Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: darryn on November 11, 2015, 09:07:39 pm
-
going from trad to reach and clean starting monday coming.Been doing my own windows today with my mate who has been teaching me, he has been doing reach and clean for 3 years.He reckons it takes 3 0r 4 cleans to see true results,when he left they looked great after drying there seems to be a fews runs off transins is this down to washing liquid,be grateful for some advice as i dont want lose work
-
poor clean if u ask me i can get all first cleans up with no runs u can get a bit of lite spoting if there is a lot of soap resdue but if u wash rince all the windows then go bk an just do the glass its to cleans that anouth to get perfect resaults or use ubik2000 sprayed on the brush that helps speed up first cleans u can tell when runs will apear buy looking at the water and how its running down the glass there is a few tell tale signs like small dots of water in a strate line from the top seal they allways dry dirty an leve runs hope this helps
-
In my experience it is extremely rare for a first clean to be bad water fed pole, the "3 cleans until perfect" line is rolled out as an excuse for not giving the clean the extra effort and care required to get it right.
No matter if the windows are minging or look clean, extra scrubbing and rinsing is required, then go back and give a final rinse.
We also treat the frames with a8 TFR ( g101/ubik/etc) to remove old residues
Darran
-
there is a few tell tale signs like small dots of water in a strate line from the top seal they allways dry dirty an leve runs hope this helps
Not always. Sometimes you can reclean and reclean and you'll still get the same line in the same place.
-
ok i will rinse glass a second time just worried i dont make less money when spending more time on job
-
ok i will rinse glass a second time just worried i dont make less money when spending more time on job
You only need to do that on the first clean.
-
ok i will rinse glass a second time just worried i dont make less money when spending more time on job
This will only be the first time round, don't skimp on cleaning the frames - get it right first time, not only will it impress the customers putting them at ease, but make your future cleans a doddle
Agree, you can be left with a line after reclean ing, but this generally is a change to the glass surface from years of water draining out of or dripping off the frame, but knowing when to leave those is down to experience, generally, first clean, first rinse and you have a beading line of droplets it will spot
Darran
-
Jinx ;D
-
will i clean every frame on each house or can i get away with just frame near glass?what going to happen if i dont do all of frames?Its going t take a bit longer shorter day and start of gales and rain,still need to make a good days wage
-
You do all the frame, that's the advantage of WFP cleaning, if your already starting to think about cutting corners, then your really going to end up in a world of hurt, therefore you'd be best staying trad
Darran
-
cheers smudger i will take all advice on board is this for first clean only or everytime mate
-
On your last trad clean you would have been better cleaning all top frames and seals with a cloth, time consuming yes but you would have reaped the benefits on your first wfp clean
-
In my opinion you've chose the wrong time of year to make the switch to wfp. If you have a full round that is.
For me first cleans with wfp take about three times as long as it would to do them traditionally. Then after that I'm about 50% quicker than trad.
So if you've got a full day's work that you do on Ladders, then expect that to take atleast twice as long with Wfp on the first clean. Do a proper job and get it right from the start.
I agree with the above that the "three cleans to get them perfect" is a poor line. If I was the customer I would say.....ok then. I will pay you in three cleans when they are up to standard......
-
Exactly Johnny
Yes clean the frames every time, but from the second clean (esp upvc) they only need a couple of passes
Ps - I would also work with a high flow rate ( this might cause you some issues with water useage, but again experience will bring its own rewards )
Darran
-
I have been doing trad for 25years and got 2 big rounds,problem is i have sciatica at moment been off work for 2 weeks hardly walk just pulling my self round now time to wrap ladders in now,suppose i am going have to get on with it even if i make a few less quid .comes with age i reckon cheers for all help lads
-
When you say big rounds ?
How many do you do a day trad, how many days a week do you clean, what cycle are they on?
Darran
-
I have 5 days work for 2 men doing on average 170 to 200 per day on good day 5 hours work on fortnightly bases
-
Oh!
Not wanting to sound like/come across a t@$$€r - that to me is very low !
You may not need to continue fortnight lay cleans with WFP - but that's upto you and your buisness model
If this helps, two men should be able to do 15 to 18 minging first cleans in a day typical semi (3 windows plus door to front couple on the side same at rear with the odd one having a conny)
On regular cleaning 35 to 40 can be achieved cleaning 8am to 3pm
Hope this helps
Darran
-
i suppose it depends on price of houses and size of house dont forget a live in newcastle area my houses arnt the best priced mate
-
Understood, hence why I've tried to direct it to qty and sizes at least that way I may be able to give an indication of what you could achieve
Darran
-
cheers for help nice to hear from different lads
-
Oh!
Not wanting to sound like/come across a t@$$€r - that to me is very low !
You may not need to continue fortnight lay cleans with WFP - but that's upto you and your buisness model
If this helps, two men should be able to do 15 to 18 minging first cleans in a day typical semi (3 windows plus door to front couple on the side same at rear with the odd one having a conny)
On regular cleaning 35 to 40 can be achieved cleaning 8am to 3pm
Hope this helps
Darran
The work would have to be very compact to achieve that and the houses of the small new build variety. In our case taking an average including all types of houses we'd do 25ish. I do think if we had one of those new build estates we could achieve your numbers though.
-
ok i will rinse glass a second time just worried i dont make less money when spending more time on job
First time around your work may take longer than usual. This may happen second time around too while you hone your methods, replace the less practical work (e.g. down long walkways, linked-detached jobs that need a climb over flat roofs etc.) and build up your speed with confidence in your methods.
-
With any new customers I always clean the glass and frames twice on the 1st clean, it takes longer obviously but I never get any complaints. Also when I changed from trad , I did the upstairs only with wfp for a couple of times and squeegee'd the ground floor just to keep the customers settled. it seemed to work, I only lost 2 customers. Hope that helps. :)
-
I have 5 days work for 2 men doing on average 170 to 200 per day on good day 5 hours work on fortnightly bases
Is that 2 men working together turning over £170 - £200 a day total..?
-
I have 5 days work for 2 men doing on average 170 to 200 per day on good day 5 hours work on fortnightly bases
Is that 2 men working together turning over £170 - £200 a day total..?
That's how I read it.
No compact work, well I wouldn't call it that just groups of 3 to 5 in a road, then a few more a minute drive away etc....
The qty does vary depending on the village and house styles, we tend to measure by £/ph turnover, but rarely does a single man have less than 18 cleans and two man crew less than 28 unless it's a quiet day
Darran
-
Basically what's already been said.
Don't skimp on a first clean. Think of it as an 'investment' in time; getting it really clean now will save you time in the future.
If you're worried about cost versus time, then just up the price for the first clean (it's going to take longer so it cost more). Custys are usually pretty good with that. Up your flow rate and give those frames a good scrub. I tend to clean the windows 3 times on a first clean.
1. Whilst i'm scrubbing the frames I also go over the window fairly roughly at the same time. Usually you can see the dirty water running off.
2. When i've cleaned the frame, I then clean the window and rinse.
3. Then, when i've done a whole upstairs (front and back) I'll go over the glass again (fairly quickly) missing the top inch, so I don't touch the top frame.
For me, first cleans are like women...the dirtier the better. ;D
-
Hi guys, I'm going from trad to wfp in the next month or two..so thanks for the advice. As I understand it, you're saying give frames a good wipe with clean wet cloth while still trad, before change over. A quick question if I may. If I finally clean and rinse glass one inch below the frame to avoid runs from frame, what's the technique to avoid this happening where you have top openers? Thanks .
-
hi darryn
if i were you id just clean the tops with the pole on all your round first or else you ll get miles behind mate trying to change over all at once. i reckon it takes a good 6 months WFP to really get in your stride and know what your doing.re learning how to clean your round efficiently and to a good standard.
good luck
dazmond
-
I was thinking the same about just doing tops to start off ,its to save my back humping ladder about all day dont mind doing bottoms as i can catch most off floor anyway,lads who went from to trad to wfp ,did yous get the saying it just looks like rain splashed all over glass ,just feels all new but i know its for the best
-
All this going back for a final rinse is rubbish in my experience if they haven't been cleaned properly in the past trad you will need to do the frames first,just tell the customer it will take a couple of cleans to get them right.hot water will spot less due to the water drying quicker and initially being less water left on the glass each clean,if you spend ages there rinsing and scubbing you stand a very good chance of losing work IMO coz it looks like your using a massive amount of water to clean just 1 window.IMO Spring-summer is the best time to change custies over to the pole cold weather isn't here yet but it will be soon and if your leaving water everywhere on your first cleans people won't be happy if it freezes,I'm not trying to be negative on purpose and put you off I would give up this job now rather than ladder any house. The only good thing about winter and window cleaning is that there is less light during the day to see the results,maybe that's your thinking.
-
I was thinking the same about just doing tops to start off ,its to save my back humping ladder about all day dont mind doing bottoms as i can catch most off floor anyway,lads who went from to trad to wfp ,did yous get the saying it just looks like rain splashed all over glass ,just feels all new but i know its for the best
when i first went wfp over 5 and half years ago i lost about 4 or 5 customers and ive lost the odd other 1 or 2 over the years but picked up a hell of a lot more in 5 years. ;D
most customers are fine with it but you cant please everyone.
get the best pole you can afford mate.swerve the aluminium/full fibreglass poles.
a 22 CLX is a good budget starter pole darryn
-
i was 100% trad for 17 years before i made the switch mate :)
-
We bought a round off a trad cleaner who cleaned glass only. The frames were disgusting. We were also new to wfp having only done trad before.
If you have been ignoring the cleaning of frames whilst working traditionally, then you are going to pay the cost for doing that now. It will take a couple of cleans to get those frames right. We did on average 2 deep cleans on the initial first clean on each house and a third clean glass only. That was done once the windows had dried off. We only took payment once the house was 'perfect'. We did on average about 5 new cleans a day - the local gossip bag told everyone that we won't be around long. But it was an investment in our future.
We are still there 11 years later with much better equipment and we still clean each frame, including the one above the top window.
As for gossip bag, we no longer do hers.
We are much better at first cleans now than we were, but as has been stated by others, getting proficient with wfp takes time. You need to learn to walk before you can run, a saying which is very relevant when making the switch to wfp.
Winter isn't the best time to make the switch, but needs must.
The round we bought was done on a 2 weekly basis, but after a few months we found that customers were cancelling as the windows were clean. You need to get a plan sorted for that now. Customers will want to extend the clean but still pay the same money. We weren't prepared for that. We found that even with the quality cleans we did with clean frames, customers didn't want to pay extra for better services.
We live in the North East about 10 miles from Middlesbrough on the coast.
-
Great post Spruce I found the same in my area, doing a better clean could get me all the work I could ever want but
I couldn't demand and get better prices for it.
I think it all depends on what the glass only cleaners are charging in the first place as not all of them work for peanuts.
-
i upped loads of prices straight away when i went wfp as i started to clean frames and the awkward windows i previously didnt clean (velux,3 storey,windows above connys)so i added a pound or 2 on the normal "trad" price.
i was slower overall for the first few months due to inexperience and using a 50L trolley! ::)roll ;D plus a crappy orange fibreglass "streamline " pole with a vikan mono brush on the end!!haha ;D
-
Great post Spruce I found the same in my area, doing a better clean could get me all the work I could ever want but
I couldn't demand and get better prices for it.
I think it all depends on what the glass only cleaners are charging in the first place as not all of them work for peanuts.
Do you still look for new work Sean?
-
We bought a round off a trad cleaner who cleaned glass only. The frames were disgusting. We were also new to wfp having only done trad before.
If you have been ignoring the cleaning of frames whilst working traditionally, then you are going to pay the cost for doing that now. It will take a couple of cleans to get those frames right. We did on average 2 deep cleans on the initial first clean on each house and a third clean glass only. That was done once the windows had dried off. We only took payment once the house was 'perfect'. We did on average about 5 new cleans a day - the local gossip bag told everyone that we won't be around long. But it was an investment in our future.
We are still there 11 years later with much better equipment and we still clean each frame, including the one above the top window.
As for gossip bag, we no longer do hers.
We are much better at first cleans now than we were, but as has been stated by others, getting proficient with wfp takes time. You need to learn to walk before you can run, a saying which is very relevant when making the switch to wfp.
Winter isn't the best time to make the switch, but needs must.
The round we bought was done on a 2 weekly basis, but after a few months we found that customers were cancelling as the windows were clean. You need to get a plan sorted for that now. Customers will want to extend the clean but still pay the same money. We weren't prepared for that. We found that even with the quality cleans we did with clean frames, customers didn't want to pay extra for better services.
We live in the North East about 10 miles from Middlesbrough on the coast.
So what was your solution? As I see it you had three options.
1. Work harder than anyone else doing a great job for poor money.
2. Become slapdash and make a good rate for poor money.
3. Find customers willing to pay for a good service.
Some grasped your post and used it as their excuse for cheap prices. I'm interested in what you did.
-
With any new customers I always clean the glass and frames twice on the 1st clean, it takes longer obviously but I never get any complaints. Also when I changed from trad , I did the upstairs only with wfp for a couple of times and squeegee'd the ground floor just to keep the customers settled. it seemed to work, I only lost 2 customers. Hope that helps. :)
Top advice
-
We bought a round off a trad cleaner who cleaned glass only. The frames were disgusting. We were also new to wfp having only done trad before.
If you have been ignoring the cleaning of frames whilst working traditionally, then you are going to pay the cost for doing that now. It will take a couple of cleans to get those frames right. We did on average 2 deep cleans on the initial first clean on each house and a third clean glass only. That was done once the windows had dried off. We only took payment once the house was 'perfect'. We did on average about 5 new cleans a day - the local gossip bag told everyone that we won't be around long. But it was an investment in our future.
We are still there 11 years later with much better equipment and we still clean each frame, including the one above the top window.
As for gossip bag, we no longer do hers.
We are much better at first cleans now than we were, but as has been stated by others, getting proficient with wfp takes time. You need to learn to walk before you can run, a saying which is very relevant when making the switch to wfp.
Winter isn't the best time to make the switch, but needs must.
The round we bought was done on a 2 weekly basis, but after a few months we found that customers were cancelling as the windows were clean. You need to get a plan sorted for that now. Customers will want to extend the clean but still pay the same money. We weren't prepared for that. We found that even with the quality cleans we did with clean frames, customers didn't want to pay extra for better services.
We live in the North East about 10 miles from Middlesbrough on the coast.
So what was your solution? As I see it you had three options.
1. Work harder than anyone else doing a great job for poor money.
2. Become slapdash and make a good rate for poor money.
3. Find customers willing to pay for a good service.
Some grasped your post and used it as their excuse for cheap prices. I'm interested in what you did.
TBH this section of our round is still under priced 8weekly. I passed it over to SIL as he had the energy to get through it with his splash and dash method. He was able to do high volume with a low price as his running costs were far less than mine.
He isn't cleaning windows any more so this last time I cleaned this section. It was painful doing do. Pricing needs to be raised so we can expect to loose a lot of them.
We raised prices about 4 months after we started cleaning this. Mrs Gossip bag told me that the previous window cleaners tried to do this and failed because she knew everyone on the estate and she will make sure they all cancel.
We put the prices up and stuck it out as about 60% cancelled. Over the next 6 months 90% of them asked us back.
But as I said, I failed to consider and prepare that customers would want to move from 2 weekly to 4 weekly and still want to pay the same price.
We were also caught with the beginning of the credit crunch with this round. So we canvassed and found much better work but the problem is that it isn't compact stuff. We were also concerned as we didn't know how much work we were going to loose with the beginning of the credit crunch. Our focus was on looking for more work as my son came to join the business 2 months before the credit crunch started. Steel making layoffs were a focus of the area in 2008, more so than the last few months.
SIL has proved that he was better working a compact round at poorer pricing than doing bits and pieces of better paid work. However, I haven't the energy to rush through the work like I could before. SIL was fast and his quality of work was pretty good despite his speed. Unfortunately I have come across a few complainers and we just did the last clean for nothing as we couldn't prove anything one way or another. The estate is full of wheeler dealers and chancers.
I am of the opinion that a window cleaner is better off canvassing a new round than buying an under priced one as we did. But we needed additional work very quickly.
We have found the certain estates in our area still have a low price perception of what their window cleaning should cost. It doesn't seem to have changed over the last 10 years. One particular window cleaner dumped all his customers in this area and started canvassing in more affluent areas, something we should have also done years ago TBH. We found that if you ask more than customers perceive they should pay then you don't get the business.
At one time we needed the business, but now we don't. Its sometimes a matter of timing.