Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dave f on November 30, 2015, 11:53:16 am
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lately ive noticed a few more new wfp vans and trolley users around were I work of late and I think one or 2 are guys out of town looking at there contact numbers, it seems that to me if you have a wfp system you increase your work load so have to spread out further a field its gonna get to saturation point there will be less and less traders I was asked the other day if I would start doing a semi simply because the old windy could not get to the window over the conny and with a lot of 3 story town houses going up it will be harder to get new accounts in some areas if you are a trader me thinks. I think time will tell
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Everywhere I go it's WFP these days the local villages might have the odd trad cleaner but on the whole even if they still work trad most of them have a trolley or backpack of some kind,any way you look at it it's getting away from ladders whether it be for H&S or speed. There's no escaping it the truth is it's more profitable and safer way to work.
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While WFP outnumbers trad cleaners on here, in the real world there are more trad than WFP - in our area Norfolk broads it's about 4 trad to every 1 WFP - the biggest difference I see between the 2 is the majority of WFP work from a van of which 90% are sign written where all but 2 trad windies work from car, push bike or walk ( not a single one has any form of sign writing )
Yes I've seen an increase in WFP - some were trad cleaners but most new to window cleaning the trad cleaners I know are not interested in spending out to go WFP even a guy who's knees are totally shot, if this winter is long and bad I wager that February will see a huge amount of equipment on fleabay
Darran
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Wfp will render trad obsolete, eventually. Well. ladder work at least.
But I think something will supersede wfp, in time. There's got to be something easier than carting all that water about.
Maybe something that recycles the water (or some of it).
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a few local trad guys i know who have been going at least 10 years or more have been chatting to me about wfp and thinking of "giving it a go".
im absolutely streets ahead of these guys.ive been wfp nearly 6 years now and have learned an awful lot from frequenting this forum and real day to day work experience using WFP.
its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.
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a few local trad guys i know who have been going at least 10 years or more have been chatting to me about wfp and thinking of "giving it a go".
im absolutely streets ahead of these guys.ive been wfp nearly 6 years now and have learned an awful lot from frequenting this forum and real day to day work experience using WFP.
its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.
Spot on
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a few local trad guys i know who have been going at least 10 years or more have been chatting to me about wfp and thinking of "giving it a go".
im absolutely streets ahead of these guys.ive been wfp nearly 6 years now and have learned an awful lot from frequenting this forum and real day to day work experience using WFP.
its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.
I have a lot to thank this forum for too!!
In the areas I work I would say trad out numbers wfp.
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the more wfp users the less work they will be simply because you are getting through your work quickly as I found out so to fill the day I went out canvasing to fill in the gaps and now I have more work than you can shake a stick at but having said that were I live there as been a couple of guys switch to wfp so they are catching up, one imparticular as copied my details of my van all most to the letter except for the name.which psses me of because I get asked by my customers have I got some one else working for me >:(
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i know of over 20 laddermen around here,2 pole polishers and a couple of lads doing both
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its defo on the increase but theres still a lot of trad guys out there.most dont have the money to invest in wfp though and are fearful of making the change/learning a different way of cleaning due to fear of losing customers.
Money and what the customers might think are the two things I hear most as well.
As far as money goes, it's true that many will need to take on some debt to make the switch. Initially, there probably won't be extra turnover to service that debt - indeed, some will lose a few customers. So there is an initial period of gettig used to WFP which can mean going slower at first. The good bit comes a bit later when the speed comes. At one point, some years ago, I had a six-weekly round that I was servicing in three and a half weeks. The mistake I made was in filling much of that gap with subcontracted commercial (and some residential) work rather than getting my own work.
I also hear some worrying about what the customers will think. This is only valid if the customers act upon those thoughts. I lost a few jobs over it. I also experienced a higher number of mystery cancellations than normal. It can take a while to start getting work BECAUSE OF WFP. It happens fairly regularly now though.
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Most established windy's that I have seen about and spoken to are predominately wfp but can still trad. Then there are a few trad that do it for pin money as a stop gap whilst in between jobs etc. Or in my wifes case that hired a window cleaner donky years ago in between getting locked up or being on the run. Needless to say he wasn’t all that regular ;D
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to say guys who do trad dont have much money is laughable.i know of one guy all trad work who has had a business over 40 years and could show all every one of us how to run a business very well.
WFP guys sometimes think they are a step above the normal trad guy
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Wfp will render trad obsolete, eventually. Well. ladder work at least.
But I think something will supersede wfp, in time. There's got to be something easier than carting all that water about.
Maybe something that recycles the water (or some of it).
I'd agree with that, bloody mad carrying 650l of water about and chucking twice as much down the drain - almost a backward step, environmentalists would have a field day knowing how much drinking water gets thrown at the windows.
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to say guys who do trad dont have much money is laughable.
I didn't notice anyone saying that. Some do very well working that way. I believe that most would do even better with WFP.
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why you would run up and down a ladder is beyond me when there is an alternative and a chance to make more money more safely and dare I say quicker after all we are all in this game to make as much as we can why risk your neck. I can see this go off topic
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why you would run up and down a ladder is beyond me when there is an alternative and a chance to make more money more safely and dare I say quicker after all we are all in this game to make as much as we can why risk your neck. I can see this go off topic
Yep so can I as is already turning into trad vs wfp which has been done to death already. ;D
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There's a couple of big employers in my area and they are both traditional, one has about 25 employees and I think they
work in squads of about 5, they can do an average semi in around a minute so that's about 5mins per property wage wise
cant see them being in a rush to convert to wfp any time soon.
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There are a lot of trad window cleaners where I am,I even know one who doesn't drive and he will never change nearly all of the old skool window cleaners are and will remain trad where I live.
I think for new starters it's there first port of call it's fairly cheap to set up and easier to learn than trad.
Forget the health and safety and the speed aspect for a minute but there is a hell of a lot of wfp window cleaners that can't trad and are scarred of heights.
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Not scared of heights, just don't like hitting the ground at 50 mph !!
Darran
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Not scared of heights, just don't like hitting the ground at 50 mph !!
Darran
;D
As they say the falling bit is easy but the sudden stop at the end hurts like hell
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why wouldent you want to earn more safely its a no brainer.
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Not scared of heights, just don't like hitting the ground at 50 mph !!
Darran
Not the point I was trying to make.no one wants to or should get hurt at work.
Years ago before wfp took off and 90% of window cleaners you saw used ladders I use to regularly get comments like "I could never do your job I hate heights"
Now people who would have never got in to this job are hence why we are seeing more and more wfp window cleaners.
The die hard old school trad window cleaners will mostly never change the way they work they have been working that way for years and for them this works very well.eventually they will die off and with most new starters going the wfp route this method will soon be the most recognised method we see.
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There's defo more market traders round our way than wfp window cleaners . Why the comparison .?
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Depends on the area down south there are loads of WFP cleaners now days,the houses are to big in some cases to even consider ladders these days.
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Plenty of what I call noddy town 3 storey houses of all sizes springing up everywhere. Not to mention 3/4 storey residential flats too that most trad guys would not want to do.
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I think we have tuned this in to 2 topics .
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What this thread should be is how many window cleaners out there still haven't spotted there is an easier way to earn money from cleaning windows,when I've chatted to them and delved a bit deeper into there situation it's all boiled down to the same thing happy plodding on can't be bothered my customers wouldn't go for that pole thing it doesn't work,I've given up trying to convince trad cleaners you should hear what most of them think about us polers lol
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What this thread should be is how many window cleaners out there still haven't spotted there is an easier way to earn money from cleaning windows,when I've chatted to them and delved a bit deeper into there situation it's all boiled down to the same thing happy plodding on can't be bothered my customers wouldn't go for that pole thing it doesn't work,I've given up trying to convince trad cleaners you should here what most of them think about us polers lol
The irony NWH is most wfp users use to be trad ladder monkeys as well ;D
Most you will find have either taken a fall and/or have health issues that promted them to try wfp method instead.
It's a bit like darwin's theroy of evolution I suppose.
rag monkey
squeege monkey
squegee pole monkey
stick wagling peeing monkey
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I used to be myself this is he main reason why I can't see why given any excuse you wouldn't want to switch even if was done gradually,the pole dosent do a good job or the customers won't like it is pure nonsense it's the main reason why they are still traddin excuse after excuse because it requires effort to make the switch and it means your going out of your picking the kids up at 1-00 comfort zone. the vast majority might as well hold there hands up and say TBH quiet honest with you I can't be bothered with the hassle mate I'm quiet happy slagging it off trying to put the general public off it so I keep all my work I'm happy with.
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the vast majority might as well hold there hands up and say TBH quiet honest with you I can't be bothered with the hassle mate I'm quiet happy slagging it off trying to put the general public off it so I keep all my work I'm happy with.
Does that bother you?
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In no way does that bother me but the thing is why don't they just say that instead of saying it does a crap job or it's just lazy not climbing ladders,do some people want a medal for climbing up down up down ladders all day long it just makes me laugh. I'm my experience the ones I've talked to and I've talked to some trad cleaners,all of them say they've thought about it and then say naaaaaaahh think I'll stay as I am I clean Windows the proper way I do lol
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How many do you hear say sod this pole thing I'm going back up a ladder from next week,I've never heard anyone doing that.
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In no way does that bother me but the thing is why don't they just say that instead of saying it does a crap job or it's just lazy not climbing ladders,do some people want a medal for climbing up down up down ladders all day long it just makes me laugh. I'm my experience the ones I've talked to and I've talked to some trad cleaners,all of them say they've thought about it and then say naaaaaaahh think I'll stay as I am I clean Windows the proper way I do lol
So it does bother you ;D.
I suspect they don't like an alternative to the way they work. And I suspect many wfp users don't like an alternative to the way they work.
Neither camp wants to change so they knock the other and just hope it goes away.
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How many do you hear say sod this pole thing I'm going back up a ladder from next week,I've never heard anyone doing that.
cant remember his name but a lad on here from sheffield did
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I'm not knocking them the way they work I worked like it myself for a long time,a better easier method came along I took it end of,my point is most of them don't want to change because they don't want to put the effort in to making there life simpler-easier in my experience of talking to them. Bit like saying I bike 20 miles a day to work just to keep fit when really they don't want to fork out for a car eh.
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Well there you go that's the first I've heard of it.
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How many do you hear say sod this pole thing I'm going back up a ladder from next week,I've never heard anyone doing that.
cant remember his name but a lad on here from sheffield did
birdymiller srings to mind
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I'm not knocking them the way they work I worked like it myself for a long time,a better easier method came along I took it end of,my point is most of them don't want to change because they don't want to put the effort in to making there life simpler-easier in my experience of talking to them. Bit like saying I bike 20 miles a day to work just to keep fit when really they don't want to fork out for a car eh.
Mate what planet do you live on ? there's hardly a week goes by on this forum without a post on sore joints neck pain RSI all
caused by WFP, I would convert to traditional cleaning tomorrow if I wasn't afraid of breaking my neck, which by the way
feels as if its broken after a days poling.
WFP is a method of cleaning windows while keeping your feet safely on the ground it has both good and bad points just like traditional cleaning but neither is easy.
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I'm not knocking them the way they work I worked like it myself for a long time,a better easier method came along I took it end of,my point is most of them don't want to change because they don't want to put the effort in to making there life simpler-easier in my experience of talking to them. Bit like saying I bike 20 miles a day to work just to keep fit when really they don't want to fork out for a car eh.
Mate what planet do you live on ? there's hardly a week goes by on this forum without a post on sore joints neck pain RSI all
caused by WFP, I would convert to traditional cleaning tomorrow if I wasn't afraid of breaking my neck, which by the way
feels as if its broken after a days poling.
WFP is a method of cleaning windows while keeping your feet safely on the ground it has both good and bad points just like traditional cleaning but neither is easy.
You're right.
It's a physical job whatever the method.
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Planet earth
999 lets be avenue
Easy street on sea
Back ache -shoulder ache-golfers elbow the lot I wouldn't climb a ladder all day again if I could swap em all m8,the point I'm making is they are full of excuses to why they don't change over,you don't need to have a degree to know it's easier this debate has been done so my times fuelled by trad cleaners who have never switched over who don't know what there talking about. I've nothing against ladder and bucket but I have when they try and tell me how they do it is the only way to clean a window,if your happy carry on that's what life's about but mine is about making it as easy as possible. Nighty night xx
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I'm not knocking them the way they work I worked like it myself for a long time,a better easier method came along I took it end of,my point is most of them don't want to change because they don't want to put the effort in to making there life simpler-easier in my experience of talking to them. Bit like saying I bike 20 miles a day to work just to keep fit when really they don't want to fork out for a car eh.
Mate what planet do you live on ? there's hardly a week goes by on this forum without a post on sore joints neck pain RSI all
caused by WFP, I would convert to traditional cleaning tomorrow if I wasn't afraid of breaking my neck, which by the way
feels as if its broken after a days poling.
WFP is a method of cleaning windows while keeping your feet safely on the ground it has both good and bad points just like traditional cleaning but neither is easy.
Spot on Sean, great reply.
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I'm not knocking them the way they work I worked like it myself for a long time,a better easier method came along I took it end of,my point is most of them don't want to change because they don't want to put the effort in to making there life simpler-easier in my experience of talking to them. Bit like saying I bike 20 miles a day to work just to keep fit when really they don't want to fork out for a car eh.
Mate what planet do you live on ? there's hardly a week goes by on this forum without a post on sore joints neck pain RSI all
caused by WFP, I would convert to traditional cleaning tomorrow if I wasn't afraid of breaking my neck, which by the way
feels as if its broken after a days poling.
WFP is a method of cleaning windows while keeping your feet safely on the ground it has both good and bad points just like traditional cleaning but neither is easy.
Spot on Sean, great reply.
Ladders are banned don't you know ;D
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I can understand people not wanting to make the switch. It can be a lot of hassle early on. It took me a few months to get settled after making it.
I needed finance for a bigger van as an Escort 55 clearly wouldn't be up to it (I didn't want to use backpack+containers).
I had to get set up purifying water, as it isn't possible for me to do it from home (and learn a few new things). Finding a suitable place was tricky.
I printed out a note for each customer informing them of the switch. I made a big mistake on this one by going into too much detail. Lesson learned.
Initially, it took longer getting through my work. There were several reasons for this: Scrubbing top frames; going over some work twice as I was concerned about doing a bad job; being generally slow as I needed to think about each aspect before they became habits.
So the early months after changing can be difficult - both financially and due to the stress of having to change longstanding habits.
It was well worth it though. Even though my outgoings are far higher than with trad, my additional turnover far exceeds those extra expenses - and I'm far less likely to break my neck.
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The above post proves my point here we have someone willing to get off his arse and stopping the excuses and the moaning putting obstacles in the way,he's put in the effort and now sees it makes sense financially and from the safety side of things as well. If I saw the odd WC with a pole I would think that's not catching on but nearly all and I mean 9 out of 10 I see have a pole system are we all wrong then or are we missing a trick somewhere lol,better go gotta pick the kids up at 1-00 lol.
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The above post proves my point here we have someone willing to get off his arse and stopping the excuses and the moaning putting obstacles in the way,he's put in the effort and now sees it makes sense financially and from the safety side of things as well. If I saw the odd WC with a pole I would think that's not catching on but nearly all and I mean 9 out of 10 I see have a pole system are we all wrong then or are we missing a trick somewhere lol,better go gotta pick the kids up at 1-00 lol.
What you need to realise is your opinions are only based on what you see around you, in my area as far as I'm aware
not a single traditional cleaner has converted to the pole.
I got into window cleaning because I seen it as good way of making a half decent living and this was by looking at what traditional guys where earning, I choose to go down the WFP route not because I could make 4 times the money but because
I didn't like the thought of going head first through a patio door while hanging on to my ladder as it slid from under me.
You harping on about it making sense financially and it being easy money is no less silly than a traditional guy harping on about
WFP not cleaning windows properly.
I have properties that I will clean quicker than a traditional cleaner I have other properties that because of faffing about with
problem openers they could be cleaned quicker using traditional methods but overall I would say I'm slightly quicker but
I'm talking about a small percentage money wise when you take in the extra expense of wfp, it certainly wouldn't be enough
to temp me off the ladders if I felt confident working from them.
As with everything in this game it will all depend on what your cleaning and any decent window cleaner will weigh up the pro's and cons.
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Fair play to you Sean you've been honest in your reply,for me and many others it's way way quicker in most cases 3 times quicker on houses we do.
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Fair play to you Sean you've been honest in your reply,for me and many others it's way way quicker in most cases 3 times quicker on houses we do.
Picking your kids up at 1, is that because you don't have any work?
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Try reading back over a few posts m8 I'm talking about some of the other people that say they've done a days work but use the excuse I've got to pick the kids up from school at 1-00 so that's why I have to knock off work lol💤💤
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I think its time to put this topic to bed.
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Ok Dad.
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i see.
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Mod edit. Please be mindful and careful what you're posting
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It's a word the late, lamented cozy used a lot. I miss him :'(