Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Positivity on September 25, 2015, 08:21:58 am
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Hi Just got request from accountant for years figures.
He charged £450 last year, it's o.k. getting bound accounts with balance sheet, tangible assets, profit and loss etc. but we're only a small enterprise really and TBH I can't understand most of it anyway!
How difficult is it to do your own online self assessment?
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Its easy. The hard part is knowing what you can claim for. Like van depreciation
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Its easy. The hard part is knowing what you can claim for. Like van depreciation
I've think I've figured that out by taking percentages from the last 3 years so hopefully that should be O.K. but there's all kind of stuff such as having to calculate the interest earned on your current account for instance.
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its always worth having a good accountant.wait until you get a tax enquiry.the revenue will have you in tears trust me.they follow you in umarked cars & know your every move,thats if your dishonest. they are worth every penny when they fight your corner.i speak from experience & I was honest.
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If your self employed then DIY as long as your honest and nothing to hide then let them prove your on the fiddle . If you got a problem as long as its not last minute before tax return due in found them helpful .
If you try doing a fiddle then they will spot it they are more clever than most on here.
As for all those that boast how much they earn you never know who is watching the forums
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there paid to be clever.they have to get results.its there job.they followed some one I know who wasn't declaring all his work.lets just say he was taking the ****they got him in & asked- do u clean this road that road blah blah.he tried to play stupid.well of course they followed him & highlighted all the roads & work he didn't declare on a ordinance survey map.he was stung for a lot of $$$$
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its always worth having a good accountant.wait until you get a tax enquiry.the revenue will have you in tears trust me.they follow you in umarked cars & know your every move,thats if your dishonest. they are worth every penny when they fight your corner.i speak from experience & I was honest.
If you don't have insurance to cover a tax investigation your accountant will fight your corner alright but most will charge a fortune to do so.
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its always worth having a good accountant.wait until you get a tax enquiry.the revenue will have you in tears trust me.they follow you in umarked cars & know your every move,thats if your dishonest. they are worth every penny when they fight your corner.i speak from experience & I was honest.
If you don't have insurance to cover a tax investigation your accountant will fight your corner alright but most will charge a fortune to do so.
+1
Have you ever noticed the disclaimer from the accountant when you sign for your books - basically it says you are responsible and he takes no liability. - of course he will fight your case but only after charging you £'£££
Tax returns are pretty straightforward certainly if your OMB but for a couple of hundred quid it's always good to get a professional to look over them.
Darran
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its always worth having a good accountant.wait until you get a tax enquiry.the revenue will have you in tears trust me.they follow you in umarked cars & know your every move,thats if your dishonest. they are worth every penny when they fight your corner.i speak from experience & I was honest.
Surely it costs the taxpayer more money to send these guys out in there unmarked cars, pay there wages etc then they would ever recoup rate from a window cleaner not declaring a few jobs here and there!
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For us little guys that would be true, but the effect on others will justify this action ( think of the hundreds that suddenly feel the urge to start paying 😃 )
The father in laws friend was a Plummer who worked for the council, and advertised in the local press, the tax man followed him for six months before reeling him in ( just after the tax returns went in ) he didn't declare a single penny outside his "job" they pulled out all the addresses,times, etc.. His new tax bill was an extra £30k
Darran
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How come a question about self assessment then turns into people make assumpations that self employed people are on the fiddle .
It boils my P$$$ when once in a while you get talking to someone and they say but you dont put have to put every thing through you just not declare the cash you're getting .
No I bloody can't I am honest and pay my taxes but use an account to ensure that I can lawfully claim for every thing possible
Tax doesn't have to be taxing they binned that advert a good few years ago the online system became a nightmare far better to pay a chartered accountant and know everything is in order .
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I do mine, but they are so straight forward - if I do get stuck (hope this is ok with admin??? if not remove) there is a site called UKBF where there are loads of accountants, employment law people, etc, who are incredibly generous in offering solutions to questions if you get stuck when doing your own return.
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theres a hairdresser were I take the little one.they had a tax investigation!!!check this out!!!! they rely on tips-but tips are taxable.they were not declaring it ???& yes xmas tips are taxable.now how honest are you ;D
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theres a hairdresser were I take the little one.they had a tax investigation!!!check this out!!!! they rely on tips-but tips are taxable.they were not declaring it ???& yes xmas tips are taxable.now how honest are you ;D
Yes Xmas tips are taxable and this includes gifts as well.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim07900.htm
When I used to work as a milkman for Unigate some of the roundsmen received over £1,500 in tips & gifts at Christmas. Whether they actually declared this or not I don't know ....
I declare all my tips. I have one customer who tips me £4 every clean every 4 weeks... More often it's just a £1 here or there ...
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I was a self employed milk man at the age of 19. I made silly money. I got an accountant who did all my accounts for years. My accountant got sent down for fraud. I had to take my accounts to tax office. They said they were no good and had to be re done. They wernt certified or something. Long time ago.
I had to pay another accountant to re do them.
I found out, unless you can claim for things you don't know about, its not worth it. If you screw your accounts up. You wont get sent down. All they are for, is showing your income really. You gain by having an accountant so you can claim for more hidden things.
Big companies are a totally different thing. They will have clerks etc to help in this.
I got visited by the tax man one day. I had
a customer who worked at the petrol station. She gave me a receipt for X amount. He pulled out that 1 receipt out of hundreds, many from the same place. These guys are good
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My business is a very simple business model, I would also think that this industry is, fuel, vans, sign writing, websites, etc. Not too complicated........... I think if you were a LTD company, dealing with VAT, turnover of x amount of 1000's then maybe an accountant, but Im not so sure if you are turning over less than 50K I would take an accountant on - as there is sites like UKBF with qualified accountants that will give away advice for free. If I ever get stuck, I just pop a question on there and in mins there would be somebody that will come along and answer it - so as far as an accountant if you turning under less than 50K not sure if its worth it.....
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Hi Just got request from accountant for years figures.
He charged £450 last year, it's o.k. getting bound accounts with balance sheet, tangible assets, profit and loss etc. but we're only a small enterprise really and TBH I can't understand most of it anyway!
How difficult is it to do your own online self assessment?
Online self assesment is very easy. I think its easier than filling in a self assesment form, i say this because on the online version there are "help" annotations to help you and clue you up to the various passages.
Its easy. The hard part is knowing what you can claim for. Like van depreciation
I've think I've figured that out by taking percentages from the last 3 years so hopefully that should be O.K. but there's all kind of stuff such as having to calculate the interest earned on your current account for instance.
I can't help you with depreciation advice as its not something i've ever used. I've used a simpler "capital allowance" route, and as i generally buy older vans that suits me fine. But you should't have to calculate interest on your current account as you generally get a statement telling you what it is? And after all, even if you have a big turnover your interest on a current account wouldn't be anything to write home about. We're talking coppers/pennies.
Here's my advice for what its worth and it will cost you nothing only your own time..............
register for online self assesment............. you'll be given a user name and a password. You can fill in your self assesment to the best of your ability using the book keeping records you have, you do have them don't you? I don't mean to be glib over this point, and i'll come back to it at the end. If you're stuck on a certain point, ask here or a small business forum for some advice.
When you have filled in the assesment form you do not need to "submit it" at this point, you can save it to come back to. Print it out, go get some advice then, maybe ask an accountant at this stage? You'll have done all the hard work based on your book keeping ?
I've no idea about carrying allowances over, long term finance or leases, i've based what i've said on simple things like buying a van for a grand, recording your takings, recording your out goings and thats it. There are more complex matters that accountants can help with i.e..knowing how much to claim for use of your own home as a part office etc...but as far as i know they extend to something small like £250 a year (i could be wrong, so check it), which in the scheme of things saves you next to nothing. So i'd be wary of paying someone £450 a year to save me a few pence. Its not something i have ever claimed.
If as you say you are small and not complex, and i've assumed you are not VAT registered, and i've assumed you're not a limited co. that requires assets to be listed etc...i've no idea why you can't do this easily and simply yourself and save £450 accountants fees.
This bit doesn't apply to you (per se) its just a general statement............ if anyone thinks they're going to throw bank statements, a few reciepts, and a few bits and bobs of accounts to an accountant to compile then you'll get what you deserve. And even in an investigation you'll be held out to dry by your accountant and the tax man. Keep your books right, its simple, record your takings, record your out goings. Fill in the form. Anything should be by reference, its easy.
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Chappy above is right - its really not that hard OP, and there is tons of advice of business forums like UKBF - qualified accountants will answer questions free of charge - will save you a lot of money
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Its easy. The hard part is knowing what you can claim for. Like van depreciation
I've think I've figured that out by taking percentages from the last 3 years so hopefully that should be O.K. but there's all kind of stuff such as having to calculate the interest earned on your current account for instance.
They get that from you first bank statement after the end of the April tax year. Mine is usually on the May bank statement in the summary section. Just use those figures.
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Yep rang the bank about interest stuff and they give me a break down either over the phone or send a statement - nothing frightening, just a question of reading through the questions and if you get stuck - you go onto the UKBF (im not trying to promote the site, but its fantastic)
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As you fill out your self assessment online, there are help buttons next to each question to help you answer it. Some even give examples as is the case with vehicle depreciation, private use percentage and pooling. Copy those but replacing your figures with theirs.
Even if you know what you did the previous year its always good to look at these each year as there have been changes made, as has been the case with the depreciation calculation.
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As you fill out your self assessment online, there are help buttons next to each question to help you answer it. Some even give examples as is the case with vehicle depreciation, private use percentage and pooling. Copy those but replacing your figures with theirs.
Even if you know what you did the previous year its always good to look at these each year as there have been changes made, as has been the case with the depreciation calculation.
Copy those but replace their figures with yours?
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As you fill out your self assessment online, there are help buttons next to each question to help you answer it. Some even give examples as is the case with vehicle depreciation, private use percentage and pooling. Copy those but replacing your figures with theirs.
Even if you know what you did the previous year its always good to look at these each year as there have been changes made, as has been the case with the depreciation calculation.
Copy those but replace their figures with yours?
What I meant was coping their working-out example but using your vehicle costs. Sorry for any confusion - my middle name. :)
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If you're under a tax investigation I bet no one can lie well and confidently. I know I couldn't. I declare what I earn because sleeping well at night is high on my list of priorities.
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If you're under a tax investigation I bet no one can lie well and confidently. I know I couldn't. I declare what I earn because sleeping well at night is high on my list of priorities.
+1
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Thanks for all the info. Going to give it a go. Millions do it every year so it can't be impossible! ;D ;D
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Nice one, good luck.
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They get that from you first bank statement after the end of the April tax year. Mine is usually on the May bank statement in the summary section. Just use those figures.
I was an accountant in a previous life and I'd often get audited (investigated). And when small stuff was found to have irregularities, I was never spanked or sent to prison, they'd just ask me to correct it.
If anyone had never put down interest as a profit, from their current account, and you were audited, they'd just ask you to go back x amount of years and pay the trifling sum you owe, I'm sure.
Small errors won't be confused with the more obvious illegal stuff.
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I was a self employed milk man at the age of 19. I made silly money. I got an accountant who did all my accounts for years. My accountant got sent down for fraud. I had to take my accounts to tax office. They said they were no good and had to be re done. They wernt certified or something. Long time ago.
I had to pay another accountant to re do them.
I found out, unless you can claim for things you don't know about, its not worth it. If you screw your accounts up. You wont get sent down. All they are for, is showing your income really. You gain by having an accountant so you can claim for more hidden things.
Big companies are a totally different thing. They will have clerks etc to help in this.
I got visited by the tax man one day. I had
a customer who worked at the petrol station. She gave me a receipt for X amount. He pulled out that 1 receipt out of hundreds, many from the same place. These guys are good
The only window cleaner I know who has been investigated was in a position similar to yourself; he used a dodgy accountant who was caught and everyone 'on his books' received a tax investigation.
He's been a window cleaner for must be around 25-30 years and that was the only investigation he's ever had.
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Many years ago in another business I had a visit from tax man and woman . They came in cup of coffee / tea pointed out error of my ways and off they went simples .
Still wanted their pound of flesh
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Many years ago in another business I had a visit from tax man and woman . They came in cup of coffee / tea pointed out error of my ways and off they went simples .
Still wanted their pound of flesh
The tax man came in your cup of coffee ??
I heard they were sickos , by the sounds of it, it's true ;D
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No think they came in a Mondeo ;D
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;D
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We had an VAT inspection only they dropped a ollock they owed us a load of money ;D, Never had another since :o
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I think when it gets complicated if your VAT or LTD, or you have expenses that are in the realm of other businesses - mine is so straightforward, not taking people out to dinner or going abroad, etc etc, so its quite simple, think I would be reluctant to pay anybody..
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Was talking to a woman on a burger van about accountants next time showed her a blank self assessment form she said she supplied all that info to accountant ( she was even adding up income / expenses ) he was only filling in the boxes and his pockets
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they follow you in umarked cars
Is that the opposite to following you in cars with "TAXMAN" in huge letters on the side?
;D
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Hi
Just an update for anyone who is interested.
I found it a bit tricky as it was the first time filling in the forms and we are a partnership so it's a bit more complicated.
There is a partnership tax return, a partnership statement for each partner and the online self assessment to complete for each partner.
Took about a morning for the paper returns (believe it or not you can't file a partnership tax return online to HMRC you have to buy commercial software). So I sent paper forms to beat the deadline of 31st October.
About a morning for the online self assessment.
Tax bill just about the same as last year, slight increase but I think that's because NI contributions are now collected with your tax return or maybe I could have claimed for a bit more expenses.
Overall, for the time invested and now that I know how to do it quite pleased with saving £450 on the accountants bill and just the same amount of tax to pay! ;D
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Hi
Just an update for anyone who is interested.
I found it a bit tricky as it was the first time filling in the forms and we are a partnership so it's a bit more complicated.
There is a partnership tax return, a partnership statement for each partner and the online self assessment to complete for each partner.
Took about a morning for the paper returns (believe it or not you can't file a partnership tax return online to HMRC you have to buy commercial software). So I sent paper forms to beat the deadline of 31st October.
About a morning for the online self assessment.
Tax bill just about the same as last year, slight increase but I think that's because NI contributions are now collected with your tax return or maybe I could have claimed for a bit more expenses.
Overall, for the time invested and now that I know how to do it quite pleased with saving £450 on the accountants bill and just the same amount of tax to pay! ;D
I thought the deadline was the end of January?
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Yes it is for online.
For paper it's end of October.
I didn't have time to shop for software maybe next year.
Print half a dozen A4 forms.
Proof of postage 95p.
Old fashioned but cheaper. ;D
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Yes it is for online.
For paper it's end of October.
I didn't have time to shop for software maybe next year.
Print half a dozen A4 forms.
Proof of postage 95p.
Old fashioned but cheaper. ;D
Ah.... well done on diying though. It's not difficult if you have the data but people are afraid of it.
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So if your a one man band like me would you get a proper accountant? I have a book keeper who charges me 250 pounds per year but my question is a book keeper just as sufficient as a chartered accountant? I earn less than 50kand not vat registered. I know when I got my mortgage a letter wasn't sufficient from my book keeper as she wasn't a proper accountant so to speak but I don't get a mortgage every day and it takes the stress of working out everything. Mortgage was sorted in the end as just got my SA whatever number forms they are from HMRC.
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Another question guys.... What expenses can us windies claim that we might be missing out? I have a friend who had an accountant and they seem to claim for everything..just making sure my book keeper is claiming everything they can. Equipment,vehicle costs diesel, etc etc. my friend was even going on about taking cash out as a business and an allowance and all that. No idea what he is on about. What could I claim next tax year I may have forgotten? Like I said small fry earner but if u could save a few hundred quid each year. I work off trolley/backpack van is cheap to run. Would there be any point leasing a brand new van for example? Lots of questions but any expenses I may have missed would be great guys :)
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Another question guys.... What expenses can us windies claim that we might be missing out? I have a friend who had an accountant and they seem to claim for everything..just making sure my book keeper is claiming everything they can. Equipment,vehicle costs diesel, etc etc. my friend was even going on about taking cash out as a business and an allowance and all that. No idea what he is on about. What could I claim next tax year I may have forgotten? Like I said small fry earner but if u could save a few hundred quid each year. I work off trolley/backpack van is cheap to run. Would there be any point leasing a brand new van for example? Lots of questions but any expenses I may have missed would be great guys :)
It really depends on how you work, but there are more obscure things that have gone through my accounts over the years - though totally legitimately:
Crowbar. I carry one around with me because, at some jobs, I lean over the side gate on a stepladder and need it to reach and unhook the bolt. It's the only use I put it to.
Sunglasses. Since switching to WFP, I need to look up more. This can be uncomfortable or even dangerous without proper sunglasses.
Detergent - although not using much with WFP, a very few windows and some inside cleaning requires it still.
Costs for washing work clothes and cleaning cloths.
Electricity/heating for doing accounts - moreso if you put a room aside especially for this.
Stationery.
Phone (proportion?).
Battery charger.
Assortment of small tools such as screwdrivers/scissors/sharp knife/hammer/bradawl etc. I have used all of these in maintaining WFP at some point.
Minor bits and bobs like jubilee clips/glue/tape/water and electrical connectors.
Some of the things that involve home use/ washing clothes etc. may fall under a reasonable "fixed cost" for simplification. I used to keep receipts for (proportions of) washing powder, washing machine repairs etc. but I'm told this is no longer necessary.
Things that others might claim for:
Spouse's "wages" if she doesn't already earn her full tax-free allowance.
Banking charges.
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Thank Walty. I think i have a lot of this covered. Would there be any point changing over from my book keeper to a actual accountant? Or is it just unnecessary expense? I'm only a sole trader so perhaps it's fine with just the book keeper and just keep as many receipts as possible. I think she does claim a small amount for one room where i live. I think the main expenses is if you buy a vehicle which really helps keep the costs down. I don't know whether it would be worth buying a new one for the sake of it and i think you can claim 25% per year for a vehicle or something like that.
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Most window cleaning software allows for tips so we add them into our annual turnover and declare them as a lump sum.
A customer gives you a bottle of wine which occasionally happens at this time of the year. How do you declare that?