Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steven Butler on December 01, 2015, 10:23:33 pm
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I use the same products since the day i started...got no problems at all but if you could tempt me to change or advise me to try something else what would you recommend???
Basically what are you currently using?l and how does it compare to different products you have tried in the past..
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What are you using?
I have tried all sorts and now use 4 basic products.
Powerburst for real mingers,SPM or other boosted MS's for those in betweeners and either MPower or PureX for cleanish wool.
I occasionally use an in tank cleaner such as F90 or Ultimate Master.
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Mostly spm here tbh
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Power burst for mingers, pure clean for everything else sometimes boosted with oxystuff or/ and solvent. Sometimes a acid rinse sometimes just water sometimes some form of detergent rinse.
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Cheers for the replies so far.
I use SPM/MPower only.
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give powdered f90 a go mate.......................... very very good.............................
bio clean, same as m power but cheaper,
enzall, great on certain jobs.........
omega for encap/commercials.............. economic and very good.....
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Citrus pre spray, tlc both Alltec are main pre sprays.
Ultimate master in tank for most, sometimes just acid rinse and liquid formula 90 for mingers in tank.
I should use ultimate master as pre spray aswell but just can't get my head round it, I feel if I use a different pre spray it's like a 2 pronged attack on soil.
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SPM....find it to be a great all round product.
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For spm do any u find just use a hand brush for agitation it still works.haven't got round buy sebo duo yet next on list.got some spm last week but not had great results using it
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Iain - SPM is a great product. As its a microsplitter agitation is key - it works immediately so dwell isnt as important but mechanical agitation will make a difference.
It needs to be hot as well so the oxi boost element is active and obviously so it dissolves properly
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I'm using John Kelly's powered MS on everything, carpets & upholstery, if it's got an odour problem then I use Chemspecs Odour kill plus
I Mix 17lts in my electric sprayer and no matter how grafted it is it comes up great. I keep a bar of felts Napther in my pocket if any stains don't move with the agatation then I give them a rub.
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17 litres Mike...that's a lot for a days domestics.
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A lot I use around 8 ltrs on 2-3 rooms with my electric sprayer there not to wet and I think a bit more cleans better with good agitation.
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17 litres Mike...that's a lot for a days domestics.
Some times I don't use it all but I look at the work booked in for the day if its a bit small I will mix a bit less, I don't like to keep it over night as its oxi boosted so will die off over time
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Any left overs I have go straight in the rinse tank , mpower or SPM /RPM most jobs
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Roughly how much spm would say use in general sized room and general dirt.i was only useing a 1-1half litre a room is that enough
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U guys using those inefficient basic products ... working up a sweat with the extra agitation , lining the pockets of the suppliers of that cheap to make stuff . And the benefit to u and the customer is ? ...
unproven at least
Lots of places offering these type of deodorizer additives now ... this is great value if u buy 4x5lts
Everything i did this week smells of lavender ... the customers seem to take to it .
And with antibacterial additives it may reduce odor causing microorganisms in the drying carpet
( tried the others here but lavender is the nicest for in home imo )
http://mistralie.co.uk/collections/home-and-janitorial/products/carpet-fabric-deodoriser-premium-concentrate
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I'm using John Kelly's powered MS on everything, carpets & upholstery, if it's got an odour problem then I use Chemspecs Odour kill plus
I Mix 17lts in my electric sprayer and no matter how grafted it is it comes up great. I keep a bar of felts Napther in my pocket if any stains don't move with the agatation then I give them a rub.
Do you mind me asking where you bought the Felts Napther from?
I can't seem to find it anywhere?
Thanks
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Amazon, eBay it's a laundry soap
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John how can it be inefficient ? It cleans the carpets for pennies, I could cut my cost in half and save myself errrrr... ( (what's half of pennies?)
The benefit to customers is clean carpets, the benefit to me is a chemical that gives me the results that I want , I might be able to source the ingredients my self but the saving is negligible.
MS are proven....... by me over the last 10yrs ( is a ten year test acceptable? ) I have tried every chemical available, I clean carpets every single Day if I could do it better I would, why would I make life hard for myself?
I understand your dislike of waffle & BS used by companies to sell chemicals but just because they bullsh!t us doesn't alter the fact that the stuff works
I buy felts from Walmart when in the US :)
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I'm using John Kelly's powered MS on everything, carpets & upholstery, if it's got an odour problem then I use Chemspecs Odour kill plus
I Mix 17lts in my electric sprayer and no matter how grafted it is it comes up great. I keep a bar of felts Napther in my pocket if any stains don't move with the agatation then I give them a rub.
Hi Mike what electric sprayer are you using ?
Richard
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John how can it be inefficient ? It cleans the carpets for pennies, I could cut my cost in half and save myself errrrr... ( (what's half of pennies?)
The benefit to customers is clean carpets, the benefit to me is a chemical that gives me the results that I want , I might be able to source the ingredients my self but the saving is negligible.
MS are proven....... by me over the last 10yrs ( is a ten year test acceptable? ) I have tried every chemical available, I clean carpets every single Day if I could do it better I would, why would I make life hard for myself?
I understand your dislike of waffle & BS used by companies to sell chemicals but just because they bullsh!t us doesn't alter the fact that the stuff works
I buy felts from Walmart when in the US :)
Its logical to me that a product that contains one cleaning ingredient can be as efficient as a product that also contains the same ingredient plus several other ingredients with specific roles in the cleaning process .
I have also tried these products , i know for sure when face with a dull upholstery suite with greasy headrests , armrests grey from grime ... that a basic product like a ' microsplitter ' will not out perform a proper prespray , followed with a decent cleaning rinse . In terms of result and time to achieve result .
if what u use works for u , fine ... its cleaning ... i'd question is it ' popping ' ( as the Americans say )
or might your standard of ' pop ' be the same as my standard of ' pop '
hope that makes sense :D
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I agree it's Not logical that a single base product would perform as well as a combination alternative, but perhaps it's like a car you want to reach a speed of 100mph, you fit a turbo to your car so it does 140mph but the target is 100.....so why bother with the turbo.......... Does that make sense!!! ;)
MS ( I know you hate that term but it's a lot easier to type than its real name ) has other advantages, the biggest is its non-residual nature, if you don't rinse it all out of the carpet when you clean it will not create a problem, (which if you are using a smaller pump can happen) Compare this to one of your favourite chemicals d'lemonene which is incredibly hard to rinse out, I stopped using citrus gel because of how I had to get out my hand tool and get on my knees to rinse it out after using it. If you are using a prespray containing citrus oils (or however they describe it) you need to make sure you give the carpet a really good flushing out so none remains.
You mentioned in the topic on spotting bottles about making a spotter with added d'lemonene which is a really bad idea as it will be impossible to blot out with a cloth.
MS are safer alternative to stronger chemicals, I'm not one for being 'safe' for the sake of it but if you can do the job without risk you might as well
...........
Richard, I bought it of eBay, can't remember the seller sorry.
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Nah its all BS
look at the sticky ad at the top of this page ... soap free MS !
no carpet cleaning product contains soap these days .
Environmentally safe ! what about the algae bloom ...
Apart from making the job easier for yourself customers imo want a bright vibrant result , not some unproven notion of safety .
same reason they dont choose to buy pound shop washing powder for their laundry , which like MS probably just contains washing soda .
They choose the three times more expensive billion $ researched lever bros and henkle products because the results speak for themselves .
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Do you mind me asking where you bought the Felts Napther from?
I can't seem to find it anywhere?
Thanks
You on Truckmounters? John Freeman on there has boxes of the stuff. £4 each plus £2.50 p&p.
Phone numbers on his website.
http://www.cleanbright.co.uk/
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John, a lot of the odour issues stemming from damp carpets are related to moulds and mildews rather than bacteria. Using an anti-bacterial deodouriser is not sufficient to deal with this problem. You require a broad spectrum anti microbial which deals with moulds and mildews as well as bacteria. I know customers who have tried to deal with post clean odour issues by either cleaning the carpet again or just spraying an anti bacterial and have made the problem even worse.
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John, a lot of the odour issues stemming from damp carpets are related to moulds and mildews rather than bacteria. Using an anti-bacterial deodouriser is not sufficient to deal with this problem. You require a broad spectrum anti microbial which deals with moulds and mildews as well as bacteria. I know customers who have tried to deal with post clean odour issues by either cleaning the carpet again or just spraying an anti bacterial and have made the problem even worse.
I didn't even look into what it it contains ....bac50 is the only one I can think of off the top of my head . If it's that then it will hit moulds also even though it's often sold as an anti bacteria content.
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Well ive only tried a few different things thus far..
but so far im happy with spm for carpets and fusion8 for upholstery
also been using purified water as a rinse rather than adding an acid rinse and so far so good
i will try something else out when these fail, got loads of samples in van but not needed to crack them open as yet!
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John, a lot of the odour issues stemming from damp carpets are related to moulds and mildews rather than bacteria. Using an anti-bacterial deodouriser is not sufficient to deal with this problem. You require a broad spectrum anti microbial which deals with moulds and mildews as well as bacteria. I know customers who have tried to deal with post clean odour issues by either cleaning the carpet again or just spraying an anti bacterial and have made the problem even worse.
I believe it is Didecyldimethylammonium chloride ... which should zap everything
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I agree it's Not logical that a single base product would perform as well as a combination alternative, but perhaps it's like a car you want to reach a speed of 100mph, you fit a turbo to your car so it does 140mph but the target is 100.....so why bother with the turbo.......... Does that make sense!!! ;)
MS ( I know you hate that term but it's a lot easier to type than its real name ) has other advantages, the biggest is its non-residual nature, if you don't rinse it all out of the carpet when you clean it will not create a problem, (which if you are using a smaller pump can happen) Compare this to one of your favourite chemicals d'lemonene which is incredibly hard to rinse out, I stopped using citrus gel because of how I had to get out my hand tool and get on my knees to rinse it out after using it. If you are using a prespray containing citrus oils (or however they describe it) you need to make sure you give the carpet a really good flushing out so none remains.
You mentioned in the topic on spotting bottles about making a spotter with added d'lemonene which is a really bad idea as it will be impossible to blot out with a cloth.
MS are safer alternative to stronger chemicals, I'm not one for being 'safe' for the sake of it but if you can do the job without risk you might as well
...........
Richard, I bought it of eBay, can't remember the seller sorry.
Hi Mike, i would agree with you citrus based products are harder to rinse off any type surfaces they are used on, must admit i used MS for a few years with good results, then i discovered colloidal chemistry and found i was getting great results on any type of surface, this industry like all is moving forward and its great to see more new technologies appearing all the time which are becoming far safer and more effective than the old school technologies which will flounder over time, its all about being open and receptive to these new technologies which will just keep coming on stream as there are many in development which will become of benefit to those that are open to working with them. Tadgh
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I agree it's Not logical that a single base product would perform as well as a combination alternative, but perhaps it's like a car you want to reach a speed of 100mph, you fit a turbo to your car so it does 140mph but the target is 100.....so why bother with the turbo.......... Does that make sense!!! ;)
MS ( I know you hate that term but it's a lot easier to type than its real name ) has other advantages, the biggest is its non-residual nature, if you don't rinse it all out of the carpet when you clean it will not create a problem, (which if you are using a smaller pump can happen) Compare this to one of your favourite chemicals d'lemonene which is incredibly hard to rinse out, I stopped using citrus gel because of how I had to get out my hand tool and get on my knees to rinse it out after using it. If you are using a prespray containing citrus oils (or however they describe it) you need to make sure you give the carpet a really good flushing out so none remains.
You mentioned in the topic on spotting bottles about making a spotter with added d'lemonene which is a really bad idea as it will be impossible to blot out with a cloth.
MS are safer alternative to stronger chemicals, I'm not one for being 'safe' for the sake of it but if you can do the job without risk you might as well
...........
Richard, I bought it of eBay, can't remember the seller sorry.
Hi Mike, i would agree with you citrus based products are harder to rinse off any type surfaces they are used on, must admit i used MS for a few years with good results, then i discovered colloidal chemistry and found i was getting great results on any type of surface, this industry like all is moving forward and its great to see more new technologies appearing all the time which are becoming far safer and more effective than the old school technologies which will flounder over time, its all about being open and receptive to these new technologies which will just keep coming on stream as there are many in development which will become of benefit to those that are open to working with them. Tadgh
Tadgh , you are impossible to argue with as you will not or cannot explain the specific ' technologies ' u propose are ' taking over '
Cant u just stick to dementing those unfortunates in the the hard floor section ;D
You dont even sell a carpet specific product ... unless u make a bit of mmm-power for under counter sales ;)
so as far as i see u dilute and sell the the plant detergent .... and u get some other products with names like 'nano ' from a small company of less that 10 workers in the states which imports mops and bits from china .
Hardly industry changing stuff :)
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I agree it's Not logical that a single base product would perform as well as a combination alternative, but perhaps it's like a car you want to reach a speed of 100mph, you fit a turbo to your car so it does 140mph but the target is 100.....so why bother with the turbo.......... Does that make sense!!! ;)
MS ( I know you hate that term but it's a lot easier to type than its real name ) has other advantages, the biggest is its non-residual nature, if you don't rinse it all out of the carpet when you clean it will not create a problem, (which if you are using a smaller pump can happen) Compare this to one of your favourite chemicals d'lemonene which is incredibly hard to rinse out, I stopped using citrus gel because of how I had to get out my hand tool and get on my knees to rinse it out after using it. If you are using a prespray containing citrus oils (or however they describe it) you need to make sure you give the carpet a really good flushing out so none remains.
You mentioned in the topic on spotting bottles about making a spotter with added d'lemonene which is a really bad idea as it will be impossible to blot out with a cloth.
MS are safer alternative to stronger chemicals, I'm not one for being 'safe' for the sake of it but if you can do the job without risk you might as well
...........
Richard, I bought it of eBay, can't remember the seller sorry.
Hi Mike, i would agree with you citrus based products are harder to rinse off any type surfaces they are used on, must admit i used MS for a few years with good results, then i discovered colloidal chemistry and found i was getting great results on any type of surface, this industry like all is moving forward and its great to see more new technologies appearing all the time which are becoming far safer and more effective than the old school technologies which will flounder over time, its all about being open and receptive to these new technologies which will just keep coming on stream as there are many in development which will become of benefit to those that are open to working with them. Tadgh
Tadgh , you are impossible to argue with as you will not or cannot explain the specific ' technologies ' u propose are ' taking over '
Cant u just stick to dementing those unfortunates in the the hard floor section ;D
You dont even sell a carpet specific product ... unless u make a bit of mmm-power for under counter sales ;)
so as far as i see u dilute and sell the the plant detergent .... and u get some other products with names like 'nano ' from a small company of less that 10 workers in the states which imports mops and bits from china .
Hardly industry changing stuff :)
John you just have no clue, you state that guys are making MS products in the back of dingy commercial units, why don't you checkout www.solution-gloeckner.de one of the largest producers of MS products in Europe, i purchase our colloidal products from the worlds foremost expert in this field, his 150,000 sq ft production facility is state of the art and his adjoining 200,000 sq ft warehouse facility distributes millions of dollars per month of safe and effective cleaning solutions to companies all around the world.
Your at home in your kitchen making potions which you can boost up to pH 16 ;D, come on John get off the stage and start looking around to see whats a changing. Tadgh
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Tadgh , the PH 16 thing was a joke i'd say only you fell for .. You know you can turn some amplifiers up to 11 also
I am a qualified lab tech ...
The german guys were the first to put phosphate in a big can of water and see $$ signs if they could convince people it was a new eco product . The story also involves a bankrupt american business man and couple of chancers in the UK .
I dont know where u get your plant detergent concentrate to water down ... probably same source as nick .
Your nano stuff comes from a small time dealer in the US and the mops come from china .
apart from the germans who im sure have pristine facilities ;D , the UK ( and irl ) MS and plant detergent would mostly be watered down as u said in the back of dingy commercial units . Yes :)
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Tadgh , the PH 16 thing was a joke i'd say only you fell for .. You know you can turn some amplifiers up to 11 also
I am a qualified lab tech ...
The german guys were the first to put phosphate in a big can of water and see $$ signs if they could convince people it was a new eco product . The story also involves a bankrupt american business man and couple of chancers in the UK .
I dont know where u get your plant detergent concentrate to water down ... probably same source as nick .
Your nano stuff comes from a small time dealer in the US and the mops come from china .
apart from the germans who im sure have pristine facilities ;D , the UK ( and irl ) MS and plant detergent would mostly be watered down as u said in the back of dingy commercial units . Yes :)
John, i can only repeat you really don't have a clue, and you proved it with your pH 16 which i think was plain to see by the guys in the know, who are you trying to cod only yourself, thats one you can never live down.
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I agree it's Not logical that a single base product would perform as well as a combination alternative, but perhaps it's like a car you want to reach a speed of 100mph, you fit a turbo to your car so it does 140mph but the target is 100.....so why bother with the turbo.......... Does that make sense!!! ;)
MS ( I know you hate that term but it's a lot easier to type than its real name ) has other advantages, the biggest is its non-residual nature, if you don't rinse it all out of the carpet when you clean it will not create a problem, (which if you are using a smaller pump can happen) Compare this to one of your favourite chemicals d'lemonene which is incredibly hard to rinse out, I stopped using citrus gel because of how I had to get out my hand tool and get on my knees to rinse it out after using it. If you are using a prespray containing citrus oils (or however they describe it) you need to make sure you give the carpet a really good flushing out so none remains.
You mentioned in the topic on spotting bottles about making a spotter with added d'lemonene which is a really bad idea as it will be impossible to blot out with a cloth.
MS are safer alternative to stronger chemicals, I'm not one for being 'safe' for the sake of it but if you can do the job without risk you might as well
...........
Richard, I bought it of eBay, can't remember the seller sorry.
Hi Mike, i would agree with you citrus based products are harder to rinse off any type surfaces they are used on, must admit i used MS for a few years with good results, then i discovered colloidal chemistry and found i was getting great results on any type of surface, this industry like all is moving forward and its great to see more new technologies appearing all the time which are becoming far safer and more effective than the old school technologies which will flounder over time, its all about being open and receptive to these new technologies which will just keep coming on stream as there are many in development which will become of benefit to those that are open to working with them. Tadgh
Tadgh , you are impossible to argue with as you will not or cannot explain the specific ' technologies ' u propose are ' taking over '
Cant u just stick to dementing those unfortunates in the the hard floor section ;D
You dont even sell a carpet specific product ... unless u make a bit of mmm-power for under counter sales ;)
so as far as i see u dilute and sell the the plant detergent .... and u get some other products with names like 'nano ' from a small company of less that 10 workers in the states which imports mops and bits from china .
Hardly industry changing stuff :)
John, step forward and prove who you are, your real name, where you are based, and your company details just like i have never hidden, i will then be happy in answering any questions you have about the technologies which will take over the cleaning industry. Tadgh
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Tadgh and John play nicely
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Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.
However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.
The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold. Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .
I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
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Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.
However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.
The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold. Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .
I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
Cool , you used a more effective product and made life easier for yourself with improved results .
And because u diluted it yourself it's probably has a lower carbon footprint than a big can of suppliers watery Microsplitter And the shipping involved
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Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.
However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.
The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold. Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .
I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
Cool , you used a more effective product and made life easier for yourself with improved results .
And because u diluted it yourself it's probably has a lower carbon footprint than a big can of suppliers watery Microsplitter And the shipping involved
John , I am all for doing things oin a better way , you are quick to try and display a higher knowledge and slam products commonly used as ineffectual and a rip off ,,,,, great , but apart from a bacteriacidal deodorizer , you have offered no constructive alternative , it is easy to knock something down and offer no alternative that is better.
Better means ... in no particular order....
cheaper
more effective
easy to buy
easy to use
safe
Come on John , gain credibility by stating xy or z product is better.
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A lot of the Time I'm just stating the obvious . But sure il try and reply later .
In the meantime iv have a full late day of spraying lavender on couches ;D
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Mike.
, what is John kellys MS?
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Restore-it Colin
http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/0005f
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ive used restore it, its very good................... well worth a try!!
kinda got out of the habit since going onto powdered f90.
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Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.
However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.
The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold. Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .
I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
Cool , you used a more effective product and made life easier for yourself with improved results .
And because u diluted it yourself it's probably has a lower carbon footprint than a big can of suppliers watery Microsplitter And the shipping involved
John , I am all for doing things oin a better way , you are quick to try and display a higher knowledge and slam products commonly used as ineffectual and a rip off ,,,,, great , but apart from a bacteriacidal deodorizer , you have offered no constructive alternative , it is easy to knock something down and offer no alternative that is better.
Better means ... in no particular order....
cheaper
more effective
easy to buy
easy to use
safe
Come on John , gain credibility by stating xy or z product is better.
I presume u mean which product is better than the microsplitters etc ?
Briefly , i will go through your list
Cheaper- like , most of these carpet powders are fairly closely matched price wise so price should not be a big deal , as long as your getting a substantial product or your money . Chemicals as such are not a huge spend in terms of the business .
More effective - I presume u know 'microsplitter ' is not a substance , Its a made up marketing term .
Originally it was phosphate in water , now they seem to be using the term for sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) or a mix of the two and even percarbonate added .
So your granny years ago was not washing her drawers in washing soda ... she was ' microsplitting them ' ahead of her time granny .
So the chemicals used in ' MS ' sodium carbonate and phosphate usually form the largest % ingredient in the more complex carpet powders like ultimate master and others ... but they add other ingredients which will improve the overall performance . Bad analogy but u know like some serious diseases are treated by a cocktail of drugs where as one on own is fairly ineffective .
Likewise a cocktail of cleaning ingredients each with a particular strength is likely to perform better in dealing with a variety of soiling conditions .
The usual ingredients added to the mix include solvents and surfactants . In practical terms where u might notice a difference in results between MS and a complex cocktail mix might be in the brightness and vibrancy of end result . Have u ever cleaned a carpet and it looks ok ... but then u spot clean a mark with solvent and the area around the spot is brighter than your carpet ( of course u should know not to do that ) but it shows that a brighter result was possible ... so i want the solvents and other ingredients in my initial prespray .... so as the item being cleaned will ' pop ' and give a vibrant result with the minimal effort on my part .
So to answer your question , just about any complex powder or liquid mix will out perform the MS .
Im not hung up on brands as most use the same twenty of so ingredients in a variety of ways .
Easy to buy -
Isnt everything easy to buy these days ... im off the beaten path in ireland and i can have anything in the post in acouple of days , and shipping is cheap , the likes of mistral , shipping is free!
Easy to use -
... gee , follow instructions , making a sandwich is more difficult .
safe -
you would have to define safe .
Safe for the environment ? like i said , even phosphate MS will cause algae bloom even though its marketed as environmentally safe .
Safe for us , in the way its used most things will be safe as any other product we come in contact with in daily life .
Its simple cleaning detergent were dealing with not radioactive waste .
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John your posts remind me of the problem that happens with gaining information from safety data sheets and cut & pasting ingredients into Google and reading their discription on Wikipedia or companies websites, this doesn't make you a chemist,
you think you are the only one who does it, I do exactly the same thing, trying to work out how to cut out the manufacturers and buy the basic ingredients, but like is evident in your post you know the ingredients but you don't know the ratios, as SDS info only gives +% or -% eg: >30% sodiummetasilicate,
You also don't take into account how a chemical can come in different purities, strengths and physical form, just knowing a name does not mean you know the definitive chemical (just like me saying 'go buy some flour to bake with' flour is flour right?)
you talk BS Peppered with big words cut & pasted off chemical descriptions, it might fool the beginners on here into believing you know what you are on about but for everyone else who has done the same thing we can see the quackery oozing out of every post.
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I've just got through a whole tub of Pringles reading this thread... ;)
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8) i started it!
Still dont know what product most of you prefer ha
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8) i started it!
Still dont know what product most of you prefer ha
steven I use citrus premium as pre spray I was using champion , going to give f 90 another go after my last tub of craftex premium clean .I don't know about you but the price of a chemical does not bother me as long as it works ;D
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Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.
However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.
The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold. Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .
I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
Cool , you used a more effective product and made life easier for yourself with improved results .
And because u diluted it yourself it's probably has a lower carbon footprint than a big can of suppliers watery Microsplitter And the shipping involved
John , I am all for doing things oin a better way , you are quick to try and display a higher knowledge and slam products commonly used as ineffectual and a rip off ,,,,, great , but apart from a bacteriacidal deodorizer , you have offered no constructive alternative , it is easy to knock something down and offer no alternative that is better.
Better means ... in no particular order....
cheaper
more effective
easy to buy
easy to use
safe
Come on John , gain credibility by stating xy or z product is better.
I presume u mean which product is better than the microsplitters etc ?
Briefly , i will go through your list
Cheaper- like , most of these carpet powders are fairly closely matched price wise so price should not be a big deal , as long as your getting a substantial product or your money . Chemicals as such are not a huge spend in terms of the business .
More effective - I presume u know 'microsplitter ' is not a substance , Its a made up marketing term .
Originally it was phosphate in water , now they seem to be using the term for sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) or a mix of the two and even percarbonate added .
So your granny years ago was not washing her drawers in washing soda ... she was ' microsplitting them ' ahead of her time granny .
So the chemicals used in ' MS ' sodium carbonate and phosphate usually form the largest % ingredient in the more complex carpet powders like ultimate master and others ... but they add other ingredients which will improve the overall performance . Bad analogy but u know like some serious diseases are treated by a cocktail of drugs where as one on own is fairly ineffective .
Likewise a cocktail of cleaning ingredients each with a particular strength is likely to perform better in dealing with a variety of soiling conditions .
The usual ingredients added to the mix include solvents and surfactants . In practical terms where u might notice a difference in results between MS and a complex cocktail mix might be in the brightness and vibrancy of end result . Have u ever cleaned a carpet and it looks ok ... but then u spot clean a mark with solvent and the area around the spot is brighter than your carpet ( of course u should know not to do that ) but it shows that a brighter result was possible ... so i want the solvents and other ingredients in my initial prespray .... so as the item being cleaned will ' pop ' and give a vibrant result with the minimal effort on my part .
So to answer your question , just about any complex powder or liquid mix will out perform the MS .
Im not hung up on brands as most use the same twenty of so ingredients in a variety of ways .
Easy to buy -
Isnt everything easy to buy these days ... im off the beaten path in ireland and i can have anything in the post in acouple of days , and shipping is cheap , the likes of mistral , shipping is free!
Easy to use -
... gee , follow instructions , making a sandwich is more difficult .
safe -
you would have to define safe .
Safe for the environment ? like i said , even phosphate MS will cause algae bloom even though its marketed as environmentally safe .
Safe for us , in the way its used most things will be safe as any other product we come in contact with in daily life .
Its simple cleaning detergent were dealing with not radioactive waste .
You still have not answered the question , I and many others here are not stupid , we know what is in the products , we buy from suppliers because they are products , not random estimates , any insurance or damage issues and we have recourse to the suppliers or our insurers , you have not named one product or supplier , just come up with flim flam silly issue dodging answers .
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steven, try some f90 powdered.................. compare it to m power/spm................. then tell me if im wrong.....
so much cheaper, does an amazing job, every time.......................... use it in tank and also as a pre spray with some citrus booster if needed, you will be impressed....
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Mike.
, what is John kellys MS?
Iv'e got some Col if you wanna try it out mate
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You still have not answered the question , I and many others here are not stupid , we know what is in the products , we buy from suppliers because they are products , not random estimates , any insurance or damage issues and we have recourse to the suppliers or our insurers , you have not named one product or supplier , just come up with flim flam silly issue dodging answers .
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I dont know ... i tried to give you a detailed explanation of why id pick a certain product instead of a one word answer , wouldn't you be curious as to why id pick a certain brand or product .
I would go with Tims post above for example of product id trust more to deliver .
If you favor a certain chemistry , tell us about it in detail , id listen anyway , mightn't agree .
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As far as i am aware the MSDS sheets won't declare all the ingredients anyway - only the ones that are deemed hazardous in some way, so viewing them doesn't tell you the full chemical make up of a product
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All this questioning the data sheets ...
Perhaps the microsplitter guys hope there is some sort of hidden special ingredient in their MS ,that dosn't show up on msds sheets ... a sprinkling of pixie dust perhaps .
Well theres nothin .. just your spoonfull of washing soda , a big plastic can of water , happy cleaning .
Many of the data sheets are quite detailed , i can kinda tell any of the lean ones at this stage .
Take this one of eg ... mentioned on another thread .
It even mentions the sodium sulfate , the bulking agent . I can tell u there is nothing else in it worth mentioning .
http://alltec.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/BLITZW-GREASEBREAKER_sds.pdf
I had this today , gold colored couches in car mechanics >:( house >:(
The solvent presprays and heat cut through it and it popped real good .
Microsplitter guy would leave a dull improvement , his arms would ache from all that agitation :D
Cold water MS guy might as well just pack up and leave .
Do the owners care if the solvent didnt rince out 100% nope , do i care , nope .
Will they be calling me back this time next year , you bet .
Did they book carpet cleaning for January , yup
Will they be calling MS guy , nope . ;D
(http://i68.tinypic.com/24cxp5i.jpg)
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to be fair John - you are now insulting a lot of guys on here
i have lost count of all the people who have said how good a product SPM is - so are you saying they are all lying and can't get things clean?
we can all get good results, we can all get customers so happy they book more work in, your aren't anything special and you are gonna drop off your pedestal soon with those sorts of comments
you are basically saying no one can achieve the results you can which is total bullpoop and quite disappointing - i thought you had more about you than to lower yourself to saying 'my way is outright better than your way'
what happens if you cock up with one of your magic potions? what happens if you have a claim on your insurance and they ask you and your supplier to provide evidence of what you use?
the difference between people who buy solutions from suppliers and don't make their own 'magic potions' is we have support from them - you won't and you never know when that might bite you in ya ass
who are you to say there is nothing else worth mentioning in a Companies product? the fact is you can't justify that comment because you just can't know that
for sure, many products are similar, with research and experience you can make savings on products and learn more about whats in them, but you are just right out slagging off many suppliers products without actually being qualified to do so - as far as i am aware you don't have any qualifications in any Science's so what makes you an authority on the subject other than the fact you clean things like the rest of us?
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to be fair John - you are now insulting a lot of guys on here
i have lost count of all the people who have said how good a product SPM is - so are you saying they are all lying and can't get things clean?
we can all get good results, we can all get customers so happy they book more work in, your aren't anything special and you are gonna drop off your pedestal soon with those sorts of comments
you are basically saying no one can achieve the results you can which is total bullpoop and quite disappointing - i thought you had more about you than to lower yourself to saying 'my way is outright better than your way'
what happens if you cock up with one of your magic potions? what happens if you have a claim on your insurance and they ask you and your supplier to provide evidence of what you use?
the difference between people who buy solutions from suppliers and don't make their own 'magic potions' is we have support from them - you won't and you never know when that might bite you in ya ass
who are you to say there is nothing else worth mentioning in a Companies product? the fact is you can't justify that comment because you just can't know that
for sure, many products are similar, with research and experience you can make savings on products and learn more about whats in them, but you are just right out slagging off many suppliers products without actually being qualified to do so - as far as i am aware you don't have any qualifications in any Science's so what makes you an authority on the subject other than the fact you clean things like the rest of us?
No i didnt use magic potions , i just selected the right tool for the job .
It was all Alltec , citrus prespray , orange terepene was enough to break the oily mess up ...
I could have mixed in some glycol ester i have on the van , which would have made it more like chemspec HDSL which would also have being a great choice .
Extracted with UM and heat .
I not saying you couldn't get a result of sorts with other products but just MS on that would be like cutting you lawn with a scissors , slow and inefficient .
Yes i have science qualifications .
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That photo is another example of trying to fool the newbies ::)roll although it looks impressive it's not really, it just shows the effect of prespray on a fabric.
get any mildly dirty cushion and prespray it you will make it look MASSIVLY dirty, once you extract half it makes a great photo of 'before & after' but it's just an optical illusion done to fool the inexperienced.
Once again you think you are the only one who has this secret knowledge. I have 100s of photos showing the same thing.
Look at the photo has anyone ever seen a back cushion which is so equally dirty..... even in the areas that are never touched! How did the it get so equally dirty right into the edges! It's look like that because it has been completely soaked in pre-spray...... I doubt it was very dirty at all ::)roll. Why does someone need to use fake photos?
Here's some videos using crappy single product MS & a cold water rinse, these even show the 'wet effect' of how a prespray can make a fabric appear more dirty
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZU4x8IlG88
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwMCgt-QhXY
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That photo is another example of trying to fool the newbies ::)roll although it looks impressive it's not really, it just shows the effect of prespray on a fabric.
get any mildly dirty cushion and prespray it you will make it look MASSIVLY dirty, once you extract half it makes a great photo of 'before & after' but it's just an optical illusion done to fool the inexperienced.
Once again you think you are the only one who has this secret knowledge. I have 100s of photos showing the same thing.
Look at the photo has anyone ever seen a back cushion which is so equally dirty..... even in the areas that are never touched! How did the it get so equally dirty right into the edges! It's look like that because it has been completely soaked in pre-spray...... I doubt it was very dirty at all ::)roll. Why does someone need to use fake photos?
Here's some videos using crappy single product MS & a cold water rinse, these even show the 'wet effect' of how a prespray can make a fabric appear more dirty
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZU4x8IlG88
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwMCgt-QhXY
This is hilarious to me as u know your stuff in general yet your so wrong here ...
This was a auto garage owners house , the garage is on the premises . He and his son use this TV room on a coffee break and sit down with the black overalls and watch a bit of the news .
Thats why its evenly black .... your wet illusion wouldn't work well on this fabric .
The armrest is clean , that upper corner is the last bit to do . The couch in the background is still dirty .
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John
The arguments you bring up for suppliers ripping us off are totally wrong ,the chemists and suppliers offer a service that we all use willingly,it is a expense that in the whole scheme of things is not of any consequences .
I can buy Mpower 5lt , shockwave 15kg and dynamal 5lt for under £200 and under my pricing that's enough product to produce a turnover of £15000 .
It's not worth all the time and arguing you do about it , You should concentrate more on advertising and working as that would have a positive worth.
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That photo is another example of trying to fool the newbies ::)roll although it looks impressive it's not really, it just shows the effect of prespray on a fabric.
get any mildly dirty cushion and prespray it you will make it look MASSIVLY dirty, once you extract half it makes a great photo of 'before & after' but it's just an optical illusion done to fool the inexperienced.
Once again you think you are the only one who has this secret knowledge. I have 100s of photos showing the same thing.
Look at the photo has anyone ever seen a back cushion which is so equally dirty..... even in the areas that are never touched! How did the it get so equally dirty right into the edges! It's look like that because it has been completely soaked in pre-spray...... I doubt it was very dirty at all ::)roll. Why does someone need to use fake photos?
Here's some videos using crappy single product MS & a cold water rinse, these even show the 'wet effect' of how a prespray can make a fabric appear more dirty
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZU4x8IlG88
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwMCgt-QhXY
This is hilarious to me as u know your stuff in general yet your so wrong here ...
This was a auto garage owners house , the garage is on the premises . He and his son use this TV room on a coffee break and sit down with the black overalls and watch a bit of the news .
Thats why its evenly black .... your wet illusion wouldn't work well on this fabric .
The armrest is clean , that upper corner is the last bit to do . The couch in the background is still dirty .
What an excellent explanation of why it's So incredibly, evenly soiled,
I invite everyone to look again at the photo and make thier own decision.
Johns explanation is a dirty mechanic sat on this chair and his dirty overalls evenly touched every single inch of the cushion, he did'nt just sit on it he spent as much time arching his back completely over the cushion so the very top is as soiled as the middle would be from normal usage
my explanation is it has been evenly pre sprayed, which naturally darkens the fabric
I'm happy for everyone to make their own decision :)
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4 litres of Dynamall = £32.40 inc vat.
2.5 litres = £2000 in September and the same again in December so hardly worth bothering making my own concoction.
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John - you say the couch in the background is still dirty. Well that proves Mike's point really as its a completely different shade to the wet dirty one.
As regards agitation - everything works better with it, i am yet to find anything you just spray on and leave without it - best results come with agitation whatever you use. And of course there is mechanical agitation even for upholstery so my arms don't ache and i am probably less knakered than you doing a 3ps as i use a Drimaster!!
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PS - gotta go now - still got another 2 jobs to do after this mornings 3ps and carpet job.
Weird how i have work booked in when i mainly use MS and it doesnt clean things!!
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Here is an example of the 'wet effect'
the top picture is when the fabric is untouched, you can see every stain, the bottom picture shows the fabric after prespraying and with half the cushion rinsed, you can see how uniform the uncleaned bit is, it exactly the same across the full fabric this is why it makes a great picture.
But like johns picture it's really the the prespray that makes it look so dark & dirty not the actual dirt you can see in the top picture what real dirt looks like it is patchy not totally even
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1449585954_image.jpeg)
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Another example...
Both the same arm, but the bottom one after prespray and half the arm being rinsed
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1449586586_image.jpg)
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Mike, you must be doing your pics with Nokia 3210 :)
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Nope I do them with my IPhone (the original first edition) then put them into a collage app to resize them and put then into a single Image :) that's why on some the quality is a bit naff
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The camera on the S6 is awesome.
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John
The arguments you bring up for suppliers ripping us off are totally wrong ,the chemists and suppliers offer a service that we all use willingly,it is a expense that in the whole scheme of things is not of any consequences .
I can buy Mpower 5lt , shockwave 15kg and dynamal 5lt for under £200 and under my pricing that's enough product to produce a turnover of £15000 .
It's not worth all the time and arguing you do about it , You should concentrate more on advertising and working as that would have a positive worth.
Im trying to understand your first sentence ... if im complaining about anyone being ripped off its nothing to do with price . Is more how these most basic of ingredient products are portrayed as something new and advanced ... where as a product like Ultimate master / f90 is more chemically sophisticated and a more efficient cleaning tool .
' I should concentrate on advertising ' ? whats that got to do with it . anyway i don't need more advertising ... i need a day off . I clean couches and they tell their friends ' he made it like new ' and the friends all pester me to get it done ... im pestered
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John - you say the couch in the background is still dirty. Well that proves Mike's point really as its a completely different shade to the wet dirty one.
As regards agitation - everything works better with it, i am yet to find anything you just spray on and leave without it - best results come with agitation whatever you use. And of course there is mechanical agitation even for upholstery so my arms don't ache and i am probably less knakered than you doing a 3ps as i use a Drimaster!!
The ' black ' chair im cleaning is one of the two armchairs in front of the tv ... the couch is against the wall and lesser used hence any colour difference .
Of course i agitate , i just dont spend long at it ... spray citrus pre-spray , quick scrub with brush , and start .
Drimaster ... if there is another thing that would contribute to lesser result on filthy suite it must be a drimaster .... i perfer a flushmaster
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John does have a point regarding MS products. They don't seem to give that "wow" factor once you've cleaned the sofa/carpet. Yes, its clean and the customer is happy BUT its never a "bright" / "vibrant" outcome.
Used MS products in the passed and was never happy with them. Recently bought Pureclean and DFC to try it again, but they seem to fall short in my experience.
Also, cleaners like Mike have the advantage of running a TM with its bigger flow, higher constant heat and more suction, so can get away with a weaker pre-spray.
Just my findings. I buy all my products from suppliers apart from two items. Just don't rate MS products too highly.