-01 18.23.jpg)
Could very well be my perfect brush , I said a while back a lighter brush similar to the S/L would be ideal as it would protect the brush ends far better for those that catch window reveals .
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Alex.
Bought one of your sumpreme soft hybrid brushes 2 months ago and sad to see one side brush curled.
Maybe I'm too heavy handed, just received my order of medium mixed supreme 0 degree just used today. 1st impression, very good.
Also got another supreme soft hybrid but will only use for odd delicate leads.
Too much choice😁
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All the extremes I have all curl up on one side and even when dipped in boiling water them still curl up again,the worst culprit for this is the medium mixed version of the black and white one.
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Alex.
Bought one of your sumpreme soft hybrid brushes 2 months ago and sad to see one side brush curled.
Maybe I'm too heavy handed, just received my order of medium mixed supreme 0 degree just used today. 1st impression, very good.
Also got another supreme soft hybrid but will only use for odd delicate leads.
Too much choice😁
Correct me if wrong but I cannot find a 0 degree supreme.
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I rarely use gardiners brushes as the bristles fall out so quickly. The brushes take a lot of elbow grease to remove stubborn marks, bird poop. etc. The worst ones are the ultimate bush (the last one they brought out). I rarely use them anymore as they are hard work and there are other suppliers with better quality and better scrubbing power brushes. This feedback maybe negative but I'm just telling it as it is. Their poles are in a league of their own, especially the extreme range. Postal service and customer service is extremely good and can't fault it. Just wish their brushes were better.
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Unfortunately, due to elbow problems, I am limited to Xtreme brushes for anything above ground floor. I even tried the supreme and that was still a tad heavy. I think that for the weight, the Xtreme is a very clever designed brush and I am quite happy with it but I would be happy to try any other manufacturers' brush, if only they were light enough.
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I'm looking forward to trying the new ones they look like a mini version of the standard brushes,I did say if he wanted to know if there any good let me try em the work I do has nearly every combination of window possible lol. What did make me laugh was seeing a wagga video of him getting his SLX pole must have been a freebie he still uses Harris poles,he didn't seem that impressed but when he tried a constuctor brush he nearly wet himself with joy 😂😂😂😂
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I've used extremes this last few weeks and the results have been not good,I did another today and as I was going a looked at a particular window and it looked awful barely scratched the surface of the dirt I had to go back and do quiet a few again. I don't know what's been in the wind but it's not like the normal dirt you get on the glass
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When I'm choosing a brush, the most important factor is which brush scrubs the best with minimal effort, if it bounces across leaded windows in either direction, then weight, then last of all how long I can use it before it falls to bits.
Also, gardiners jets are fitted too close together if using four jets, they need to be spaced out more equally. My favourite brush is the newish one that streamline brought out a few months ago as the bristles are brilliant for scrubbing, the jets are equally spaced out, the jets can be fitted or removed in seconds and the build quality is far superior. IMO it is better than xlines brush that everyone raves about hence why xlines brush is my second choice and gardiners comes fourth after tucker brushes.
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Unfortunately, due to elbow problems, I am limited to Xtreme brushes for anything above ground floor. I even tried the supreme and that was still a tad heavy. I think that for the weight, the Xtreme is a very clever designed brush and I am quite happy with it but I would be happy to try any other manufacturers' brush, if only they were light enough.
That's the problem robbo more bristles mean more weight and there's no getting away from that, I have a box of different
brushes siting in my garage all around the same weight ( heavy ) and there's no difference in any of them.
The thing is 95% of what we get on the glass takes very little effort to remove for the other 5% ( bird poop and similar ) then a heavier brush would be an advantage, but why work all day with a brick just to remove the odd stubborn mark slightly quicker
its no different to working all day with a 30ft pole because you have one property on your round that needs it.
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Alex.
Bought one of your sumpreme soft hybrid brushes 2 months ago and sad to see one side brush curled.
Maybe I'm too heavy handed, just received my order of medium mixed supreme 0 degree just used today. 1st impression, very good.
Also got another supreme soft hybrid but will only use for odd delicate leads.
Too much choice😁
The Supreme Soft is a very soft and wide splaying brush. Because of this it can abrade against window reveals very easily - you will find that the medium version is more resistant to this in general use.
As a general rule if a brush has bristles that start to deform or curl on just one side of the brush this means that the effect of being left or right handed is making that side of the brush come into more abrasive contact with the side of the window compared to the other side. If you are right handed it will usually be on the right hand side of the brush, if you are left handed it will be the left.
The way to prevent this is to slightly modify your technique so that you are aware of the extra pressure being added in this direction and try and keep the force even across the brush especially when cleaning the edges. It may seem a simple thing, but many clients have had this happen and have then slightly modified their use of the brush and found that one side no longer wears out quicker than the other. Such techniques are more important on very lightweight or soft bristled brushes.
There is a lot of choice, but many of them can be quickly discounted by most users for general use. As a general rule most work will need a medium brush (unless using hot), then the weight or splay pattern will dictate the exact choice. Most window cleaners could actually clean with most brushes - your own likes and dislikes quickly tell you which ones you prefer.
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With regard to the comments about the scrubbing power of the Xtreme brushes. Understandably due to their lightweight they will not always scrub as well on stubborn marks as a denser heavier brush. What many of our clients now use is a Super-Scraper with abrasive pads fitted on to their gooseneck. This allows them to keep weight to a minimum all day and then simply twist the pole around to quickly shift a stubborn mark that even the heaviest of brushes would struggle with. Doesn't suit every user, but is a very popular item.
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brushes/brush-head-attachments/the-new-super-scraper-trade.html
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I've used extremes this last few weeks and the results have been not good,I did another today and as I was going a looked at a particular window and it looked awful barely scratched the surface of the dirt I had to go back and do quiet a few again. I don't know what's been in the wind but it's not like the normal dirt you get on the glass
Iv noticed this the last couple of days. There seems to be a residue on alot of windows at the moment that's very difficult to remove. It just spreads around the glass, no matter how much you scrub.
It's even on my own windows, lots of little specks, almost greasy like.
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What, like this? My kitchen window - I can't see out!
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NWH why on earth are you using Xtremes when for the last couple of months you've been saying how bad you think they are. Are you masochistic or something?
At the moment I'm using Xline - not because Gardiners brushes are bad, simply because it suits me better. In eight years of using Gardiners brushes I don't think I've ever worn one out with cold water. My sill brushes look rough because they are rammed up into gutter clips on cleans.
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What, like this? My kitchen window - I can't see out!
Looks exactly like my kitchen window :D
And it was only cleaned a couple of weeks ago!
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I use the extremes all the time if I think they will do the job on particular Windows and they usually do,the Xline is a better cleaning brush is it scrubs better but it's to heavy to use alday long,I know that bit about being right handed but it is only noticeable on the extreme brushes with the bristles curling due to there being lack of them. The way Windows are at the moment they don't get the Windows clean so I'm gonna have to suffer the weight till the weather changes,I meant to buy a couple of those other brushes from streamline I might have a look
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"We do have a radical new Sill brush design which has just been tooled, which is different again to anything currently on the market - this may prove better able to adsorb the side wear that often causes early bristle failure whilst still be of a lightweight design. Perhaps this will better suit your Sill brush needs when it arrives - it would be good to win you back :)"
Whens this one likely to be available? Have to say your present sill brushes are not in the same league as the xline, although i dont like paying xlines prices. Would definately give your new sill brush a trial.
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"We do have a radical new Sill brush design which has just been tooled, which is different again to anything currently on the market - this may prove better able to adsorb the side wear that often causes early bristle failure whilst still be of a lightweight design. Perhaps this will better suit your Sill brush needs when it arrives - it would be good to win you back :)"
Whens this one likely to be available? Have to say your present sill brushes are not in the same league as the xline, although i dont like paying xlines prices. Would definately give your new sill brush a trial.
They are about 2 months away as we still awaiting some tweaks to the bristle-punching machine as it is a much more complex process to manufacture them.
I think that most of our clients are glad that our Sill brushes are not in the same 'league' as the xline sill brush. If they were in the same league we would probably lose a lot of sales as the xline sill brushes are over 50% heavier than the Gardiner sill brushes.
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I would never say the Xline brush is a weight I like to use alday it's not,as far as cleaning goes it's does a good job but like I say it's still to heavy.
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"We do have a radical new Sill brush design which has just been tooled, which is different again to anything currently on the market - this may prove better able to adsorb the side wear that often causes early bristle failure whilst still be of a lightweight design. Perhaps this will better suit your Sill brush needs when it arrives - it would be good to win you back :)"
Whens this one likely to be available? Have to say your present sill brushes are not in the same league as the xline, although i dont like paying xlines prices. Would definately give your new sill brush a trial.
The rectangular xline is about the same price as the sl. The xline sill brush is notably bigger than the gardiner sill brush so is understandably more expensive. Xline sill is too heavy for regular use IMO.
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I wouldn't even include that Xline sill brush in the equation it far to heavy like the old Vikan truck cleaning brush coz that's all they are,if I had to go for an all round brush it would be the ionic standard brush purely because it works on nearly all Windows and keeps it shape for longer with hot water.
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I wouldn't even include that Xline sill brush in the equation it far to heavy like the old Vikan truck cleaning brush coz that's all they are,if I had to go for an all round brush it would be the ionic standard brush purely because it works on nearly all Windows and keeps it shape for longer with hot water.
Xline sill brush is a notably lighter than the vikan sill and is an OK brush for the occasional job where it gives an advantage. No way would I use it regularly though.
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I took an electric sander to my xline and reduced the weight down considerably as the stock is way too thick adding too much unneccesssary weight. :) I always reduce the weight of any brush down to the bare minimum whenever possible as it makes sense to reduce the weight.
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Everyone preferes different brushes and want different characteristics from their brush .,
I use X-line mono
I have a X-line Cill and it is very heavy .
I use black gardiners soft brush as well .
And White Extreame Gardiners
Red aerial Tecbuk
I don't see the obsession with lightness , it does need to be relatively light , but not too light .
The new Neon looks massively Threadbare on a picture I saw on Facebook .
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Everyone preferes different brushes and want different characteristics from their brush .,
I use X-line mono
I have a X-line Cill and it is very heavy .
I use black gardiners soft brush as well .
And White Extreame Gardiners
Red aerial Tecbuk
I don't see the obsession with lightness , it does need to be relatively light , but not too light .
The new Neon looks massively Threadbare on a picture I saw on Facebook .
Agreed kempy, unless you have some sort of health issue then brushes don't need to weigh nothing. The xline mono is fine in daily use for a fit and healthy adult.
The reality is I don't think they'll ever be a 'perfect' brush, that weighs nothing yet has alot of bristles and lasts months, years even.
The best of Gardiner's brushes are light but lack bristle density and longevity.
The best of xline are heavier but great for scrubbing and very long lasting.
Perhaps the ultimate brush from Gardiner's could be the first to hit the 'sweetspot' of lightness, scrubbing power, robustness and longevity.
The tecbuk came close but after 'banana gate' they lost some credibility. Plus they were to small for my liking and the customer service was abysmal.
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I would take a circular saw to that brush not a sander.
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I think the simple reason the xline mono is better than the sl equivalent is that the bristles hold their shape better so they do not splay as much. This means that more of the bristle head is in contact with the glass so it scrubs better.
Alex alluded to this when he said the xline outer bristles are shorter. It is not rocket science. Generally the more the bristles splay the less effectively they scrub.
This is why a 0 degree brush scrubs the best but does not clean well in corners or the top edge. Some splay is beneficial but IMO most brushes splay too much. Extra splay makes the brush feel nice on the glass and everyone thinks "Oh what a lovely brush". But unless you regularly check the windows afterwards, people fail to notice the brush does not actually clean that well.
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The Xline IMO is to much weight day in day out,it's fine for the first half of the day but after that it is noticeable the extra weight that is. It's difficult to get that amount of bristles on an extreme stock that's why there isn't one for sale to pack that amount of bristles into a brush that extreme stock is not thick enough even more would fall out,I'm sure that's been attempted.
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Weight is not an issue lol if I wanted a brush that cleaned well there wouldn't be an issue there's loads out there that do that,for the majority weight is the only issue.
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I think the simple reason the xline mono is better than the sl equivalent is that the bristles hold their shape better so they do not splay as much. This means that more of the bristle head is in contact with the glass so it scrubs better.
Alex alluded to this when he said the xline outer bristles are shorter. It is not rocket science. Generally the more the bristles splay the less effectively they scrub.
This is why a 0 degree brush scrubs the best but does not clean well in corners or the top edge. Some splay is beneficial but IMO most brushes splay too much. Extra splay makes the brush feel nice on the glass and everyone thinks "Oh what a lovely brush". But unless you regularly check the windows afterwards, people fail to notice the brush does not actually clean that well.
Well put :)
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The facelift neon and the X-line are the same brushes (virtually) they come from the same factory and use the same base stock. I imagine that facelift have reduced the bristle count slightly compared to the X-Line to reduce the weight by the extra 7g.
Actually Alex this is untrue, they are not the same brushes at all. The NeoN is a lot lighter the '7g' as you have commented, I think it's more like 15% lighter. I haven't an Xline brush at hand to compare so going on stated weights from the Xline website.
The aim of the NeoN was creating the ultimate lightweight brush that outperforms (and outlasts) the 'toothbrush' style brushes on the market. We saw a need for a truely superior maintenance clean brush, as what is currently available seems to be lacking. We've invested in a higher grade bristle which we hope to outlast the standard bristle found on most wfp brushes. Time will tell of course, but we are quitely confident especially with the current feedback we are getting.
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The Xline IMO is to much weight day in day out,it's fine for the first half of the day but after that it is noticeable the extra weight that is. It's difficult to get that amount of bristles on an extreme stock that's why there isn't one for sale to pack that amount of bristles into a brush that extreme stock is not thick enough even more would fall out,I'm sure that's been attempted.
i thought the xline mono evolite was heavy at first but ive got used to it now.i think the reason why it scrubs so well and keeps its shape better is the bristles are shorter(both inner and out)than a standard SL brush.also they have more bristle density.
im looking forward to trying the new gardiner ultimate brushes out though when their for sale as they sound a good compromise between the extreme and SL.if they scrub more like a SL with a similar weight to an extreme and keep their shape a bit better they could be a winner. :)
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Well it's coming soon coming soon coming soon lol
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"The aim of the NeoN was creating the ultimate lightweight brush that outperforms (and outlasts) the 'toothbrush' style brushes on the market. We saw a need for a truely superior maintenance clean brush, as what is currently available seems to be lacking. We've invested in a higher grade bristle which we hope to outlast the standard bristle found on most wfp brushes. Time will tell of course, but we are quitely confident especially with the current feedback we are getting"
Hi Stephen. did a search for a Neon sill brush and didnt come up with anything, is there such a beast? If not, any plans for one?
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Nick, maybe in the future. With the Neon we were aiming for the user who wants the lightest possible without scrimping on cleaning (splay, longevity, performance, etc) I think the Neon hits that sweet spot. Cutting down the stock size, bristles, etc would be a compromise. Sill brushes in general tend to be heavier across the board for them to be any good, Definitely something to think about going forward.
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The facelift neon and the X-line are the same brushes (virtually) they come from the same factory and use the same base stock. I imagine that facelift have reduced the bristle count slightly compared to the X-Line to reduce the weight by the extra 7g.
Actually Alex this is untrue, they are not the same brushes at all. The NeoN is a lot lighter the '7g' as you have commented, I think it's more like 15% lighter. I haven't an Xline brush at hand to compare so going on stated weights from the Xline website.
The aim of the NeoN was creating the ultimate lightweight brush that outperforms (and outlasts) the 'toothbrush' style brushes on the market. We saw a need for a truely superior maintenance clean brush, as what is currently available seems to be lacking. We've invested in a higher grade bristle which we hope to outlast the standard bristle found on most wfp brushes. Time will tell of course, but we are quitely confident especially with the current feedback we are getting.
Do you have these brushes in stock yet Stephen as I might give them a try?
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Nick, maybe in the future. With the Neon we were aiming for the user who wants the lightest possible without scrimping on cleaning (splay, longevity, performance, etc) I think the Neon hits that sweet spot. Cutting down the stock size, bristles, etc would be a compromise. Sill brushes in general tend to be heavier across the board for them to be any good, Definitely something to think about going forward.
Ohh sounds interesting. Neon or ultimate for my next brush...
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KS, yes we have...
http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/FPNEON.html
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KS, yes we have...
http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/FPNEON.html
Thanks, al order a couple in the next day or two.
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Nick, maybe in the future. With the Neon we were aiming for the user who wants the lightest possible without scrimping on cleaning (splay, longevity, performance, etc) I think the Neon hits that sweet spot. Cutting down the stock size, bristles, etc would be a compromise. Sill brushes in general tend to be heavier across the board for them to be any good, Definitely something to think about going forward.
Ohh sounds interesting. Neon or ultimate for my next brush...
the neon is heavier and more expensive than the ultimate will be though.
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cant wait untill the ultimate comes out but ive heard good reviews too about the new facelift neon on the facebook pages and it sounds comparable to the supremes in weight.
it looks the same as the xline too and wcw brushes, i wonder if theyre made by the same manufacturer?
Thanks for the feedback.
The facelift neon and the X-line are the same brushes (virtually) they come from the same factory and use the same base stock. I imagine that facelift have reduced the bristle count slightly compared to the X-Line to reduce the weight by the extra 7g.
Interestingly both these firms now use our UK manufacturing factory that we have been using for Gardiner brushes for the last 7 years or so. So their stock material, bristle material and bristle fastening is now the same as Gardiner brushes always have been :)
Apologies it would appear that I had based the neon weight saving figure on a previously quoted weight. For the sake of complete accuracy, the actual weight saving of the neon over the xline is (according to newly published figures last night) 13g not the 7g I had mentioned.
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I have just ordered a neon so I will report back,it's true what someone said just because it has a good splay it cleans better that is perfectly correct. Just because it does this it makes no difference to the clean,I've used brushes with maximum And medium splay and they can still leave the Windows badly cleaned the brush should only splay or fold flat with a bit of effort from the person poling by pushing on the brush,nearly all brushes available at the moment just fold flat like a wet cloth.
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Thanks for your help Alex.
Will make this brush for f/s/g and Connie roof cleans, new soft brush will be more aware I'm right handed but left side is curled, will watch technique.
Dd yep your right meant 0 degree superlite medium mixed.
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It is down to being right or left handed but not all brushes do this not in a matter of weeks anyway,I've had them ages in some makes before they start to curl even with hot water.
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Apologies it would appear that I had based the neon weight saving figure on a previously quoted weight. For the sake of complete accuracy, the actual weight saving of the neon over the xline is (according to newly published figures last night) 13g not the 7g I had mentioned.
Unfortunately Alex this is also wrong. I am guessing you are basing your numbers on Xline website weight which is bare brush, I believe, at 220g's? If this is the case the Neon weighs 185g's bare - so as you can see it's quite a difference.
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Apologies it would appear that I had based the neon weight saving figure on a previously quoted weight. For the sake of complete accuracy, the actual weight saving of the neon over the xline is (according to newly published figures last night) 13g not the 7g I had mentioned.
Unfortunately Alex this is also wrong. I am guessing you are basing your numbers on Xline website weight which is bare brush, I believe, at 220g's? If this is the case the Neon weighs 185g's bare - so as you can see it's quite a difference.
It was based on both website's published figures. In this case there is a good difference in weight between the neon and the xline, despite using the same stock - well done.
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It is down to being right or left handed but not all brushes do this not in a matter of weeks anyway,I've had them ages in some makes before they start to curl even with hot water.
Are you intoxicated NWH?
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ped as a dart
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Wii the gardiner quick loc socket fit the neon? With the xline the screw holes are in exactly the same place so no need to mess about trying to drill new holes.
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Yes there all the same