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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: toronto on November 09, 2015, 11:55:37 am

Title: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 09, 2015, 11:55:37 am
I have  a diesel powered water heater that I have produced  and have been running now for months.
And am considering producing more.
The heater units themselves are a reconditioned webasto water heater so are a quality item with thermostatic water temperature control my heater has been a blessing.
Unlike the gas heaters I have used before it is very cheap to run, always works and is safe!
The running cost is approx £2 per day using white diesel or £1.20 using red!
Any thoughts would be welcomed
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 09, 2015, 12:22:27 pm
Got any pic please?
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: SeanK on November 09, 2015, 12:59:28 pm
You would be best getting some legal advice on this one, your going to be manufacturing or refurbishing a product to sell on to the public which could leave you liable for anything that might go wrong.
If your just selling on a heater then the manufacturer of the heater will be liable for this but again it wouldn't do any harm to
cover your back with a bit of legal advice.
As for what you could get money wise, well for all the benefits hot users like to brag about they don't seem to be willing to spend a lot of cash for the privilege (going by this forum) so I honestly don't know if its a winner money wise, maybe the fact its not a gas system might get some to part with a few quid more.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 09, 2015, 01:10:15 pm
To be honest not a lot price wise for a recondition one as if you are diy minded you could buy a webasto 9.1 kw complete kit brand new quite cheap.

Webasto Thermo Pro 90 12V Marine Kit (4111135B) SPECIAL OFFER
http://www.webastomarine.co.uk/shop/vclose1.asp?prd=37730&cat=17

Then all you need to get is the following:
WEBASTO & EBERSPACHER TMV thermostatically controlled hot water heat exchanger
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-EBERSPACHER-TMV-Thermostatically-controlled-hot-water-heat-exchanger-/181480196765

Also you could buy a seperate fuel tank if you don't want to tap into the van fuel line and then just whack it in a fabricated box to look neat & tidy if you wanted.  The wabasto exhaust is fitted on the underside of the van so whever you mount it in the back of a van you  will have to also drill a hole in the van floor.

Then you should end up having something that looks like this at a fraction of the cost as this one costs about £3140
http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/water-fed-poles/isothermal-diesel-water-heaters/pure-freedom-isothermal-diesel-water-heater-9kw-2-operator-unit.html

Best you don't run it off red either as they say it  cocks it up.  ;D

Obviously you could diy a 5kw heater cheaper if you wanted.





 
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 09, 2015, 07:46:42 pm
Smurf if you read the webasto website frequently asked questions section you will find that these heaters actually prefer red diesel ( as you would expect when designed for marine applications)
And as for the price I was thinking a few hundred as opposed to a few thousand!
Mine is a rough and ready prototype not reconditioned and not polished but has replaced my gas heater at the same price I would expect to pay for a gas heater!
The recommended service intervals for these heaters is 3000hrs so should last for many years especially as there is so little to go wrong with them.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: DaveG on November 09, 2015, 07:55:17 pm
I'll be interested in knowing more Toronto. . What price are you thinking?
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Spruce on November 09, 2015, 08:02:55 pm
Smurf if you read the webasto website frequently asked questions section you will find that these heaters actually prefer red diesel ( as you would expect when designed for marine applications)
And as for the price I was thinking a few hundred as opposed to a few thousand!
Mine is a rough and ready prototype not reconditioned and not polished but has replaced my gas heater at the same price I would expect to pay for a gas heater!
The recommended service intervals for these heaters is 3000hrs so should last for many years especially as there is so little to go wrong with them.

Not according to Webasto.  They say their units will run on red diesel, but blame the quality of the diesel for coking up issues.

They are playing the' sitting on the fence' game. The marine market is huge but their units run best on road diesel.

Here is an example
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13974
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Spruce on November 09, 2015, 08:14:54 pm
There is a window cleaning business near us. He has a Ford transit H/R LWB and has fitted a hot box as the heater. The exhaust is out of the roof. He uses red diesel, bought from the boating yard pump in Redcar.

The roof of his van is black with soot, despite the cowl being about a foot higher above the roof.

It this soot that Webasto blame for their carbon coking issues.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 09, 2015, 10:01:36 pm
There is a window cleaning business near us. He has a Ford transit H/R LWB and has fitted a hot box as the heater. The exhaust is out of the roof. He uses red diesel, bought from the boating yard pump in Redcar.

The roof of his van is black with soot, despite the cowl being about a foot higher above the roof.

It this soot that Webasto blame for their carbon coking issues.

Pressure washer hot box for window cleaning ???
That's interest to know but just wondering how has he got it set up to do that Spruce?
Must cost him a packet to run too as they are not exactly very fuel efficient.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 09, 2015, 10:18:04 pm
I believe there is a stand alone unit from one of the big window cleaning suppliers that's called the hot box
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 09, 2015, 10:20:21 pm
Smurf if you read the webasto website frequently asked questions section you will find that these heaters actually prefer red diesel ( as you would expect when designed for marine applications)
And as for the price I was thinking a few hundred as opposed to a few thousand!
Mine is a rough and ready prototype not reconditioned and not polished but has replaced my gas heater at the same price I would expect to pay for a gas heater!
The recommended service intervals for these heaters is 3000hrs so should last for many years especially as there is so little to go wrong with them.

Not according to Webasto.  They say their units will run on red diesel, but blame the quality of the diesel for coking up issues.

They are playing the' sitting on the fence' game. The marine market is huge but their units run best on road diesel.

Here is an example
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13974

It seems the disgruntled canal boat owner has a different story to a uk webasto main dealer though so I guess time will tell! Well actually it probably won't because it's easier to just fill up at the petrol station :-)
http://www.webastomarine.co.uk/shop/custom.asp?cpid=custom32
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 09, 2015, 10:36:12 pm
I believe there is a stand alone unit from one of the big window cleaning suppliers that's called the hot box

Oh silly me as forgot it happens to be the name ionics use for their add-on heaters
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 09, 2015, 10:38:34 pm
Have you ever been to an ionics roadshow?
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 09, 2015, 11:31:04 pm
No why?
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 10, 2015, 12:09:04 am
It's funny when he is telling you how stiff and light and value for money the poles are then the salesman's face drops when you open up your van and start grabbing gardiners poles to compare!
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Jonny 87 on November 10, 2015, 07:58:25 am
It's funny when he is telling you how stiff and light and value for money the poles are then the salesman's face drops when you open up your van and start grabbing gardiners poles to compare!

 ;D

It's a little known fact that ionics poles are over priced and wear out quickly.

They tend to be bought by guys who have plenty cash and don't do their research.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Jonny 87 on November 10, 2015, 08:04:15 am
I have  a diesel powered water heater that I have produced  and have been running now for months.
And am considering producing more.
The heater units themselves are a reconditioned webasto water heater so are a quality item with thermostatic water temperature control my heater has been a blessing.
Unlike the gas heaters I have used before it is very cheap to run, always works and is safe!
The running cost is approx £2 per day using white diesel or £1.20 using red!
Any thoughts would be welcomed

If I thought diesel heaters were reliable I would make the jump. But I've not heard of anyone with a diesel system go 12 months without something needing repaired or replaced.

For me, immersion or LPG is simpler.

Different if I employed staff to go out on their own in the van mind you.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 10, 2015, 08:05:02 am
It's funny when he is telling you how stiff and light and value for money the poles are then the salesman's face drops when you open up your van and start grabbing gardiners poles to compare!

Ionics poles hmmm... ;D

So toronto going back to your diesel fired heater what are you thinking of actually selling spec wise and at what price did you have in mind?

Again have you got any pics of your set up please so we could look at. Ta very much
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Spruce on November 10, 2015, 09:56:43 am
It's funny when he is telling you how stiff and light and value for money the poles are then the salesman's face drops when you open up your van and start grabbing gardiners poles to compare!

Ionics poles hmmm... ;D

So toronto going back to your diesel fired heater what are you thinking of actually selling spec wise and at what price did you have in mind?

Again have you got any pics of your set up please so we could look at. Ta very much

My fault for getting us side tracked.

I'm also interested.

Thanks
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Rich Wilts on November 10, 2015, 02:11:05 pm
£1,000 fitted - tops.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 10, 2015, 02:20:52 pm
£1,000 fitted - tops.

fitted  ??? well I supposed toronto did ask how much we were willing to pay
You could buy 10 or more lpg heaters for that amount and still have some change left over ;D

Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Richard Shepherd on November 10, 2015, 03:17:16 pm
Is it possible to fit one of these to your vans cooling system, recirculating water from the tank through it so that it heats the tank up?
Not very engineering minded, hence the question.
WEBASTO & EBERSPACHER TMV thermostatically controlled hot water heat exchanger
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-EBERSPACHER-TMV-Thermostatically-controlled-hot-water-heat-exchanger-/181480196765
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 10, 2015, 05:00:08 pm
Is it possible to fit one of these to your vans cooling system, recirculating water from the tank through it so that it heats the tank up?
Not very engineering minded, hence the question.
WEBASTO & EBERSPACHER TMV thermostatically controlled hot water heat exchanger
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-EBERSPACHER-TMV-Thermostatically-controlled-hot-water-heat-exchanger-/181480196765
It is possible but as a heat source modern engines are not very efficient
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: toronto on November 10, 2015, 05:09:57 pm
As far as spec and price a 5kw unit could be supplied for sub £500   Which is more than enough to provide steaming hot water on a one man system.
I am yet to build a two man system but it will come no doubt once I have time.

Another thing I did just for fun was make a little Bain marrie on the heater!
Put a tin of soup or all day breakfast in it half an hour before lunch and you have a nice winter warmer :-)
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Phil J on November 10, 2015, 06:26:37 pm
Hey Toronto
Just let me know when your rolling them out and I'll have one.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 10, 2015, 08:52:19 pm
As far as spec and price a 5kw unit could be supplied for sub £500   Which is more than enough to provide steaming hot water on a one man system.
I am yet to build a two man system but it will come no doubt once I have time.

Another thing I did just for fun was make a little Bain marrie on the heater!
Put a tin of soup or all day breakfast in it half an hour before lunch and you have a nice winter warmer :-)

I take it those are brand new well known branded make of 5kw heaters (Eberspächer or Webasto) you are on about or are you talking about the cheap china copied ones for that price?
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Spruce on November 11, 2015, 06:05:53 pm
As far as spec and price a 5kw unit could be supplied for sub £500   Which is more than enough to provide steaming hot water on a one man system.
I am yet to build a two man system but it will come no doubt once I have time.

Another thing I did just for fun was make a little Bain marrie on the heater!
Put a tin of soup or all day breakfast in it half an hour before lunch and you have a nice winter warmer :-)

I take it those are brand new well known branded make of 5kw heaters (Eberspächer or Webasto) you are on about or are you talking about the cheap china copied ones for that price?

What cheap Chinese copies are these Smurf? 
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 11, 2015, 07:13:32 pm
As far as spec and price a 5kw unit could be supplied for sub £500   Which is more than enough to provide steaming hot water on a one man system.
I am yet to build a two man system but it will come no doubt once I have time.

Another thing I did just for fun was make a little Bain marrie on the heater!
Put a tin of soup or all day breakfast in it half an hour before lunch and you have a nice winter warmer :-)

I take it those are brand new well known branded make of 5kw heaters (Eberspächer or Webasto) you are on about or are you talking about the cheap china copied ones for that price?

What cheap Chinese copies are these Smurf?

There are loads if you take a look on tinterweb Spruce  ;D
http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-parking-heater.html
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 11, 2015, 07:27:55 pm
Here  is one as an example http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Remote-control-Diesel-water-heater-12V-5KW-liquid-parking-heater-silmilar-as-webasto-water-heater/32230683612.html
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Spruce on November 11, 2015, 07:40:26 pm
Thanks Smurf,
I've never noticed them before. I haven't seen any on Ebay that I'm aware of but I will pay closer attention - I've always presumed everyone I saw were Ebers.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Smurf on November 11, 2015, 07:59:55 pm
It would not surprise me at all if some of the diesel hot water heaters being supplied and sold for window cleaning in metal boxes at a ridiculous high price are actually china made cheaper heaters too.
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: Spruce on November 21, 2015, 09:43:58 pm
Has this thread died Toronto?
Title: Re: What would you pay? Diesel hot water heaters
Post by: G & M on November 30, 2015, 06:48:04 pm
Any update on these heaters Toronto