Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richard groves on August 24, 2015, 12:32:58 pm
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Have just changed to a ford ranger.
I bought a new split charge relay because the old one in my previous van was not fitted by me and for the price of the new one with simple fitting instructions seemed the sensible way to go.
Its this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151550930756?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
and I use this style of battery connectors to a 110 ah leisure battery
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-24v-QUICK-RELEASE-SNAP-ON-CAR-VAN-TRUCK-BATTERY-CONNECTORS-CLAMPS-/390705101128?hash=item5af7d6b948
All fitted as per instructions - earthed to chassis, positive connected from engine battery to leisure battery with the 20 amp fuse just after and before both terminal connections.
I have a 10 amp inline fuse connected to a mk1 ecoflo analogue flow controller but with the scr connected it continually blows fuses. Should I put a higher rated fuse in or is there something obvious I have overlooked ?
Hoping Ian sheppard may read this and have the answer.
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I think i have the same one (not 100% sure though!)
Mine is wired -
Van battery - positive (fused) & negative wires - split charger - positive wire (fused - leisure battery - leisure battery (earthed to van floor)
Is that the same as yours?
Check your fuse holders have decent connections
And check your earths have decent connections
Check the positive connections, if they're getting hot you may have a dodgy connection...
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Thanks for reply Don Kee
Mine has no need or instruction for a negative connection from the van battery.
It goes, positive lead from van battery 20 amp fuse to scr earthed and positive lead 20 amp fused just before leisure battery positive connection.
On the same qr positive leisure battery connection are two positive leads, one feeding a low voltage light and one feeding the flow controller ( both have negative connections from leisure battery also )
The positive lead to the flow controller has always had an inline fuse 10 amp and it is this that keeps blowing as soon as the engine is started. In the meantime I have just removed the first 20 amp fuse from the positive cable as it comes off the van battery to feed the scr so I can work but living in a first floor flat, I'm not going to want to be lugging a battery indoors to charge overnight every couple of days for too long :(
could it be the qr battery connection that is the problem ? e.g. if the positive from scr and positive from leisure battery are connected on to the same clamp its not trickle feeding the leisure battery but delivering too much current to the flow controller feed and blowing the fuse ?
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It would seem that once you're scr kicks in, your battery is giving out a surge of power...
Got to be honest,electrics aren't my forte (spruce & ian sheppard will be your point of call) but i would maybe try another battery (maybe a car battery or if you have an old one knocking about) so you can see if its a fault with the battery..?
If it happens with another battery than it'll be somewhere on wiring, but if it doesn't happen then your leisure batt maybe on the blink...
(Personally i reckon a dodgy earth somewhere)
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I might be right but you have a 30 amp relay and a 20 amp fuse and the alternator might be 35/40 amp. It does seem strange. But wait for Spruce he will tell you the facts.
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Hi Barry
From the information you have given and the fact the controller will operate with the SCR shut down (Fuse removed) would point to a fault with the wiring in off the split charge relay. The description seems to suggest that the two battery positives are connected directly? The relay should be between these two positives.
I am also confused as to where the earth connections are. I suspect the fault is an earth fault somewhere.
When the SCR is in line with the engine on there is a large current spike that is taking out the 10amp fuse. I would suggest contacting an auto electrician so the can check the connections between the batteries and SCR.
Please do not increase the fuse ratings as this would just mask the fault and you will short out the controller. The controller is rated to 10 amps so the fuse you have before the controller is the max you would want to fit. I also feel that 20 amps between the battery and SCR is probably to high with a 10 amp being better.
I am away for a few days holiday and may not be able to access CIU later.
Cheers
Ian
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Have you connected an earth lead from the negative terminal of your leisure battery to the chassis/body of your pickup?
The fuse rating of 20 amps is fine as the cabling and SCR is rated at 30 amps.
The fuse blowing through to your controller shouldn't be anything to do with the SCR. Have you connected the controller up correctly? Positive to positive and negative to negative. That would blow a fuse. Reversing polarity is something that can happen quite easily.
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This is the split charge relay in the engine bay earthed with a tek screw to the body work
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Have you connected an earth lead from the negative terminal of your leisure battery to the chassis/body of your pickup?
No spruce I have not.
Feel a bit stupid now if that is the problem ? :-\ :-X
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Hi Barry
From the information you have given and the fact the controller will operate with the SCR shut down (Fuse removed) would point to a fault with the wiring in off the split charge relay. The description seems to suggest that the two battery positives are connected directly? The relay should be between these two positives.
I am also confused as to where the earth connections are. I suspect the fault is an earth fault somewhere.
When the SCR is in line with the engine on there is a large current spike that is taking out the 10amp fuse. I would suggest contacting an auto electrician so the can check the connections between the batteries and SCR.
Please do not increase the fuse ratings as this would just mask the fault and you will short out the controller. The controller is rated to 10 amps so the fuse you have before the controller is the max you would want to fit. I also feel that 20 amps between the battery and SCR is probably to high with a 10 amp being better.
I am away for a few days holiday and may not be able to access CIU later.
Cheers
Ian
Thanks for the reply Ian, am i right in thinking my old faithful mk1 ecoflo analogue controller is one of your original crow electro ones ?
Glad I have not already upped the fuse as I thought you would suggest against it.
The scr is between the two positives in the engine bay and earthed to the body there.
However as Spruce has just pointed out, I have not earthed the leisure battery to the bodywork.
I know I really should have called an auto electrician as I know very little about electrics but I was just following very simple instructions supplied with the new scr.
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Have you connected an earth lead from the negative terminal of your leisure battery to the chassis/body of your pickup?
No spruce I have not.
Feel a bit stupid now if that is the problem ? :-\ :-X
Don't feel stupid.
Sometimes the instructions are written by people who forget to include the basics.
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This is the split charge relay in the engine bay earthed with a tek screw to the body work
I don't have the instructions to your SCR.
However, it looks very much like its made by the same manufacturers as the TEC2 (alternator switched) and TEC2M (self switching.)
On the TEC2 I have in front of me, the cable running to the leisure battery is joined in at position 6. I have a feeling the Position 2 on this relay was to the fridge and position 4 was a direct line from the vehicle battery.
Remember that these are relays primarily used for caravaners, so position 4 would be a direct line to the caravan's interior lights although most would have a leisure battery so this wouldn't be used.
However, its nice to know, because if you leisure battery should go flat and you still have work to finish off, moving the positive wire to your controller from your leisure battery to this position 4 will allow you to use the vehicles battery to drive your pump.
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Thank you Spruce ;)
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- leisure battery (earthed to van floor)
I should have read your first reply properly Don Kee
I must have had a day of daftness ::)roll
Thanks everybody for your help ;)
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Hi Barry yes thats one of the early controls. Not made them for a good while. Agree with Speuce. No need to feel silly better to ask before theres is an issue than after.
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No worries matey, hopefully its sorted :)
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Earthed the leisure battery to van floor, scr fuse in engine bay re fitted, fuse to controller now blows instantly with a spark from the positive terminal of leisure battery as I put the connector back on ??? I obviously do not have a clue what I am doing wrong :(
For now, I have removed all connections for the scr just so I can get some work done.
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Ok, so I have just looked at Mark Munroes video on youtube re fitting a scr for window cleaning.
It must be connections or possibly earth fault somewhere.
Its been raining constantly and I'm fed up with crawling about in the back of a pick up wiring and rewiring !
So I've now ordered one of these instead for the mean time or possibly permanently if any good.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281778971867?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Reason being I like the portability of it ( can bring in of a frosty night from the pick up )and if need be can replace my old backpack if it fails, plus I will still have a spare leisure battery, controller and pump . And all thats left in the back is a tank and reel that can also easily be removed if I fancied a week away camping / mtn biking etc. ;)
Spruce, I have a question for you.
Can I use the wiring already in place and the scr to power a low voltage led strip light and switch that I have just fitted in the hard top canopy of the pick up without the leisure battery ?
You mentioned before about position 4 being a direct line from van battery for caravan lights.
The light flex has a positive and negative, what do I do with the negative ?
Thanks if you can help ;)
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I'd just wire the low voltage LED to the van bat if you're also fitting a switch, as once the switch is off it wont draw power
In regards to the scr, are you sure you dont have some dodgy wiring somewhere if you think that all your earths are ok?
Bare in mind, the wiring up to the fuse that keeps blowing maybe screwed now...?
Its odd that it blows the pumps fuse when the scr is on, to me it suggests either a dodgy earth or wiring problem, as it seems when the scr is on you're getting a surge of power
Spruce knows his stones though so hopefully will help you out!
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What I can't understand is why the controller and pump works when the SCR isn't connected.
We had a short once that melted both the positive and negative wires together going to the controller so that was our problem.
When I wired up son in laws van we initially wanted to use the van's battery. But we latter fitted a leisure battery with a SCR. I also forgot to earth the leisure battery, so I know from experience that the controller still worked the pump but the alternator didn't charge the leisure battery.
Once I had identified the issue everything worked perfectly. The only thing that can cause a fuse to blow is either a short or reversed polarity, but then why would the pump work fine until the scr is connected up?
If you take off the controller wiring and the battery is showing a high voltage of between 13.8 and 14.5 vdc across the battery when the engine is running then the battery is being charged by the van's alternator. I would then systematically go through the wiring from the battery to the controller and look for problems. I like to use 2 core house hold appliance cable as its neat and tidy, but if there has been a short before a fuse, then the wires can melt together and not be detected by a quick inspection.
Has the controller been wired correctly? The reason why I ask is that I had an old Spring controller and the + wire from the battery wasn't red. There was a few wires that were all the same colour. The were numbered by little tags. Loose the tags and you had a problem.
Later Spring controllers were wired better. Your controller dates back to the Crow days so I have no idea of their wiring at all.
Yes you can take a live wire from terminal 4, but you will need an on/off switch.
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I would remove the wiring for the controller and pump.
I would then wire up a 'test bench' using your leisure battery. There will be a cable joiners joining the pump to the controller. Cut those off and strip them back so you can put the black cable to the negative and the red cable to the positive. Make sure there is a fuse in the positive cable. If you touch the wires onto the terminals that pump should run. If you start the engine the same thing should happen. The fuse should not blow.
Check the wires to the controller for damage. I would replace them. I would also try to ascertain that my wiring to and from the controller is correct. (We use Varistreams and they use red wire from the battery to the controller and red from the controller to the pump. They also use black from the battery to the controller and black from the controller to the pump. You have to identify which is which by looking at the labels next to each connector. )
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Thanks Spruce for taking the time.
The controller and pump are wired up on a board removed from my old van, was working perfectly before with the old scr and have not needed to re wire anything.
When I tried to fit that scr in the new truck ( I worked methodically same as it was in the old van ) I ran into same problems as above, blowing the controller fuse. So I bought a new scr with instructions ( logically thinking that would sort any confusion on my part ).
The fuse connectors supplied with the scr kit are the type that cut through the cable insulation when you snap them together.
The earth connections are crimped rings tek screwed to bodywork, because they self tap and cut their own hole into the metal, I have not sanded back paintwork to bare metal - could that be possible reason for a bad earth ?
Regarding terminal 4 and the light
the light is already wired in with a switch on the positive cable and connected to the leisure battery + and - by 2 core household electric cable.
If I'm understanding correctly I can use the already fitted fused positive cable from the scr to connect to the positive of the light ( what was connected to leisure battery ) and just change it at the scr to terminal 4.
But what happens to the negative cable of the light ?
Please excuse my ignorance :-[
simon
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I would remove the wiring for the controller and pump.
I would then wire up a 'test bench' using your leisure battery. There will be a cable joiners joining the pump to the controller. Cut those off and strip them back so you can put the black cable to the negative and the red cable to the positive. Make sure there is a fuse in the positive cable. If you touch the wires onto the terminals that pump should run. If you start the engine the same thing should happen. The fuse should not blow.
Check the wires to the controller for damage. I would replace them. I would also try to ascertain that my wiring to and from the controller is correct. (We use Varistreams and they use red wire from the battery to the controller and red from the controller to the pump. They also use black from the battery to the controller and black from the controller to the pump. You have to identify which is which by looking at the labels next to each connector. )
You've posted this whilst I was replying above.
Good advice and something I will do when time allows, for the remainder of the week, leisure battery is full and should last me, portable pump/battery box should arrive tomorrow and going to give that a go - tbh if that can withstand my busiest day of 5 hours continual use without running flat it may suffice and will be handy with regards to frost protection in winter as the back of the pick up will not be heated.
Simon
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Thanks Spruce for taking the time.
The controller and pump are wired up on a board removed from my old van, was working perfectly before with the old scr and have not needed to re wire anything.
When I tried to fit that scr in the new truck ( I worked methodically same as it was in the old van ) I ran into same problems as above, blowing the controller fuse. So I bought a new scr with instructions ( logically thinking that would sort any confusion on my part ).
The fuse connectors supplied with the scr kit are the type that cut through the cable insulation when you snap them together.
The earth connections are crimped rings tek screwed to bodywork, because they self tap and cut their own hole into the metal, I have not sanded back paintwork to bare metal - could that be possible reason for a bad earth ?
Regarding terminal 4 and the light
the light is already wired in with a switch on the positive cable and connected to the leisure battery + and - by 2 core household electric cable.
If I'm understanding correctly I can use the already fitted fused positive cable from the scr to connect to the positive of the light ( what was connected to leisure battery ) and just change it at the scr to terminal 4.
But what happens to the negative cable of the light ?
Please excuse my ignorance :-[
simon
Earth is to the body of the vehicle.
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Great Spruce, thought as much but had to check ! :D
Thanks for all your help, will sort where I have gone wrong on the bench when time allows ;)
Simon