Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: cleaning co on May 08, 2006, 09:48:58 am
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hi folks ,as i am moving abroad in under 3 months i havnt been pushing the cleaning just working of old custys and toms and yellow pages etc etc but can say the last 2 months hav been slowest ever for me in over 10 years of cleaning anyone esle the same ? i only do domestic work
cheers gary
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Gary, yes i agree with you........it is quite :o
Dave
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I have to say that on the leather side of things, cleaning, restoration and repair we have never been busier, we are contacted all the time by the public for people that can clean leather and don't know where to go.
Regards
Judy
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just to reply to your comments judy, i put leather cleaning in my adds and can say i get asked to clean leather once a year
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Same here, I've quoted 3 leathers since I started and haven't got one of them. I think most people with leather sofa's will give it a go themselves because the products to do it are so readily available from supermarkets.
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The problem is that the products from supermarkets generally don't work (or at the worst do damage to the leather) When we put our product line on the market we were actually asked by the suppliers of the raw product whether we wanted it to do anything or not! That is how the general products are done so cheaply, many of them are just water with a small amount of detergent in them.
When you are marketing leather cleaning you have to educate the public about why it needs doing and the importance of protecting it that way you will generate business. Many of the shops tell customers when they purchase leather that it does not need cleaning, this is nonsense and done by the shops to prevent any comebacks, the truth is that if nothing is done the leather will deteriorate (very rapidly in some cases) and will become beyond cleaning or even repair. When customers are made aware of this they are only too willing to look after their investment. It is important that you can convey these messages to your customers in order to win the cleaning contracts.
When you are doing your carpet cleaning you must be seeing leather in peoples houses (over 50% of all furniture is leather and over 65% of all houses have an item of leather furniture in them) it is then that you need to sieze the opportunity to market your services to them. Make it a prominent part of your business and not just a by line and you will soon see the difference.
Regards
Judy
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judy no way is there a market for cleaning leather sofas like there is for carpet and say cotten sofas if this was the case i would get 50% of my calls say out of the thoms asking for thier leather sofa to be cleaned this would be the first heading in a thom that someone wanting thier leather sofa cleaned would turn too , leather sofas take years to look dirty not like carpets and cotten sofas people pick up the phone and thom book when they can see they are dirty thats y 999 out 1000 calls out of the directoires are for carpets and cotten/draylon sofas etc and not leather when u spill something on leather u just wipe it off , are u not just creating a market for leather cleaning training for a service very rarely used ? just my opion
gary
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To be honest Judy, is that the sort of company you want making your product :o
Do you want it to work or not LMAO, you mean there are cleaning products out there that don't work ::) What can you mean :P
After we have paid for the leather training how much extra to use your logo to say we have been taught?
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Ive been in businees for 14 months now and done one leather suite!
Its in my Yellow Pages, leaflets, and other advertising, but it's a no go for me ???
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it be nice to c some comments of this from guys who hav join up with this leather cleaning firm as long as they speak the truth lol mind, its intresting to see on judys site that they are selling thier prouducts to joe public and telling them how to use them etc dos this not make their cleaning tecs not used ?
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Hi
The products we supply do work but we were offered ones at a much cheaper price that don't do anything, we would not even consider the cheaper products as we supply both to technical and domestic markets and need to prove to all our clients, furniture restorers, retailers, cleaners etc that our products do what they are supposed to.
Supplying the public directly does not detract from people using specialist cleaners it just means that we are able to educate the public properly about the products they should be using and why, it also allows the customer to treat their furniture correctly in between having it cleaned professionally which we recommend them to do once a year.
Maybe having a bit more confidence in the product you are cleaning will help with your marketing.
I did not say that 50% of the cleaning market was for leather I said that 50% of the furniture market is leather therefore the leather must be out there somewhere. Leather does not take longer to look dirty, there are many cream coloured suites on the market which need protecting as soon as they are bought and need regular cleaning to maintain them, people only end up asking for it to be cleaned when it is too late because they have not been educated. Spills can be just wiped off some leathers and certainly those that have been protected but there are many leathers out there where spills will soak straight in and need to be dealt with.
We are not just creating a market for the courses, we have done our research and know that there is a need for it and know from the contact we have from cleaners who have done the course that they are very busy once they have got their marketing right.
The use of our logo costs £15.00 once you have completed the course.
We now have a large network of cleaners on our books who we are beginning to pass regular work to.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy please dont take this the wrong way but i have been in this business
on my own for about 12 yrs now. In that time i have cleaned a number of leather suites, so farr and i know i am tempting fate by saying this i have not come accross any problems. My question to you is if i came on one of your courses what good would it do me, you say you pass work on, could you tell us
how much for example, and how these members of the general puplic know about youreselves in the first place. My reason for asking these questions is not to try and put you down but to simply assertane as to weather spending money coming on one of your courses would benefit me, ie would i in the long run be able to make more money over and above what i do at the moment.
Take Care John
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Ok, I have a few questions.
Why would I want a leather cleaner to come and clean my sofa when I have maintained it myself all year!! That really doesn't make sense at all to me, sorry.
I would also strongly refute that supplying the public doesn't detract from your commercial sales. It simply must do, and with the information on your site and the educating you have done to the general public, again they just do not need an extra clean from a qualified leather person.
All replies so far have stated that we just aren't asked to clean leather often enough to warrant the extra cost of a course. I don't think that has anything to do with the confidence in the products they are using. I have a couple of bottles of Alltec leather cream, I have only used it on my car seats, it worked very well and was simply 'rub on, rub off', it is very easy but time consuming.
I am not trying to be hostile, just pointing out what I think are obvious discrepancies.
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As I have said previously my training in Leather Cleaning lasted about 30 minutes at Ashby's as part of their three day course.
I know that Alltec do a half day course, and believe The leather training centres course is two days.
Is there any where else.?
Regarding Judys comment about marketing Leather Cleaning when Auditing or cleaning carpet or doing the ironing etc
Yes we should all be looking for additional opportunities.
Perhaps Judy or someone could give us the Key benefits to the customer in having a technician clean their leather suite.
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During a phone call last week someone mentioned to me that microsplitters work very well cleaning leather. As I was sat on a leather chair at the time I got a micro fibre cloth and cleaned it. It looked clean and I was surprised at how much muck came off using just Zap-it. It was very quick and easy and there appears to be no damage to the chair. It was also recommended I conditioned the chair afterwards, but I haven't again it appears OK. I cleaned the whole chair in about 5 minutes
I'm not endorsing this method and I only used it on an office chair, but it worked.
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judy,
from the customers point of view, they can buy your products, or use a techicion to do the work USING THE SAME PRODUCTS
targetting domestic and commercial seems to me to conflict, ie. i would be interested how many calls your techicions get from your website surly potential customers will think they'll save some money and do it them selfs.
also since there are instructions to encourage them to do exactly that.
imo there is very very little demand for leather cleaning techicions, any customers of mine with leather upholstery (and theres lots) when i've discussed cleaning with them always tell me they have bought a cleaner to do it themselfs.
i note on your 'find a techicion' you point out your no part of the service they provide and cannot endorse the service they recieve, i think that is unneccasary and does the techicion no favours, and does not protect you in a legal sense anyway, work carried out by another company you cannot be held responseable for just because you have listed there services.
maybe you should just target the public, you maybe better off heading in one direction, thats not intented as critism. but targetting more specifically the market were the main demand is may be a better approuch.
regards craig
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Hi
Thank you for all your comments I will try and answer tham one by one
Leather should be maintained on a regular basis throughout the year. If you use our consumer products which consist of a Soft Cleaner and Protector you are a) adding moisture back into the leather and b) cleaning surface dirt off which eventually would soak in and do damage then you are protecting the leather to inhibit staining and dirt soaking into the leather.
The idea of then having a professional clean is because the cleaners we sell to technicians are a stronger detergent which we sell to technicians because they can be more aware of the effects it is having and resolve any problems that there might be. Our consumer products would not deal with things like dye transfer which could then be dealt with by the professional cleaner. This is how many of our cleaners operate and find it very successful.
You really do have to understand the nature of leather (it is totally different to fabric) to be able to clean it confidently and understand what all the different products do (Strong Cleaner, Maxi Cleaner, Alcohol Cleaner, Removers and Finishes). Without the knowledge of leather and leather products you cannot speak or sell your services confidently to your customer or understand the results you will get on the different finishes.
Cream cleaners can build up a residue on leather and do long term damage so generally are not recommended.
The key benefits of having a trained cleaner to clean leather are that they will understand the type of leather (finish) they are dealing with and clean or restore it accordingly.They will be able to spot any potential problems that the customer may be facing (fading, cuts, scratches, colour loss, dye transfer etc) all of which can then be dealt with. They will be able to converse with the customer about the type of leather they have purchased and about its on going care, and will be able to deal with all the types of finish that are on the market of which there are hundreds.
Microsplitters may work but as yet have not been tested and until this has happened we would not recommend their use. We tested a micro fibre sponge at Carpex and yes it did appear that it pulled out lots of dirt, what in fact was happening is that it was removing finish and pigment from the leather and leaving the leather open to dirt. This is exactly the reason you have to understand how to recognise what is going on and that people should use cleaners who know and understand leather. As you say it 'appears' to have done no damage but in fact it probably has. Again the need to understand how to recognise what is going on. Conditioning again is something that is debatable, please see our article on 'To feed or Protect' which I think was posted a while ago.
The products we sell consumers are a milder form and they cannot do any harm with them but it does do the leather good, the protector they should always be using on a regular basis anyway.
Leather cleaning is hard work but straightforward once you understand the principles but we would expect it to take between 2-4 hours depending on the size. This is why we sell products to consumers, they will not spend this sort of time doing a really good clean but can use our products to give it a general wipe down between your visits.
As leather specialists we target all aspects of the market as we are trying to educate everyone, there is little or no good advice given to the public when they buy their suite for many reasons.
Our leather cleaners are very busy as our leather technicians and specialists who we now have all over the country. The directory part of our site is about to be revamped and dealt with in a different format but at the moment anyone can advertise on it which is why we put a disclaimer, anyone who has done our course has our logo added to their details so that people can see that they have been trained.
Hope this answers all your questions and thanks for all the phone calls today from people enquiring about courses.
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Hi Judy please dont take this the wrong way but i have been in this business
on my own for about 12 yrs now. In that time i have cleaned a number of leather suites, so farr and i know i am tempting fate by saying this i have not come accross any problems. My question to you is if i came on one of your courses what good would it do me, you say you pass work on, could you tell us
how much for example, and how these members of the general puplic know about youreselves in the first place. My reason for asking these questions is not to try and put you down but to simply assertane as to weather spending money coming on one of your courses would benefit me, ie would i in the long run be able to make more money over and above what i do at the moment.
Take Care John
John the course is defiantly worth going on I cleaned leather for a while but learnt so much on the course eg,repairing cigarette burns, repairing scratches/cuts and how to restore aniline leather Knowledge is a great thing I collected a rug today and the lady had a leather suite,I asked what she used to clean it "baby wipes" came the reply going back next week to clean plus sold her a leather cleaning kit. I was more confident talking about the cleaning process and it instilled confidence in the customer.
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Hampshire, Berks, Middlesex, Herts, Bedfordshire, Essex, Suffolk and London seem to be taken by just one company, and so many areas remain unfilled.
Looks like you pay to go into the directory and anyone can join, what is there to stop me adding my name? The only difference would be I don't get a logo, but until you pointed that out I had no idea, I just presumed they were recommended by the LTT because they had trained them.
You do sell repair kits to the general public, that is not obvious from your reply, that states they would need a trained leather professional.
You also say that cream cleaners build up residue, but who knows that!! I didn't and neither would any potential customers. Are you saying my Alltec cream cleaner is actually damaging to leather sofa's?
Do the general public who buy your products know they are getting sn inferior cleaner, again that is not obvious from the website where it looks like there is only the one product, it doesn't mention different strengths.
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It does mention different strengths soft and strong cleaner
http://www.lttsolutions.net/products.asp
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Yes, one is called soft cleaner, one is called strong cleaner and it looks like its available to everyone. Each bottle doesn't come in different strengths does it?
Judy's answer made me think there is a general public range and a technician range, there are also various other kits available to everyone.
I'm not trying to be a pain, there are just things here that do not add up to me that I am trying to clarify.
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**The key benefits of having a trained cleaner to clean leather are that they will understand the type of leather (finish) they are dealing with and clean or restore it accordingly.They will be able to spot any potential problems that the customer may be facing (fading, cuts, scratches, colour loss, dye transfer etc) all of which can then be dealt with. They will be able to converse with the customer about the type of leather they have purchased and about its on going care, and will be able to deal with all the types of finish that are on the market of which there are hundreds. **
judy, so why not put that on your website?
i think you really know your subject give good advice regarding leather cleaning and maintainence,
its just the concept of selling to both commercial / domestic im uncorfortable with, from one website, how can you be a supplier to the industry and retailer to domestic, with the same product. your sales to domestic takes sales from the industry.
i think selling soley to industry would increase sales overall long term, as then all the small companies advertising these services will increase awareness in the public, therefore doing your job for you.
a bit like say, prochems 'protection' leaflets, by helpling us sell protection, THEY SELL MORE PROTECTION.
ITS IN YOUR INTEREST TO HELP TECHICIONS SELL.
the way your set up is selling to techicions, then taking business from them by selling domestic. there in absolutly a conflict there.
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We do not take work away from technicans.
Most of our technicians carry leather care kits with them as Steve Gunn does and he finds this a good thing to do. He also makes some extra money by selling the kits on.
Our website is being revamped and I will take your suggestions on board and make it more obvious.
We have never found a conflict between consumers and technicans products and have sold far more since technicans found the benefits of carrying them with them as they are always asked by their customers where the kits can be bought. Thsi makes sure they use the right products and not the cheap alternatives which will do them no good.
Our technicans site is hidden from the public so there is no conflict over price. There are many more technical products available and we only sell the basics to consumers.
Yes we do sell Strong Cleaner to consumers but only when we have spoken to them to make sure they are using it properly and with care. We speak to all our customers who order product personally.
Regards
Judy
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I think the opportunity to clean leather will increase and should not be dismissed lightly, after all 10 years ago you couldn’t get a leather suite under a £1500 now every suite retailer has a range from £500 upwards. there’s loads now on the market and its increasing all the time as Polish leather is flooding the market, as we get a few years down the line all the suites sold in the last 5 years will need cleaning. I am seriously considering the training course which Judy is promoting. Having read posts of people who have been on the course give it the thumbs up. I am sure it will be a worth while addition to your Marketing. “Fully trained Leather Technician” as for the products I don’t see a problem in selling it to both trade and public, every one else does. I would think if you specifically targeted leather you would get work. Kind regards Phil
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i agree its a growing market, esp. people being annoyingly pratical these days, like lammitnate flooring, lol
it just from what i see, (i admit i've not read in full the website) i think maybe LTT should place themselfs more behind the techicions.
but, if there finding that its working as they are, maybe im wrong.
regards craig.
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Thanks for your comments
If the public can see that we sell to both the best trained technicans and themselves it gives them more confidence in the products, which is how the technicians sell their kitson, if the customer sees the product working they like to buy it for themselves.
We offer huge support to our technicans as anyone will testify both in product support and technical advice via the website and via our helpline which is available to all technicians who have completed the course. We support technicians and cleaners even when they are on site and need help.
Like our consumer products our technical products are tried and tested products drawn from the best products available.
Regards
Judy
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Judy
I have a black soft leather suite, and The Cleaner which I use (Prochem) is causing dye transfer to the cloth....any suggestions as to what I could use, that wouldnt cause this? I'm guessing their conditioner wont do any harm.
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This very much depends on what type of leather you have. Some aniline leathers do tend to bleed dye when they are cleaned. If it is a pigmented leather it would suggest that you have a problem with the finish and it has not been sealed properly
If you want to discuss the problem further you could give us a ring as it is difficult to guide the questioning on the forum.
Hope this hepls
Regards
Judy
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Hold on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the 22 years I've been in this industry, one of the things that has, initially concerned me, then amused, me, is the availability of domestic products which are targeted at consumers;-
Starting with hugely successfull ( in sales terms ) VAX
I have come accross dozens of those...........in cupboards
Currently, there are a number of, so called professional machines, with heat, with brushes, with Scotchguard, and judging by B&Q, Makro, etc, they are selling well.
This will account for quite a bit of the lost business and laminate, unfortunately, is still selling.
Marketing the health benefits of carpeting won't work, as the problem is more a combination of '' ease of maintenance ''which is very difficult to argue with.
Modern attitudes and behaviour is influenced, hugely, by TV programmes and the marketing of products by IKEA, B&Q, ETC.
However, there are still a lot of people buying carpets and suites.
ROB M
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Judy,
Why not post the dates of The Courses held at your centre in Harrogate in the events section.
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Will do that thanks Ian
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I'm getting a few calls through for leather, having done a half day course in cleaning it (in my opinion a waste of time, no information on removing ink or dye transfer was given),I still feel that thorough training in the area is the best way to go and I will be attending a course as soon as I can find the time.
Recently I was talking to a branch manager for a major national retailer who gave me some sales figures for leather suites,over 55% of stock going through there was leather, which means that there is a market for it, maybe its a case of waiting until the suites are out of the insurance period ( they offer a 3 year deal), some will get thrown out as fashions change but many people ( like myself) are too tight to keep swapping and changing ;D, Andy
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Hi Andy
Cleaning will not be covered by most warranties, in fact you will find that a lot of them do not cover a lot of what customers expect them to.
Can you let me know what you are need ing the photos for and we may be able to help.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy,im after one or two pics to swap into black and white format, so maybe something tan or slightly darker would do,it needs to have a slight sheen to it, or if its a "work in progress" a noticable difference in colour, probably pigmented or aniline would best suit the purpose, many thanks for your help, much appreciated, Andy
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Hi
Myself and Steve have just attended this course .I have been knocking back jobs as I have never cleaned leather before as I was not trained nor had the knowledge where to start . Before I started carpet cleaning and as most people are advised on here I done the NCCA course , which helped give me the confidence to do the job. I looked at the leather cleaning the same way , learn how to do it properly. The LTT course not only gave me that but other skills that I don't think I would have got anywhere else. The hands on training on ink removal, scratch / tear repair and restoration are skills in themselves and an add on to anyone's business. If you don't think its worth it then don't go but don't start crying when it goes wrong . Knowledge is good but skills and knowledge are what you get when you have done this course . I for one found it worth every penny.
P.S Just raided Leatherland and Dfs for loads of samples to practice my new skills on ;D
tihson
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OK. Sounds good.
How much is the course?
Cheers.
Rab
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Hi Rab
2 Day course at Harrogate was £350.00 + VAT
LTT 3 repair kit (large) £395.00 + VAT
B+B- £96
Chinese meal - £11.65
Petrol- £45
Finding out Steve Gunn is a Blue Nose - Priceless ;D
tihson
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tihson what do you think to your mattress cleaning machine?
do you find much work for it?
Shaun
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Hi Shaun
I get small amounts of work from it but to be honest if you were thinking of buying it i would advise against it . I have spoken to several people who have bought it and they all struggle to find business. I only use it as an add on and if I get a job then its easy money for 20 mins work.
tihson
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Hi all,
Back to the original post....
I've had the best couple of days since I started. More enquiries in 2 days than I normally get in a week and booked jobs in for the rest of this week (and Satuday) and most of next and a few for after. I can't explain it, perhaps its the nice weather!
Long may it continue!!!
Kind regards,
Jason.
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its still slow in Essex ??? seems its not picked up we do lots of adds :-\
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Seems to be a lot of negativity regarding cleaning leather suites. ie "we dont get many" Cleaning Co only got ONE last year ! Well you must be going wrong somewhere mate !
I too am a carpet and Upholstery cleaner and yes I do put advertise the fact (only small mind) that I clean leather.
I'm Cleaning on average about 1 a WEEK.
Next week I've got 3 booked in !!!
Lets not knock it...many of my competitors dont even attempt it...probably cos its hard work and requires more time than a normal suite..but they're the ones missing out on hard earned cash
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Hi all,
Back to the original post....
I've had the best couple of days since I started. More enquiries in 2 days than I normally get in a week and booked jobs in for the rest of this week (and Satuday) and most of next and a few for after. I can't explain it, perhaps its the nice weather!
Long may it continue!!!
Kind regards,
Jason.
They want to get it done before you disappear for a month in front of the telly for the World Cup. ;D
I'm busy too, 2 jobs Saturday and well busy next week.
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Hi Dennis,
I hadn't thouht of that, perhaps words got out that I like football a little bit! Ive thought about sticking one of those mini televisions to my wand so I don't miss a game ;D
Glad you're busy as well, must get round to that coffee soon.....
Kind regards,
Jason.
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and a glass or two of Craftex MS. ;)
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=19591.20
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For sure mate, I'll drink anything me......... hiccup :P
Sorry hadn't seen that post!
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They want to get it done before you disappear for a month in front of the telly for the World Cup.
I'd of thought that once England were out things would get back to normal, wont be stopped for too long then ;D, Andy
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You're probably right Andy, nice to dream though eh!
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Might as well put the East Dereham over 60's landmine victims 11 out there, at least they wont want expensive hotels and money for the odd miskick that might hit the back of the net ;D
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im gonna watch every game every day/ for the first two weeks there is a game each day at 2oclock so i will be done by one ;)
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What a good idea, I never thought of that! I've just marked up my diary as booked every afternoon for the fortnight!