Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jo5hm4n on January 11, 2016, 09:57:30 pm
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Considering going full time with Window Cleaning, as finding running 2 part time businesses is becoming more difficult, just interested to know out of you guys on here running a one man band operation what are your approx business outgoings each month/yearly to run your window cleaning business. I've just worked out a rough estimate and including upgrading for a newer van and system plus all other standard outgoings it will set me back around £600 per month. So this is £600 per month i wont see on whatever my business is turning over and this is all before tax.
Does this sound about average, how much are you guys paying to keep your business running?
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First couple of years or so about that .but once you have paid off all new equipment. Now about half that
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My monthly outgoings have evened out to around £400.
That's for fuel, water costs, insurance, cleaner planner, tools etc.
After a few years you get to a point where you have decent equipment and don't need to fork out to often. New brush here and there, filters, resin etc
I bought a 13 plate dispatch last year which il keep for 5 years, using that time to save for another van.
Don't want finance, I want to own the van straight away.
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How about mind your own business ;D
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Your confusing start up costs with yearly running costs, example lets say you pay £10K for your van and plan to keep
it for 5 years then say after 5 years its still worth £4k, your van will have cost you £1200 per year to buy or £100 a month
now considering this will be your biggest outlay by far do you now think its going to cost you another £500 a month for everything else ?
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Considering going full time with Window Cleaning, as finding running 2 part time businesses is becoming more difficult, just interested to know out of you guys on here running a one man band operation what are your approx business outgoings each month/yearly to run your window cleaning business. I've just worked out a rough estimate and including upgrading for a newer van and system plus all other standard outgoings it will set me back around £600 per month. So this is £600 per month i wont see on whatever my business is turning over and this is all before tax.
Does this sound about average, how much are you guys paying to keep your business running?
Depends how you work really. My main outgoings (vehicle/system loan, small unit rental (a room with tank and some storage room), and water bill) currently work out at around £520 a month. To that add diesel (variable - but average maybe £130 a month), vehicle maintenance (very low as it's new), filter changes/resin, metered water, van and public liability insurances, phone, accountancy fee, occasional tool replacement, I'm probably looking at £800+ a month on average. That is skewed though by recently taking out a van loan and needing to rent somewhere cheapish for filtering water (I live in a flat). It's easy to forget about some of those annual bills like accountant and other misc stuff, and even easier to overlook those things that last a few years like membranes - but they also must be divided by 12 and factored in to the monthly costs. Vehicle depreciation is another issue too. If I take EVERYTHING into account, I could be looking at a bit more than £10k a year.
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5k-6k a year for all expenses.
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Considering going full time with Window Cleaning, as finding running 2 part time businesses is becoming more difficult, just interested to know out of you guys on here running a one man band operation what are your approx business outgoings each month/yearly to run your window cleaning business. I've just worked out a rough estimate and including upgrading for a newer van and system plus all other standard outgoings it will set me back around £600 per month. So this is £600 per month i wont see on whatever my business is turning over and this is all before tax.
Does this sound about average, how much are you guys paying to keep your business running?
Depends how you work really. My main outgoings (vehicle/system loan, small unit rental (a room with tank and some storage room), and water bill) currently work out at around £520 a month. To that add diesel (variable - but average maybe £130 a month), vehicle maintenance (very low as it's new), filter changes/resin, metered water, van and public liability insurances, phone, accountancy fee, occasional tool replacement, I'm probably looking at £800+ a month on average. That is skewed though by recently taking out a van loan and needing to rent somewhere cheapish for filtering water (I live in a flat). It's easy to forget about some of those annual bills like accountant and other misc stuff, and even easier to overlook those things that last a few years like membranes - but they also must be divided by 12 and factored in to the monthly costs. Vehicle depreciation is another issue too. If I take EVERYTHING into account, I could be looking at a bit more than £10k a year.
That's definitely a Walter Mitty story if ever I heard one that or you need to sack your accountant. ;D
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Yearly expenses will vary according to your circumstances if your young and have high insurance premiums then
you could be talking between £2 and £3k a year for that alone, if your commercial and do high mileage then that will also have an effect on your outgoings, even things like higher work will effect your outgoings as that will mean very expensive poles are a
must have compared to an slx for two story domestic.
But if your what I would call in the lucky bracket expenses wise, low insurance cheap water and a compact round close to home then you would be doing well to spend £3k a year even with a fairly good van.
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Yearly expenses will vary according to your circumstances if your young and have high insurance premiums then
you could be talking between £2 and £3k a year for that alone, if your commercial and do high mileage then that will also have an effect on your outgoings, even things like higher work will effect your outgoings as that will mean very expensive poles are a
must have compared to an slx for two story domestic.
But if your what I would call in the lucky bracket expenses wise, low insurance cheap water and a compact round close to home then you would be doing well to spend £3k a year even with a fairly good van.
Indeed, without vehice loan and if I could filter water at home, and if my work was all more local, I might be able to squeeze it down to £3k-£4k now that I have no very high work.
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Considering going full time with Window Cleaning, as finding running 2 part time businesses is becoming more difficult, just interested to know out of you guys on here running a one man band operation what are your approx business outgoings each month/yearly to run your window cleaning business. I've just worked out a rough estimate and including upgrading for a newer van and system plus all other standard outgoings it will set me back around £600 per month. So this is £600 per month i wont see on whatever my business is turning over and this is all before tax.
Does this sound about average, how much are you guys paying to keep your business running?
Depends how you work really. My main outgoings (vehicle/system loan, small unit rental (a room with tank and some storage room), and water bill) currently work out at around £520 a month. To that add diesel (variable - but average maybe £130 a month), vehicle maintenance (very low as it's new), filter changes/resin, metered water, van and public liability insurances, phone, accountancy fee, occasional tool replacement, I'm probably looking at £800+ a month on average. That is skewed though by recently taking out a van loan and needing to rent somewhere cheapish for filtering water (I live in a flat). It's easy to forget about some of those annual bills like accountant and other misc stuff, and even easier to overlook those things that last a few years like membranes - but they also must be divided by 12 and factored in to the monthly costs. Vehicle depreciation is another issue too. If I take EVERYTHING into account, I could be looking at a bit more than £10k a year.
That's definitely a Walter Mitty story if ever I heard one that or you need to sack your accountant. ;D
And that's only part-time when I'm taking a break from my main job as a brain surgeon :)
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Yearly expenses will vary according to your circumstances if your young and have high insurance premiums then
you could be talking between £2 and £3k a year for that alone, if your commercial and do high mileage then that will also have an effect on your outgoings, even things like higher work will effect your outgoings as that will mean very expensive poles are a
must have compared to an slx for two story domestic.
But if your what I would call in the lucky bracket expenses wise, low insurance cheap water and a compact round close to home then you would be doing well to spend £3k a year even with a fairly good van.
Indeed, without vehice loan and if I could filter water at home, and if my work was all more local, I might be able to squeeze it down to £3k-£4k now that I have no very high work.
Your making the mistake that many do and are not deducting capital gain from your expenses, even if your vehicle cost
£20k new including loan if you sell it in 5 years it will have a value that you need to deduct from your yearly expenses
that's why all big companies work out their expenses on a minimum of 5 years.
A new vehicle even bought on a loan shouldn't cost more than £1500 a year providing you have got a decent interest rate
and don't ruin the vehicle in that time frame.
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Yearly expenses will vary according to your circumstances if your young and have high insurance premiums then
you could be talking between £2 and £3k a year for that alone, if your commercial and do high mileage then that will also have an effect on your outgoings, even things like higher work will effect your outgoings as that will mean very expensive poles are a
must have compared to an slx for two story domestic.
But if your what I would call in the lucky bracket expenses wise, low insurance cheap water and a compact round close to home then you would be doing well to spend £3k a year even with a fairly good van.
Indeed, without vehice loan and if I could filter water at home, and if my work was all more local, I might be able to squeeze it down to £3k-£4k now that I have no very high work.
Your making the mistake that many do and are not deducting capital gain from your expenses, even if your vehicle cost
£20k new including loan if you sell it in 5 years it will have a value that you need to deduct from your yearly expenses
that's why all big companies work out their expenses on a minimum of 5 years.
A new vehicle even bought on a loan shouldn't cost more than £1500 a year providing you have got a decent interest rate
and don't ruin the vehicle in that time frame.
Eh? ???
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Yearly expenses will vary according to your circumstances if your young and have high insurance premiums then
you could be talking between £2 and £3k a year for that alone, if your commercial and do high mileage then that will also have an effect on your outgoings, even things like higher work will effect your outgoings as that will mean very expensive poles are a
must have compared to an slx for two story domestic.
But if your what I would call in the lucky bracket expenses wise, low insurance cheap water and a compact round close to home then you would be doing well to spend £3k a year even with a fairly good van.
Indeed, without vehice loan and if I could filter water at home, and if my work was all more local, I might be able to squeeze it down to £3k-£4k now that I have no very high work.
Your making the mistake that many do and are not deducting capital gain from your expenses, even if your vehicle cost
£20k new including loan if you sell it in 5 years it will have a value that you need to deduct from your yearly expenses
that's why all big companies work out their expenses on a minimum of 5 years.
A new vehicle even bought on a loan shouldn't cost more than £1500 a year providing you have got a decent interest rate
and don't ruin the vehicle in that time frame.
Eh? ???
Cost of the van over 5 years, devide the van cost by 5 for a yearly cost, then take off the re sale value after 5years of having it... 10grand van is 2k a year, sell it for 2.5k after 5 years = 1500 a year van cost.. I'm guessing this is an example of what he means
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Taking staff wages and tax out of the equation our costs are roughly £18,000 pa
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Yearly expenses will vary according to your circumstances if your young and have high insurance premiums then
you could be talking between £2 and £3k a year for that alone, if your commercial and do high mileage then that will also have an effect on your outgoings, even things like higher work will effect your outgoings as that will mean very expensive poles are a
must have compared to an slx for two story domestic.
But if your what I would call in the lucky bracket expenses wise, low insurance cheap water and a compact round close to home then you would be doing well to spend £3k a year even with a fairly good van.
Indeed, without vehice loan and if I could filter water at home, and if my work was all more local, I might be able to squeeze it down to £3k-£4k now that I have no very high work.
Your making the mistake that many do and are not deducting capital gain from your expenses, even if your vehicle cost
£20k new including loan if you sell it in 5 years it will have a value that you need to deduct from your yearly expenses
that's why all big companies work out their expenses on a minimum of 5 years.
A new vehicle even bought on a loan shouldn't cost more than £1500 a year providing you have got a decent interest rate
and don't ruin the vehicle in that time frame.
Eh? ???
Cost of the van over 5 years, devide the van cost by 5 for a yearly cost, then take off the re sale value after 5years of having it... 10grand van is 2k a year, sell it for 2.5k after 5 years = 1500 a year van cost.. I'm guessing this is an example of what he means
Exactly Joey, a van only costs what it depreciates if that's the right way to say it, I'm not saying that you could buy a new
van for £1500 a year as you will also be paying for that remaining value in advance.
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I would always keep my outgoings highish if your earning you'll only pay it in tax as I have found to my fault this year,if your earning well and don't have any big purchases you'll pay it in tax. If you've had a business you should know this but after you've bought equipment you'll struggle to offset things,I would keep re newing stuff to keep the tax down that would be my advise to anyone who is starting off,I think you get 18 months grace before they hit you with about 2 years worth of tax as a new business.
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
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I would always keep my outgoings highish if your earning you'll only pay it in tax as I have found to my fault this year,if your earning well and don't have any big purchases you'll pay it in tax. If you've had a business you should know this but after you've bought equipment you'll struggle to offset things,I would keep re newing stuff to keep the tax down that would be my advise to anyone who is starting off,I think you get 18 months grace before they hit you with about 2 years worth of tax as a new business.
So you would spend a pound for no other reason than to save twenty pence ?
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
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I mean lease or rent if you out right buy you get the full amount against tax in the first year though still,all I'm saying is there's not much point in keep putting it away and not spending on your business if it's in your account from the business and you haven't spent any money you'll get taxed on it that's all I'm saying.
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.
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Your saying the best way to end up with money in your pocket if you don't spend any money through the business you'll end up with less,I'm only saying this if you are doing enough to be able to get a newer van or poles etc. If you go a whole tax year not buying hardly anything you'll pay more tax I've proved that this year due to not being able to off set certain earnings against tax I've ended up paying more it won't happen again.
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Your saying the best way to end up with money in your pocket if you don't spend any money through the business you'll end up with less,I'm only saying this if you are doing enough to be able to get a newer van or poles etc. If you go a whole tax year not buying hardly anything you'll pay more tax I've proved that this year due to not being able to off set certain earnings against tax I've ended up paying more it won't happen again.
Yes of course you will pay more tax.
But you will have more money in the bank (profit).
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I'll tell the inland revenue that then shall I it's nonsense,in some cases in this job you are better off staying at a certain earning level if you go to a certain bracket and can't lose some through the business it will go down as profit coz you are not able to say through receipts etc I've spent X to get it down its a total of money earned with no expense. At a different level of business they replace anything even if it doesn't need replacing otherwise they'll only pay it in tax it means they get new equipment etc rather than give it to the taxman. It depends what your earning at the end of the day.
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Course you won't your taxed on your profit so if you can keep it slightly down you'll pay less tax but get the benefits of having like I say new equipment etc,I've just spent a week going through it with accounts experts not window cleaners lol.
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More expense is less profit is less tax to pay.
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Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it
Wrong.
To save on tax don't work.
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I've just spent a week going through it with accounts experts not window cleaners lol.
How much did that cost you? An accountant's time for a whole week.
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.
Highlight what you think is nonsense ::)roll yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.
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Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it
Wrong.
To save on tax don't work.
Or work and don't tell. ;D
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More expense is less profit is less tax to pay.
Yes but its less profit, paying tax on profit is better than not having the profit, no profit no money profit with tax some money
its not hard to work out.
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You will have less to pay in tax coz your earning will be lower you'll put the expense down of a contractor or vehicle etc,this is all fine until you go over your particular tax bracket if you don't know when you've gone over and do your accounts it's to late you'll have to pay more for that time worked. You lot can't earn enough lol.
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Lol what do you mean profit most of it is profit in this game that's the point surely isn't it,my point is you need to use things to claim against your earnings because if they all of a sudden rise a lot you will get clobbered if you have no means of getting it back down again.
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BACS and online banking is a wonderful thing but it does have its drawbacks.
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I would always keep my outgoings highish if your earning you'll only pay it in tax as I have found to my fault this year,if your earning well and don't have any big purchases you'll pay it in tax. If you've had a business you should know this but after you've bought equipment you'll struggle to offset things,I would keep re newing stuff to keep the tax down that would be my advise to anyone who is starting off,I think you get 18 months grace before they hit you with about 2 years worth of tax as a new business.
So you would spend a pound for no other reason than to save twenty pence ?
There's some real geniuses on here. ;D
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I would always keep my outgoings highish if your earning you'll only pay it in tax as I have found to my fault this year,if your earning well and don't have any big purchases you'll pay it in tax. If you've had a business you should know this but after you've bought equipment you'll struggle to offset things,I would keep re newing stuff to keep the tax down that would be my advise to anyone who is starting off,I think you get 18 months grace before they hit you with about 2 years worth of tax as a new business.
So you would spend a pound for no other reason than to save twenty pence ?
Well, it's actually 29p by the time you factor in class 4 NI.
As for my van, I am buying it bundled in with a delivery system and some other kit incorporated into the loan, but I take your point.
As I am a lowish mileage user, I will probably have it for 7, maybe 8 years before selling on. It will still have only done 60,000 - 75,000 miles top whack. It's hard to say this far ahead though. I'll have to see how my finances are nearer the time.
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.
Highlight what you think is nonsense ::)roll yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.
What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.
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Your confusing start up costs with yearly running costs, example lets say you pay £10K for your van and plan to keep
it for 5 years then say after 5 years its still worth £4k, your van will have cost you £1200 per year to buy or £100 a month
now considering this will be your biggest outlay by far do you now think its going to cost you another £500 a month for everything else ?
If you were to put the 10k purchase of the van through your accounts you could do it as 10k in one year as Annual Investment Allowance.
Or as a Capital Allowance with a write down percentage of the purchase price over several years.
So on reflection of the cost of the van over several years with percentage deduction of the 10k the amount WILL NOT cost you the same every year over 5 years as you have claimed. The amount you off set against tax will be less on each consecutive year.
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Your confusing start up costs with yearly running costs, example lets say you pay £10K for your van and plan to keep
it for 5 years then say after 5 years its still worth £4k, your van will have cost you £1200 per year to buy or £100 a month
now considering this will be your biggest outlay by far do you now think its going to cost you another £500 a month for everything else ?
If you were to put the 10k purchase of the van through your accounts you could do it as 10k in one year as Annual Investment Allowance.
Or as a Capital Allowance with a write down percentage of the purchase price over several years.
So on reflection of the cost of the van over several years with percentage deduction of the 10k the amount WILL NOT cost you the same every year over 5 years as you have claimed. The amount you off set against tax will be less on each consecutive year.
What's tax got to do with yearly costs ? I spent between £15 and £20k in my first year does that mean my yearly
costs are between £15 and £20k, you need to think more before making silly replies like this.
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SeanK You really shouldn't be commenting on threads like this as it's clear to me you don't have a clue what you are talking about. ;)
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.
Highlight what you think is nonsense ::)roll yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.
What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.
Unbelievable, Buy a van for £15k keep for 5 years then sell it for £7500 how much did it cost you per year ? ok if you
want to get picky you could go into things like interest on the money if you hadn't bought the van or that it might be worth
a few quid less in 5 years but its not hard to get the general meaning of the post.
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SeanK You really shouldn't be commenting on threads like this as it's clear to me you don't have a clue what you are talking about. ;)
Mate I honestly don't think much is clear to you.
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.
Highlight what you think is nonsense ::)roll yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.
What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.
Unbelievable, Buy a van for £15k keep for 5 years then sell it for £7500 how much did it cost you per year ? ok if you
want to get picky you could go into things like interest on the money if you hadn't bought the van or that it might be worth
a few quid less in 5 years but its not hard to get the general meaning of the post.
SeanK look the way you are going about the accounting is all wrong.
What you are doing in your example is 15k - 7.5k = 7.5k then 7.5k /5= 1.5k annually
You are taking the figure and dividing it by 5 to get an average per year.
But that's not how we do our accounts for the Tax Man is it?
As I explained earlier you either put the whole lot through your accounts in one go (AIA) or over several years (Capital Allowance) so the percentage you offset makes the yearly expense variable.
Off the top of my head the Capital Allowance deduction is 18-20% (can't remember exactly at the moment) of the initial purchase price for the first year, then 18% of the remaining value deducted year on year for several years.
Hence your monthly or yearly cost of running your business is variable due to the fluctuating cost of your business expenses.
Can you understand that now?
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When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax
Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.
At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.
Highlight what you think is nonsense ::)roll yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.
What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.
Unbelievable, Buy a van for £15k keep for 5 years then sell it for £7500 how much did it cost you per year ? ok if you
want to get picky you could go into things like interest on the money if you hadn't bought the van or that it might be worth
a few quid less in 5 years but its not hard to get the general meaning of the post.
SeanK look the way you are going about the accounting is all wrong.
What you are doing in your example is 15k - 7.5k = 7.5k then 7.5k /5= 1.5k annually
You are taking the figure and dividing it by 5 to get an average per year.
But that's not how we do our accounts for the Tax Man is it?
As I explained earlier you either put the whole lot through your accounts in one go (AIA) or over several years (Capital Allowance) so the percentage you offset makes the yearly expense variable.
Off the top of my head the Capital Allowance deduction is 18-20% (can't remember exactly at the moment) of the purchase price year on year for several years.
Hence your monthly or yearly cost of running your business is variable due to the fluctuating cost of your business expenses.
Can you understand that now?
I think there's some splitting hairs going on here. You're both right. Sean is talking about average expenses over 5 years whereas Andy is talking about declared expenses for the taxman.
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Andy this is not a post about tax returns its a post about what its going to cost yearly to run your business.
Tax returns and yearly costs are two different bills, example if you buy a new ro membrane this year at £250 you will put it on this
years tax return but the yearly cost to your business has to be divided by the number of years you get use from it, that's why
most companies work their yearly costs out over 5 years.
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Yes I agree with your observation 8 weekly. :)
But the way I'm putting it across is how it is.
Your accounts at the end of the year will show what your expenses have been for that trading year and not an average of what your expenses will cost you over a 5 year period as SeanK is hinting at.
Simple.
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Andy this is not a post about tax returns its a post about what its going to cost yearly to run your business.
Tax returns and yearly costs are two different bills, example if you buy a new ro membrane this year at £250 you will put it on this
years tax return but the yearly cost to your business has to be divided by the number of years you get use from it, that's why
most companies work their yearly costs out over 5 years.
But my accounts are done every year not every 5 years SeanK?
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To work costs me £400 a year van insurance, £200 a year van tax. £2400 a year fuel. £50 MOT. Had my equipment, uniform, system and pole's that are prob 6/7 years old but will say 5 to round it off easier (around £2000 divided by 5 ) £400 a year. A sack of resin £80. filters £60 for the year. Van cost me £3000 5 years ago so again £3000 divided by 5 is £600 a year. Wear an tear on van/servicing etc £500 a year
The above is my business outgoings for just my van without vat, tax or national insurance as those figures differ from 1 person to another.
So £4890 for the year or £407.50 a month For me to be able to goto work without worrying about the other vans and equipment as will get complicated to work out.
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To work costs me £400 a year van insurance, £200 a year van tax. £200 a month fuel. £50 MOT. Had my equipment, uniform, system and pole's that are prob 6/7 years old but will say 5 to round it off easier (around £2000 divided by 5 ) £400 a year. A sack of resin £80. filters £60 for the year. Van cost me £3000 5 years ago so again £3000 divided by 5 is £600 a year.
The above is my business outgoings for just my van without vat, tax or national insurance as those figures differ from 1 person to another.
So £1990 for the year or £165 a month For me to be able to goto work.
Tyres, servicing, website, electricity, IT, insurances, stationary, phone, replacement bits and pieces and so on. It all adds up.
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To work costs me £400 a year van insurance, £200 a year van tax. £200 a month fuel. £50 MOT. Had my equipment, uniform, system and pole's that are prob 6/7 years old but will say 5 to round it off easier (around £2000 divided by 5 ) £400 a year. A sack of resin £80. filters £60 for the year. Van cost me £3000 5 years ago so again £3000 divided by 5 is £600 a year.
The above is my business outgoings for just my van without vat, tax or national insurance as those figures differ from 1 person to another.
So £1990 for the year or £165 a month For me to be able to goto work.
Tyres, servicing, website, electricity, IT, stationary, phone, replacement bits and pieces and so on. It all adds up.
Yep your right ammended it now. It does all add up.
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I suppose the question should be 'what are your business expenses for the year' far simpler. Quick look on your software like George or Cleaner Planner and bobs yer uncle.
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Guys there's lots of you saying my business costs are "approximately" this or "roughly" that...
You should have a handle on your expenses and know exactly what you spend.
If Alan Sugar was reading this post he would be swivelling on his boardroom chair!
:)
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I suppose the question should be 'what are your business expenses for the year' far simpler. Quick look on your software like George or Cleaner Planner and bobs yer uncle.
But that isn't the question Dave, my expenses for last year where around the £1200 mark simply because I didn't need to buy
a single piece of equipment as I had stocked up on all the equipment I needed the year before plus I owe nothing on my van and
equipment and I have access to cheap water.
Now to tell somebody that they could run a wfp window cleaning round on £1200 a year would be nonsense and why its
impossible to work out your running costs over one year.
It takes at least 5 years to get a true figure of what its costing you to run your business year on year which as far as I understand is what the op is looking to know.
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Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.
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People spending money for the sake of it to avoid paying more tax?? Have you never heard of starting a limited company if your tax bill is that much? 3000 ways to avoid tax and keep the money
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Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.
Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.
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Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.
Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.
Brilliant SeanK.. wiping dirt off glass with filtered water.. why so many window cleaners think they are it as so beyond me when all we are is dirt wipers.
Franchise dirt wiper, domestic dirt wiper, commercial dirt wiper.... we are all dirt wipers or in charge of dirt wipers.
I love the way you put that :-) brilliant.
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Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.
Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.
Brilliant SeanK.. wiping dirt off glass with filtered water.. why so many window cleaners think they are it as so beyond me when all we are is dirt wipers.
Franchise dirt wiper, domestic dirt wiper, commercial dirt wiper.... we are all dirt wipers or in charge of dirt wipers.
I love the way you put that :-) brilliant.
Mick there's nobody more proud of what I do than me but I'm going to go out shortly and wash dirt of glass and window frames with filtered water, now I can call myself a business man or a what ever I want but it wont change that fact and its nothing to be
ashamed off.
But that wasn't the point behind the comment, the point was that it doesn't take mega money to do it.
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Dave why do you buy a new pole every year I have had my slx four years and still going strong
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For the whole of 2015 my expenses before tax and nat ins was £7847.36.
That includes a new clutch for the van
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'Most years' I'll buy a pole.
I don't like using worn equipment so when my Extremes wear I'll often buy another complete pole. Brushes every quarter, new hose, replacement fittings etc.
SeanK those figures are straight off my final accounts - the motoring expenses are what they are. A service and mot are normally £300 four tyres could be £500 if you buy quality Michelins Insurance £250 ish, tax about £150 the rest is fuel plus the odd seat cover, wiper blade etc.
The van is paid for - I owe nothing on it fuel normally works out around £30 - £40 a week.
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For the whole of 2015 my expenses before tax and nat ins was £7847.36.
That includes a new clutch for the van
Similar I reckon if you take the clutch out of it.
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Imagine if the above was the norm, even on a grand a week you would have to work almost 8 weeks a year before
you break even.
Plus where Dave's concerned that doesn't even include buying a van. :o
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My expenses woked out at an average of £295.00 a week last business year. I've always found they've gone up every year in line with our turnover.
That figure doesn't include any staff wages.
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My expenses woked out at an average of £295.00 a week last business year. I've always found they've gone up every year in line with our turnover.
That figure doesn't include any staff wages.
Yes but your an employer who puts in a lot of mileage, if you worked alone and travelled less than 50miles per week
with no van or debt to cover what would you be paying yearly ?
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Imagine if the above was the norm, even on a grand a week you would have to work almost 8 weeks a year before
you break even.
Plus where Dave's concerned that doesn't even include buying a van. :o
That's normal for me year after year for eight years. Some years I've bought a guttervac or a generator but motoring expenses never change.
Yesterday I ordered a sill brush, couple of jets, couple of taps and a pro coupling - about £75 I think.
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Dave why do you buy a new pole every year I have had my slx four years and still going strong
Dave's 6 year old slx is still going strong too ;D
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My expenses woked out at an average of £295.00 a week last business year. I've always found they've gone up every year in line with our turnover.
That figure doesn't include any staff wages.
Yes but your an employer who puts in a lot of mileage, if you worked alone and travelled less than 50miles per week
with no van or debt to cover what would you be paying yearly ?
Off the top of my head, the van is £105 a week, extra fuel is probably £15 a week, tools etc not much - £15 a week(?), water - £15.00. Thats £150.00 a week. Probably £175.00 in reality. That brings it down to £120.00.
The figures below include wages
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1452715179_Screen Shot 2016-01-13 at 19.50.38.png)
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Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.
Fuel bıll £400 a year what you driving push bike ?
Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.
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Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.
Fuel bıll £400 a year what you driving push bike ?
Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.
No all my round is within a 4 mile radius with most a mile up the road so about 30 miles a week, you do realise you cant count
driving or mileage that's not work related.
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Blimey some of those fuel figures are low you must be working right on your doorstep,I only use my van for work and my fuel is about 3k a year.
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my fuel bill is around £600-£700 a year.
my expenses still work out at 5k-6k a year (over a 5 year period)including cost of van/equipment,vinyl wrap and sign writing,MOT,road tax,commercial van insurance etc
dont forget resin,lpg,water bill,internet/phone/round software/workwear/boots/stationary etc
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My last full year as a sole trader was just over £10,000. But that did include over £2,000 paying a leafleteer. Total cost of my van in that year was £2,776. The van was paid for already.
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My total expenses for last year came in at £2500 that's includes a percentage for my van and system that was paid in full
8 years ago, obviously that doesn't allow for the amount of years I still have left in my van which could reduce it further.
What I actually spent in cash terms for the year was around £1200 but like I have already said I had stocked up on consumables
and equipment the year before plus I only service the van every second year because of the low millage it does.
8 weekly I honestly wouldn't be in this game if I had to clean £10k worth of work a year before breaking even, if on £40k a
year which would be well above what most earn you would still need to work almost 3 months for nothing. :o
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Interesting to see everybodys comments on here and difference of opinion too!
I was just interested to see roughly what you full time experienced window cleaners are spending on average. First thing i would say is that you need to be detailed with your expenditure and realistic to what you actually spend and don't miss anything out.
Here is a breakdown of my plan of expenditure this year, or when i decide to upgrade my equipment and aim to go full time.
PLEASE NOTE - THIS ISN'T 100% ACCURATE JUST A ROUGH PLAN SO FAR.
Monthly/Yearly
Breakdown Cover £12.50 £150
Internet + Phone £40 £480
Printing Supplies £5 £60
Van Insurance £54 £650
Fuel £80 £960
Moto Account £12 £144
DVLA Vehicle Tax £20 £240
Worldpay £10 £120
WC Equipment* £100 £1,200
Liability Insurance £15 £180
Van Maintenance £40 £480
Bank Loan £185 £2,220
(Loan for £10k for van + System over 5 years, I Don't want a cheap setup)
Total £566 £6,794
*WC Equipment is to cover Resin, Water Bill, IT, Trad Equipment and anything else Miscellaneaous.
Do you think this is too much or about average?
Lastly, how much should i be doing per week turnover wise as a one man band full time. Without a decent van setup i currently do £150 on a winters day - Trad + WFP Trolley. I'm thinking that £750 per week is manageable 4/5 days a week especially more so Spring/Summer, what do you think?
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40 k 5 k expenses would make your TAX bill about £3500 Jan and £3000 in July happy days.
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My total expenses for last year came in at £2500 that's includes a percentage for my van and system that was paid in full
8 years ago, obviously that doesn't allow for the amount of years I still have left in my van which could reduce it further.
What I actually spent in cash terms for the year was around £1200 but like I have already said I had stocked up on consumables
and equipment the year before plus I only service the van every second year because of the low millage it does.
8 weekly I honestly wouldn't be in this game if I had to clean £10k worth of work a year before breaking even, if on £40k a
year which would be well above what most earn you would still need to work almost 3 months for nothing. :o
Ha ha 8 Weekly turns over lots more than that.
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Generally our highest overhead is the van and associated running costs.
Does anyone consider that most employed people have to own and drive a car to get to work (or pay train fare etc.), and they are not able to claim tax back on their travel expenses to and from work.
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My total expenses for last year came in at £2500 that's includes a percentage for my van and system that was paid in full
8 years ago, obviously that doesn't allow for the amount of years I still have left in my van which could reduce it further.
What I actually spent in cash terms for the year was around £1200 but like I have already said I had stocked up on consumables
and equipment the year before plus I only service the van every second year because of the low millage it does.
8 weekly I honestly wouldn't be in this game if I had to clean £10k worth of work a year before breaking even, if on £40k a
year which would be well above what most earn you would still need to work almost 3 months for nothing. :o
Ha ha 8 Weekly turns over lots more than that.
Would like to think it with those expenses. ;D
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Interesting to see everybodys comments on here and difference of opinion too!
I was just interested to see roughly what you full time experienced window cleaners are spending on average. First thing i would say is that you need to be detailed with your expenditure and realistic to what you actually spend and don't miss anything out.
Here is a breakdown of my plan of expenditure this year, or when i decide to upgrade my equipment and aim to go full time.
PLEASE NOTE - THIS ISN'T 100% ACCURATE JUST A ROUGH PLAN SO FAR.
Monthly/Yearly
Breakdown Cover £12.50 £150
Internet + Phone £40 £480
Printing Supplies £5 £60
Van Insurance £54 £650
Fuel £80 £960
Moto Account £12 £144
DVLA Vehicle Tax £20 £240
Worldpay £10 £120
WC Equipment* £100 £1,200
Liability Insurance £15 £180
Van Maintenance £40 £480
Bank Loan £185 £2,220
(Loan for £10k for van + System over 5 years, I Don't want a cheap setup)
Total £566 £6,794
*WC Equipment is to cover Resin, Water Bill, IT, Trad Equipment and anything else Miscellaneaous.
Do you think this is too much or about average?
Lastly, how much should i be doing per week turnover wise as a one man band full time. Without a decent van setup i currently do £150 on a winters day - Trad + WFP Trolley. I'm thinking that £750 per week is manageable 4/5 days a week especially more so Spring/Summer, what do you think?
i think this is a well thought out plan and realistic and achievable.you can earn £750 a week but you need the work in the first place.thats the hard part getting good solid reliable customers that pay you month in/month out. :)
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Interesting to see everybodys comments on here and difference of opinion too!
I was just interested to see roughly what you full time experienced window cleaners are spending on average. First thing i would say is that you need to be detailed with your expenditure and realistic to what you actually spend and don't miss anything out.
Here is a breakdown of my plan of expenditure this year, or when i decide to upgrade my equipment and aim to go full time.
PLEASE NOTE - THIS ISN'T 100% ACCURATE JUST A ROUGH PLAN SO FAR.
Monthly/Yearly
Breakdown Cover £12.50 £150
Internet + Phone £40 £480
Printing Supplies £5 £60
Van Insurance £54 £650
Fuel £80 £960
Moto Account £12 £144
DVLA Vehicle Tax £20 £240
Worldpay £10 £120
WC Equipment* £100 £1,200
Liability Insurance £15 £180
Van Maintenance £40 £480
Bank Loan £185 £2,220
(Loan for £10k for van + System over 5 years, I Don't want a cheap setup)
Total £566 £6,794
*WC Equipment is to cover Resin, Water Bill, IT, Trad Equipment and anything else Miscellaneaous.
Do you think this is too much or about average?
Lastly, how much should i be doing per week turnover wise as a one man band full time. Without a decent van setup i currently do £150 on a winters day - Trad + WFP Trolley. I'm thinking that £750 per week is manageable 4/5 days a week especially more so Spring/Summer, what do you think?
i think this is a well thought out plan and realistic and achievable.you can earn £750 a week but you need the work in the first place.thats the hard part getting good solid reliable customers that pay you month in/month out. :)
Would agree with Dazmond, you could earn £750 a week in most parts of the country if you put your mind to it.
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Interesting to see everybodys comments on here and difference of opinion too!
I was just interested to see roughly what you full time experienced window cleaners are spending on average. First thing i would say is that you need to be detailed with your expenditure and realistic to what you actually spend and don't miss anything out.
Here is a breakdown of my plan of expenditure this year, or when i decide to upgrade my equipment and aim to go full time.
PLEASE NOTE - THIS ISN'T 100% ACCURATE JUST A ROUGH PLAN SO FAR.
Monthly/Yearly
Breakdown Cover £12.50 £150
Internet + Phone £40 £480
Printing Supplies £5 £60
Van Insurance £54 £650
Fuel £80 £960
Moto Account £12 £144
DVLA Vehicle Tax £20 £240
Worldpay £10 £120
WC Equipment* £100 £1,200
Liability Insurance £15 £180
Van Maintenance £40 £480
Bank Loan £185 £2,220
(Loan for £10k for van + System over 5 years, I Don't want a cheap setup)
Total £566 £6,794
*WC Equipment is to cover Resin, Water Bill, IT, Trad Equipment and anything else Miscellaneaous.
Do you think this is too much or about average?
Lastly, how much should i be doing per week turnover wise as a one man band full time. Without a decent van setup i currently do £150 on a winters day - Trad + WFP Trolley. I'm thinking that £750 per week is manageable 4/5 days a week especially more so Spring/Summer, what do you think?
That doesn't look unreasonable in total.
A couple of minor things though: Apparently you can't offset line rental for a phone unless it's a dedicated business line. Also, you would be pushed to explain the cost of broadband, if there were a query from HMRC. In instances like this, it may be better to offset some of the call charges and a proportion of the broadband.
Likewise with the van. If you have a car as well, then 100% allowance for the van would be fine. However, if no car then maybe only offset a large proportion of the van as there is probably some personal use too. This would apply also to interest on van loan payments.
If you were ever to be the subject of an HMRC investigation, that could be the sort of thing they might pick up on.
£750 a week turnover is manageable once you have an established workload. I haven't even done that some years but have had to do more work in recent times to cover higher outgoings.
Oh for the days when I could shin up a ladder and have a very good lifestyle on £300 a week. Debt-free, but stress-free too.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1452860267_IMG_20160115_120414.JPG)
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£455 for Workwear.
Who makes your T-shirts.....Gucci? ;D
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£455 for Workwear.
Who makes your T-shirts.....Gucci? ;D
The same company from where he buys his ink, I'm thinking Harrods. ;D
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Waterproof trainers × 3
Printed polos x6
summer bike mits × 10
showa 490 gloves x3
summer socks x6
winter socks x6
Printed baseball caps x4
joggy bottoms x2
Summer shorts x2
sunglasses x3
Headover x 1
No Gucci im affraid
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1452860267_IMG_20160115_120414.JPG)
Very comprehensive. I do a simiar list, but with slightly less detail. The extra detail could be extracted if necessary (e.g. I lump fuel costs in with other vehicle expenses and just call it "vehicle").
BTW. It's stationery rather than stationary.
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How do you get road tax that high? Two vans?
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How do you get road tax that high? Two vans?
within that time period I purchased 6 months rd tax in March and 12 months in september
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[img width=970
Very comprehensive. I do a simiar list, but with slightly less detail. The extra detail could be extracted if necessary (e.g. I lump fuel costs in with other vehicle expenses and just call it "vehicle").
BTW. It's stationery rather than stationary.
[/quot
its just how George spits it out