Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Willis on September 29, 2015, 09:44:52 pm
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You still using it?
My strainer has been getting a tad slimy lately - nothing much. Just wondered if the GG4 might be causing it (could even be my pure water IBC - haven't checked). Your strainer clear?
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Sorry Dave
Don't use strainers - never could see the point
But haven't noticed anything other than clean, shiny, Windows 😃
Darran
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My strainer gets a film of slime and I am not using gg4 started going slimy on Vision and on ecover + vinegar but now experimenting with something else which will hopefully stop problem maybe when soap meets pure water causing a skin like the scum you get on bathroom basin if you leave soap in water
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Over the past 5 years I've used loads of different additives and never had a build up of anything in the strainer.
Maybe one weekend give your ibc and tank a good flush out with tap water and a bit of virosol.
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Darren/Dave what ratio of GG4 do you use with pure? Is it similiar to Vision 1ml /100 litres?
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If you are using a transparent tank to hold pure water in the tank walls etc will eventually go green after time and you will also get wiggly things swimming about in the water too. The slim is just microorganism growth the same as you get in filters etc.
There is a good reason why tap water is chlorinated ;D
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Yes Matt - I brought dispensing bottles off eBay (4 for around £6.00)
And dose one squirt per 200 litres
If your water is pure and your filling on a regular basis it won't go green and defo no worms 8)
A teaspoon of sodium hypochlorite once every couple of months would keep everything bacterially clean
Darran
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Thansks Darren. I'll give it a pop, see how it pans out.
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Is that same as Milton tablets for baby bottle sterilization
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Don't think so, hypo is industrial bleach used in swimming pools
Darran
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You also don't want to go running a bleach mix through yer pumps either as it will kill them unless you buy a chlorine resitant pump like a fat boy but still they don't last forever as eventualy the bleach mix kills them too ;D
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So have I been wasting my time with Milton tablets
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So have I been wasting my time with Milton tablets
No as they work too
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Milton tabs are fine
I hardly think one spoonful to a 1000 litres of water qualifies as a bleach mix
Darran
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Darren/Dave what ratio of GG4 do you use with pure? Is it similiar to Vision 1ml /100 litres?
I use 2ml to 100l. I've never used Vision so can't compare.
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Milton tabs are fine
I hardly think one spoonful to a 1000 litres of water qualifies as a bleach mix
Darran
very true ;D
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So have I been wasting my time with Milton tablets
How many Milton tabs would you place in a 400ltr tank and how often to prevent the build up of Bio-film
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Myself I would clean/treat each tank at least once a year using hypo to kill any crap in them, then flush them through and wash them out thoroughly with pure.
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treat every thing spring, mid summer and autumn use whatever ratio it say's on box if its good enough for baby's should be good well that's my theory but would be better trying liquid saves opening all those packs
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I've never cleaned my tanks in eight years :o Never washed a brush either.
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Same here Dave, 6 years in none of my tanks either van or static have ever gone green even when they stood in the garden but if anyone is worried then the hypo will do the biz ( or the Milton tabs )
Darran
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Gg4 works nicely on 2ml dose pr 100ltr. I've just tried on 2.5ml pr 100ltr this week and that seems fine too. Good finish. Although with 2ml working fine, I don't know if there's much point of using the extra 0.5!!
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I want a go of this gg4 material, ;D
Who or were r we getting it from guys, a link maybe or telephone number.
I think vision is all day but putting them figures into perspective I want in on this gg4 gang
Matt
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GG4 is readily available from most cleaning suppliers
I get mine from here...
http://www.windowcleancentre.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?ProductID=175&SectionID=26
Darran
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hi Darran.
I`ve always used gg3 in my 25 ltr barrels just a drizzle through the finger spout.
Mentioned on here often in the past but used to get p-taking.
Not a trend setter like you (why can`t I add smiley`s?)
Also add virosol sometimes on bad first cleans.
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Amazing, thought sun was out time to go back out again.
It`s sunny and pouring with rain at the same time :(
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I've ordered something else to try, very cheap and smells of citrus ;D
If it works I might call it Division - i'm expecting opinions to be very divided.
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I've ordered something else to try, very cheap and smells of citrus ;D
If it works I might call it Division - i'm expecting opinions to be very divided.
If you've ordered what I think you've ordered......... Be careful Dave. It won't mix with water, and is also like a paint stripper even though in its form is quite eco friendly. (Remember I'm no longer associated with vision and jigsaw so I have no ulterior motives here).
Watch how you go!
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Ah, but I might not have ordered what you think I've ordered at all. Don't worry, it's not the raw ingredients.
Virosol is a citrus based degreaser too come to think of it so probably not that far away either (or was it Ubik I'll have a look sometime).
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What's the reason for using gg4 in tanks over the gg3 is it better?
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GG4 for hard water areas GG3 soft water
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What's the reason for using gg4 in tanks over the gg3 is it better?
I used it because I had it in stock already, there was mention of using it on their website some time ago so I dropped them a line. There was an article somewhere in their FAQ section where they reckoned you could scrub the glass with GG4 and rinse it off with a hose pipe and get perfect results - never tried it myself. http://titanlabs.net/media/gg4-features.pdf
I've never tried GG3 for trad or WFP either.
I got bored last night and looked at lots of other products that maybe might produce a good finish, things like various rinse aids and cleaners - some of them have pretty harsh ingredients though that I wouldn't be happy squirting about.
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GG4 for hard water areas GG3 soft water
yes I no mike but it's in a tank of pure water which isn't hard anymore..
Just wondering if gg3 might of been better in the tank for wfp.
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What I do from time to time is put a few cups of household bleach ( not the thick one ) and the pump some through the system and then leave the tank cap off because it will evaporate out of the water and kill all bacteria making the slimy stuff. I do the same to my static system as well. Never been a problem on the glass at all.
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What's the reason for using gg4 in tanks over the gg3 is it better?
I used it because I had it in stock already, there was mention of using it on their website some time ago so I dropped them a line. There was an article somewhere in their FAQ section where they reckoned you could scrub the glass with GG4 and rinse it off with a hose pipe and get perfect results - never tried it myself. http://titanlabs.net/media/gg4-features.pdf
I've never tried GG3 for trad or WFP either.
I got bored last night and looked at lots of other products that maybe might produce a good finish, things like various rinse aids and cleaners - some of them have pretty harsh ingredients though that I wouldn't be happy squirting about.
Dave what are you looking for or better still what problems are you getting that's driving you to all this time wasting ?
Iv just come in from a days cleaning (well about 5 hours which is good going for me) and to be honest even though I get a lot less than some on here I still feel guilty that I'm charging so much for spending so little time at each property just using cold pure.
Additives make no difference to any part of cleaning using wfp, you cant put enough for them in the water to make a difference
and even if you could that difference isn't needed.
Its nothing more than a confidence builder for the small amount for guys who cant get their heads around the fact that water
can clean the glass and frames on its own.
Even in traditional work and used in higher concentrations GG3 and GG4 aren't anything special do you honestly think they
will work miracles in pure water in such small doses ?
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised.
thats exactly what i think dave , I clean a lot of insides after cleaning the outsides with wfp and i can see pure sometimes needs a little help. although i don't use gg4 yet ,I've definitely seen a difference with vision . some people are ignorant to the fact it could make a difference. imho
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised.
thats exactly what i think dave , I clean a lot of insides after cleaning the outsides with wfp and i can see pure sometimes needs a little help. although i don't use gg4 yet ,I've definitely seen a difference with vision . some people are ignorant to the fact it could make a difference. imho
I agree as cold pure water on it's own sucks on filthy surfaces and defo needs a boost if you want my honest opinion.
Using a boost aswell as hot pure now that transforms wfp work to even a better standard than trad could ever do ;D
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when you get a chance to check your work , you can see the pure is not brill . so much so i was thinking of doing shops traditional . but using vision has restored my faith in the pole system .
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I have hot if I want it (fogwash) but having shattered glass with it I rarely switch it on. I think additives help but don't perform miracles. I did a big first clean the other day, spent a long time on it and double rinsed/duble scrubbed - looked fantastic, customer was over the moon ........................... then I moved on to the insides, rubbish I thought.
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I have hot if I want it (fogwash) but having shattered glass with it I rarely switch it on. I think additives help but don't perform miracles. I did a big first clean the other day, spent a long time on it and double rinsed/duble scrubbed - looked fantastic, customer was over the moon ........................... then I moved on to the insides, rubbish I thought.
i use to use hot but ditched the lpg boiler i didn't like it . i had one burst on me and another burst into flames . I'm thinking of an immersion heater for this winter . 2 reasons when i heat the water it will act like a rad and keep it all frost free and secondly the safety aspect
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I've never cleaned my tanks in eight years :o Never washed a brush either.
Could explain your poor results? ;D
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Hardly :D
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.
You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?
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I've never had a complaint in eight years, you don't seem capable of grasping what I've written.
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.
You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?
ignorance is bliss . why not try it before going into one
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I've never had a complaint in eight years, you don't seem capable of grasping what I've written.
So you haven't had a complaint therefore I can assume you haven't lost a single customer either , I understand exactly what you are
saying which is you are trying to fix something that isn't broken.
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.
You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?
Oh please seank, reading your views on this subject is so frustrating. ::)roll
We live in a very fast moving generation where people are always seeking more, to do better and to be better.
If we all shared your views then wfp would never have come on as far as it has today.
It is where it is through guys like Mr Willis and others, trying things out of the norm, pushing the boundaries and sharing there experiences. To criticise him for that is low.
Because of Dave iv been using gg4 in my tank recently and I like the results. Glass is noticeably shinier, brush glides better. That is enough in itself to warrent using gg4 because its better, if only slightly, then using pure alone.
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.
You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?
ignorance is bliss . why not try it before going into one
Have tried both it and Vision not because I thought it would clean better but that it might make the water more gloopy
and help with problem openers.
Failed on all scores even with higher concentrations than I would have been comfortable using for fear of spotting.
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I'm always trying to get better results - most of us do that's why we try different brushes, vision or whatever - always looking to make the job easier - the results better. Customers are happy it seems - I'm not. ;)
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Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.
So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.
You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?
ignorance is bliss . why not try it before going into one
Have tried both it and Vision not because I thought it would clean better but that it might make the water more gloopy
and help with problem openers.
Failed on all scores even with higher concentrations than I would have been comfortable using for fear of spotting.
i feared it would spot tbh thats why i tried it on a round i knew i could check the results , now i have complete trust in the product
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en Joy di' vision as love will tear you apart.
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Can gg3/4 be used with the injector? Bought one for vision and it works a treat.
Thanks, Phil.
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With all your experience seank I would have thought you would have at least noticed by now that on many surfaces after using pure water it dries dull, some surfaces are more apparent than others.
Over the years, I had several customers comment ( not complain ) that the windows didn't have that zing they used to have, I couldn't agree the time understand it, but checking out these windows and frames closely showed that the upvc had definitely got a lustre finish and not glossy - the glass was great.
These frames I treated like a first clean with a g101 solution and pure water clean the frames dried and shone ( just like a first clean!!) then up popped vision, brill, I added it to the pure, yes the results are subtle but they were there, since that day not one single customer ( and I have a few ) has ever said the Windows have lost that bright zing of the first clean
Of course, you can argue it's just coinsidence, it's something to boost my confidence, I don't really know or understand how WFP works, but the science is clear, water (even pure) can only do so much, and to have, embrace and use pure water on steroids is the right way forward.
To me it sounds like you may have a few confidence problems with respect to cleaning and WFP, I Could be wrong but that's just the way you come across.. :(
Darran
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With all your experience seank I would have thought you would have at least noticed by now that on many surfaces after using pure water it dries dull, some surfaces are more apparent than others.
Over the years, I had several customers comment ( not complain ) that the windows didn't have that zing they used to have, I couldn't agree the time understand it, but checking out these windows and frames closely showed that the upvc had definitely got a lustre finish and not glossy - the glass was great.
These frames I treated like a first clean with a g101 solution and pure water clean the frames dried and shone ( just like a first clean!!) then up popped vision, brill, I added it to the pure, yes the results are subtle but they were there, since that day not one single customer ( and I have a few ) has ever said the Windows have lost that bright zing of the first clean
Of course, you can argue it's just coinsidence, it's something to boost my confidence, I don't really know or understand how WFP works, but the science is clear, water (even pure) can only do so much, and to have, embrace and use pure water on steroids is the right way forward.
To me it sounds like you may have a few confidence problems with respect to cleaning and WFP, I Could be wrong but that's just the way you come across.. :(
Darran
Good post..
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Seank you used to do my head in when I was part of the vision team. ;D
Now I just find it quite funny to be honest, and at least now I don't have to worry about sounding professional in my answers (not that I managed that anyway). :)
You say that using additives is pointless because they are used in such a small amount that it has no effect what so ever...........
That can be proved wrong straight away by anyone who has tried vision. The first thing you notice is the glide of the brush head on the glass.
Now if 1mill per 100 litres of pure can make the bristles glide more on a surface, it would be reasonable to deduce that it's also possible that an additive at that ratio could also help with the clean or shine?
Surely your not that narrow minded?
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You and me should go into business Johnny - ever fancied selling additives?
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You and me should go into business Johnny - ever fancied selling additives?
;)
It's too much fun being on this side of the glass.
Kempy is the man now.
He's doing a grand job.
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Shame, I always thought you were the sensible one. ;)
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Shame, I always thought you were the sensible one. ;)
You must be joking.
Wife says I'm as mad as a bag of frogs. I just type well. ;D
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With all your experience seank I would have thought you would have at least noticed by now that on many surfaces after using pure water it dries dull, some surfaces are more apparent than others.
Over the years, I had several customers comment ( not complain ) that the windows didn't have that zing they used to have, I couldn't agree the time understand it, but checking out these windows and frames closely showed that the upvc had definitely got a lustre finish and not glossy - the glass was great.
These frames I treated like a first clean with a g101 solution and pure water clean the frames dried and shone ( just like a first clean!!) then up popped vision, brill, I added it to the pure, yes the results are subtle but they were there, since that day not one single customer ( and I have a few ) has ever said the Windows have lost that bright zing of the first clean
Of course, you can argue it's just coinsidence, it's something to boost my confidence, I don't really know or understand how WFP works, but the science is clear, water (even pure) can only do so much, and to have, embrace and use pure water on steroids is the right way forward.
To me it sounds like you may have a few confidence problems with respect to cleaning and WFP, I Could be wrong but that's just the way you come across.. :(
Darran
What science is clear ? I can certainly understand a newbie coming into this business and not understanding how it works
or what is what but you come from a manufacturing engineering background and it surprises me that you don't even know
the basics on what causes a window frame to lose its shine or what it takes to restore it.
Like I have already said GG3 isn't the best cleaner on the market even when used in traditional work so the small amounts you add to your tank would be diluted well beyond any use.
I like it because the majority of traditional work I do is inside and it seems to stay wet longer on hot days so maybe that's
what's fooling you the wet pebble effect.
So I have confidence issues with using wfp because I don't need to use an additive to achieve results that please me.
Very good.
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Seank you used to do my head in when I was part of the vision team. ;D
Now I just find it quite funny to be honest, and at least now I don't have to worry about sounding professional in my answers (not that I managed that anyway). :)
You say that using additives is pointless because they are used in such a small amount that it has no effect what so ever...........
That can be proved wrong straight away by anyone who has tried vision. The first thing you notice is the glide of the brush head on the glass.
Now if 1mill per 100 litres of pure can make the bristles glide more on a surface, it would be reasonable to deduce that it's also possible that an additive at that ratio could also help with the clean or shine?
Surely your not that narrow minded?
Unfortunately Jonny no matter how much I try I just cant get past my common sense and the fact that I did go into the upvc restoring game for a while.
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So what happened in the upvc resortation game that you changed to cleaning windows ?
Darran
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I've never cleaned my tanks in eight years :o Never washed a brush either.
Ive never cleaned the tank but I've had to wash the odd brush that got BBQ grease on it from a window too near the BBQ.
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So what happened in the upvc resortation game that you changed to cleaning windows ?
Darran
There wasn't enough demand which I don't mind as window cleaning has turned out to be a lot handier.