Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike Osbourne on May 13, 2006, 08:06:36 pm
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Hello everyone,
My name is Mike and I found this site a couple of days ago (at 3am) and it has pretty much made my mind up to go for it. I got made redundant in january and have been at my wits end as the average job in weston super mare north somerset seems to be around £12k :'(
I've read a lot and initially I thought I'd start cheap with 2nd hand kit or maybe the Alltec package cos they seem to give the impression they will make you successful if you follow their advice and are a grafter (that's me :) ) However experienced guys seem to think alltec machines can be a bit iffy and not much power so am I right in thinking this plan is sound.
1 get trained (would do NCCA, but no courses for ages), where can I get trained on the CFR kit
2 Buy kit, CFR machine c. £2500? what else do I need apart from machine, chems etc?
3 Do I HAVE to have a van? I don't have any cash left after a machine what are my options, would my Mondeo be a total non starter even for a few months ?
4 marketing, a mate will do some free leaflets, but I will doorknock or whatever I need to do to make it work.
Please respond, you would be doing me a great favour.
Thanks
Mike
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hi mate i actually baught my machine from a guy down your way and he said he just cudnt make it work down there. Not to put you off im sure if anyone trys hard enough with the correct marketting it can work.
I found a van pretty much essential but im a bit of a weed and roll my machine into my van
You can pick up a suzuki super carry quite cheap these days very cheap to insure and tun.
Ashbys i find are a great supplier
Any questions mate email me at keenerkleaner@fsmail.net
im not that experienced but will try and help ya, u are in the right place for help and advice tho everyone i freindly and very knowledgable.
regards ray
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Hi Mike, theres an NCCA course in Leicester on the 26th & 27th of May,I dont know if theres any places left with it being short notice but worth a try if you can make it up there, Andy
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good idea to keep over heads low, its tough getting going, don't want to be negitive just that best be prepared. very competitive biz.
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NCCA over rated i manage very well without them.
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The NCCA courses are comprehensive and generic....they do not sell products but will give you knowledge on all types of equipment (machines and chemicals) carpets, upholstery fabrics.
You will learn a lot... this will give you more confidence to go out there and do the job.
You only have to read these boards to see the diverse ideas and comments ..very often contradictary... you need sound basic knowledge from the outset....go on a course
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i'never never been on NCCA course either, like spick and span i've got on just fine too.
theres no real need, it wont determine your success not by a long shot,
keep the dosh. you'll need it.
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Craig & spik n span, how do you suggest he learns how to clean carpets?
MIke
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NCCA IS A MUST people are becoming aware of these trade bodies. last three jobs i have had are from the ncca web link.
Just to mention about starting up I bought a speedster from woodbridge was given a very good discount. 450 psi and two heaters that get very hot . cfm is very good. well built and tidy it is very good value for the money. i bought it as a back up to the t/m but feel it would hold its own as a main machine
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Hi Mike when i started back in 1992 i bought a Prochem machine and that included a FREE course.
Like many machine manufactures they will give you some FREE training NCCA and other like those to me just want your money you will be far better keeping it in your pocket as you will need it, when i started many guys said you wont have made it until you have traded for about seven years and it sure seems true.
Also dont let the advertising run away with you monitor ALL work and find where it comes from, I wasted lots of money on useless adverts and flyers.
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NCCA course will give you a good insight and show you the do's and dont's. It is worth going on the courses to meet other carpet cleaners some of which have been in the industry a long time. Just speaking to them about what systems they use, techniques etc is very educational. Its a goldmine of info.
I would get a van its really hardwork trying to get the gear in and out of a car. Looks more professional as well.
Buy 2nd hand gear all my machines were bought 2nd hand it will save you thousands. Some people find out cc isn't for them and sell their starter kits which have hardly been used. Check the used equipment section on this forum.
Best of luck
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Here we go again if its not witch is the best machine its is the NCCA any good or not. I have been on my own for about 12 yrs and am not in the NCCA that does not mean i never would be as i feel there could be potential benefits, and have the utmost respect for Paul Pearce who i have known for a long time
However i do beleave the vast magorety of the puplic have no idea about
trade organisations and if you asked them what the NCCA was or stood for
they understandably would not know or care. Ok it might be up to us to tell them but would they still care ?
TAke Care John
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Spot on John................... Spot on ;)
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Hi mike
I hope you go down the route of training as I believe it is essential, I went with the NCCA but had been cleaning carpets for about 5 years first, but some people do say it a bit intensive when first starting, but dont be missled into thinking you will gain a lot of work from them as you live in area similar to me and have to push yourself hard as the phone dont just ring, people in the non city like communities dont look for carpet cleaners much, they need a little encouraging, but the technical advice even after care advice is priceless.
as for chemicals, I personaly stick with one main supplier as it's easy to build a good relashionship with them and push for discount, but I have solutions probably from them all which I use regulary, it's personal choice, use the ones that work for you, and ask for samples first.
As for the car, mmm id push for a van if you can as you do need to come accross professional and a sign written van works wonders, your first year counts as this is when your buiding your reconition and reputation,
a good uniform works well too just got my new shirts in, black and orange, my logo on breast, NCCA on left collor and Hydramster on the other fully imbroydered £19 each will post some pics and details if I can get the time
If your keen to start learning have a look at this EBook, it was posted here a while ago, I havent had time to look at it but it's apparently quite good, it will give you a head start http://web.archive.org/web/20010428061322/http://members.nbci.com/uphcleaner/
James
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Hi Mike,
In answer to your questions, here's my advice for what it's worth:
1. Training
Look into the NCCA, IICRC, or get a free training course with your machine. Don't start without training first.
2. Machine and equipment
As a distributor of CFR machines I probably shouldn't say this, but spending £2500 on a machine if you're on a tight budget would be madness!
All you need is a decent, reliable entry level machine (at least 2 vacs + 100psi pump). A more expensive machine won't clean better, only faster (a good operator with a 100psi machine will clean just as well as a good operator with a £20,000 truck mount. It will just take him longer!).
3. Van
In terms of space, you might be able to fit what you need inside a car. However, it may be harder to get people to hire you if you don't have a van. It doesn't need to be new, just clean and tidy.
4. Marketing
Leaflets and door knocking are very good ways to get work without spending a lot. A good distributor may be able to advise you on what other low cost marketing you can use. Also do a search on this forum.
Don't expect to make much money to start with though, it will take time to build up, but the rewards are there if you get it right.
Hope that's helpful,
Matt
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(a good operator with a 100psi machine will clean just as well as a good operator with a £20,000 truck mount. It will just take him longer!).
;D ;D are you trying to wind some people up today Matt
hows the new office and stores going, got any newsletters to post out yet ???
James
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Imagine a plumber coming to your door in a mondeo, old tatty tools, not the right tools for the job, no insurance, no offical training, no real confidence in what hes doing, not a member of any trade body, no uniform.
Now how would your wife, mother, grandmother feel? Confident, entrusting, comfortable, willing to refer you? I dont think so. 95% of your jobs will be to women in the domestic market.
You need to start as you mean to go on. Become a businessman not a carpet cleaner.
I predict that when the NCCA introduces the new standard for carpet cleaning those who are members will be cleaning up the market. Those who dont see the value in the NCCA will be losing out big time.
Mark
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Rubbish Mark rubbish as the man said mrs house wife will never have heard of them???????? the only people who make money from NCCA is NCCA that is my personal word.
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Type the words 'carpet cleaner' or 'carpet cleaning' into Google and what do you get? That's what makes the NCCA membership fee more attractive than it used to be in my opinion.
Membership aside, the training is undeniably good.
It will be interesting what effect, if any, the new standard for carpet cleaning will have. How will Mrs Housewife know about it?
Matt
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I made this point a while ago about the NCCA needing to market to the customer and not us,
If they do that then it would be worth doing, Not even 1% of my Customers know about the NCCA or care.
Training is excellent and Paul Pearce is top but other than the training they just dont offer enough.
Everyone knows about Corgi for Plumbing and heating, Thats why I would use them because I know they are there. Nobody has heard of the NCCA except us.
NCCA needs to improve it profile to the public
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Spick and span
All the Directors of the NCCA donate their time and pay the same subscription rates as the rest of the members.
In essence they subsidise the NCCA
I don't know where you get the idea that the NCCA are making vast amounts of money from but you are totally misguided... The NCCA revenue covers the operating costs and goes towards promoting carpet/upholstery cleaning...you may not think that they do anything but that is so far from the truth also.
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Mark what is this new standard??? please explain
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Not sure of the exact details but it is a code of practice for carpet cleaning to british standards so i believe. So the customer knows with confidence you cleaning her carpet to an accepted standard.
It makes no difference if your customers dont know who the NCCA are as its up to you to use your membership as a selling point by expaining the benefits to them. I wish some of you guys and your attitudes where my competitors as my life would be so much easier.
Think about it.
Mark
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Hi Mike, Welcome.
I too am planning to start up shortly and also on a tight budget. My advice to you is don't commit to any machine/brand till you have hung around a while, looked at the many companys about or spoken to local cleaners. When I first started looking into a machine everytime I got info sent through from another company I was sold on that one ;D Now I've narrowed it down to a couple, If you want I'll email you all the company websites that I've looked into regarding machines, also consider factors such as location of supplier. Through this board I get great advice both on the forum and email and one company in particular gives plenty of excellent advice and has offered a machine demo
My main concentration at the moment is marketing, A very important factor, just search the boards for great advice and don't be afraid to ask, everyone is helpfull and it's a laugh when they start arguing between themselves, It's usually the case that these guys are agreeing about something totally different on another thread ;D Again through this board I've been sent some brilliant samples of flyers and made some great contacts/mentors who seem to always have time for my queries
Personally as far as training goes for me I plan to do a hands on course as soon as I can afford it, Then I'd like to get either NCCA or IICRC not only because I believe you need to know the theory behind c/c but I believe it looks good to firms when marketing especially commercial. Also when I first joined this board a very nice guy offered to take me out with his organisation and show me the ropes so hopefully I'll be able to take him up on this offer soon.
As I have no cash yet and my full business depends on selling my vw campervan I just read read read old posts on here,print them out and ask if I'm unsure about out. I got myself a craftex manual from www.restormate.co.uk and registered with shell live wire a business starting company, free advice and tools, This way I'm always working on my planned business and hopefully will get it right
I'm hoping to be able to afford a second hand van out of my vw sale and an old mate of mine (soon to be rekindled ;D) Sprays vehicles and is a dab hand at graphics so I'll have him tidy it up and personalise it, I've seen a few on autotrader.co.uk around my price.
I wish you all the luck mate and I can't offer much help but what I can is yours
Andy
p.s. Make sure to check out the shell live wire, on a c.d. they send out to you there is a comprehensive list of many organisations that will help you start up, Many offer grants for starting up a business after redundancy. I can also email you this list if you want.
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mark,
you say use NCCA as a selling point, my work comes with no competition, so if i told them all about NCCA were would that get me i get the job,
if i never mentioned NCCA i get the job.
i can see in y/p it may help. but for me, now, i could go on till blue in the face about NCCA it would make no difference to my work load.
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Thanks for all the advice guys, really appreciated, some things are clearer in my mind now, some are a little more confused. ???
I must do some training, I know absolutely nothing currently, I will however start reading that ebook. The next two NCCA courses are booked up but I've seen another one with a CFR dist, although I'm starting to revert back to my 2nd hand kit option and get a van.
There also seems to be doubt as to whether my location will support my needs and what's this 7 years to get established, does that mean make a profit or the phone ring regularly from a customer base?
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Mark
I come accross a number of NCCA mebers when quoting and dont not find that they have a advantage over me in my area.
What sells my business is the testamonials that i get all my customers to complete. I even give them copies so they can contact customers. This is as good as referals and certainly better than being a member of the NCCA as it stands at the moment. The one thing I do miss is the information about changes to the cleaning business that they provide which is of a very high standard.
If they are going to link into the BSI then that would be good but the criteria for this will be very high and it wont be just about the cleaning. In one of my past jobs I used to be Quality Control Manager for an IT company and to get the acreditation you had to do some serious work with loborious amounts of paper work. If the NCCA have found a way round this then it would be worth joining but they still have to get the customers involved and know who they are and why they should use a NCCA Member. A CC saying this is like saying I am the best cleaner in the area, it means nothing to the customer at the moment because they dont no who they are.
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Mike, best of luck mate with whatever you chose to do. Just be carful when making the choice on a machine to get. Each and all have their good and bad points so weigh them up and whatever machine ends up on top maybe you should look into a bit more....... Off the subject but to what is also being talked about..............About the N.C.C.A......... Paul Pearce and many of the people to do with the company have my utmost respect for the time and effort they put in to help not only ourselves but to the industry. However and I must say that I am hugely dissappointed with what it is they do. I must admit that at 250 pounds a year for a free magazine I think is a little steep. I would rather pay thousands and get a service. Maybe their hands are tied but as you know I deal with very high end people and companies and they havent heard of the N.C.C.A. I would like to see them somehow educate the public and suppliers of what it is that they do and what it is that we do. I am not saying that the I.I.C.R.C. is any better but during the last year they have referred me to 3 designers of which supply me with many clients. In comparison I havent heard a peep out of the N.C.C.A. On the whole I know that the general public dont have an idea about either but I try to get my prospective clients to look for themselves on both web sites. Of course I am on both sites but that is the whole idea. Sorry to sop box on here but the subject was sort of being talked about...... Again I have nothing against Paul or anyone to do with and the N.C.C.A. I just want more from them, maybe I want too much??? Best, Dave.......
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For what its worth i've been c/c for over ten years and never done any training, but have actually decided to do the ncca course in may, ::)
I think these organizations are going to have more and more meaning as time goes by and i've actually had customers ask if i'm a member just recently, and i think as you move your business up a gear it can be useful to have these trade bodies behind you, if not only to command a bit more respect and charge a bit more money ;D
regards
steve
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Dave,
I have had the opposite experience! Enquiries via the NCCA that have easily paid for membership, but I've never had one enquiry via the IICRC. :( :(
I did ask myself whether it was worth paying the IICRC subs this year! If I don't get anything this year I will seriously consider not renewing next year.
I know IICRC are big in the US, but what exactly DO the IICRC do in the UK? No newsletters, no referrals, no enquiries, no percieved advertising etc!! :-\ :-\
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Martin, although we have had different experiences with each of the organizations I agree entirely with what it is you are saying. Also I know the I.I.C.R.C. are more to do with the states....... My point is and I hope I will be proved wrong in due course is that at least the I.I.C.R.C. trys to educate the public as to the need for carpets to be cleaned and are involved with the manufacturers of carpeting be it at present as far as I know in the states. Again I have nothing against the N.C.C.A. just want more from them. Where I used to work in California carpet suppliers would introduce their customers to the I.I.C.R.C. so that when needed at least the customer of thiers would have a better chance of finding a better cleaner as opposed to the bait and switchers. This was brought on by the I.I.C.R.C. inviting carpet suppliers to attend a carpet cleaning course so that they in turn could pass on some sort of better knowledge to the customer. At least at this point the customer would know that they need their carpets cleaned once a year if not more and that it would be best to find an I.I.C.R.C. member to do so. I would like to see the same or similar from the N.C.C.A........... Last thing as to the question of what do the I.I.C.R.C. do here in England. They do run courses that are respected world wide. As an I.I.C.RC. member I was automatically "allowed" into the N.C.C.A. whereas the N.C.C.A. is only respected here. Not that that is a bad thing but more for a point. For those who do look at credentials which I know is a very few then all you can do with the I.I.C.R.C. which is actualy a great deal, far outweighs what it is the N.C.C.A. can offer. Hopfully this will soon change. Best, Dave.
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Hi guys, I agree that training is paramount but In 5 years I have only been asked 3 times if I belong to a trade organisation ;) and I still booked 2 of them!!
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Hi
I have recently come back into carpet cleaning after a years break, I have been established before that for 11 years. The only way to suceed is through hard work and determination, there is work out there you have to get out and get it. Everyday I am not carpet cleaning I am out meeting poss contacts leafleting, putting up leaflets in shops, just generally being seen around. this is my 3rd week back and I have a £700 profit week!
I am now going to re build my old database and send out letters saying I am around, yuo need to find parish magazines as well. You must go where no other carpet cleaner goes and attack the market.
Dont get me wrong I have friends in the industry local to me but they are competitors as well, I have kids to feed etc but we do work together if ones sick we help out !
So if you are starting drop leaflets, and be a business man its all about marketing and selling yourself then the job, but do get trainning or go with a carpet cleaner for a week for free I am sure someone will offer.
If you came to Norfolk you could work with me not just on cleaning but on marleting as well.
Its now 4.57am and Im off to my first job £150! should be finished by 11 then onto the next!
I would not swap it to work for anyone else again!
Cheers
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Just to pick up on several points...
IICRC is a Certification Board NOT a Trade Association. it's shareholders are the various US Trade Associations plus two Associations in Australia and of course the NCCA here in the UK.
The NCCA do deal with carpet Manufacturers and are currently involved in promotional schemes with two of them.
The NCCA are working on the Carpet Cleaning PAS 86 together with BSI, this will be a Code of Practice for the Industry.
PAS (Publically Available Specification) is currently in draft form and will be reviewed by a steering committee in June.. Once it has been put into shape it will go to and industry Review Board....it should finally be ready for publication in October of this year.
It will be made available to all specifically manufacturers, retailers, Trading Standards, Insurance Companies and your customers.
Recently the NCCA website has been revamped to make it easier to circumnavigate.. it is currently being used more and more with requests for technical information from members of the public, magazine and other media (radio and TV) researchers.
Several of you comment on the NCCA's aparent lack of promotion...I would like to draw your attention to your own marketing...look at the poor return from leaflets, yellow pages adverts etc.
The NCCA do a great deal of promotional work but we cannot make people read...you would be amazed how quickly they make contact seeking NCCA advice when something goes wrong though.
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Derek, thanks for your post and more to the point I was glad to hear what is in the near future going to happen. With regards your comment on our own marketing but in this case obviously just mine, I wouldnt ever use leaflets or yellow pages for I think are obvious reasons. My concern that I touched on earlier is that I think no one but I will say almost no one that I deal with have heard of the N.C.C.A. I deal with 2 huge suppliers of commercial carpets and also architects, designers and the like. .... Again just a thought that if they new about the N.C.C.A. wouldnt life be so much easier for us as carpet cleaners and I feel this way the public would be more aware of "us" in general....... But as I said I am glad to hear of what it is that they are doing. Best, Dave.
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Talking of the IIRCR`, I did hear rumours, that not in the too distant future, any undertaking of c/c on commercial premises," were certain manufactures have given warrenties on their carpets" the cleaning of the said carpets, must be carried out by a c/c who has a IICRC certificate, otherwise the warranty becomes void!!! something to bear in mind for the future, if this is the case
Geoff
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Geoff, this is certainly true in the states, it would be a good thing if it happened here. Best, Dave.
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Mike,
Make sure you do a hands on course , not a theory based.
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Ian,
Sure thing, I see cleansmart offer a IIRC 1 day with a machine. Does anyone know whether this would be adequate? The site suggested the two day jobby would be a bit much for a newbie.
Also their CFR machines are £500 more than Amtech. Both companies are about same distance away but amtech seem less helpful to newbies, just supply kit and tech supp?
As I'm sat on my chuff, I'd gladly work a couple of days for nowt if I could get a feel for the business. Keen to go door knocking too. ;)
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Hi Mike,
The IICRC course is a two day course, there is also a one day 'hands-on' course you might find more useful if you don't have any experience.
Amtech's prices don't include wand (£430) and hoses (£290)!
Hope that's helpful,
Matt
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Matt,
Thanks. Yeah a thought there might be extras, cleansmart include the one day for 'free' and I'v just downloaded some of their marketing ideas 'neighbour nudger' good stuff.
Cheers for the recent replies, i am digesting it all.... slowly.
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No probs Mike,
Here's another tip, always check out the signature at the bottom of each post - it could be anyone giving you advise!
Cheers,
Matt
Cleansmart ;D
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::) I'll get me coat. ;)
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Mike,
I personally think two day IIcRC course would be wrong won.
Some say the NCCA course needs to be more ands on.
Besides Cleansmart ,Ashbys ,Alltec Prochem ,and Extracta do hands on type courses which are often included if you buy a new machine.
But you can still attend if you want to find out about carpet cleaning or have a secondhand machine
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just like to say the free 'niegbour nudger' from cleansmart is a good idea and well written, ;D
i think it will work, i'll be trying it myself soon.
you can pay for marketing stuff thats not that good.
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Just an update and to thank everybody for their contribution.
I have now secured a refurbished Ninja and will be attending a hands on, technical/theory and marketing course for 3 days at Ashbys!
Now have a budget of £2k for a van and looking at Vauxall combo (really wanted a Berlingo :'( but hey ho)
Need to do all the standard company set up stuff, but keen to get going as soon as get back from course.
Thinking of a leaflets + doorstepping strategy for a jump start with a two rooms, one free offer.
I've checked the YP and there is only 1 company in weston, but there are about 20 in the surrounding towns, Bristol being the main one. Not sure if this is good or bad, my view is it's what I do that counts in the end.
Cheers
Mike
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Dont want to put a downer on things for you Mike but if your talking about Weston super mare I know of 8 carpet cleaners in the town, but your right it's what you do and what your goals are, if your happy just making a wage, which a lot are then they are of no concern to you but the ones that want to be a success and own a fleet of truck mounts they are your competition, but remember also that not all cc's use HWE so this helps too
James
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Thanks James,
I know it's going to be tough, but it has to work. I will keep on knocking on doors, testing different approaches until I start getting yeses. I've never had anyone door knock me for CC ever, and I've never seen a leaflet either (to be fair though until recently it would be off the radar).
If I can make £250 a week initially that would be enough to survive, but I'd be planning on £1000 long term.
Whilst I will try this 3mile radius concept. I could always pop up to more affluent parts of Bristol and surrounding towns. If can try letting agents guest homes, old peoples homes.
I'm also training in something else, but I'm 6 months away from qualifying and practicing.