Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: russ_clark on October 27, 2015, 07:59:43 pm

Title: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 27, 2015, 07:59:43 pm
A well known supplier has a sum of money between 200-300 of mine that I paid for some of their goods.
To cut a long story short the goods were not supplied within the agreed time limit as they were a pre-order.
After agreement was made to cancel the order and refund me in full ( which I have in black and white)
the goods were delivered in error by the courier.
I did the honourable thing and notified supplier and was told I would not be refunded until they had their goods back.
I agreed for the courier to collect goods and had comfirmation the goods were back with supplier.
I was then told there was a 10 day refund policy before the monies could be returned to me?
I requested a copy of this as it was never mentioned before, anyway 30 plus days later and no refund has been made.
My payment was made online by faster payments from my business account and I have contacted my bank who tell me this method
of payment cannot be called back- unlike credit/debit cards.
What would be your next step?
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smudger on October 27, 2015, 08:04:44 pm
If what you have stated is accurate and they have their goods plus your money then I would give them seven day in writing ( sent special delivery ) to return the cash failure will result in court action

Darran
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 27, 2015, 08:35:26 pm
Thanks for your reply Darren.
I have in as many words done that in the form of emails
thinking that would do the trick but it hasn't.

Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smudger on October 27, 2015, 08:39:36 pm
To move forward you need a physical record is. Letter and proof it was delivered, emails can be explained away (spam filter, rogue employee etc..)

Some people like to take it to the brink, but I cannot see why the money has not been returned as they still have the goods  ???

Darran
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Nick Day on October 27, 2015, 08:49:59 pm
You have returned the goods and have tracking proof that they have been received.
Invoice them for the goods.
They can claim that the goods were never ordered so you will probably have to pay to have them returned.
Forget all the history, you've been caught. If they had the money you would have been reimbursed by now.
A  CCJ is the result of a successful small claims court action and a failure to pay.
Post the name on here, they may threaten court action, but if they haven't got the money to pay you, they can't afford to take you to court.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Dave Willis on October 27, 2015, 08:50:43 pm
Name and shame - they won't like bad publicity on here and would soon respond.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 27, 2015, 09:02:16 pm
Nick

They have their goods and my money.
I can't believe that a supplier is acting like this .
I have all the evidence to prove everything I have said
in emails from their so called sales manager.

Lets see if any suppliers would like to comment on this ?
Their name has been posted on here lots of times
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Nick Day on October 27, 2015, 09:13:56 pm
If they had the money they would have paid you, I suspect the Sales Manager is bricking it for his wages this month!!
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Rogue Trader on October 27, 2015, 10:03:02 pm
So who is it then?
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Nick Day on October 27, 2015, 10:10:28 pm
Rogue Trader and Dave Willis are so right, this is a forum and fellow members  really do need to know if there is a trader who should be avoided.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 27, 2015, 10:25:45 pm
I don't want to jeopardise getting my money back at this moment in time .
They are very well known and I am not sure if I will cause myself grief for naming them.
If I have to issue proceedings then I will take advice re naming them .
I know they used to come on here years ago when I first started not sure now
As I don't come on here often now
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 28, 2015, 05:15:06 pm
Signed for Letter sent today requesting refund within 7 days
or taking it to small claims court at their expense.
We will see?
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Nick Day on October 28, 2015, 05:57:29 pm
A little tip.. don't use recorded or signed for delivery. They  can refuse to accept it, it could take a couple of weeks to come back, you will have wasted your money  issuing proceedings. Use standard first class post, you then come under the "posting rule". It says that the instant you put it in the letter box the letter has been sent and received.
You can also use e-mail.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: 8weekly on October 28, 2015, 06:02:17 pm
A little tip.. don't use recorded or signed for delivery. They  can refuse to accept it, it could take a couple of weeks to come back, you will have wasted your money  issuing proceedings. Use standard first class post, you then come under the "posting rule". It says that the instant you put it in the letter box the letter has been sent and received.
You can also use e-mail.
Bullpoop.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 28, 2015, 06:02:57 pm
Have you actually phoned them up and spoken to someone in authority?
Are they far away from you so you might drive down there and knock on the front door?
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 28, 2015, 07:54:34 pm
Have sent letter signed for today.
They are not local to me.
I have confirmation emails from their sales manager
confirming i will get full refund within 10 days according to their refund policy.
That was over 30 days ago
Have phoned them several times and there is never anybody in authority that I can speak to.
I have even left a message for their MD on their Facebook page .
End result  -- diddly squat which is why I have posted this on here.
Bloody disgusted.

Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smudger on October 28, 2015, 08:40:22 pm
I only problem you would have posting a name on here is if your telling porkies

Darran
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 28, 2015, 08:48:15 pm
Darran
I am not telling Porkies
I cannot believe this company has treated my company so badly .
Everyone deserves a chance to explain their actions and they have had ample opportunity.
I am warning others so they don't get the hassle that I am having.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: CleanClear on October 28, 2015, 09:06:14 pm
A little tip.. don't use recorded or signed for delivery. They  can refuse to accept it, it could take a couple of weeks to come back, you will have wasted your money  issuing proceedings. Use standard first class post, you then come under the "posting rule". It says that the instant you put it in the letter box the letter has been sent and received.
You can also use e-mail.
Bullpoop.

He's correct. The only thing i'd add is to get a "proof of posting" slip from the post office when you send it first class. Its all in the Civil Procedures rules for serving documents etc.. You don't have to prove or show they got it, just that you sent it. And thats it, its deemed served.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Nick Day on October 28, 2015, 09:10:24 pm
It appears you ordered  non-standard goods ( normally non-returnable) which were not delivered within a previously specified time limit. Have you a written contract for this?
To be honest nobody has learnt anything.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: CleanClear on October 28, 2015, 09:14:59 pm
It appears you ordered  non-standard goods ( normally non-returnable) which were not delivered within a previously specified time limit. Have you a written contract for this?
To be honest nobody has learnt anything.

The OP says................


After agreement was made to cancel the order and refund me in full ( which I have in black and white)
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Rich Wilts on October 28, 2015, 09:24:41 pm
I am warning others so they don't get the hassle that I am having.


But we don't know who you are warning us about as you haven't told us. We're just as uninformed about this company as we were this time last week.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smudger on October 28, 2015, 09:30:09 pm
Russ - I'm not saying you are telling porkies, but TBH the thread is a bit pointless without knowing who has your money...

If your story is 100 % correct then the company involved can not do anything to you ( and as said wont have the tens of thousands to take you to civil libel anyway ) this isn't a crown court case so again mentioning the company name will not effect your claim.

All I say is before naming names, and I'm keen to know (nosey busybody that I am) is you have defo given them opportunity to sort this issue out, if they haven't - shame them !!!

Darran
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 28, 2015, 09:49:58 pm
Brodex
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smudger on October 28, 2015, 09:56:26 pm
There was me thinking you were dealing with a proper supplier 😝😝😝

Well good luck, I hope to see a post soon that you have got your cash back

Darran
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on October 28, 2015, 10:04:35 pm
Have to agree with you  ::)roll ::)roll
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smurf on October 28, 2015, 10:29:56 pm
Just out of curiosity what is brodex full trading name as registered at companies house?
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: 8weekly on October 28, 2015, 10:34:28 pm
A little tip.. don't use recorded or signed for delivery. They  can refuse to accept it, it could take a couple of weeks to come back, you will have wasted your money  issuing proceedings. Use standard first class post, you then come under the "posting rule". It says that the instant you put it in the letter box the letter has been sent and received.
You can also use e-mail.
Bullpoop.

He's correct. The only thing i'd add is to get a "proof of posting" slip from the post office when you send it first class. Its all in the Civil Procedures rules for serving documents etc.. You don't have to prove or show they got it, just that you sent it. And thats it, its deemed served.
Not without proof he sent it.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: CleanClear on October 28, 2015, 11:00:09 pm
Not without proof he sent it.

I won't argue with you. But the civil procedure rules explain it very clearly for anyone interested. What that said and you said was bull crap, you where wrong. If you say in your statement you sent it and you have a copy, its deemed sent, end of story. There's no need to prove anything. Also, like he said, email is an acceptable method of communication too. Anyway...................

Just out of curiosity what is brodex full trading name as registered at companies house?

Water Sciences Ltd.    And you'll find the gaffer no stranger to the London Gazette, thats the politest i could put it !!  ;D

Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: CleanClear on October 28, 2015, 11:12:47 pm
https://www.duedil.com/director/915050302/sean-lilburne-burke/directorships#widget_directordirectorshipsdocwidget

http://www.brodexbms.co.uk/legal/terms.htm

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1446073947_brodex.png)
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Smurf on October 28, 2015, 11:29:22 pm
Not much hope of a cash refund then by the looks of it as the crafty begger still ship the goods after you cancelled the order  ???

15.Refunds for equipment will only be made when:-
a)      The goods have been returned

b)      Assessment has been made and deductions applied for wear & tear, damage and general condition

c)      20% restocking charge applied if goods are 100% resalable

d)      100% refund is made via credit note only
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Pete Thompson on October 28, 2015, 11:37:53 pm
If I were you I'd do whatever you're going to do fast. 

Brodex seem to go into liquidation approximately every 6 months, thereby voiding any warranties, sales and other obligations.  (Shame if you just paid a deposit)

With "Water Sciences Ltd" they must be onto their 5th or 6th company now.  I'm amazed that sean burke bloke hasn't been disqualified from being a director by now.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Rich Wilts on October 28, 2015, 11:41:17 pm
Im thinking you're not going to be seeing any of that again.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: CleanClear on October 28, 2015, 11:45:08 pm
Not much hope of a cash refund then by the looks of it as the crafty begger still ship the goods after you cancelled the order  ???

15.Refunds for equipment will only be made when:-
a)      The goods have been returned

b)      Assessment has been made and deductions applied for wear & tear, damage and general condition

c)      20% restocking charge applied if goods are 100% resalable

d)      100% refund is made via credit note only

Well i wouldn;t like to second guess the OP's exact case here, but the very relevant part, and the cause of his concern is this..........After agreement was made to cancel the order and refund me in full ( which I have in black and white)
At which point it should of not been delivered. But it was, not through any fault or order of the OP, but actually against his instructions and agreement. The websites terms will largely be irrelevant in any case for a few reasons i'd guess so i wouldn't pay them to much  attention. There's already extensive legislation around consumers act, distance selling etc..but the important point is the above in italics.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: CleanClear on October 28, 2015, 11:51:54 pm
What would be your next step?

Tell him you'll sell the debt on to someone closer to him and take a hit on some of the cash if he doesn't settle with you.  ;D
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on November 04, 2015, 04:46:16 pm
After sending them a final letter by signed for post stating they have 7 days to refund or I will take legal action
I heard nothing.
7 days up today so gave them one last call and told them 5pm today for full refund or I will instigate CCJ.
Was told the sales manager had left and they were short on ground as per normal .
They asked for my Bank details and refund has been made !!!!!!!!
ABSOLUTELY HORRENDOUS CUSTOMER SERVICE
BRODEX -WATER SCIENCE LTD you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: p1w1 on November 04, 2015, 05:09:27 pm
glad you got your money back...with all these good suppliers out there now how anyone can use Brodex is beyond me used them once many years ago and never again. still receive texts off them with there so called amazing offers.
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: Spruce on November 04, 2015, 05:45:09 pm
glad you got your money back...with all these good suppliers out there now how anyone can use Brodex is beyond me used them once many years ago and never again. still receive texts off them with there so called amazing offers.

Me too!
Title: Re: would you take supplier to small claims court or apply for CCJ?
Post by: russ_clark on November 04, 2015, 06:14:28 pm
Agree with you guys never ever again!
Have left the appropriate feedback on their FB page
Hope it stops others unwittingly dealing with the cowboys!!