Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian101 on January 11, 2016, 05:47:16 pm
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Never actually bought or sold a franchise for window cleaning so my figures a little bit guess work / here say
however I think most tend to sell the licence for circa £9000 + 20% of the supplied turnover plus the franchisee needs a decent van.
Been looking at what an oven cleaning franchise charge which is £15000 +vat plus a monthly lease for van £200 ish ?? plus no doubt a % of turnover
Chipsaway ... car paint repair people ... £30000 + VAT !!!! then a van on top of at £350 ..... then 10% of turnover for royalty and 2% for advertising.
prob more expense if I looked into it further.
I think I will be going down the avenue of the full exterior cleaning service windows, pressure washing, upvc, connies, gutter cleaning.
Plan to be semi retired in 7 years at 55 and convinced for me that franchising is the way ahead as maybe too old to grow a self managing business within 7 years.
NONE of them supply a guaranteed customer base from day 1.
only reason for looking at other franchises is for a feel of what other companies sell their franchises for as this is the route I will be going later this year after a few convos with Vin over last 18 months
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
I see what your are saying but the model where a customer base is given to the franchasiee is a major selling point theres someone on here i think who runs that model, its the only USP you would have really as its a very low barrier business to start
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
lots of reasons more than likely the same as some bloke buying into oven clean franchise / chipsaway franchise these can all be set up without buying a franchise.
personally number 1 reason would be self employed with income from day 1
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
btw I think youre right but it wouldn't stop me taking someones money for a franchise ... however prob would tell them they could do it on their own but franchise easier and quicker
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
Totally agree
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
Smurf, you are right.
There will always be a need to supply a guaranteed, running business to someone who doesn't feel adept at starting one themselves from scratch.
One of the big challenges appears to be knocking on doors looking for and building a customer base. They will do everything to avoid doing that. They want to build fancy websites, pay someone to design and distribute eye catching leaflets, employ someone to post them through letter boxes, promote business on Facebook, pay a canvasser, everything except door knocking themselves.
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I thought the same myself, however several years in I realise it's all about the intangibles, support, camaraderie, knowledge, branding, I.T, marketing, etc, etc.
Yes customer base is important but it won't keep them in the long run, you do need to provide value.
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In answer to Ian's OP I dare say it comes down to supply and demand, no doubt all the franchises mentioned started out with a lower initial sales price in fact most probably offered pilot schemes FOC.
Jim Penman (Jim's Mowing) states that the quality of franchisee improved dramatically when the initial fee was increased.
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I'm betting the franchises soon learn they have made a big mistake after forking out a pot load of money then still have to give a percentage to a third party indefinitely for doing next to bugger all... Sod that ;D
Cocept20 springs to mind http://www.concept2o.com ::)roll
Are people realy that gullable ;D
http://www.concept2o-newstart.com/nutshell.htm
Concept2O™ window cleaning is a fantastic opportunity with over 95% of business being repeat in nature. The high income is predictable, month after month, year after year, so there is no endless marketing and hence the business is very low stress.
Of course, this means in turn that the business is totally flexible; you can grow entirely at your own pace, with predictable ratios and enhanced business systems.
The Concept2O™ business model takes advantage of two major market dislocations, the 2005 Work at Height Regulations, (which state work must be carried out from the ground if it is reasonably practicable), and the advent of pure water window cleaning technology.
The benefits to members of our new start family are that you join an established industry, carrying out an immeasurably superior service compared with traditional window cleaning methods, all at no additional cost to the clients and far quicker for the operator than previously possible.
Standard issue is the Concept2O™ brand and the use of the very best quality equipment available anywhere in the world, totally unique to Concept2O™ owner operators.
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It does work as there a people out there doing it, however I have always felt it to be a limited scope business as in, a handful of franchisees is the very best you can realistically achieve in most cases. From the franchisees prospective, I would be concerned by being handicapped with a 20% price disadvantage to my competitors from the outset.
For me it's one of those things that will work in some cases and in some areas but not universally.
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I had quite a few franchisee's call me to canvass for them. All of them want to get out of the franchise and realise that buying work for x2 instead of buying into a franchise for over 8k and then handing over 20%/25% of there earnngs back to the franchise owner.
For 4k a month of work will cost a franchisee 1k a month on top of the 8k buying into the franchise, so 20k in first year and 12k a year each year after that.
When they realise that they can build work them self for free or pay a canvasser X2 and save 10's of thousands they will soon realise that the grass is actually much greener on the other side unless your a total mug. Its great if they are a mug for the franchise owners but in reality anyone with there head screwed on will soon realise just how easy it is to go there own way, its window cleaning afterall nothing hard about it.
8k buying into a simple window cleaning franchise id say is a lot when you could spend that 8k and have 4k a month every month of your own without paying 1k a month back to the franchise owner.
Franchised round- 1st year cost of 20k
Then 12k a year in royalties whilst your working someones franchise round that you will never outright own.
Buying a canbassed round- 1st year 8k from buying the work
Then 0k a year in royalties
Buying a round at X5 would be better 20k 1 off payment then again no royalties to pay the round owner.
Just my view on it.
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
yeah if your willing to clean anything for very little,it takes years to build something of any value,I think when people talk about generating work quickly the vast majority of it is stuff most established WC's have dumped.
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The question is really why would anybody want to buy a window cleaning franchise in the first place beats me when it's so easy to start up on your own ???
yeah if your willing to clean anything for very little,it takes years to build something of any value,I think when people talk about generating work quickly the vast majority of it is stuff most established WC's have dumped.
So how come the franchisor can do it then?
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Because people that buy hose lock fittings show a lot of interest in it or someone has heard there is money to be earned at it. Why would you buy one have you heard of do you have any proof that anyone has made a go of 1 I have not
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Works well for some, particularly anyone with a decent redundancy package needing work in a hurry. Vin (perfect windows) seems to have successfully gained franchisees and his prices are pretty high for window cleaning. Ian Lancasters Franchisees seem happy.
Some guys don't like canvassing others seem to have it handed to them on a plate when the family passes their business on whilst most of us had to start from nothing.
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Anything I've ever read about this the target market has always been people who have been made redundant,unlike me who had it all handed to them on a platter of course.
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http://www.perfect-windows.co.uk/
I wouldn't call that crap work at their prices.
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It all depends where your working,those prices are nothing special down south,there's chancers everywhere you'll get a leaflet put through a door on a £40-50 house for £20 without them even seeing the back.i don't know what the hit rate is on canvassing or leaflet dropping but I hear it's not good.
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I've often wondered about Franchises, what happens come tax return time? For example, lets use "Ian Lancaster". One of his franchisees filling in his tax form answers the "what name do you trade as..?" Ian Lancaster , yes ? Are you in a partnership ? Answer is yes, or sort of ?
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i don't know what the hit rate is on canvassing or leaflet dropping but I hear it's not good.
What options are better than them ?
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Yeah I'm just saying,I know some people who have canvassed massive areas and not got one I'm talking loads of houses.
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I think you'll find Vin has set up a very good franchise business on leaflets alone. Trouble is nobody is prepared to listen to him because they know it all already.
Vins is based on Ian Lancasters set up - another very successful franchise business.
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Franchising DOES NOT work! Stay away, don't bother, avoid!!
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1452633255_image.jpeg)
From one £6.50 job to not having to raise my pole again all in 5 years. Boom, franchising works!
To answer the original question, yes far too cheap!!
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1452633255_image.jpeg)
From one £6.50 job to not having to raise my pole again all in 5 years. Boom, franchising works!
To answer the original question, yes far too cheap!!
Id have thought with only 4 franchisees working things wouldnt be 'boom' quite yet going by royalties at 20% technically you dont even have a full 100% round as 1 would without having to franchise. I do see the bigger picture though, with 10/15 franchises then the boom would start taking shape.
Well done to you though as looks like you have done well so far on your journey.
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Can I ask why you say I only have 4 Mick? Hope its not because there's only 4 vans in the picture!
2 of my franchisees run 2 man vans and I have more than 4 vans on the road Mick. Another 2 starting in April, our own canvassing department, premises, and another business running using our window cleaning database.
I have used one of your comments Mick from a few years ago as a bit of a driving force these last few years so would like to thank you for that. It's amazing where you take a window cleaning business with a bit of hard graft.
My boom time was when I didn't have to clean windows again if I didn't want too.
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Then fair play to you. Good to hear success.
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How much is he earning 4 vans 10 vans what's it earning a month.
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I am assuming what they turnover a day - the %
Most seem to take 20%
So on a £250 day % = £50 turnover
10 vans 500£ a day turnover..........?
All guess work.
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With that income he's still going to be paying 40% tax would it not be easier to have 2 vans 1 in each doing 300 each and taking £300 a day for running it,go to be less hassle and more managable.
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With that income he's still going to be paying 40% tax would it not be easier to have 2 vans 1 in each doing 300 each and taking £300 a day for running it,go to be less hassle and more managable.
I don't know what they actually earn. If it was smooth and no hassle once setup. Id be happy with £200 a day for doing absolutely nothing.
You only pay tax on the % they give you.
So if one does 500£ in. A day. You ain't declaring £500.
Plus you would have to be VAT registered as income I am guessing would be more than 80k
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It obviously works as people do it, successfully.
http://www.fwcfranchise.com
Longer term I think its best.
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Don't the Franchisees pay tax? Wouldn't you then avoid VAT and all the hassle normal employees encounter like sick pay, insurance etc?
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Don't the Franchisees pay tax? Wouldn't you then avoid VAT and all the hassle normal employees encounter like sick pay, insurance etc?
They work independently, but trade under your company name with a licence, which I believe is normally 5 years with an option to re-new. Ie Wayne Rooney T/A Dave Willis Window Cleaning. He uses your name, logo, and works to your standards - you provide the work and he pays a royalty to you.
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If your interested in earning as much as you can NOW, then franchising is probably not for you. If you would like a relatively hassle free life in say 5 years time earning a good living without getting out of bed, but can sacrifice short term good earnings NOW, then franchising IS for you. I have a 10 year plan, im half way there. Re investing business profits back into it will accelerate its growth and give me a very healthy income in the future. New vans and fancy cars are on hold, more customers and more happy franchisees are the 'one thing' im concentrating on. Franchise royalty payments help fund the canvassing team who in turn generate more monthly turnover which then generates more royalty payments. Now imagine earning royalty on £50,000 every 4 weeks!
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What are your plans when the royalties are in excess of the VAT threshold David? Are you already registered?
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I'm living for today not 20 odd years down the line I have seen so many people have bad news or lose people this last couple of years it makes you think about things a bit more,if I want something and it won't cause sleepless nights I'll have it life is to short.
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What i dont get is the need for a unit, surely to lower runnng costs even more you can do without it as franchisees should fill up at there own place or with di systems in vans or do you have them pay you a fee for water??if so good idea but does it cover needing a unit to say your the big i am??. I dont get you saying not botherd about running new vans to pump the spare money back in yet you have a unit that would cost the same as leasing 3 or 4 new vans a month which seems Madness.
Sorry if sounds like im a negative, im actualy interested in it as was thinking about it a while back.
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I have never understood why a person would invest say £10-12k franchising a domestic window cleaning round off joe blogs window cleaning and then pay them 20% .
minus your tax and expenses you would be clearing for around 50% to basically clean someone else's work.
I know a few on here are making a success of it and fair play to them I respect that.
But I struggle to see why people thinking of franchising would not invest that money in them selfs.
With franchise in other sectors your buying in to a national house hold name like Mc Donald's ,Dominos, etc but to franchise off a small relatively unknown company I struggle to see why when with a bit of research and finance you can do it your self and own the whole lot.
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I can't believe people with half a brain still go for this there obviously is but how long before they think this is a joke it's human nature,as well as having to fill up at home pay there monthly fee for the work etc at the end of the day they will think bigger this the wait for the monthly rent would get longer and longer surely. Most people I've had soon grasp they could do this on there own or would like to try to but soon realise it's not as easy as first thought,with this in mind though although they have no work to find as soon as the novelty has worn off and they jack it in you'll be left with a load of work to service. Most domestic customers like the personal touch they like to choose who they have,we haven't quiet reached that milestone yet in this job like a firm of plumbers etc whe the customer just wants there boiler fixed in this job they like to know who's cleaning there Windows you will be calling round to do them on a regular basis and some people don't like to much change.
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How many people do you know honestly in this job who have started by investing thousands of pounds,most I know that start this job don't have a pot. Is this a reality or are some on here just giving there ideal business scenario for there business.
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NWH there are people who will buy used poles on Ebay for more than their new price, never underestimate the power of
stupidity or the ability of somebody to exploit it.
By the way I invested thousands of pounds in this job before I had one customer or knew a single thing about wfp and yes it did come from a redundancy package ;D
There are plenty of people out there willing to take a risk if the idea sounds good
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I agree it does sound good but we all know about things that sound good don't we,I'm not saying people don't or won't do it all I'm saying is if they have any clue after a while they will get there own work and stop paying the fee it's human nature how long is it going to be before they think about doing all the graft and paying you for he privelidge. It may work for a while but I reckon once they say you can have it back I'm not paying you anymore can you imagine the agro you'll be left with trying to take him to court etc it would take months and cost money to get a small amount of money back from them and be left with a demolished round of work.
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Many window cleaners are charging ridiculously low prices. Given a choice of charging £10 a house and keeping the lot or £23 a house and paying over 20%, I know which I'd choose.
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Sorry I didn't get that last post
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Sorry I didn't get that last post
http://www.perfect-windows.co.uk/pwpricing.html
When a franchisee starts with Perfect Windows, that's what they charge. Loads of windowcleaners earn £100-£150 a day and think they are doing ok because they don't have the knowledge, confidence and wherewithal to earn that sort of money. A franchisee at Perfect Windows is buying into a well priced business model.
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See what you mean but you would like I say be very green to buy into that.
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I've often wondered about Franchises, what happens come tax return time? For example, lets use "Ian Lancaster". One of his franchisees filling in his tax form answers the "what name do you trade as..?" Ian Lancaster , yes ? Are you in a partnership ? Answer is yes, or sort of ?
No. That's the whole point about franchising.
Each franchise is a separate business in its own right. Franchising has been around for an awful long time, so any problems like that were ironed out long before I got involved.
Each franchisee fills in his own tax return, based on the value of the work he has done in the accounting period. My income is royalties from the franchisees, for which I invoice them. Because we are all separate businesses we only attract VAT if our individual turnover exceeds the limit. It is quite possible for a franchisee to be VAT registered but the franchisor (me) not - the total I receive from all my franchisees doesn't exceed the VAT limit.
In reply to all the people who can't understand why anyone would want to buy a franchise as it's "so easy to start up for yourself" when we take on a new franchisee, I tell them exactly that - there are thousands of window cleaners out there who all started up by themselves, anyone can do it, so why would you (the prospective franchisee) want to pay to join us? The answer is always "because I like the idea of you guaranteeing me as much work as I can handle and I worry I wouldn't be able to manage that on my own".
I then tell them that if they do join us, there is no way they will ever own any of the work we find for them and even more, any work that they pick up is ours, not theirs. Even after this (and I try very hard to dissuade them - I don't want people who aren't committed) they still want to sign up. I've only ever had one who thought it over then decided to go it alone.
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Hi again Mick, the substantially sized unit with fenced and gated car park costs me very little. It took me a year to find the right spot at the right price. We run a hot tub hire business from it to so need the storage space. Each franchised van buys water from me. (they can make there own if they want too) I intend to let the business pay for the unit and land (why wouldn't I) Having a central unit/office base, branded vans, uniforms etc etc all helps with attracting new custom.
As regard to the VAT level. You cant avoid it if you want to grow a big business. Personally I could survive on royalties just a couple of grand short of the current VAT threshold. Maybe if the wife had a separate business turning over just below it as well we could go on holiday.
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Hi Ian I'm interested in what you do but I cannot see over time how you can keep complete tabs on what there all doing day in day out,if there knocking the odd 50-100 you would never know
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How much is your unit a month.
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It may work for a while but I reckon once they say you can have it back I'm not paying you anymore can you imagine the agro you'll be left with trying to take him to court etc it would take months and cost money to get a small amount of money back from them and be left with a demolished round of work.
Why would I want to take him to court? He is entitled to resign if he wants to, or more realistically to sell his franchise. As for just walking away, after he's done that I would simply sell the franchise as a fully developed business with potential to earn a new owner an income way above what he may be earning now.
It's happened, more than once.
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The customers I do would never accept any Tom or dick turning up it wouldn't happen,they need to be able to trust people who work round there houses,this is nothing detrimental to you or your work but on my particular work it wouldn't be doable not in a million years. If I sent a new bloke round most of them would be straight on the phone to me,I've had it in the past even on commercial work.
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Hi Ian I'm interested in what you do but I cannot see over time how you can keep complete tabs on what there all doing day in day out,if there knocking the odd 50-100 you would never know
We use Aworka. As franchisor I have access to each franchisee's Aworka account so I can see on a day to day basis what they are doing.
Moonlighting is a problem that affects all aspects of business, not just franchising. If you employ your employees will be tempted on a daily basis to cheat on you. How would you manage that? Would the prospect dissuade you from employing? If so then expansion is probably not for you.
I use a spreadsheet devised for me by my daughter-in-law which shows me at a glance how my franchisees are performing - some have higher expectations than others but over time I know how much each wants to earn per week. If I see a franchisee is turning over less than is reasonable there are various things I can do. The most effective is to canvass over an area that the franchisee has work in - if he is moonlighting I will soon knock on the door of one of his "black" customers, all I need do then is warn him I'm checking on his work and offer an 'armistice' - over the next few days a load of 'new' jobs will appear on his Aworka.
I will probably never stop the odd 'back pocket' job but the longer they do an undeclared regular job, the more likely they are to be caught out.
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The customers I do would never accept any Tom or dick turning up it wouldn't happen,they need to be able to trust people who work round there houses,this is nothing detrimental to you or your work but on my particular work it wouldn't be doable not in a million years. If I sent a new bloke round most of them would be straight on the phone to me,I've had it in the past even on commercial work.
Of course, but then your customer know you are a 'one man band' and would rightly be suspicious of anyone strange. We have changed franchisees many times. Before the new man starts we write individually to every customer and explain the situation, a carefully worded letter will work every time. There are usually some who refuse the new man, but they are the ones who were looking for an excuse to cancel anyway.
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Hi Ian I'm interested in what you do but I cannot see over time how you can keep complete tabs on what there all doing day in day out,if there knocking the odd 50-100 you would never know
That's because you are thinking about the kind of people you employ.
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No it's not they never lasted long because they were not right I had 1 for 7 years all the others have been useless,if I need help I sub it these days.
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The customers I do would never accept any Tom or dick turning up it wouldn't happen,they need to be able to trust people who work round there houses,this is nothing detrimental to you or your work but on my particular work it wouldn't be doable not in a million years. If I sent a new bloke round most of them would be straight on the phone to me,I've had it in the past even on commercial work.
But they are ok with you turning up?
;D
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The customers I do would never accept any Tom or dick turning up it wouldn't happen,they need to be able to trust people who work round there houses,this is nothing detrimental to you or your work but on my particular work it wouldn't be doable not in a million years. If I sent a new bloke round most of them would be straight on the phone to me,I've had it in the past even on commercial work.
To be fair I do agree to a point with what you're saying. I think we may have similar customers, and I know the ones where I should be there, and the ones I don't.
However I still think I could build a good business for a franchisee. There are those who want to work as a window cleaner but have no idea how to build such a business, and feel comfortable working with someone who can show how good their business is and why its worth investing. Just look at Ian Lancaster, KentKleen, Perfect Windows etc...
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See what you mean but you would like I say be very green to buy into that.
Two of our franchisees came along to see us at a jobs fair and decided that they should go it alone rather than franchise. They did a bundle of work then decided to go with us. The reason? They both say that our prices less their commission is higher than they would have had the balls to charge, so they both see the other benefits of the franchise as coming effectively free of charge. That wasn't "green", it was a clearly thought out decision.
And before you say it, our prices aren't standard for the South by any means.
Vin
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And, back to the OPs question, our franchise price is deliberately low.
I can't speak for anyone else but if we sold a franchise for say £30K there's a perverse incentive to sell them for the short term boost in cash. Need a round-the-world cruise? Sell a franchise. New car? Sell a franchise. Stuff whether they are going to flourish long term.
Nope, our franchise and a van costs less than a half decent car and the incentive for us becomes to keep the franchisee full, supported, motivated, happy and earning as much as possible for as little work as possible for as long as possible.
Vin
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Might work on run of the mill work but all my work comes from recommendations most good work does.
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See what you mean but you would like I say be very green to buy into that.
Two of our franchisees came along to see us at a jobs fair and decided that they should go it alone rather than franchise. They did a bundle of work then decided to go with us. The reason? They both say that our prices less their commission is higher than they would have had the balls to charge, so they both see the other benefits of the franchise as coming effectively free of charge. That wasn't "green", it was a clearly thought out decision.
And before you say it, our prices aren't standard for the South by any means.
Vin
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Might work on run of the mill work but all my work comes from recommendations most good work does.
I don't understand this post at all. What's "run of the mill work"?
Vin
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I think pricing is a real issue with a lot of cleaners as like you say they don't have the balls to charge nearly enough for what the job is really worth. That has ultimately lead to jo public being price conditioned over the years.
When cleaners start competing on price alone most realise in a very short time they are working their nuts off for very little reward.
Then they will either do two things:
1. pack it and say it did not work for me which most do
2. stop competing on price alone
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Might work on run of the mill work but all my work comes from recommendations most good work does.
I don't understand this post at all. What's "run of the mill work"?
Vin
I think what the real question should be is how do you retain control of franchises and the royalties due when their round grows organically by people recommending them to others. Also the "can you justers" that want extras done like having their gutters cleared and cleaned etc that happens to go into the franchises back pocket?
If they charge enough for this extra work be it by recommendations for window cleaning, one-off’s or yearly exterior cleans for gutters etc they will soon realise they can increase their income substantially without the franchiser ever knowing surely?
It’s a bit like saying “do you want fries with that but don't tell the boss” ;D
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I think what the real question should be is how do you retain control of franchises and the royalties due when their round grows organically by people recommending them to others. Also the can you justers that want extras done like having their gutters cleared and cleaned etc that happens to go into the franchises back pocket?
It's a good question.
You can have systems in place to keep track of franchisees, and we do. However, IMO the most important thing is to have the right people.
It's easy to (and plenty on this thread have) become fixated on the 20% royalty but it's possible to see it another way. Typically as an employee, you'll get anything from 15% to 30% of what you make for your employer. Our franchisees get 80%. If you have people who see it like that, you're fine.
Am I going to be worried about a gutter, fascia and soffit clean paid in cash going into the guys' pockets occasionally? No, not really (but I'll also add that my advice to them all is not to bother more because of HMRC than for our benefit). Why wouldn't I be bothered? Because this is a long-term relationship and that's the bit that matters. I'd care deeply about the systematic fraud involved in hiding customers (for that is what it would be) because that's affecting the long-term relationship.
I treat franchisees like they are trustworthy adults and, to date, they have all responded by being trustworthy adults.
Vin
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So really you don't have a clue what they get upto then Vin?
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Thought so ;D
Edit: Oops! why did you delete your post "no we don't" Vin as make my reply look like I'm talking to myself?
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So really you don't have a clue what they get upto then Vin?
No you're quite right. They are all fleecing me mercilessly. Did you read my post?
By the end of 2017 two of them will be at the VAT limit so if they do have work on the side they'll have the Vatman to answer to rather than me.
Vin
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So I read that as you have given both franchises enough work that they will have to become VAT registered next year.
Is that correct?
If so my next question would be what impact would that have for them to charge all customers VAT including run of the mill domestic customers and what do the other franchises think of this?
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Just below.
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Hypothetically speaking that's more incentive for them to start/continue fleecing you then surely?
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Going back to my origanal question that you did not really answer that im still intregued to find out.
How do you actually police your franchises activities to know if they are not fleecing you for sure?
If so what action would you take?
Also being that your trading name is on all the vans how would you handle any complaints that may lead to damaging your reputation?
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Hypothetically speaking that's more incentive for them to start/continue fleecing you then surely?
Why assume that they are inherently dishonest? You're not saying it out loud but you're repeatedly implying it.
If I were a franchisee I would account for every penny. Not because I'd fear being watched or caught but because it would be dishonest not to. Maybe you can't accept that there are people like that but I can.
Vin
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Hypothetically speaking that's more incentive for them to start/continue fleecing you then surely?
Why assume that they are inherently dishonest? You're not saying it out loud but you're repeatedly implying it.
If I were a franchisee I would account for every penny. Not because I'd fear being watched or caught but because it would be dishonest not to. Maybe you can't accept that there are people like that but I can.
Vin
It's just down to human nature I suppose as goes for employing people too. If given the opportunity most would take advantage of making some money on the side no matter how honest you may think they are surely?
One story sticks in my mind of a lady window cleaner that employed a so say very nice educated chap to help out one day a week on her round & also covered her holidays. He used her van and wfp kit to cover her round but then she started to query the water usage when it started to increase. To find out what was going she spoke to a few customers and when a tracker was fitted to the van the true story started to unfold.
The lady window cleaner was utterly gob smacked that such a nice man would fleece her as was paid well for his time but still was taking on extra work without telling her and pocketing the money himself.
As they saying goes "you give em an inch they will take a mile"
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All my franchisees keep 100% of there add on work. I only earn royalties on the regular window cleaning work. There rounds have to be up to date and always are. Smurf, you really need to start trusting people more not everyone is out too rip you off. As regard to 'knowing' what your franchisee is doing each week surely you have heard of the various software available that makes this a doddle to do.
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If given the opportunity most would take advantage of making some money on the side no matter how honest you may think they are surely?
I'd write that sentence like this: "If given the opportunity some might take advantage of making some money on the side..."
That's where we differ.
Vin
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I think pricing is a real issue with a lot of cleaners as like you say they don't have the balls to charge nearly enough for what the job is really worth. That has ultimately lead to jo public being price conditioned over the years.
When cleaners start competing on price alone most realise in a very short time they are working their nuts off for very little reward.
Then they will either do two things:
1. pack it and say it did not work for me which most do
2. stop competing on price alone
I have taken option 2, but it's easier to implement on new work. Existing work is being brought up more gradually as I'm not in a position to withstand a mass exodus of customers
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Run of the mill work is normal houses in culdesacs terrace houses flats council or ex council etc the stuff a canvasser will 9 times out of 10 get you people that have had WCs before and then sacked them off. This all looks lovely on paper but some on here are making sound like you've got prats queuing up to give them 20-30 grand so they can go and clean someone else's work,any person with half a brain would either buy a round so they haven't got to pay someone 20% for the privilege lol. If your getting people to do this good on ya but to say it's a great opertunity is unrealistic. I wonder how many people who have done this job before return to it and buy a franchise.
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To everyone who keeps saying franchising won't work or isn't worth buying into, you are entitled to your opinion and have every right to voice that opinion.
But opinions don't alter facts, and these speak for themselves. There are 25 franchise businesses around the country all operating my system and in various stages of development. Additionally there are many more who have devised their own systems.
I appointed my first franchisee in 2006, so our 10 year anniversary is coming up this year. We are still a viable and lucrative organisation and will continue to be so. If franchising were so beset with problems and if 'no-one in their right minds' would buy a franchise then we would have collapsed years ago.
No matter how much you would like to be able to say 'I told you so' that won't change the fact, demonstrated by years of experience that franchising works, and works very well - at least as well as employing. Both methods have problems, of course they do but no business on earth that has personnel other than the principle is problem free but if everyone had the attitude 'it'll never work' there wouldn't be huge multinationals and modest SME's
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Well said that man ;)
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It's still interesting to find out that some can keep 100% of add-on/new work they gain themselves and others have to still pay a percentage though. Can anyone that is running a franchise business explain their reasoning behind this please?
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I don't know of any franchised organisation that allows franchisees to build an independent customer base. This would undermine the Franchise Agreement and render the franchise unworkable. I think you may have misunderstood when (was it Mick Kent?) said he didn't charge royalties on 'extras'. He was referring to 'one off' jobs such as gutter clearing/fascia cleaning etc. We charge royalties on all regular work of whatever nature. If during the working day a franchisee is asked to do a 'one off' and this doesn't prevent him from completing his day's regular work then we turn a blind eye. If the job were a 'repeat', i.e. regular then he would be expected to add it to his customer base and pay royalties on it. This is covered in the Franchise Agreement. It doesn't make sense that a franchisee would be encouraged to build a separate round.
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So really you don't have a clue what they get upto then Vin?
No you're quite right. They are all fleecing me mercilessly. Did you read my post?
By the end of 2017 two of them will be at the VAT limit so if they do have work on the side they'll have the Vatman to answer to rather than me.
Vin
By the end of 2017 I'll be prime minister!! ::)roll ;D ;D
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I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it don't take long to figure out what services make the most profit as domestic run of the mill window cleaning is not high on the list compared to other services if priced right.
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This is a very interesting subject.
The real issue is "goodwiil" i.e who owns it?
In the late 1990's the courts in the U.K decided that any goodwill built up by the franchisee is owned by the franchisee. This is a case involving Pizza Express.
The Australian courts have ruled that all goodwill is owned by the Franchisee. It would be interesting to see if the courts in this country would also decide the same. I suspect they would.
But it also raises the question, if a person is doing your work, with your name is he a Franchisee or subcontractor.
The phrase involving a barge pole springs to mind.
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* [EDITED] Changed my mind. Not worth the argument.
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My charity is support the franchisee they need all the help they can get lol.
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* Changed my mind. Not worth the argument.
I don't know why you bother in the first place.
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* Changed my mind. Not worth the argument.
I don't know why you bother in the first place.
I know. I haven't posted in ages and I really should know better. I gave up offering advice quite some time ago but occasionally I crack.
Back to the shadows...
Vin
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I could put someone off buying into a window cleaning franchise as quick as I could put them off buying an ionic van with thermopure system in it for 30 +k.
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This is a very interesting subject.
The real issue is "goodwiil" i.e who owns it?
In the late 1990's the courts in the U.K decided that any goodwill built up by the franchisee is owned by the franchisee. This is a case involving Pizza Express.
The Australian courts have ruled that all goodwill is owned by the Franchisee. It would be interesting to see if the courts in this country would also decide the same. I suspect they would.
But it also raises the question, if a person is doing your work, with your name is he a Franchisee or subcontractor.
The phrase involving a barge pole springs to mind.
You haven't actually read that case though, have you? It was allowed because Pizza express was a soft franchise setup at the time. They provided no training, no uniform, no operations manual and the franchisees paid for their own advertising. They also didn't pay a lump sum to buy into the franchise in the first place. None on this would apply with an Ian Lancaster franchise setup.
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* Changed my mind. Not worth the argument.
I don't know why you bother in the first place.
I know. I haven't posted in ages and I really should know better. I gave up offering advice quite some time ago but occasionally I crack.
Back to the shadows...
Vin
It was bliss then you went and ruined it!! :-*
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* Changed my mind. Not worth the argument.
I don't know why you bother in the first place.
I know. I haven't posted in ages and I really should know better. I gave up offering advice quite some time ago but occasionally I crack.
Back to the shadows...
Vin
Really by now you should have accepted that you're wrong, it'll never work. And don't forget, leaflets don't work either.
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This is a very interesting subject.
The real issue is "goodwiil" i.e who owns it?
In the late 1990's the courts in the U.K decided that any goodwill built up by the franchisee is owned by the franchisee. This is a case involving Pizza Express.
The Australian courts have ruled that all goodwill is owned by the Franchisee. It would be interesting to see if the courts in this country would also decide the same. I suspect they would.
But it also raises the question, if a person is doing your work, with your name is he a Franchisee or subcontractor.
The phrase involving a barge pole springs to mind.
You haven't actually read that case though, have you? It was allowed because Pizza express was a soft franchise setup at the time. They provided no training, no uniform, no operations manual and the franchisees paid for their own advertising. They also didn't pay a lump sum to buy into the franchise in the first place. None on this would apply with an Ian Lancaster franchise setup.
I suppose we'll not know until it's tested in a UK court. I can't imagine how much the franchises will be worth if it goes in favour of the franchisee!! ;D
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That is why these things go to court.
You have to assess the risks for yourself.
The problem here is the risk.
You are all talking about the franchise fee. This fee needs to reflect what you (franchisor) is putting in.
You cannot just guess a number.
If you decide that getting the work is part of that fee, then you cannot charge for getting work and then keeping it. After all the Franchisee has paid you for that work.
No matter what is said here or opinions given, a contract has to be fair and cannot overrule tax or employment laws.
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I could put someone off buying into a window cleaning franchise as quick as I could put them off buying an ionic van with thermopure system in it for 30 +k.
I'm interested why you're so against the idea of rewarding people who work with you. Your posts above are full of complaints about the type of person you get when you're employing. Well, there's a very old phrase, "Pay peanuts, get cretins". Our franchisees earn a great deal of money for working three day weeks. Why would they shirk or disappear or not be keen to learn when they are making a lot of money and are in control of what they do?
I know the standard response on here is that something you don't even try to understand can't work or that you're talking tripe if you dare to suggest that you might be successful. However, if you actually gave it some thought, you might just see that a franchise attracts the sort of person you might be happy to trust to do a good and reliable job.
I know the noisy ones on here are unpersuadable and that some people on here never, ever do anything but snipe (and seem weirdly proud of the job!)
However, I found my first franchisee on here and he was well-met indeed. I'd trust him to the end of the earth and he's earning a good living (soon to be exceptional with the number of customers we're going to gain over the summer). Hopefully someone else reading this thread might contact me about a franchise; I'm sure they'll end up very happy. In fact, I'll do everything in my power to make them so. At the moment we only franchise in Southampton so if you're out there wondering whether to dip your toe in the water, contact me. If you do I'll pass you straight to the franchisees to discuss how they are doing.
Vin
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i think its great what Vin/ian/kent kleen has done.
If i was new to window cleaning and read this thread i would jump onto this. I think i would be better off with Vin than doing my own work ;D ;D ;D
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i think its great what Vin/ian/kent kleen has done.
If i was new to window cleaning and read this thread i would jump onto this. I think i would be better off with Vin than doing my own work ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, but the usual CIU no hopers are quick to pour scorn.
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I like to keep an open mind myself but just was trying to get my head around the benefits, pros & cons etc of running a franchise business.
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I could put someone off buying into a window cleaning franchise as quick as I could put them off buying an ionic van with thermopure system in it for 30 +k.
I'm interested why you're so against the idea of rewarding people who work with you. Your posts above are full of complaints about the type of person you get when you're employing. Well, there's a very old phrase, "Pay peanuts, get cretins". Our franchisees earn a great deal of money for working three day weeks. Why would they shirk or disappear or not be keen to learn when they are making a lot of money and are in control of what they do?
I know the standard response on here is that something you don't even try to understand can't work or that you're talking tripe if you dare to suggest that you might be successful. However, if you actually gave it some thought, you might just see that a franchise attracts the sort of person you might be happy to trust to do a good and reliable job.
I know the noisy ones on here are unpersuadable and that some people on here never, ever do anything but snipe (and seem weirdly proud of the job!)
However, I found my first franchisee on here and he was well-met indeed. I'd trust him to the end of the earth and he's earning a good living (soon to be exceptional with the number of customers we're going to gain over the summer). Hopefully someone else reading this thread might contact me about a franchise; I'm sure they'll end up very happy. In fact, I'll do everything in my power to make them so. At the moment we only franchise in Southampton so if you're out there wondering whether to dip your toe in the water, contact me. If you do I'll pass you straight to the franchisees to discuss how they are doing.
Vin
This time next year Rodney.......
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve?? ::)roll
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Isthis how it works??
I build up 400 x £10 over a 4 month period whist working the round untill the 400 customer target is hit, i then advertise for a franchisee to join at 8k for which with the 8k ill need to buy a van and system for them too use so no change there which is fair enough? Or maybe they have there own van?
Franchisee then works and out of the 4k he cleans a month i get 1k in royalties.
In a year i could have 3 franchisee's working cleaning 12k in total and ill recieve 3k a month in royalties for doing nothing at all.
In 4 years i could have 12 franchisee's cleaning 48k a month with £12k royalties to me a month.
in 10 years i could have 30 franchisee's cleaning 120k a month with 30k in royalties to me a month.
If this is the basics then what a fantastic way to make a living.
Is there any window cleaning franchise companies making that sort of profit out there??
If so and its that easy then what a brilliant way to build and run a business.
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Envy goodness me lol,I can see this concept might work yes I can but it would only work selling it to someone completely new to this business. The initial fee is there to stop them backing out early clever move,initial outlay 20% to you weekly 20-25% to the taxman + expenses if you gave em a grand a weeks worth of work what would they end up with 6-650 a week if they get through the weeks work. If there working alday for that and you break that down by the hour you get the bigger picture.
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You have to remember that not everyone wants the hassle of getting the customers, advertising and building a reputation. Many new to the job will also have bucket loads of questions and would like to feel as though, should they run into any trouble not knowing what to do in a certain situation or with equipment, that someone is there to help.
Most of us on here will have joined because we've already started up ourselves and now imagine losing 20% of our money and think that would be pointless. But they never have to look for more work, there part of a team of people and most importantly there in a halfway house between being employed and being the boss. They have a fair amount of freedom to work when they want, but they dont have the hassle of building this all up. To many people being made redundant I would imagine would be quite a scary thing, if you then look into window cleaning as what you want to do and see many here saying 1 to 2 years to get a good round or franchise and have a good amount coming in within a few months with training and guidance it would be easy to see why that is appealing to those with family, mortgage & other bills to pay. Plus in Vins case, he's mentioned his franchisees don't feel they could get his prices, so really without his pricing had they gone it alone they'd probably be earning less anyway.
Just my view.
Tom
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It's ideal for anyone who needs a job basically. They get made redundant and want desperately to work. Even £600 a week is better than the dole. So in their eyes why not? Not much different to being employed really. Lot of good things in the package for both sides, obviously more for the Franchisor and that's the whole point.
The attraction is they are GUARANTEED work. When I started out there was no guarantee I'd find enough work to live off.
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You say they have the freedom to work when they want yes they do so if they decieded they only wanted to do 15 days a month no wonder there's a few interviews to see if there suitable. To argue the pros and cons is not negative or envious of anyone it's simply looking at it for what it is not suitable for someone looking to work for thereselves because there not,why wouldn't they by a car for 8-10 grand get there local licence and drive a Taxi then they can work when they like sit in the warm and end up with the same in there pocket. Lets not forget these people can't or have never cleaned Windows before do you honestly think they are going to go out and clean enough work at a good enough standard week in week out,I can't see it happening and working on planet earth it sounds lovely though doesn't it just get the work and take a cut for doing nout.
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You say they have the freedom to work when they want yes they do so if they decieded they only wanted to do 15 days a month no wonder there's a few interviews to see if there suitable. To argue the pros and cons is not negative or envious of anyone it's simply looking at it for what it is not suitable for someone looking to work for thereselves because there not,why wouldn't they by a car for 8-10 grand get there local licence and drive a Taxi then they can work when they like sit in the warm and end up with the same in there pocket. Lets not forget these people can't or have never cleaned Windows before do you honestly think they are going to go out and clean enough work at a good enough standard week in week out,I can't see it happening and working on planet earth it sounds lovely though doesn't it just get the work and take a cut for doing nout.
I think you will find if they wanted to do private hire cabby work they would have to rent a system from an established firm which is not cheap to get any work as it's ilegal to pick up jobs without punters booking first. If you know anyone that does private hire cabby work they will tell you they have to work really long and unsocial hours to make a living at it. However the large firm that rents out the cabby systems are laughing all the way to the bank, ;D
If your on about say London black cabby plates then they change hands for loads of money as are like rocking horse poope to get hold off. :D
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I'm casting my mind back to ate 1991 when I first started window cleaning.
I had no mentor, had to practice on my own windows, and was very short of money. Obviously, that far back, it was all ladders too.
With m any people paying 15%ish on their mortgages, it was a very slow start. I was out canvassing from late afternoon onward. It wasn't every day by any stretch. I was canvassing work for two or three days later. I woud get a few jobs to clean (sometimes very few), and then go out for a part day and clean them. Then I would do it again. Very slowly, the gaps shrank. I picked up so many messers that I could easily go out for the day and only do half the work planned. It started getting more difficult as my work days filled because I needed energy to canvass afterward.
At the time, I didn't realise how awful my pricing was.
If I had had some money behind me and someone offered me a van (with WFP) and guaranteed me all the work I wanted for an upfront fee and an ongoing royalty payment afterwards, I could have been tempted - especially as the higher pricing of an experienced franchisor would likely have covered the royalties and more.
It's would be easy for me now to say that I woudn't do that. Of course I wouldn't. These days I have a fullish round that is priced fairly well for the most part. But remembering back 25 years to those long evenings door knocking, working for too little, and putting up with loads of messers because I knew no better, someone could have helped me bypass much of that.
Plucking figures from the air, I suppose it comes down to whether someone wants to turn over 100% of £20k or 80% of £40k. The initial outlay can be recouped eventually.
Allthough it's not for me, I can see the attraction for a newbie.
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40-50k each white plates a family member sold 1 a few years back due to rumours that the law would change within 10 years,the councils were going to do away with white plates and make it a free for all but it's yet to happen. Either way you look at it how long is someone going to keep work that has never cleaned a window before these days,the pole is not a magic wand you still need to know if you've cleaned it properly even from the ground and that takes time to grasp. They would need to guarantee you work because a hell of a lot of newly canvassed work gets cancelled within the first couple of cleans,a window cleaning business can't be judged on the amount of work you have that's ridiculous it's the quality of it and quality work takes time-years to build. There is no way anyone could guarantee good quality work they could say we will keep finding you work yeah but some of it or a lot of it would be average jobs or stuff no one that's been about a while wants to do awkward no access jobs. When your not cleaning t he work and it's essential you keep getting work you'll take on more or less anything it's a numbers game why do you care you've told the bloke you'll get him work so here's 2 flats in a block of 20 or 1 bungalow in a close of 20. Scratch the surface and look into it a bit more and you see the bigger picture,people who've never cleaned Windows before wouldn't have a clue of the pitfalls in this job that's without the inclement weather and people not wanting to see you in the rain especially new customers.
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Walter you say you had a lot of messers in those days but there are still people who mess WCs about today as you will know,how many people desperately want a WC and after a couple of cleans change there mind a hell of a lot on newly canvased work there Windows are filthy but when they've been cleaned a couple of times don't want the expense anymore 6-8 weeks soon comes round. Even more of a problem when there being cleaned badly they would be even more reluctant to pay for a service then,I'm not saying there's not people out there willing to go down this route there obviously is but that's not to say it's the best way to get into it. Someone with no window cleaning experience would take ages to get to speed and quality of of cleaning before they started to get anywhere near the figures quoted on here,I reckon most of them started say part time and then went down this way of working for someone doing it with no experience would be scratching there head thinking I can't see me making a living at this.
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Yes, of course there are plenty of messers around. The difference these days is that my workload is higher so it's easier to drop them much sooner. On a franchise, with work coming in regularly, I imagine it would also be easier to drop them. The only gremlin with this is that it might be necessary to discuss it with the franchisor when wanting to drop a particular customer. In the mid to long term, it is in both parties' interest to offload bad customers or customers where the access is very poor (e.g. the 'only clean them if I'm in brigade'). This does leave me wondering if royalties are paid on bad debts. Also, whether they are paid on amount of work done or on payments received.
I can see the attraction for a newbie who has start-up funds but not the knowledge. I think back to my mistakes in the early years and some of them were cringeworthy - and they cost me money though the exact amount is hard to quantify.
Hey! I'm not particularly pro- or anti- franchising. It just woudn't be for me as I have a reasonable sized one man business already.
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I am assuming all the franchises work is priced 20% higher than normal.
So if you clean a house and get £10 for it. You would naturally want £12 for that house. Giving cleaner £10 and royalties of 2£?
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Dropping customers: the way we work (as ever, I speak only for myself) is that if the franchisee wants to drop a customer we will always support them.
I don't like rude / unhelpful / slow paying / always out / never leaving the gate unlocked* customers. Why should the franchisees be any different?
Vin
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Thing is as well. If you have franchises local ish. If a big job come in which was once in a life time earning opportunity and you needed 4/5 vans. Then it could maybe happen.
Like if you get an email about 40,000 solar panels to be cleaned ;D
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve?? ::)roll
Walter Mitty springs to mind. ;D
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Either way you look at it how long is someone going to keep work that has never cleaned a window before these days,the pole is not a magic wand you still need to know if you've cleaned it properly even from the ground and that takes time to grasp.
Seriously? I taught my son to clean windows well when he was nine and my daughter when she was twelve.
Your argument works just as well against the unemployables* you use as it does against franchisees. How do you get your people over the huge hurdle of How To Get A Window Clean?
In passing, one thing to take into account is that the franchisees are responsible for their work, so perhaps they are interested enough to learn quickly and take interest in getting the job done correctly. They seem pretty good at the mammoth task of getting both the glass and the frames clean in a manner that customers find acceptable.
Vin
* I use this word as you seem to refer to them time and time again in terms that suggest they are pretty much unemployable
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve?? ::)roll
Walter Mitty springs to mind. ;D
True though eh. ;)
British disease,,,,, blah blah blah my backside!! He (and you) shoot that man down at every opportunity for doing exactly what he is defending someone else for. ;D
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve?? ::)roll
Walter Mitty springs to mind. ;D
True though eh. ;)
British disease,,,,, blah blah blah my backside!! You shoot that man down at every opportunity for doing exactly what you are defending someone else for. ;D
I assume you deliberately misunderstood.
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Thanks ... always like a lively debate.
and a shout out to Vin for help and advice he has given to me over phone / email when ive asked him random questions.
Vin may come across on the forum as not suffering fools lightly buy he is a very knowledgeable and helpful. :) .. in fact he once called me a posh name for fossilised dinosaur poo (cant recall proper word only know what it was cos I googled it) and I think he likes me so the rest of u are fooked ;D ;D
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I am assuming all the franchises work is priced 20% higher than normal.
So if you clean a house and get £10 for it. You would naturally want £12 for that house. Giving cleaner £10 and royalties of 2£?
That's not really how we approach it. We just price a house and the franchisee keeps 80% of the money for the clean. Our average house is well over £20, by the way.
Vin
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So to start all I need is to be able to demand prices that for some reason others in the area cant get.
I then need to find somebody to hand over £8k plus buy a van and equipment with my logo and advertising details.
I then need to get them to sign a contract saying that all credit for their work no matter how good will go to me as will any
recommendations and extra work that comes from it.
Last of all they need to give me 20% of their takings yearly for this privilege.
Cant see this failing especially as window cleaning is such a fulfilling job that most would give their right arm just to be a part off.
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So to start all I need is to be able to demand prices that for some reason others in the area can get.
I then need to find somebody to hand over £8k plus buy a van and equipment with my logo and advertising details.
I then need to get them to sign a contract saying that all credit for their work no matter how good will go to me as will any
recommendations and extra work that comes from it.
Last of all they need to give me 20% of their takings yearly for this privilege.
Cant see this failing especially as window cleaning is such a fulfilling job that most would give their right arm just to be a part off.
I think you've nailed it.
Vin
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So to start all I need is to be able to demand prices that for some reason others in the area can get.
I then need to find somebody to hand over £8k plus buy a van and equipment with my logo and advertising details.
I then need to get them to sign a contract saying that all credit for their work no matter how good will go to me as will any
recommendations and extra work that comes from it.
Last of all they need to give me 20% of their takings yearly for this privilege.
Cant see this failing especially as window cleaning is such a fulfilling job that most would give their right arm just to be a part off.
I would close the deal with a years worth supply of vision .... bound to work
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So to start all I need is to be able to demand prices that for some reason others in the area can get.
I then need to find somebody to hand over £8k plus buy a van and equipment with my logo and advertising details.
I then need to get them to sign a contract saying that all credit for their work no matter how good will go to me as will any
recommendations and extra work that comes from it.
Last of all they need to give me 20% of their takings yearly for this privilege.
Cant see this failing especially as window cleaning is such a fulfilling job that most would give their right arm just to be a part off.
I would close the deal with a years worth supply of vision .... bound to work
Well I suppose I would be targeting a similar type of customer. ;D
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SeanK and Chumbucket should get a room.
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Ian, coprolite.
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Walter you say you had a lot of messers in those days but there are still people who mess WCs about today as you will know,how many people desperately want a WC and after a couple of cleans change there mind a hell of a lot on newly canvased work there Windows are filthy but when they've been cleaned a couple of times don't want the expense anymore 6-8 weeks soon comes round. Even more of a problem when there being cleaned badly they would be even more reluctant to pay for a service then,I'm not saying there's not people out there willing to go down this route there obviously is but that's not to say it's the best way to get into it. Someone with no window cleaning experience would take ages to get to speed and quality of of cleaning before they started to get anywhere near the figures quoted on here,I reckon most of them started say part time and then went down this way of working for someone doing it with no experience would be scratching there head thinking I can't see me making a living at this.
This is why a franchise is attractive to some - get trained, get all the work you want with back up should you get any problems.
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Ian, coprolite.
;) yeah that's the one
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You say they have the freedom to work when they want yes they do so if they decieded they only wanted to do 15 days a month no wonder there's a few interviews to see if there suitable. To argue the pros and cons is not negative or envious of anyone it's simply looking at it for what it is not suitable for someone looking to work for thereselves because there not,why wouldn't they by a car for 8-10 grand get there local licence and drive a Taxi then they can work when they like sit in the warm and end up with the same in there pocket. Lets not forget these people can't or have never cleaned Windows before do you honestly think they are going to go out and clean enough work at a good enough standard week in week out,I can't see it happening and working on planet earth it sounds lovely though doesn't it just get the work and take a cut for doing nout.
Our franchises are based around doing three days a week so I'd never insist that anyone work as much as fifteen days a month. That would be cruel.
Vin
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...They would need to guarantee you work because a hell of a lot of newly canvassed work gets cancelled within the first couple of cleans,a window cleaning business can't be judged on the amount of work you have that's ridiculous it's the quality of it and quality work takes time-years to build. There is no way anyone could guarantee good quality work they could say we will keep finding you work yeah but some of it or a lot of it would be average jobs or stuff no one that's been about a while wants to do awkward no access jobs...
Given that we support the franchisee if they want to drop a job (e.g. no access) and that a dropped customer is replaced, you're actually highlighting some of the benefits of being a franchisee.
Customer drops you after a clean? Franchisor replaces
Customer is a three clean wonder? Franchisor replaces
Customer is a non-payer? Franchisor replaces
Customer never opens gate and you drop them? Franchisor replaces
Customer is rude and you want to drop them? Franchisor replaces
Customer moves house? Franchisor replaces
Vin
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chummy, - interesting post, I'd be interested you putting up an example of me putting down solar Steves efforts...
Darran
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chummy, - interesting post, I'd be interested you putting up an example of me putting down solar Steves efforts...
Darran
I don't care enough, neither do I need to, your efforts to belittle him and his business idea/model are plentiful. Most solar panel threads are riddled with you and your "keyboard buddies" snipes. ;)
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Wouldn't that be odd, someone who always snipes at a particular poster no matter what they say?
Vin
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chummy, - interesting post, I'd be interested you putting up an example of me putting down solar Steves efforts...
Darran
I don't care enough, neither do I need to, your efforts to belittle him and his business idea/model are plentiful. Most solar panel threads are riddled with you and your "keyboard buddies" snipes. ;)
I take that as a no then 👍
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Wouldn't that be odd, someone who always snipes at a particular poster no matter what they say?
Vin
I'm not a hypocrite, I've said before I do think you're a k n o b! ;)
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Wouldn't that be odd, someone who always snipes at a particular poster no matter what they say?
Vin
I'm not a hypocrite, I've said before I do think you're a k n o b! ;)
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me.
I tend to discuss what people say rather than what I think they are but that's just me.
Vin
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve?? ::)roll
Walter Mitty springs to mind. ;D
Some of my customers first started getting a bit funny about it when I turned up in a gold plated Rolls Royce to clean their windows. No pleasing some people :)
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The thing is it obviously works for these guys but its a business model that wouldn't get off the ground in most areas,
for a start most of us would find it hard enough building a round again for ourselves never mind having to build one for 4 or
5 franchisees and with the cream of the crop money wise.
Why is it always the areas where there's a fortune to be made in window cleaning that never seem to have enough window cleaners in my area 80% of the people who want and can afford a window cleaner have one and there are plenty of newbies fighting for that other 20%, you cant even win work with quality anymore as changing times mean that everybody has upped their game.
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Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...
I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.
It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.
Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment
Darran
Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve?? ::)roll
Walter Mitty springs to mind. ;D
Some of my customers first started getting a bit funny about it when I turned up in a gold plated Rolls Royce to clean their windows. No pleasing some people :)
When you read what some on here are paying in expenses that doesn't sound far out, do what I do put a sticker/wrap of somebody in rags with a begging bowl on each side it throws them of the scent and hides the shine of the gold, mines solid
gold by the way. ;D
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The thing is it obviously works for these guys but its a business model that wouldn't get off the ground in most areas,
for a start most of us would find it hard enough building a round again for ourselves never mind having to build one for 4 or
5 franchisees and with the cream of the crop money wise.
Why is it always the areas where there's a fortune to be made in window cleaning that never seem to have enough window cleaners in my area 80% of the people who want and can afford a window cleaner have one and there are plenty of newbies fighting for that other 20%, you cant even win work with quality anymore as changing times mean that everybody has upped their game.
Sean, I don't think it's coincidence. If there's a shortage of cleaners, prices can be much higher. I also suspect that (in general) the further south you go the fewer people want to do a job that has all the perceived social status of a dung beetle, as they have other options. That means a shortage of cleaners. (I should point out that I'm from Sheffield so it's not an anti-North thing; I know life's tougher.) That said, there are still people around here charging £3.50 a clean.
Some of the prices quoted on here scare me, frankly. Some of the Scottish guys are fighting in a world where customers expect to pay slave wages to their cleaners. It must be heartbreaking to want to price high and give good quality when a "high" price is six or seven quid.
Vin
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In answer to the quality issue with new franchisees, I buddy mine up for 2 months, covering the new franchisees round and mine for that period of time.
This allows most customers who tend to be home the opportunity to meet the franchisee, so I can introduce them and explain the handover (I will have covered the work previously so no new cleans). Most of our work is monthly or 2 monthly.
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Isthis how it works??
I build up 400 x £10 over a 4 month period whist working the round untill the 400 customer target is hit, i then advertise for a franchisee to join at 8k for which with the 8k ill need to buy a van and system for them too use so no change there which is fair enough? Or maybe they have there own van? They would supply the van
Franchisee then works and out of the 4k he cleans a month i get 1k in royalties. £800 (20%)
In a year i could have 3 franchisee's working cleaning 12k in total and ill recieve 3k a month in royalties for doing nothing at all.
Not exactly nothing at all, you'd need to ensure they have your full support, maintaining work levels, branding & marketing on their behalf, providing solutions to customer issues, motivation when required, repairing broken kit etc, etc. The level of support is entirely up to you but the value provided should result in a great working relationship.
In 4 years i could have 12 franchisee's cleaning 48k a month with £12k royalties to me a month.
in 10 years i could have 30 franchisee's cleaning 120k a month with 30k in royalties to me a month.
If this is the basics then what a fantastic way to make a living.
Is there any window cleaning franchise companies making that sort of profit out there?? Not that I'm aware of but I'm sure there's a few on the way
If so and its that easy then what a brilliant way to build and run a business. It can be a very good business model for all concerned but it's not entirely easy and not without issues
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Lol lots of bum kissing going on with the is thread,I would love to see the quality of the work done by a complete newbie that knows not of any pitfalls when cleaning with a pole I used to think it was scrub and run until I did some inside and out jobs years ago. Your not a proper windy until you've mastered the blade before even thinking of getting the pole out people want insides doing on a lot of work I do,you say you replace work this seems to get mentioned quiet a lot the fact that you replace work,why I very rarely lose work unless it's someone moving house and even then more often than not the new owners take you there's normally a list left of all people that do work on the house. If you were to give the franchisee a grands worth of work to do a week it's unrealistic to think they'd get through it and clean it to a top standard even half desent if they've never cleaned Windows,I know it's not rocket science but even learning to know where your going on a round so that your fully up to speed takes time,months in some cases years if your right out in the sticks when even satnav won't help you. I would go as far as to say that sending a complete beginner to a paying customers house is a p take TBH.
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Can someone answer with something sensible instead of saying oh hear comes another snipe at em,he's jealous just wishes he was in the same position which couldn't be further from the truth. I can see the big picture with this in our business,Im pointing out the pitfalls of it yeah you might make money from it but joe bloggs that's never even done this job before saying he's going to be making what's being quoted is complete poope.
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Lol lots of bum kissing going on with the is thread,I would love to see the quality of the work done by a complete newbie that knows not of any pitfalls when cleaning with a pole I used to think it was scrub and run until I did some inside and out jobs years ago. Your not a proper windy until you've mastered the blade before even thinking of getting the pole out people want insides doing on a lot of work I do,you say you replace work this seems to get mentioned quiet a lot the fact that you replace work,why I very rarely lose work unless it's someone moving house and even then more often than not the new owners take you there's normally a list left of all people that do work on the house. If you were to give the franchisee a grands worth of work to do a week it's unrealistic to think they'd get through it and clean it to a top standard even half desent if they've never cleaned Windows,I know it's not rocket science but even learning to know where your going on a round so that your fully up to speed takes time,months in some cases years if your right out in the sticks when even satnav won't help you. I would go as far as to say that sending a complete beginner to a paying customers house is a p take TBH.
TBH you talk more nonsense than almost anyone on this forum. Actually, no, not almost anyone. ANYONE.
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Lol really got yourself that modular pole yet have you.
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Lol lots of bum kissing going on with the is thread,I would love to see the quality of the work done by a complete newbie that knows not of any pitfalls when cleaning with a pole I used to think it was scrub and run until I did some inside and out jobs years ago. Your not a proper windy until you've mastered the blade before even thinking of getting the pole out people want insides doing on a lot of work I do,you say you replace work this seems to get mentioned quiet a lot the fact that you replace work,why I very rarely lose work unless it's someone moving house and even then more often than not the new owners take you there's normally a list left of all people that do work on the house. If you were to give the franchisee a grands worth of work to do a week it's unrealistic to think they'd get through it and clean it to a top standard even half desent if they've never cleaned Windows,I know it's not rocket science but even learning to know where your going on a round so that your fully up to speed takes time,months in some cases years if your right out in the sticks when even satnav won't help you. I would go as far as to say that sending a complete beginner to a paying customers house is a p take TBH.
Jesus, you're talking some crap. Are you purposely being obtuse? You hate the franchise model, that is obvious but at least they are going out there with training under their belt on houses that have been cleaned previously. You want a newbie to just get started with a canvasser and to get cleaning on first cleans. How's that better? Who says they have to clean 1k in the first week. What about starting with £400 week one, £450 week 2 and so on until they are up to speed? Years to learn the round, that's part of the interview process. You get to weed out the absolute morons (which you'd have to be if you couldn't find your way around a round after a few weeks.
Your not a proper windy until you've mastered the blade Who cares what your definition of a windy is, it's irrelevant.
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Yeah it's completely wrong to think that to send an absolute newbie out to work on his own is stupid,when I decide I don't want particular jobs anymore I'll take that advise.
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Interview lol Jesus,I can't read m8'but I'm a hell of a worker ask my probation officer 😂😂😂😂😂
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Yeah it's completely wrong to think that to send an absolute newbie out to work on his own is stupid,when I decide I don't want particular jobs anymore I'll take that advise.
So in your world how does that guy who had work canvassed up get started?
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What he does is what you do in any job you go out with someone competent and learn it,you do it day in day out until someone like me says your ready to start doing some work on your own. Someone comes along with a few grand and says I want to start window cleaning and someone with so called knowledge says there you go John off you go good luck,don't worry I'll keep getting your more houses to lose its laughable I would be waiting for the phone to ring if I'd sent him out.
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The thing is it obviously works for these guys but its a business model that wouldn't get off the ground in most areas,
for a start most of us would find it hard enough building a round again for ourselves never mind having to build one for 4 or
5 franchisees and with the cream of the crop money wise.
Why is it always the areas where there's a fortune to be made in window cleaning that never seem to have enough window cleaners in my area 80% of the people who want and can afford a window cleaner have one and there are plenty of newbies fighting for that other 20%, you cant even win work with quality anymore as changing times mean that everybody has upped their game.
Sean, I don't think it's coincidence. If there's a shortage of cleaners, prices can be much higher. I also suspect that (in general) the further south you go the fewer people want to do a job that has all the perceived social status of a dung beetle, as they have other options. That means a shortage of cleaners. (I should point out that I'm from Sheffield so it's not an anti-North thing; I know life's tougher.) That said, there are still people around here charging £3.50 a clean.
Some of the prices quoted on here scare me, frankly. Some of the Scottish guys are fighting in a world where customers expect to pay slave wages to their cleaners. It must be heartbreaking to want to price high and give good quality when a "high" price is six or seven quid.
Vin
I'm in Scotland, I don't have to price ' high' to earn a very good hourly rate, but then I don't have to over clean a property either to justify a high price.
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What he does is what you do in any job you go out with someone competent and learn it,you do it day in day out until someone like me says your ready to start doing some work on your own.
LOL
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Yeah but you probably know what your doing and have been doing it a while
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What he does is what you do in any job you go out with someone competent and learn it,you do it day in day out until someone like me says your ready to start doing some work on your own.
LOL
You like that did you lol uck me I'm the daddy arnt I 👅👅👅👅
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Mine stay with me for 2 months working side by side. I don't even let them touch the glass on day one. Just tell them to watch how it's done.
I think 2 months is plenty of time to train a competent window cleaner. If they can't grasp the basic process of how to get a spotless window using wfp in that time, it's obviously not for them.
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I'm in Scotland, I don't have to price ' high' to earn a very good hourly rate, but then I don't have to over clean a property either to justify a high price.
That's a fair point. I sometimes have to dawdle to avoid embarrassment!
Vin
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...even learning to know where your going on a round so that your fully up to speed takes time,months in some cases years if your right out in the sticks when even satnav won't help you.
You might want to recruit people with IQs in double figures. Someone who takes "years" to know where they are going on a regular window cleaning round needs a one-way ticket to Dignitas.
Where do I get one of these "only work in town" satnavs? Are they cheaper than the ones that do everywhere? More seriously:
What he does is what you do in any job you go out with someone competent and learn it,you do it day in day out until someone like me says your ready to start doing some work on your own. Someone comes along with a few grand and says I want to start window cleaning and someone with so called knowledge says there you go John off you go good luck,don't worry I'll keep getting your more houses to lose its laughable I would be waiting for the phone to ring if I'd sent him out.
Serious question, do you really think that's what we do? Sending someone out to do £1,000 a week from kick off with no training or hand-holding at all? Give it a moment's thought and you'll realise that unless we're seriously stupid there is no way we'd do that. So, quite clearly we don't do that.
By all means disagree but building an argument on something that no-one in their right minds would be doing is pointless and not worthy of further response. Make sensible points about the way we actually do run the business and I'll engage.
Vin
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So you give them say a grand of work to do and they give you £200 for it is that really worth the trouble,why not employ someone pay them 500 and get 500 for doing none of the work yourself does that make more sense,for every £1000 worth of work you get them you get 200 are you honestly saying that work is looked at and cherry picked or is it just a numbers game for you surely it is a numbers game. I would be looking to get as much work in as I could any old work as long as it amounted to a sum that I was looking to get my commission on,4 thousand pounds worth of work for 800 commission phew if that is all quality work I would be very surprised good luck to you.
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I don't think franchising is for you NWH. Or employing. Or typing for that matter.
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I don't think franchising is for you NWH. Or employing. Or typing for that matter.
What makes you think that? ;D
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So you give them say a grand of work to do and they give you £200 for it is that really worth the trouble,why not employ someone pay them 500 and get 500 for doing none of the work yourself does that make more sense,for every £1000 worth of work you get them you get 200 are you honestly saying that work is looked at and cherry picked or is it just a numbers game for you surely it is a numbers game. I would be looking to get as much work in as I could any old work as long as it amounted to a sum that I was looking to get my commission on,4 thousand pounds worth of work for 800 commission phew if that is all quality work I would be very surprised good luck to you.
I may be missing something but if I were to employ, why would that affect the quality of work? I'd get them in exactly the same way as I do now so I'm struggling to see why the customers would be better if I employed rather than franchised.
Ref the first question, why not employ and get 50%, I rather think you've answered that yourself when you have discussed at great length the problems you have with employees. If you're offering people 80% of what they turn over, you're going to be able to choose more motivated people who can cope with a satnav.
Vin
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We will see you in Vegas soon giving business seminars yeah lol.
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I don't think franchising is for you NWH. Or employing. Or typing for that matter.
brilliant lol I think your right
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We will see you in Vegas soon giving business seminars yeah lol.
Possibly you'll get there first.
I must say that conversation with you is otiose*.
Vin
* look it up, I had to.
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How dare you I have a Ford Focus a 15 year old van 2 holidays a year at a couple of Haven camps and a fat wife so I'm doing really well thanks lol,I'm really glad we had this discussion on franchising it's really opened my eyes to how I could be earning more money from this game. I'm off out canvassing now for 10 grands worth of work after TAX I'll be earning less than I was on the tools but he ho that's business,up here for thinking down there for dancing and all that lol. 🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾
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If that first bit was true I'd take you up on that dignitas offer lol.
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Otiose a window cleaner using this word is someone who once thought they would make something of there life but ended up cleaning windows yeah,i must admit though when using words like this it does give the impression your cleverer than you are.
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I don't think franchising is for you NWH. Or employing. Or typing for that matter.
Love it :)
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Walter kicks off his shoes, puts his feet up and opens another bag of popcorn.
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Otiose a window cleaner using this word is someone who once thought they would make something of there life but ended up cleaning windows yeah,i must admit though when using words like this it does give the impression your cleverer than you are.
Probably the most accurate statement of the whole thread!! ;D ;D
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Brilliant, I love this thread!
Nigel, could you make a sandwich?
Are you capable of making a cup of coffee?
Could you sprinkle a lawn with fertilizer?
How much training would you need to mow the lawn?
Could you possibly fry a burger?
I bet you couldn't clean the oven?
Can you flick a duster about?
Deep fry a chicken leg?
All successful franchises almost as hard as cleaning windows. ::)roll
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I have thoroughly enjoyed every post on this thread, including my own ;D
Regardless of all the misinformed, self opinionated outpourings decrying franchising and purporting to prove why it can never work or be successful can I just add a simple comment from the point of view of someone who actually has experience (a) as a franchisee and (b) as a franchisor? (For three years in the late 90's I was a franchisee of a company called FiltaFry who serviced deep fryers in catering establishments)
Franchising works
That is a fact. Denying it is akin to telling the Wright Brothers "It'll never get off the ground"
Mick Kent may have been talking tongue in cheek when he said: in 10 years i could have 30 franchisee's cleaning 120k a month with 30k in royalties to me a month. It is perfectly possible. The only reason I haven't progressed nearer this goal is that I started this when I was 62 with the intention of retiring when I reached 65.
I appointed franchisee no. 1 in September 2006, over the following three years I appointed a new franchisee every six months so that when I reached retirement in late 2009 I had 6 franchisees and an income of £50,000 plus per year in royalties and my State and private pension.
I did it all myself with the help of my wife. I canvassed the work, trained the franchisees, did everything necessary to ensure I had a solid successful business.
If I had continued then in 9 years I would have had 18 franchisees and an income of £150,000 per year. Had I started this when I was a young man I would quite literally be a millionaire.
My wife then had the idea that I should condense all my experience into a business package and market it. This also was successful - I have sold 25+ of my packages at £1,500 each. Several of my customers have commented on this thread, including probably the most high profile one: Vin Kennedy.
I owe a debt of gratitude to NWH whose increasingly desperate attempts to convince you all that franchising is a waste of time have had the opposite effect: I have had four new enquiries about my system from people who could see that if he is so illogically intent on 'proving' how useless it is, there must actually be something in it.
Keep up the good work ;D
For anyone who would like to hear the opinions of someone who actually has experience of franchising, and has succeeded in it, rather than the endless negative content of some of the posts on this thread, just click on the link at the bottom of my posts: www.jolisian...........
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No such thing as bad press :)
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I have thoroughly enjoyed every post on this thread, including my own ;D
Regardless of all the misinformed, self opinionated outpourings decrying franchising and purporting to prove why it can never work or be successful can I just add a simple comment from the point of view of someone who actually has experience (a) as a franchisee and (b) as a franchisor? (For three years in the late 90's I was a franchisee of a company called FiltaFry who serviced deep fryers in catering establishments)
Franchising works
That is a fact. Denying it is akin to telling the Wright Brothers "It'll never get off the ground"
Mick Kent may have been talking tongue in cheek when he said: in 10 years i could have 30 franchisee's cleaning 120k a month with 30k in royalties to me a month. It is perfectly possible. The only reason I haven't progressed nearer this goal is that I started this when I was 62 with the intention of retiring when I reached 65.
I appointed franchisee no. 1 in September 2006, over the following three years I appointed a new franchisee every six months so that when I reached retirement in late 2009 I had 6 franchisees and an income of £50,000 plus per year in royalties and my State and private pension.
I did it all myself with the help of my wife. I canvassed the work, trained the franchisees, did everything necessary to ensure I had a solid successful business.
If I had continued then in 9 years I would have had 18 franchisees and an income of £150,000 per year. Had I started this when I was a young man I would quite literally be a millionaire.
My wife then had the idea that I should condense all my experience into a business package and market it. This also was successful - I have sold 25+ of my packages at £1,500 each. Several of my customers have commented on this thread, including probably the most high profile one: Vin Kennedy.
I owe a debt of gratitude to NWH whose increasingly desperate attempts to convince you all that franchising is a waste of time have had the opposite effect: I have had four new enquiries about my system from people who could see that if he is so illogically intent on 'proving' how useless it is, there must actually be something in it.
Keep up the good work ;D
For anyone who would like to hear the opinions of someone who actually has experience of franchising, and has succeeded in it, rather than the endless negative content of some of the posts on this thread, just click on the link at the bottom of my posts: www.jolisian...........
Duplication, it just makes so much sense, and shag the begrudgers.
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Begrudges oh dear lol
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Begrudges oh dear lol
Say it out loud to yourself, Ian i don't begrudge all the success you've built up over the years and i wish i could've done it myself, but fair play to you after all the obstacles you had to breakthrough you deserve it
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Lol I think I've just ped my pants,one born every minute.
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Lol I think I've just ped my pants,one born every minute.
No your just not saying it loud enough to yourself keep trying and it will eventually get through to you.
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I have thoroughly enjoyed every post on this thread, including my own ;D
Regardless of all the misinformed, self opinionated outpourings decrying franchising and purporting to prove why it can never work or be successful can I just add a simple comment from the point of view of someone who actually has experience (a) as a franchisee and (b) as a franchisor? (For three years in the late 90's I was a franchisee of a company called FiltaFry who serviced deep fryers in catering establishments)
Franchising works
That is a fact. Denying it is akin to telling the Wright Brothers "It'll never get off the ground"
Mick Kent may have been talking tongue in cheek when he said: in 10 years i could have 30 franchisee's cleaning 120k a month with 30k in royalties to me a month. It is perfectly possible. The only reason I haven't progressed nearer this goal is that I started this when I was 62 with the intention of retiring when I reached 65.
I appointed franchisee no. 1 in September 2006, over the following three years I appointed a new franchisee every six months so that when I reached retirement in late 2009 I had 6 franchisees and an income of £50,000 plus per year in royalties and my State and private pension.
I did it all myself with the help of my wife. I canvassed the work, trained the franchisees, did everything necessary to ensure I had a solid successful business.
If I had continued then in 9 years I would have had 18 franchisees and an income of £150,000 per year. Had I started this when I was a young man I would quite literally be a millionaire.
My wife then had the idea that I should condense all my experience into a business package and market it. This also was successful - I have sold 25+ of my packages at £1,500 each. Several of my customers have commented on this thread, including probably the most high profile one: Vin Kennedy.
I owe a debt of gratitude to NWH whose increasingly desperate attempts to convince you all that franchising is a waste of time have had the opposite effect: I have had four new enquiries about my system from people who could see that if he is so illogically intent on 'proving' how useless it is, there must actually be something in it.
Keep up the good work ;D
For anyone who would like to hear the opinions of someone who actually has experience of franchising, and has succeeded in it, rather than the endless negative content of some of the posts on this thread, just click on the link at the bottom of my posts: www.jolisian...........
Nicely written Ian. The bit that appeals to me most of all is the part that you haven't written. You have the personality for this sort of thing. None of the Billy Bignuts stuff, but just quietly getting on with it with dedication and an appropriate level of humility. And in case anyone's wondering, yes we have met a couple of times. I may not be a natural businessman but I can usually figure people out when I meet them.
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I'm a begrudger - who wouldn't be?
Ian earns a cracking wage without needing to get off of the sofa!
Brilliant, fair play to you Ian.
......... and if you can get it to work then the package is very good value too for anyone going down the same route.
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The thing in the end that put me off is that you need a massive amount of customers to be able to stop being "on the tools". Not that I want to stop totally, but it seems too far in the distance. It struck me as a better plan to initially employ and then franchise bits off as it seems appropriate.
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The thing in the end that put me off is that you need a massive amount of customers to be able to stop being "on the tools". Not that I want to stop totally, but it seems too far in the distance. It struck me as a better plan to initially employ and then franchise bits off as it seems appropriate.
I've not thought this through particularly, so apologies if I'm way off here.
Could the way you've described above lead to a conflict of interest - like being in competition with your franchisee(s)? I suppose it could be overcome with goodwill on both sides and/or by starting the franchisees in areas that your own business doesn't normally cover. Maybe I'm talking rubbish (nothing new there then!) but those are my first thoughts.
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I'm a begrudger - who wouldn't be?
Ian earns a cracking wage without needing to get off of the sofa!
Brilliant, fair play to you Ian.
......... and if you can get it to work then the package is very good value too for anyone going down the same route.
+1 When you first look at it seems completely stacked in the franchisers favour but dig a little deeper and it definitely has
its plus points, a ready built well paying round where any messers will be dealt with and replaced instantly, ok it might not be
suitable for anybody looking to build an empire but if your looking for a stress free as possible round then why not.
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The thing in the end that put me off is that you need a massive amount of customers to be able to stop being "on the tools". Not that I want to stop totally, but it seems too far in the distance. It struck me as a better plan to initially employ and then franchise bits off as it seems appropriate.
I've not thought this through particularly, so apologies if I'm way off here.
Could the way you've described above lead to a conflict of interest - like being in competition with your franchisee(s)? I suppose it could be overcome with goodwill on both sides and/or by starting the franchisees in areas that your own business doesn't normally cover. Maybe I'm talking rubbish (nothing new there then!) but those are my first thoughts.
Yes, there will be conflicts of interests for most franchisors, if only because most people will still be cleaning when they kick off franchising. So, if a new job comes in to us and I know it's a nice Bovis home in an easy to park street, do I give it to a franchisee and get 20% or do it myself and keep 100%?
My rule is that I'll take it if it's a house I can clean without a move from one of my existing customers.
There has to be total trust between franchisor and franchisee. It's why I have this above my desk so I see it several times every day:
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/Onionman9999/IMG_9215_zpsiibt82sy.jpg) (http://s1359.photobucket.com/user/Onionman9999/media/IMG_9215_zpsiibt82sy.jpg.html)
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This all depends on areas and type of work you lot do,you could get your 800 a month if 1 of your blokes does his for example 4 grand. What about if you can go out and do a few jobs and earn the same,quiet a bit of hassle if earning 800 is easy for you to do. It's ok saying I'll replace a 10-20 quid house but what about if get a call saying sorry I no longer want your service anymore I'm not having him do my Windows he's clueless there's a 200+ job down the toilet
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This all depends on areas and type of work you lot do,you could get your 800 a month if 1 of your blokes does his for example 4 grand. What about if you can go out and do a few jobs and earn the same,quiet a bit of hassle if earning 800 is easy for you to do. It's ok saying I'll replace a 10-20 quid house but what about if get a call saying sorry I no longer want your service anymore I'm not having him do my Windows he's clueless there's a 200+ job down the toilet
You have to keep your eyes on what's going on. Every cleaner (I don't care who they are) gets the odd complaint. If I was regularly dealing with problems it would point to a lack of training or a change in attitude. Either one needs to be addressed immediately. Franchising isn't a way of making money for doing absolutely nothing (what is?).
If push comes to shove, the franchise agreement has clauses that allow the franchisor to part company with the franchisee if performance drops too low (measurable numbers, losing X customers in Y weeks). However, I want the franchise agreements to gather dust in a drawer; I consider that I'd be failing in my duties if I ever needed to get it out and use it.
Your comment about going out and doing £800 of work rather than having a franchisee doing £4,000 works as long as you're not full. The only ways to get past that point are to employ (your choice) or franchise (my choice).
Vin
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It's more viable for some to employ get them to know your customers so eventually they can service your work for a wage,if you have the right work 1 person out working on there own could bring you the same revenue as 4-5 franchisees in turnover-profit after you've paid them. Now some knockers will say this is not achievable or impossible but again this all depends on your work,to go off the tools in some cases may only take as little as a year if the right person is working for you and the work you have is very good paying.
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Nigel, you don't seriously consider cleaning windows to be a difficult, skilled job surely?
Have you ever had a 'proper' job in the past or have you always been unskilled?
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No I used to be a field service engineer for 5 years servicing IBM Compact and NEC computers in inner London working from a base in reading,I see what your saying Vin about being full you need to think of something to spread your wings but I'm saying for some of us employing is easier as the amount you get for individual jobs is far far higher than that of other cleaners. You can see from my point of view if I'm doing a single job on its own and I'm getting it done with less energy used and quicker than another cleaner doing 5 houses losing that kind of work worries me,to send out someone I know will lose it for me in a heartbeat concerns me at the end of the day if hey have in there head no matter he will get me another job,more to this franchising than we think.
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It's more viable for some to employ get them to know your customers so eventually they can service your work for a wage,if you have the right work 1 person out working on there own could bring you the same revenue as 4-5 franchisees in turnover-profit after you've paid them. Now some knockers will say this is not achievable or impossible but again this all depends on your work,to go off the tools in some cases may only take as little as a year if the right person is working for you and the work you have is very good paying.
I don't think anyone on here is saying that employing doesn't work. However, I must point out that your earlier posts on this thread were about the failures you've had as employees, people who you took home on their first day (IIRC) and people who take years to find their way around the round. For that hassle you get a greater share of the money.
The kind of person who wants the halfway house of being a franchisee are, in general, going to be of a higher calibre, more motivated and be more capable of doing the job well. For the lack of hassle you get a smaller share of the money.
Vin
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It would take ages to learn my work some areas I go to are back and beyond some times you have to get to them from another town village ie another way in to that particular work,some occasions certain jobs are not done that month so it means going via another route,someone not knowing my area would struggle and they certainly wouldn't learn it in a few months enough to be up to speed.
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A franchisee will always be more motivated than an employee - he's got more to lose.
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Who has the highest number of franchisees?
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How many do you need you mean to make it viable,I reckon you would need at least 10-15 to be totally dedicated to getting work and be off the tools and build from there but like pyramid selling.
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How many do you need you mean to make it viable,I reckon you would need at least 10-15 to be totally dedicated to getting work and be off the tools and build from there but like pyramid selling.
5 would be earning you as much as you could earn on the glass yourself, so I'd say that's perfectly viable.
My target by retirement (13 years away) is 44 franchisees.
Vin
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A franchisee will always be more motivated than an employee - he's got more to lose.
I'd prefer to say that he has more to gain.
Vin
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How many do you need you mean to make it viable,I reckon you would need at least 10-15 to be totally dedicated to getting work and be off the tools and build from there but like pyramid selling.
I don't think you could achieve 10-15 although I would imagine 5 would be good enough for most.
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I owe a debt of gratitude to NWH whose increasingly desperate attempts to convince you all that franchising is a waste of time have had the opposite effect: I have had four new enquiries about my system from people who could see that if he is so illogically intent on 'proving' how useless it is, there must actually be something in it.
Keep up the good work ;D
Just started Outlook to check the mail before I go out and there's an enquiry in there from a potential franchisee. Thanks, NWT!
Vin
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Admin get to grips with the free advertising on here ;D
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In the franchising route you will always get a better candidate,
They most likely had a decent occupation in the past, have a family to provide for and the cash to invest, either savings or redundancy. By their nature they will be more motivated and successful. They can see a buisness oppertunity that they control, it's ready to roll and can build on it with a backup team.
We employ, and fortunately for me Mrs smudger is a great people person with a great knowledge from recruitment so far our team of guys are as dedicated as we are, that's not to we've had the odd lemon thrown in!
Both option allow you too come away from the tools and see the bigger picture, developed the biz and keep growing, if you can't let go, and feel that you are the only one who do it correctly and constantly micro manage then both options are not for you.
Our customers can get anyone of 5 different cleaners, there's never an issue, they know our staff will do a top job - only when I very first moved off the glass did we receive the odd grumble but nothing like that for the last three years! - it's about managing customers expectations.
We have 75 rounds over the four week cycle, it takes between 4 to 6 months for a new guy to see them all.
Darran
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20% wouldn't be enough for me to consider it,like I said it all sounds lovely though.
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75 rounds mmm,what is each round making.
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thats between me, my accountant and unfortunately tax and vat man 😖
Darran
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75 rounds mmm,what is each round making.
The statement is meaningless unless it's qualified with data.
I have One round, it takes me around Eight weeks to get round it working full time. I can't imagine doing 75 of them rounds. ;D
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Just interested to know how much each round is doing..
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Exactly so what does he class as a round that's all I was asking mine is similar.
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so he's doing 250k a year minimum yeah for this model to work.
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A round is a day's work.
We run a 4 wky cycle, so 20 days each has 4 separate rounds ( or runs if you like ) some days have three rounds due to larger commercial works
Darran
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so he's doing 250k a year minimum yeah for this model to work.
No comment ;)
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I know what I can earn so I know roughly what are good figures,I'm not paying a few grand in TAX lol
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so he's doing 250k a year minimum yeah for this model to work.
No comment ;)
Darran's guys are full time, not part time.
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Makes no difference what they are turning over its irrelevant,if it was a franchise model based on the 20% he would be ending up with a rough figure of 2k after 45% tax etc.All depending on cash jobs so on and so forth.
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Isn't that the idea of franchising? You don't pay the tax they do unless your royalties go into that bracket. Keep up. The plan would eventually be to run your royalties up to and just below the higher rate if you got that far but you'd need a dammed good business.
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Dave - I think the whole thing of business development is above Nigel's head.
Darran
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Makes no difference what they are turning over its irrelevant,if it was a franchise model based on the 20% he would be ending up with a rough figure of 2k after 45% tax etc.All depending on cash jobs so on and so forth.
What have cash jobs to do with anything ?
Darran
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You know all those council houses that pay you in cash lol
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Smudger Im confused! 75 rounds??
You class a round as a days work??
I have alwas thought that a round is your round i class myself as having 5 rounds. 3 domestic rounds, a commercial round and a retail round! 3 guys are out on the domestics and 1 on commercial and 1 on retail unless a big job where more go on the commercial which is normally weekends.
So if you was in my shoes would you class that as having 60 domestic rounds/20 retail rounds and 20 commercial rounds?? Instead of 3 domestic rounds, a commercial and a retail round??.
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I dont think window cleaning franchising works to become rich as noone actually has over 20 fully funtioning franchises!!
If it takes 5 franchises to make what yourelf can on the tools! Well correct me if im wrong but thats an awful lot of customers needed. To be the equivalent of working and having 2 subby's/employees you would need 10/15 franchises! That to me is where window cleaning franchising seems slightly a waste of time especially if you have to pay for canvassing/leafletters etc. 5 fully working rounds would cost 40k to build via a canvassing company which is ridiculous. If you can do it yourself and have a team then fair enough... I cant say i know of any window licking franchise companies that have made it big time like other franchises out there have, where as there are many window cleaning companies with employees/subbys totally coining it in. I see franchising works but cant see anyone getting stinking rich from it.
Ill be happy to see someone totally make it and have a branded name that everyone knows and has people cuing up to have a franchise off them, i think its highly unlikely though.
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Well, we're aiming to have 44 franchises in 13 years, so you might want to restart this thread then...
Vin
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I have a round which has 4 customers in it.
it's the "Only do when no cars are on the drive, so i can take a poo in the garden round"
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Well, we're aiming to have 44 franchises in 13 years, so you might want to restart this thread then...
Vin
Pie in the sky. Yours are still on 3 day weeks!! ;D
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Well, we're aiming to have 44 franchises in 13 years, so you might want to restart this thread then...
Vin
Pie in the sky. Yours are still on 3 day weeks!! ;D
Good for you. Jolly good. Well done. Your opinion is important to me and I'm sure you know my business better than I do.
Vin
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Blimey at last some people on here beggining to this for what it is,this way of working is pie in the the sky on the sort of levels that are being talked about policing between 40-50 grand a month it's the stuff dreams are made of. I can see this happening about an hour before my breakfast just before I turn over in bed and fart and think I'll have another 10'minutes then I'll get up lol.
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I've just worked out how many rounds I have blimey I must have 20 pairs of arms and legs,a round is not based on a days work whoever thought that one up,that way of looking at things sums it up to me.
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For this to run anywhere near smoothly you would almost need a call centre keeping track of payments money owed by customers and franchisees work due to be completed work actually completed the list goes on. If this could be done it would've been,Duncan Banatyne gave an investment to a couple of window cleaners who wanted to go national he took it on but I believe he folded it someone said on here. When they said what they were doing a month with little expenses his eyes lit up I think they quoted 6-7k a month without really trying,domestic-commercial split. There are national cleaning firms who took over a couple a couple of jobs from me years ago we used to do early morning or evening cleaning,I spoke to one of the cleaning managers he said its a joke they are running at a loss. The window cleaning side was even more laughable they used to clean all the betfreds in the south at 6 quid a pop in some cases they drove 10-20 miles to each one for 6 quid,the turnover was fantastic on paper though lol
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We have Ian Lancaster claiming he "could have" been a millionaire. Mr Wikipedia- Perfect Vin telling us what is going to happen in 2017 and now in THIRTEEN YEARS TIME ;D ;D ;D
At the start of this thread I stated my belief that this model has limited scope..... and I stand by it as it seems to be currently evident.
Pie in the Sky indeed.
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It's quite flattering to have a stalker.
Vin
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Sounds like this is a mug hunting thread to me,thanks I've been told you've get me some enquiries lol when you dangle a carrot and all that. Pyramid selling comes to mind. 💩💩💩💩💩
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As we speak (write) there is probably a young computer geek writing an ap where you can simply book a clean on your phone, pay up front to somebody who has never cleaned anything, and in a very short time you will all be taking work from him, while he is making a fortune,
The world is changing at a phenomenal rate, and I suspect that concentrating on outdated methods is going to overtake everybody.
There is going to be a fortune made from window cleaning, but I don't think it will be by Franchising.
Have a chat with your kids, they may well have the answer (make sure you tell them that they won't have to clean any windows!!)
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I know what you are saying but let's get this right people- customers want to know who's cleaning there Windows,ok you can get staff to do the work but they want to know initially who you are who's going to be calling round there property. It's a personal thing you have a relationship with them albeit small talk or whatever it might be they know you they trust you they have expensive thing in and around there property John Doe covered in tattoos need not apply kind of thing it's how people with lots of money think in my experience,who knows how the next generation will think 2/3 of em will be covered in tattoos so things might be different then but that's years down the line. Some people are still coming to terms with WFP dial a window cleaner maybe in the future but I can't see it happening anytime soon or some franchise firm taking work from me.
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Yes Mick - I do class a day as a round, that's how it's listed on cp most days we have 4 rounds in different areas or villages, I know some ( including a guy who is slightly larger biz than me ) runs it as one round, because he just has a long list and does not have a set day/time period (roughly six weeks but a weeks grace either way) we work strictly 4 or 8 weeks clean same day of the week every time - any employee can do any round on that particular day
If it's easier to understand our window cleaning round ( the whole thing ) has 75 different runs. Much like parcel delivery companies have 30 or 40 runs from a hub
Darran
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A round of window cleaning is what it consists of as a whole not a days work lol,you don't have a round in a certain area you have some work in that area. All this talk about franchising I reckon if someone with good work expanded there work by 30-40% and had the same quality work if they employed 2 people to work it the operation would be far far simpler to manage,you would be able to keep track of things ie cash flow being robbed etc so much easier. It's no different in renting work out which some do,the initial fee is only there in this idea of working so that they think twice about going on there own when they finally wake up and smell the beans. Any person with cash in there pocket to spend should buy a round of work and if they have no experience most genuine sellers will work it with them for a few months if they are a serious buyer,franchises are full of smoke and mirrors. Saying a round is a day's work there's a bit of smoke and mirrors in there somewhere.
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I totally agree, but I see a trend where loyalty is rapidly disappearing. People just want to book, pay, and come home to clean windows.
I wonder what would happen if somebody called themselves "Black Friday Window Cleaners".
I think that with an ap they would make a killing.
It seems that these days the perception of a bargain would overrule the quality of the service.......I think!!
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I totally agree, but I see a trend where loyalty is rapidly disappearing. People just want to book, pay, and come home to clean windows.
I wonder what would happen if somebody called themselves "Black Friday Window Cleaners".
I think that with an ap they would make a killing.
It seems that these days the perception of a bargain would overrule the quality of the service.......I think!!
Probably right in many cases, many big marketing strategies are based around this sentiment and it works- big time!!
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Nick not in certain area m8 it certainly doesn't look like changing anytime soon where I work,it is a really big issue with them they don't want Tom or Dick turning up with a fAg on. I know on other work they couldn't give a monkeys there out at work they never see you but that's another story,that's the trouble on these threads when franchising or expansion is talked about they have the kind of work it can be done on certain people don't care who cleans there windows,other people do care. If you start sending just anyone to do your work they may not like the look of them and that's all it takes and for those jobs it's game over,would you be willing to risk it on one or two houses that's a days money I wouldn't thanks. Who cares if you lose a 3 bed semi or a couple of flats it can be got back in no time.
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Sounds like this is a mug hunting thread to me,thanks I've been told you've get me some enquiries lol when you dangle a carrot and all that. Pyramid selling comes to mind. 💩💩💩💩💩
One of the things I'm having trouble understanding is that, having read through all of your contributions on this thread, you're arguing that franchising is a bad deal for the franchisee. Unfortunately, in other posts you're also arguing that it's bad for the franchisor. Just something I've noticed, that's all...
Vin
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Nick not in certain area m8 it certainly doesn't look like changing anytime soon where I work,it is a really big issue with them they don't want Tom or Dick turning up with a fAg on. I know on other work they couldn't give a monkeys there out at work they never see you but that's another story,that's the trouble on these threads when franchising or expansion is talked about they have the kind of work it can be done on certain people don't care who cleans there windows,other people do care. If you start sending just anyone to do your work they may not like the look of them and that's all it takes and for those jobs it's game over,would you be willing to risk it on one or two houses that's a days money I wouldn't thanks. Who cares if you lose a 3 bed semi or a couple of flats it can be got back in no time.
I guess when you employed you sent Harry round?
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I'm bored now so someone please start another thread that has nothing to do with franchises.
And for god sake no more solar panel cleaning threads either I begg you otherwise you know who will be jumping in. ;D
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I don't think it's good for either you need a poope load of poope work to get for a start being the franchise and IMO your a mug if you buy into it you should just buy a round of work and if you lose some advertise to try and get more,are these people total numb nuts don't they know anything about business that they need you to get work for them. You telling them or reassuring them that if they lose work you'll get more for them that wouldn't fill me full of confidence thinking am I gonna be losing lots of work then. Why would they not buy a round from someone giving up or retiring are they stuuuuuuuuupid,you are offering them replacement work replacement work replacement work,in pyramid selling they say if you go out and find another mug like yourself I mean someone thinking to invest you'll benifit from it,complete balls. My advise to anyone doing this job would be constantly keep sifting through the wheat and chaff until you have quality work don't keep taking on work for works sake,you should listen to me I know what I'm on about lol 😂😂😂😂
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I don't think it's good for either you need a poope load of poope work to get for a start being the franchise and IMO your a mug if you buy into it you should just buy a round of work and if you lose some advertise to try and get more,are these people total numb nuts don't they know anything about business that they need you to get work for them. You telling them or reassuring them that if they lose work you'll get more for them that wouldn't fill me full of confidence thinking am I gonna be losing lots of work then. Why would they not buy a round from someone giving up or retiring are they stuuuuuuuuupid,you are offering them replacement work replacement work replacement work,in pyramid selling they say if you go out and find another mug like yourself I mean someone thinking to invest you'll benifit from it,complete balls. My advise to anyone doing this job would be constantly keep sifting through the wheat and chaff until you have quality work don't keep taking on work for works sake,you should listen to me I know what I'm on about lol
Ok we have all listened now please give it a rest FFS ;D
Personally I don't blame anyone wanting to build a business whatever business model it's based on to gain a healthy residual income from it.
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THE END.
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Thank god for that ;)
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Just one more thing lol.
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Just one more thing lol.
pmsl ;D ;D Thanks for making my day :D
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Sounds like this is a mug hunting thread to me,thanks I've been told you've get me some enquiries lol when you dangle a carrot and all that. Pyramid selling comes to mind. 💩💩💩💩💩
One of the things I'm having trouble understanding is that, having read through all of your contributions on this thread, you're arguing that franchising is a bad deal for the franchisee. Unfortunately, in other posts you're also arguing that it's bad for the franchisor. Just something I've noticed, that's all...
Vin
You'll also notice that NWH just likes to post on any thread to have an argument. Just look through his post history, possibly the most negative poster on here.
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Smurf I've got an offer for you you give me 50k and pay me 20%!of the take yeah don't worry when you completely balls my work up I'll get you some more more more more and more until your sick of me getting you more more and more work ok pal lol,what a load of old poope.
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You look through my history m8 would you like to sign up to my fan club if you pay me membership there's loads of extras I will get you more and more and more xtras lol,I only respond to a load of old poo that gets brought up on here. My pump is not working struggles to float my boat.
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You'll also notice that NWH just likes to post on any thread to have an argument. Just look through his post history, possibly the most negative poster on here.
To be honest I don't read many threads on here any more: many of the decent posters seem to have departed to be replaced by people who just automatically gainsay or attack posters personally rather than adding to the debate. I only posted in this thread because there were some - let's be charitable - "misunderstandings" being propagated.
Anyway, I'm off into the shadows again where my new stalker can't get to me.
Vin
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Vin good luck to you pal if your doing well good on ya go for it I'm not knocking you,it's been made to look like this will work on all window cleaning work out there but I know for a fact it won't in a million years. I mentioned run of the mill work and by this I mean the kind of work we started doing and still do on a smaller scale or the good payers for a short time on the job,my point is if you think this will work on estates and buy that I mean 1 house on a 1000 acres your wrong m8. This is probably not I would say the kind of work your after your looking for a high number of individual jobs fair enough,this has dragged on because a few people are trying to tell certain people how to suck eggs.
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You look through my history m8 would you like to sign up to my fan club if you pay me membership there's loads of extras I will get you more and more and more xtras lol,I only respond to a load of old poo that gets brought up on here. My pump is not working struggles to float my boat.
Yeh ok. Not even sure what any of that is supposed to mean but keep up the good work, this site needs more posters like you talking absolute nonsense.
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What have you contributed to this thread,you may as well go to bed m8.
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NWH is a spambot that has been programmed to respond to the word "franchise" from a pre-set ist of words :)
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NWH is a spambot that has been programmed to respond to the word "franchise" from a pre-set ist of words :)
And the word conservatory. He's programmed to promote a free conservatory clean to any that currently charge. This makes him an expert in business. ;D
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Very interesting thread. I'd always wondered if I could completely retire..but having read this post you wouldn't have to retire completely. Build a successful business, employ, and at the end of it all split the business into franchises and manage them.. And live happily ever after :)
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Wanted to resurrect this thread...
What are peoples opinions on window cleaning franchises these days?
Andy :)
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My opinion is that even with the gift of time, NWH was a moron, is still a moron and will probably continue to be a moron.
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I know nothing about window cleaning and never will do I’ve just invested 100s of 1000s of pounds in my business and it still makes a loss,I earn near enough the same as I did before I employed a football team and franchised half a dozen rounds.
Big hitters and BullS*****s that when you listen to them and close you’re eyes it’s like listening to Trump without the Donald 🤣🤣🤣💩💩.
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four years later - and noting has changed eh, Nigel ;)
Darran
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apart from the lol's are now 🤣🤣🤣 because you can finally afford an iPhone ;D
Darran
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👍 👌
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I watched a YouTube video the other day about someone that comes on here,it was painful and cringeworthy the bloke that made it is as innocent as a child bless him.