Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: G & M on September 30, 2015, 11:57:25 pm
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Electric reels a great idea but I would like to know why they are so expensive
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I have been looking at these over the last few weeks and can't see any reason to spend £500 to save 5min a day
I had a stopwatch in the van to see how long it take to reel the hose in with a fixed reel it takes 34 secs to reel in 50m of hose
on average i spent 3-5 minutes a day reeling the hose in.
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I hear what your saying and agree, but I will be purchasing one soon as it has become a must due to arthritis.
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Electric reels a great idea but I would like to know why they are so expensive
I don't think any of us can give you the exact reason or reasons.
But I would say that this is a typical example of economies of scale principles.
Added to that are other factors like manufacturer profit margins and what the acceptable perceived value of an item is in the market place. Shareholder demands are another contributory factor.
My perception is that these items are more popular in the USA than anywhere else. The Americans have a different view of the value of mechanical items. For example, American finance houses still repossess 15 year old vehicles they have a title on (watch the Reponut channel on YouTube) where we in the UK have been hoodwinked into believing that a 10 year old car is worthless.
Added to that would be import duties for manufactured goods outside the EU, transportation costs for limited quantities and UK supplier markups.
One of the things I would especially like in a motorized hose reel is one that has an automatic layering system. The last time I looked, these were being marketed in the US for around $3000.
When Nat Jones in Ireland was window cleaning he spent a lot of time working on a motorized hose reel with a layering system, but it never got off the ground for lots of reasons. I still believe he has it on the proverbial back burner for a future project.
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I have been looking at these over the last few weeks and can't see any reason to spend £500 to save 5min a day
I had a stopwatch in the van to see how long it take to reel the hose in with a fixed reel it takes 34 secs to reel in 50m of hose
on average i spent 3-5 minutes a day reeling the hose in.
In your case it would be a waste of money. For someone else it could be the only way they can continue to earn a living, so for them their perceive value would be totally different to yours.
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Water works , Jordon king do one , £200 to £450 , as does Sebastian Mcclusky .
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For anyone who has problems reeling in, what I do is use 50m of pole hose on the end of my normal microbore. So 100m in total. Most of the time I'm only reeling in the pole hose which is very light and easy. I have used pole hose instead of microbore for a few years now and it's tough, good water pressure, no pump problems and best of all easy on the joints.
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Water works , Jordon king do one , £200 to £450 , as does Sebastian Mcclusky .
Just got one of him. Fixed type (HD) I can say it makes life much better. Still have issues, like it unwinding, but saves my arms to no end. A must to any windy if you ask me. I think they are over priced but got a fare deal
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When Nat Jones in Ireland was window cleaning he spent a lot of time working on a motorized hose reel with a layering system, but it never got off the ground for lots of reasons. I still believe he has it on the proverbial back burner for a future project.
I still want to finish that project - my dad's past 60 now & still cleaning windows & this kinda thing would make his working day a little easier.
My design is probably over-complicated,.. I want a layering mechanism to keep the hose tidy as it winds in (What's the point in having it motorised if you still have to stand there & watch it?!) and remote control.... If I ever manage to clear enough space in my garage to start tinkering I'll get something working - but it is unfortunately on the back burner for a little while...
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been looking at these since me injuries and could see a need to use one.
may even put it to the insurance company to pay for it ;)
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When Nat Jones in Ireland was window cleaning he spent a lot of time working on a motorized hose reel with a layering system, but it never got off the ground for lots of reasons. I still believe he has it on the proverbial back burner for a future project.
I still want to finish that project - my dad's past 60 now & still cleaning windows & this kinda thing would make his working day a little easier.
My design is probably over-complicated,.. I want a layering mechanism to keep the hose tidy as it winds in (What's the point in having it motorised if you still have to stand there & watch it?!) and remote control.... If I ever manage to clear enough space in my garage to start tinkering I'll get something working - but it is unfortunately on the back burner for a little while...
I agree 100%.
I would imagine that a self layering system is very complicated, especially as it has to work for different hose diameters, ie. microbore, minibore and 1/2" garden size hose.
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If you run a diesel heater you will need a split charge setup for the reel alone,if you dont it will run the leisure battery down. That's the good thing about ionic they independently isolate things like heaters etc with there own battery,any electric reel will drain the battery I found
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The best solution for the self layering mechanism is a moving guide arm driven by a self reversing screw. The tollerences are very tight on something like this, so my plan was to build a 4th axis CNC machine (I was planning on building one anyway just as a hobby project) and getting this to produce the parts.
Unfortunately my new house is smaller than my last one & I'm struggling for space for this kind of project,... I'm going to have to have a serious clear out of the garage & get to work. :)
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I got the kit from water works before and it works fine, however I would like to buy a reel with the motor attached but they are very expensive especially when you take sterling into account.
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The best solution for the self layering mechanism is a moving guide arm driven by a self reversing screw. The tollerences are very tight on something like this, so my plan was to build a 4th axis CNC machine (I was planning on building one anyway just as a hobby project) and getting this to produce the parts.
Unfortunately my new house is smaller than my last one & I'm struggling for space for this kind of project,... I'm going to have to have a serious clear out of the garage & get to work. :)
Jesus, what sort of house did you have in mind to house a cnc 4 axis machine ???
Darran
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been looking at these since me injuries and could see a need to use one.
may even put it to the insurance company to pay for it ;)
I have got two now Rich and i love them next time you are down my way give me a shout and i will let you have a play :)
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The best solution for the self layering mechanism is a moving guide arm driven by a self reversing screw. The tollerences are very tight on something like this, so my plan was to build a 4th axis CNC machine (I was planning on building one anyway just as a hobby project) and getting this to produce the parts.
Unfortunately my new house is smaller than my last one & I'm struggling for space for this kind of project,... I'm going to have to have a serious clear out of the garage & get to work. :)
Jesus, what sort of house did you have in mind to house a cnc 4 axis machine ???
Darran
Well nats missus is not going to let him put it in her front room now is she ;D
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LOL - I've a workroom and a double garage in the new house,.. problem is its full of junk at the moment! I'm planning a big clear out over the winter & then start putting it together. ;D
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When i designed my hose roller system (hose goes through floor and under van) I never allowed for winding in 100M THROUGH the system as awkward angles. Electric cox reel fixed that. Very high torque.
Its noisy, slow and eats power but easily my best purchase.
Have to say my van to work from in an absolute dream.
Extreme poles with metal bands, hose roller system through floor and electric reel. Love it.
As for hose layering device. Yep sorted mine, just need to compact it. Works 110% every time!
There will be a race on Me VS another supplier on who brings out the video footage first ahahaha!
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I know this is an old thread.
There were a few windies and suppliers who were working on a hose layering system with electric hose reels a few years ago, but everything has gone very quiet. Nathanael Jones, Peter Fogwill who has sadly since passed, Waterworks, to name a few were all looking at this.
Has anyone still got an ongoing project?
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I know this is an old thread.
There were a few windies and suppliers who were working on a hose layering system with electric hose reels a few years ago, but everything has gone very quiet. Nathanael Jones, Peter Fogwill who has sadly since passed, Waterworks, to name a few were all looking at this.
Has anyone still got an ongoing project?
It obviously didn't work properly in practical terms....
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I’ve had electric reels waste of money always going wrong .
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Light poles hot water and electric reels complete waste of money far better to have surgery on the most complicated joint on the body the shoulder, when you’ve ruined it winding in hose day after day and pushing up heavy poles job after job all you’re working life you might think again.
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I put electric reels last two vans I bought and will have one fitted in the new one I’ve just bought. There’s no productivity benefit, I just want to minimise wear on workers. Especially now I’m recruiting older guys generally.
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Anything to make the actual job of cleaning easier...my electric reel is nearly 4 years old and never misses a beat...
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I’ve had electric reels waste of money always going wrong .
You must of bought one of the crappy electric reels then...which one was it?
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I know this is an old thread.
There were a few windies and suppliers who were working on a hose layering system with electric hose reels a few years ago, but everything has gone very quiet. Nathanael Jones, Peter Fogwill who has sadly since passed, Waterworks, to name a few were all looking at this.
Has anyone still got an ongoing project?
Quite a while ago I did see waterworks made reel where they had a motor running a layering guide but nothing seemed to come of it
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I know this is an old thread.
There were a few windies and suppliers who were working on a hose layering system with electric hose reels a few years ago, but everything has gone very quiet. Nathanael Jones, Peter Fogwill who has sadly since passed, Waterworks, to name a few were all looking at this.
Has anyone still got an ongoing project?
Found it
https://youtu.be/WsaKl0SBNck
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
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If you run a diesel heater you will need a split charge setup for the reel alone,if you dont it will run the leisure battery down. That's the good thing about ionic they independently isolate things like heaters etc with there own battery,any electric reel will drain the battery I found
They only draw current in short bursts , you will hardly notice any difference in battery life.
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If I’ve ever had problems with it turning off years ago it was due to insufficient battery power or poor connections,ideally all connections should be soldered.
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When the heater puts a load through the battery when it powers down and then up again if the battery is either not charged or dodgy it’ll just turn off.
This is why you should keep them running between jobs recirculating so it’s on all the time so to speak.
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When the heater puts a load through the battery when it powers down and then up again if the battery is either not charged or dodgy it’ll just turn off.
This is why you should keep them running between jobs recirculating so it’s on all the time so to speak.
This works for me!
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Yeah if you disconnect the pole and don’t plug in to recirculate within a short time it can turn off then you have to go through the start up cycle again,as you know Spruce on start up cycles the batteries are under a heavy load if it drops down to 11.2 volts at some point during that time it’ll turn off I had this countless times due to a badly charged battery. If you use pumps only you’d get away with wiring straight to the van battery they draw very little,I know quiet a few that do just this but with a heater well charged batteries are a must as well as a decent split charge system the £30-40 quid types are useless.
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Yeah if you disconnect the pole and don’t plug in to recirculate within a short time it can turn off then you have to go through the start up cycle again,as you know Spruce on start up cycles the batteries are under a heavy load if it drops down to 11.2 volts at some point during that time it’ll turn off I had this countless times due to a badly charged battery. If you use pumps only you’d get away with wiring straight to the van battery they draw very little,I know quiet a few that do just this but with a heater well charged batteries are a must as well as a decent split charge system the £30-40 quid types are useless.
In my experience even an expensive battery 2 battery charger won't full recharge a battery (leisure or starter) doing short runs.
Batteries only accept a limited recharge rate even although, in the case of a starter battery, can discharge a high current rate.
If I take 4 amps from my leisure battery, my van's alternator through a Sterling b2b charger will only charge my leisure battery back up at around 2 amps. In theory, if the figures remained the same, it would take my alternator 2 hours to fully recharge my battery. But as the battery accepts a lower and lower charge the closer it gets to fully charged, it will take longer than 2 hours.
We have tried to run a single pump off the van's starter battery a number of times over the years; Peugeot Partner, Ford Transit Connect and now my son's Citroen Berlingo. Starter batteries were flat between 4 and 7 days. We just don't do enough mileage or travelling time to recharge the batteries. Yet, there was a windie down South who only ran his pump from the starter battery on his Berlingo and replacement van without issue.
In today's world, I believe Lithium-ion batteries would work better in our industry as they will accept a faster recharge rate. But they need a b2b charger programmed for lithium. The cost of £600 for a 100 amph battery also puts me off TBH. Freezing temps are another issue with them. You can discharge a frozen lithium-ion battery, but can't recharge it.
Splash and Dash has stated that his Marine expert friend that has done all his WFP installations in his vans has commented that there is another battery 'in the wings' that is better than Lithium-ion.
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Do you have auto level wind on your electric reels for window cleaning ? Would that sort of system be doable on a window cleaning system ? With regards to grit and dirt on the hose some window cleaners have 100 metres of pole hose on their reels so I think the problem would be the grit acting like sand paper on the inside of the poles if not cleaned while winding in.
I really thought Water works were onto something good with their setup
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Do you have auto level wind on your electric reels for window cleaning ? Would that sort of system be doable on a window cleaning system ? With regards to grit and dirt on the hose some window cleaners have 100 metres of pole hose on their reels so I think the problem would be the grit acting like sand paper on the inside of the poles if not cleaned while winding in.
I really thought Water works were onto something good with their setup
No not on the window cleaning reels but sure it would work if someone invented it , waterworks were developing one but mast I Hurd it wasn’t cost speffectjve to do it as a full on production model , shame as I think it would be good but would probably make it harder work pulling the hose off the reel , we usually have the hose run through a rag when reeling in to get rid of most of the dirt
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There's just no need for automatic spooling....how easy do you want to make this job?I often use anti bacterial wipes that I have in the back of my van when reeling in for hygiene purposes esp if I'm not wearing gloves....
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There's just no need for automatic spooling....how easy do you want to make this job?I often use anti bacterial wipes that I have in the back of my van when reeling in for hygiene purposes esp if I'm not wearing gloves....
🤔As easy as possible - you know that better than anyone! You’re always banging on about hot water, extreme poles, light brushes, part time hours, heated driver’s seat etc. The list goes on!
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They reel in differently with hot water the hose goes where you point it.
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Christ , what brigade do you work for ?? we dont have auto level in hampshire and we are well posh ! ha ha
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There's just no need for automatic spooling....how easy do you want to make this job?I often use anti bacterial wipes that I have in the back of my van when reeling in for hygiene purposes esp if I'm not wearing gloves....
🤔As easy as possible - you know that better than anyone! You’re always banging on about hot water, extreme poles, light brushes, part time hours, heated driver’s seat etc. The list goes on!
Automatic spooling is a step too far.......;D....
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Christ , what brigade do you work for ?? we dont have auto level in hampshire and we are well posh ! ha ha
Cornwall FRS we have some of the best kit in the country every fire truck has electric level wind reels on it
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Unless your fitting into vans for staff, you can really save your hard earnt cash and make one yourself, with a hose guide as well.
Your saving energy and a slight bit of time by using one and thats even standing next to it with a rag, cleaning the hose from grit as it winds in.
Many a window cleaner has done a diy version and they work very well. I had mine for a couple of years before i sold it all on (could be wrong but its still in use as far as im aware).
I ran mine of a seperate 12v 110ah leisure battery (all be it, trickled charged from a solar panal on top of the van and periodically (through winter months) with a smart charger over night on the drive.
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Christ , what brigade do you work for ?? we dont have auto level in hampshire and we are well posh ! ha ha
Cornwall FRS we have some of the best kit in the country every fire truck has electric level wind reels on it
What a lovely place to work , a guy from my station near portsmouth joined cornwall last year and moved down
, Brett Baker .
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They reel in differently with hot water the hose goes where you point it.
Quote of the week….
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Christ , what brigade do you work for ?? we dont have auto level in hampshire and we are well posh ! ha ha
Cornwall FRS we have some of the best kit in the country every fire truck has electric level wind reels on it
What a lovely place to work , a guy from my station near portsmouth joined cornwall last year and moved down
, Brett Baker .
Ok don’t recognise the name what station is he based at ??
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I think one major problem with automatic spooling would be the grit and debris that sticks to the hose especially in wet weather.....so having to stand with a cloth in your hand while it reels back onto the reel seems the only solution to this. The grit has to go somewhere once it is reeled in if not cleaned while reeling it back in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsaKl0SBNck&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aar7STR-EBo&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UQoCDdvfI&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYCYYs07QM&list=PLA7cCLGKkvOB1eCFxEVJlW2SGrVYEGYOl&index=3
Must admit I have been waiting ages like everybody else. Would love to wind up as I'm walking back to the van.
We have auto level wind on the hose reels on the fire trucks grit and dirt arnt a problem .
Christ , what brigade do you work for ?? we dont have auto level in hampshire and we are well posh ! ha ha
Cornwall FRS we have some of the best kit in the country every fire truck has electric level wind reels on it
What a lovely place to work , a guy from my station near portsmouth joined cornwall last year and moved down
, Brett Baker .
Ok don’t recognise the name what station is he based at ??
Not sure now mate to be honest .