Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steven hall on January 19, 2016, 10:52:45 am

Title: Using heat
Post by: Steven hall on January 19, 2016, 10:52:45 am
Hi everyone been a member a while on this site but never posted yet so my first question is does using heat and make a big difference only reason I ask is never used real heat before as I have airflex mini but hopefully upgrading to second hand powrflite pfx1350 tomorrow two reasons bigger tank and 3000kw built-in heater all advise welcome
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Simon Gerrard on January 19, 2016, 04:06:37 pm
Heat makes a huge difference.

Simon
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: JandS on January 19, 2016, 04:28:48 pm
No it doesn't it says so on CT... ;D
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Raymondo on January 19, 2016, 04:31:30 pm
It depends who you talk too.

If you have the means of creating heat (TM or a inline heater close to the wand)then you will say that it clean better and is necessary.

But if you are unable to create heat (its too much hassle) don't want an extra electric lead  to plug in somewhere else in the house then you will say it not that important.

Where do I fit in to those too opinions?

Have a full English breakfast but afterwards run the plate under the cold tape and the grease will still be there but run it under the hot tap and that will remove the grease.

Hot water will remove more soiling out of a carpets with less chemicals than coldwater try cleaning a nightclub or restaurant with cold water.

Cold water will do it but its harder work.

Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Simon Gerrard on January 19, 2016, 04:53:40 pm
Well put, Raymondo.


Simon
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven hall on January 19, 2016, 05:11:11 pm
So does the powrflite with the in tank give enough heat to make a difference
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Phil @ Extreme Clean on January 19, 2016, 05:18:23 pm
It's not an in tank heater Steven it is inline so heats up more or less straight away and Yes it makes a difference as heat breaks down greasy etc.
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Glynn on January 19, 2016, 05:20:26 pm
Ever wonder why they don't wash theatre gowns and cloths in cold water ?.
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven hall on January 19, 2016, 05:47:52 pm
Cheers Phil
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: sean oregan on January 19, 2016, 08:53:29 pm
So if I was after an aftermarket inline heater where should I be looking?
Seriously thinking about getting one
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven Butler on January 19, 2016, 09:03:13 pm
Interesting question about heat this.
Ive got a heater for my steempro on the van that ive never used as im getting great results without heat...might give it a try though...
True about washing pots in hot water etc..
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: davep on January 22, 2016, 08:31:33 pm
Although we aren't washing pots   ;D
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: liviu pastravanu on January 22, 2016, 10:02:13 pm
For me heat makes a huge difference. I used to be a cold water extraction boy and i was struggling on greasy carpets and upholstery. Bought my first TM a year ago and i am still amazed what a big difference it makes!

I will say this once as i don't want you portable guys to switch to a TM, makes us look a LOT better, professional, makes the work easier, faster and better, STOP looking for the TM like portable as there's no such thing. Go and buy yourself a proper TM that will make you LOADS of money and provide you with constant hot water and superior vac power.

P.S. When i used to run a high end porty i never did £600 in a day on my own.

Regards
Liviu

Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steve Chapman on January 22, 2016, 10:24:50 pm
It's part of the basic science of cleaning pie, without heat you will have to increase time, agitation or chemicals.........

In my opinion it's best to have a nice balance of each.......
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Tadgh O Shea on January 22, 2016, 10:34:34 pm
It's part of the basic science of cleaning pie, without heat you will have to increase time, agitation or chemicals.........

In my opinion it's best to have a nice balance of each.......
  Spot on and right answer for newer guys Steve.
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven Butler on January 22, 2016, 10:35:06 pm
Well today i was working in an empty property so decided to try out my inline heater for the first time...in fact the first time i had ever cleaned a carpet with heat....
Wow...dont think i will ever clean with cold water again.
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: tim handley on January 23, 2016, 02:16:11 pm
best be getting an inline heater for my storm then.................... ;D
what were you using steven??
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven Butler on January 23, 2016, 03:07:45 pm
Steempro with heat n run mate
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: COLIN BRIGHT on January 23, 2016, 04:50:18 pm
I think heat is best, be careful on those synthetic suites though
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 23, 2016, 05:21:49 pm
For a month before Xmas I disconnected my propane water heater and used the immersion fitted into my fresh water tank to heat my water I was cleaning with hand hot water ( so hot you could just about hold your hand in it ) this cleaned well, I think most people who talk about cleaning with 'hot' water are referring to water at this sort of temperature, in this temp range you can touch the QC.

I think the big difference comes when you go higher, when I use my heater the QC can burn your arm when you accidently touch it. this heat coupled with a high flow of water ( big jets in your wand) and a quality detergent makes cleaning really soiled carpets a lot easier.

Someone asked what difference a detergent makes as it only touches the carpet for a second but it's about lots of little differences added together to make a big difference. The coach for Team Sky the cycle team said all he looked for was a 5% improvement  if he could make a a small 5% improvement  in 4 different areas he would end up with a 20% difference....and that's what makes a winning team.

It's the same with cleaning carpets all we need is lots of small  improvements in how we clean to make a big difference.

Ps: if you think 5% is not worth bothering about..... Usain Bolt  won the 100m by being 0. 003% better than the person who came second ;)
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: derek west on January 23, 2016, 05:49:20 pm
For a month before Xmas I disconnected my propane water heater and used the immersion fitted into my fresh water tank to heat my water I was cleaning with hand hot water ( so hot you could just about hold your hand in it ) this cleaned well, I think most people who talk about cleaning with 'hot' water are referring to water at this sort of temperature, in this temp range you can touch the QC.

I think the big difference comes when you go higher, when I use my heater the QC can burn your arm when you accidently touch it. this heat coupled with a high flow of water ( big jets in your wand) and a quality detergent makes cleaning really soiled carpets a lot easier.

Someone asked what difference a detergent makes as it only touches the carpet for a second but it's about lots of little differences added together to make a big difference. The coach for Team Sky the cycle team said all he looked for was a 5% improvement  if he could make a a small 5% improvement  in 4 different areas he would end up with a 20% difference....and that's what makes a winning team.

It's the same with cleaning carpets all we need is lots of small  improvements in how we clean to make a big difference.

Ps: if you think 5% is not worth bothering about..... Usain Bolt  won the 100m by being 0. 003% better than the person who came second ;)
it was called marginal gains, watched a documentary on it,  really interesting, think it was even lower than 5%.
http://www.bnymellonbrilliant.com/thinkbrilliant/marginal-gains
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: sean oregan on January 23, 2016, 05:50:54 pm
Is the magma inline heater the best out there or are there better/cheaper
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Matt Fox on January 23, 2016, 11:19:43 pm
What heat do you guys set your thermostat at?
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: liviu pastravanu on January 24, 2016, 12:48:27 am
230
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: john martin on January 24, 2016, 12:56:50 am
Is the magma inline heater the best out there or are there better/cheaper

using a 3kw amtech inline ,  its a bit  cheaper than the others but no adjustable thermostat  , gets nice and hot though
sorry if theres pop-ups  :D
http://sendvid.com/a6avgxf4


Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 24, 2016, 09:00:46 am
That's the problem with inline heater they work fine with a small jet hand tool but use a multi-jet wand and they will never constantly produce high temps.

This is a video of a 4 jet wand using 02 jets, to get this you need a big truckmount or a fuel water heater, this video is on half the websites in the uk  ;D ;D .......and most of them don't have the capability to clean at this temp ( I filmed it by the way :) )

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eev_eUMFNZQ&ebc=ANyPxKoi-Ap8namuYfd9E6V_J4gew6KfzMfKmu6DBWbOURwrkF5XglW_zf1ECcV0T9Pg1LNQ4Q3NZUmFc9hEVaIaUulsiluxug&time_continue=12

And we need to understand the difference between steam & water vapour
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 24, 2016, 09:17:53 am
Here's another video showing the power of hot water, this is just walking in and start wanding, no pre-vac, pre-spray or scrub. And no chemical. I did it like this to test a little single jet 10 inch wand I bought.

You can see how it melts a thick black stain that was stiff to the touch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3B7BbnwMIM

Hopefull this will work I've just uploaded it



Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven Butler on January 24, 2016, 10:41:09 am
I think the heat n run must be at a set temp???
What i liked most when i tried it was seeing the steam...looks so impressive. Although i dont quite understand why there was visible steam when i could actually touch the water....it was hot but i would expect it to be too hot to touch??
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 24, 2016, 10:46:49 am
That's why I said the difference between steam which is what happens to water as it goes higher than 100 degrees and Water vapour which is like your breath on a cold day.

Steam does not clean it's a gas, it has no flushing action at all
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Steven Butler on January 24, 2016, 11:20:29 am
So i dont steam clean i now 'water vapour clean'!!!  Whatever it looks impressive!  ;D
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Raymondo on January 24, 2016, 11:48:13 am
We clean a place every month that has a lot of foot traffic.

When at first we are set up and start extracting the water is cold it has to go though 200 feet of hose and as it warms up to hot water it amazing what a difference it makes the clean becomes easier.

Hot water cleans better but can be difficult to produce (extra lead to plug in, the inline heater not keeping up with the wand etc).


Title: Re: using heat
Post by: gwrightson on January 24, 2016, 12:52:40 pm
As Mike posted earlier re.heat  and burning yourself, I often have to put on gloves to avoid this as even the recovered water is so hot on its way up the wand, only this morning I had to put the gloves on as I had temp up high working at a vets surgery.

Here is a vid of heat on a kitchen carpet,      https://www.facebook.com/geoffrey.wrightson/videos/10153058309938127/?theater

Geoff




Title: Re: using heat
Post by: tim handley on January 25, 2016, 01:23:52 pm
ordered a magma today, should have it in a week, cant wait to try it out.....
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: sean oregan on January 25, 2016, 03:15:34 pm
ordered a magma today, should have it in a week, cant wait to try it out.....

Keep us updated Tim
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Ian Harper on January 26, 2016, 06:53:01 am
Hi

its just one of for slices that you need for effective cleaning. in the image each slice is in 1/4 but they can be greater or less depending on the method. so say with microsplitter the heat might not be much smaller and mechanical much larger. for me i go for large chemical and dwell time,  emulsification is my thing matching the right matching the right hydrophobic molecule to dirt type.  understanding how each product works is far more effective and makes the job so much easier than trying to force the issue. heat heat alone will never release the dirt fibre bond. once you have done this its just a mater of flushing the emulsified dirt away.

One of the most common questions asked by customers is "how long will it take for my carpet to dry" over wetting and long drying times are down to poor emulsification. if the dirt is not released then keep going over and over it will not do it.

(http://colchester.cleaning-carpet.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sinner-circle.jpg)

regarding claims about heat only cleaning, sometimes something might look one way when really its not. customers dont always tell the truth about the history of their carpets. all homes have hard floor areas.  customers might over use detergent in these areas and then that residue gets walked onto the carpet causing any dirt to stick to it. try and remove dirt from a car with just high temp water. or would you wash a wool jumper in high temp? when has anyone been on a training course and be shown a method thats based on heat only for carpet cleaning.

if dirt can not be vacuumed out of a carpet then its bonded to fibre. this requires surfactants to release.

High heat can damage a carpet. the only reason TMs can product high heat is for long hose runs. if the TM could not then the water would be cold when it reaches the wand.  I know it can be confusing when you get great products like polti  but thats a different environment and surfaces being cleaned.  when grease and oil is in the environment then this can form a film over the fibre and then the dirt sticks to it, this is different to a bond. environmental factors play a massive part in good cleaning and the choice of method and products used.
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: mark_roberts on January 26, 2016, 11:04:31 pm
What's the law on using propane from the van?

Is anywhere in the UK making a system that can be used for carpet cleaning?
Title: Re: using heat
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 27, 2016, 06:20:11 am
What's the law on using propane from the van?

Is anywhere in the UK making a system that can be used for carpet cleaning?

You get LPG fuelled cars and truckmount have independent petrol tanks, so I cant't see a legal issue with carry propane you might have to inform your insurance company.

There is not a uk company that  makes or supplies a high pressure propane water heater  that I know of, the nearest alternative is the diesel hotbox used by pressure washers