Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: slap bash on August 02, 2015, 05:48:31 pm

Title: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: slap bash on August 02, 2015, 05:48:31 pm
Dune a first clean on a contract I have with a TdS of 55 only found out when I went home to produce more pure did I discover my crap water. Never the less the results were very good. I do use   Virasol on the brush as the frames were bad.so expected some spotting but no. Good results P/s for SeanK and Vision always.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: samson on August 02, 2015, 06:38:35 pm
Until the sun comes up ! ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smudger on August 02, 2015, 07:18:25 pm
+1 on that

Darran
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smurf on August 02, 2015, 07:21:24 pm
Until the sun comes up ! ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: SeanK on August 02, 2015, 07:38:03 pm
Yep the only way to truly see the results is from the inside looking out, I will be very surprised if they are spot free
especially in full sun.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: groundhog on August 02, 2015, 08:52:17 pm
I have recently cleaned using water with a tds of 79 due to my membrane being knackered! I have received no complaints, in fact last year I connected the drain water to the tank accidently and used water with a tds of 300! I did however receive a complaint on this day!! But the 8 other customers I did that day did not seem to notice and paid as usual!! I'm beginning to think that having a tds of 0 is unesasary, in fact I may stop using resin as long as I can get the water down to 20 with the RO.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: the king on August 02, 2015, 09:45:36 pm
Yep the only way to truly see the results is from the inside looking out, I will be very surprised if they are spot free
especially in full sun.
+1
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: the king on August 02, 2015, 09:48:38 pm
I have recently cleaned using water with a tds of 79 due to my membrane being knackered! I have received no complaints, in fact last year I connected the drain water to the tank accidently and used water with a tds of 300! I did however receive a complaint on this day!! But the 8 other customers I did that day did not seem to notice and paid as usual!! I'm beginning to think that having a tds of 0 is unesasary, in fact I may stop using resin as long as I can get the water down to 20 with the RO.
:o not all complain some think o that clean was poor but we will c how the next clean is if its bad again we will cancle an make a excuse  ::)roll 008 at the most ide say an thats pushing it
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: SeanK on August 02, 2015, 10:43:43 pm
I have recently cleaned using water with a tds of 79 due to my membrane being knackered! I have received no complaints, in fact last year I connected the drain water to the tank accidently and used water with a tds of 300! I did however receive a complaint on this day!! But the 8 other customers I did that day did not seem to notice and paid as usual!! I'm beginning to think that having a tds of 0 is unesasary, in fact I may stop using resin as long as I can get the water down to 20 with the RO.
:o not all complain some think o that clean was poor but we will c how the next clean is if its bad again we will cancle an make a excuse  ::)roll 008 at the most ide say an thats pushing it

That's what some on here seem to forget, just because a customer doesn't complain doesn't mean they are happy
with the service.
Totally agree most fair minded people will give you another chance and some wont even notice a one off poor quality clean.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: SeanK on August 02, 2015, 10:45:02 pm
Also agree that you can clean with water above zero.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: samson on August 02, 2015, 11:46:19 pm
Also agree that you can clean with water above zero.
Never understood this thinking.
The basicS of getting the glass clean is to use pure water with oo TDS,  so why would you want to use higher and risk doing a rubbish job ?
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: the king on August 03, 2015, 06:08:19 am
my tds went to 027 once buy mastake and it was hot day when i was walking around the bunglow wiping sills i saw spotting on some of the windows not all but some so i had to squeeqe them off i then checked my tds an thault o dear it was at the end of the day that morning 2nd job one of my custmers said the glass doesent look very good i checked from the inside an u could c spotting on every window at the back i rerinsed an  left, u couldent c the spotting from the out side on this job , morrel of the story check tds every tank fill an dont go above 003  008 at a absoult push
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smudger on August 03, 2015, 08:11:23 am
Also agree that you can clean with water above zero.
Never understood this thinking.
The basicS of getting the glass clean is to use pure water with oo TDS,  so why would you want to use higher and risk doing a rubbish job ?

because there is a tolerance, 000 is perfect ( not taking into account poor technique ) but 001 wouldn't mean disaster.

It's knowing where the upper safe level is.  From experience high 20's to low 30's start to produce spotting
So the highest we clean with is 012 that gives a safety buffer between good cleans and the point where spotting may start

Darran
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: SeanK on August 03, 2015, 08:19:41 am
Also agree that you can clean with water above zero.
Never understood this thinking.
The basicS of getting the glass clean is to use pure water with oo TDS,  so why would you want to use higher and risk doing a rubbish job ?

No the basics of wfp cleaning is to use water that doesn't leave any traces on the glass after it dries, 00tds is just a measure
of conductivity and one that we have been told to use as a rule of thumb.
Doesn't mean you cant go above it without ricking the quality, I have cleaned my own property with a TDS of 10 then examined
the glass very carefully in full sun without seeing a single spot or water mark.
So I now let my TDS go to 10ppm before changing the resin, any less and I'm just throwing away usable resin/money.
I'm not saying you cant go above 10ppm but that's where I have tried it to.
 
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smudger on August 03, 2015, 08:29:01 am
Nice post Sean - well explained

Darran
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smurf on August 03, 2015, 08:47:53 am
I often clean windows with 350 ish ppm with soap in the water too no probs.
They call that traditional cleaning you know. ;D

Regarding wfp work I like to stick to 0 ppm as if I get any issues I can rule out the water being used.
I've found you can clean with higher ppm and get away with it on some jobs but on others like phobic glass you can't really.
Using higher ppm that's when you can start getting bad results and being slap dash gives wfp method a bad name.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: samson on August 03, 2015, 10:34:57 am
I often clean windows with 350 ish ppm with soap in the water too no probs.
They call that traditional cleaning you know. ;D

Regarding wfp work I like to stick to 0 ppm as if I get any issues I can rule out the water being used.
I've found you can clean with higher ppm and get away with it on some jobs but on others like phobic glass you can't really.
Using higher ppm that's when you can start getting bad results and being slap dash gives wfp method a bad name.
Good post from one of the most senior members on here . . . Good your mind is so sharp at your advanced age  ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: slap bash on August 03, 2015, 11:19:17 am
Well the sun was out and i cleaned the inside with no sign of markes. Maybe I am lucky. Normally never clean above 10 .
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: SeanK on August 03, 2015, 12:20:02 pm
I often clean windows with 350 ish ppm with soap in the water too no probs.
They call that traditional cleaning you know. ;D

Regarding wfp work I like to stick to 0 ppm as if I get any issues I can rule out the water being used.
I've found you can clean with higher ppm and get away with it on some jobs but on others like phobic glass you can't really.
Using higher ppm that's when you can start getting bad results and being slap dash gives wfp method a bad name.

What has phobic glass got to do with it? as long as you have removed the dirt then the dirt is gone and any water left on the glass
will then dry spot free doesn't matter if its phobic or not.
Phobic glass only causes problems in dusty conditions where the excess water left on the glass has more time to absorb the dust.
Nothing to do with your tds.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smurf on August 03, 2015, 04:55:41 pm
I often clean windows with 350 ish ppm with soap in the water too no probs.
They call that traditional cleaning you know. ;D

Regarding wfp work I like to stick to 0 ppm as if I get any issues I can rule out the water being used.
I've found you can clean with higher ppm and get away with it on some jobs but on others like phobic glass you can't really.
Using higher ppm that's when you can start getting bad results and being slap dash gives wfp method a bad name.

What has phobic glass got to do with it? as long as you have removed the dirt then the dirt is gone and any water left on the glass
will then dry spot free doesn't matter if its phobic or not.
Phobic glass only causes problems in dusty conditions where the excess water left on the glass has more time to absorb the dust.
Nothing to do with your tds.

Well that told me...what do I know anyways not alot it seems  ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smurf on August 03, 2015, 05:11:42 pm
I would say the reason is phobic glass naturally forms larger water droplets and alot more of them too so is more likely to spot regardless if there is any dirt in the water droplets or not if using a higher ppm.

The higher the ppm water left on the glass the higher the chances of spotting.

Well that's my opinion anyway and I'm sticking to it. ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: NWH on August 03, 2015, 08:17:55 pm
Do you think all your customers check there windows with a magnifying glass I think you'll find on a lot of houses you do there are marks and a few spots in direct sunlight,there's a lot of people out there that will let it go unless they look like your taking the pee. The odd spot in sun is far better than a window that has been cleaned with a dodgy blade with turn marks galore that's for certain.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: dazmond on August 05, 2015, 10:42:24 pm
i switch to double DI when my resin creeps up to 005.i dont see the point in risking leaving spotting on the glass.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Dave Willis on August 05, 2015, 11:07:36 pm
 ???  why don't you use double di all the time?
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: dazmond on August 06, 2015, 08:42:28 am
???  why don't you use double di all the time?

why would you dave?you dont need 2 vessels all the time.only when the single resin vessel tds creeps up then you put a fresh one in front of it to get the most out of the older one.then when the older one reaches your tap tds then bin it and go back to a single vessel until that starts to creep up and the cycle continues.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 06, 2015, 09:19:41 am
I have recently cleaned using water with a tds of 79 due to my membrane being knackered! I have received no complaints, in fact last year I connected the drain water to the tank accidently and used water with a tds of 300! I did however receive a complaint on this day!! But the 8 other customers I did that day did not seem to notice and paid as usual!! I'm beginning to think that having a tds of 0 is unesasary, in fact I may stop using resin as long as I can get the water down to 20 with the RO.
:o not all complain some think o that clean was poor but we will c how the next clean is if its bad again we will cancle an make a excuse  ::)roll 008 at the most ide say an thats pushing it

That's what some on here seem to forget, just because a customer doesn't complain doesn't mean they are happy
with the service.
Totally agree most fair minded people will give you another chance and some wont even notice a one off poor quality clean.

Ive been cleaning with water over 30ppm for a year, I have to blade off a small percentage of glass
normally hydrophobic but  im constantly picking up new work and lose very little....not bad for someone
who only offers a poor quality clean ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 06, 2015, 09:33:27 am
Also agree that you can clean with water above zero.
Never understood this thinking.
The basicS of getting the glass clean is to use pure water with oo TDS,  so why would you want to use higher and risk doing a rubbish job ?

That's because you have been brainwashed into  that thinking by suppliers, do you really think there is
a dramatic difference between using 10 parts per million opposed to zero ;D

Plenty of cleaners local to myself use 00ppm and do an appalling job, I personally think if you use
the correct technique for the situation you should be able to use 10-15ppm with no issues at all on
most glass and if you are talented like myself higher ;)
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smurf on August 06, 2015, 04:54:34 pm
Also agree that you can clean with water above zero.
Never understood this thinking.
The basicS of getting the glass clean is to use pure water with oo TDS,  so why would you want to use higher and risk doing a rubbish job ?

That's because you have been brainwashed into  that thinking by suppliers, do you really think there is
a dramatic difference between using 10 parts per million opposed to zero ;D

Plenty of cleaners local to myself use 00ppm and do an appalling job, I personally think if you use
the correct technique for the situation you should be able to use 10-15ppm with no issues at all on
most glass and if you are talented like myself higher ;)

I must be brainwashed then  ;D

Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Dave Willis on August 06, 2015, 11:19:15 pm
???  why don't you use double di all the time?

why would you dave?you dont need 2 vessels all the time.only when the single resin vessel tds creeps up then you put a fresh one in front of it to get the most out of the older one.then when the older one reaches your tap tds then bin it and go back to a single vessel until that starts to creep up and the cycle continues.

Because your fresh resin would last longer with a knackered bottle before it (provided it was lower than the water going in to it) thus you are only benefiting from a double DI for half the time instead of all the time the way you're doing it now.
Your fresh bottle is being hit with 55tds water or whatever your supply is when it could be hit with 005 from a spent bottle instead.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: dazmond on August 07, 2015, 08:25:34 am
???  why don't you use double di all the time?

why would you dave?you dont need 2 vessels all the time.only when the single resin vessel tds creeps up then you put a fresh one in front of it to get the most out of the older one.then when the older one reaches your tap tds then bin it and go back to a single vessel until that starts to creep up and the cycle continues.

Because your fresh resin would last longer with a knackered bottle before it (provided it was lower than the water going in to it) thus you are only benefiting from a double DI for half the time instead of all the time the way you're doing it now.
Your fresh bottle is being hit with 55tds water or whatever your supply is when it could be hit with 005 from a spent bottle instead.

you really havent a clue have you dave?RE READ MY POST CAREFULLY AND HOPEFULLY ITLL SINK IN MATE! ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: swanson on August 07, 2015, 03:27:15 pm
My tap water is 60 TDS
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Gerald Ash on August 07, 2015, 03:53:14 pm
This is my opinion.
I clean with water upto 10TDS.
I have no problems and every customer is told look after they are dry, any problems let me know and free clean next time.
  As I understand it in theory water under 50 will not be visable but of course either side of 50 will spot/not spot.
 I figure it this way, if I use 000 on the glass, agitate the dirt then rinse the water left on the window is unlikely to be 000.
So if I use water 010 the water left on the glass will be a little higher. More chance of spotting.
 If you rinse to ensure 000 left on window it takes longer. The water is 000 per million so is not totally pure if you measure per billion or trillion.
I double rinse every window but still get spotting every now and then usually because of a vent or forgetting the top of the frame.
Just my opinion.


   
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Soupy on August 07, 2015, 05:04:46 pm
Chunky chunky chunky (gary999). Please stop offering "advice" - you're giving the whole industry a bad name.

Use 000 - nothing else.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smudger on August 08, 2015, 12:26:02 am
Sorry Daz, I think your using the bottles the wrong way round.... ???

Gary, what would be interesting to know is if 30 tds of naturally soft water cleans differently to 30 tds of ro filtered hard water,  as tds is more an indication of conductivity and can be a variety of elements, perhaps different parts of the country could clean with a higher tds reading as it lacked salts which would spot and a higher amount of minerals that possibly do not spot as bad ?

Darran
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Dave Willis on August 08, 2015, 07:12:04 am
That's the conclusion I came to, but I think Dazmond is mixed up between the words "in front"
Even so, I still can't see why he doesn't use a double DI system all the time instead of sometimes  ???

I always have a bottle of semi spent resin before my 000 bottle of resin.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: samson on August 08, 2015, 07:25:42 am
That's the conclusion I came to, but I think Dazmond is mixed up between the words before and after.
Even so, I still can't see why he doesn't use a double DI system all the time instead of sometimes  ???

I always have a bottle of semi spent resin before my 000 bottle of resin.
We do the same, as it makes financial sense to have your old resin acting as a pre-filter before the new DI.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Dave Willis on August 08, 2015, 07:41:33 am
I'm not entirely sure what 'dissolved solids' are for a given area. In my region the water is laced with calcium as it's very hard water with limestone rock everywhere. I don't know what the dissolved solids would be say in Scotland?
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Soupy on August 08, 2015, 07:45:01 am
Special brew?
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: samson on August 08, 2015, 07:47:17 am
 
Special brew?
;D ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: samson on August 08, 2015, 07:48:16 am
Many moons ago I used to drink that stuff, made me do some really weird stuff  :o
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 01:59:56 am
Chunky chunky chunky (gary999). Please stop offering "advice" - you're giving the whole industry a bad name.

Use 000 - nothing else.

Soupy Soupy! over dramatic as per normal ;D

Whether I use tap water at 30ppm or 00ppm is irrelevant...the question is do I leave windows
clean and spot free and the answer is yes.I Guarantee I give a better service than most.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 02:11:11 am
Sorry Daz, I think your using the bottles the wrong way round.... ???

Gary, what would be interesting to know is if 30 tds of naturally soft water cleans differently to 30 tds of ro filtered hard water,  as tds is more an indication of conductivity and can be a variety of elements, perhaps different parts of the country could clean with a higher tds reading as it lacked salts which would spot and a higher amount of minerals that possibly do not spot as bad ?

Darran

Yep would be interesting to find out....water in brum is piped from the elan valley and is really
soft compared to the water supply in the surrounding areas....I have no or little problems with it most of
the year but in the height of summer if it has been dry for a period the TDS rises and I blade evry window after cleaning but this doesn't happen often.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: pure tech on August 09, 2015, 03:24:09 am
I would say the reason is phobic glass naturally forms larger water droplets and alot more of them too so is more likely to spot regardless if there is any dirt in the water droplets or not if using a higher ppm.

The higher the ppm water left on the glass the higher the chances of spotting.

Well that's my opinion anyway and I'm sticking to it. ;D

+1
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Soupy on August 09, 2015, 07:29:38 am
Quote from: gary999
Whether I use tap water at 30ppm or 00ppm is irrelevant

Maybe in your tiny wee brain.

This is a forum where clueless noobs and even more clueless biscuit munchers go to get advice on how to run their business. You, regularly churning out your "I use tap water" nonsense on here isn't helpful. You come over as ridiculous.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: SB Cleaning on August 09, 2015, 08:48:03 am
Quote from: gary999
Whether I use tap water at 30ppm or 00ppm is irrelevant

Maybe in your tiny wee brain.

This is a forum where clueless noobs and even more clueless biscuit munchers go to get advice on how to run their business. You, regularly churning out your "I use tap water" nonsense on here isn't helpful. You come over as ridiculous.
I agree with Soupy

What's the point in advertising "pure" water if it isn't...and Gary I live in Worcester which is only down the road from you and my water out the tap is 245 ppm far from soft...I accidentally let my tds rise to 22 and the results were poor.

Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 10:54:54 am
Quote from: gary999
Whether I use tap water at 30ppm or 00ppm is irrelevant

Maybe in your tiny wee brain.

This is a forum where clueless noobs and even more clueless biscuit munchers go to get advice on how to run their business. You, regularly churning out your "I use tap water" nonsense on here isn't helpful. You come over as ridiculous.
I agree with Soupy

What's the point in advertising "pure" water if it isn't...and Gary I live in Worcester which is only down the road from you and my water out the tap is 245 ppm far from soft...I accidentally let my tds rise to 22 and the results were poor.

Worcestershire water comes from a different source to birminghams matey...its highly possible the
content of the dissolved solids im your water is different to mine.

It works on most glass for myself and where it doesn't I blade dry...I also rainwater harvest  and I get
water between 2ppm and 14ppm.

Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 11:02:06 am
Quote from: gary999
Whether I use tap water at 30ppm or 00ppm is irrelevant

Maybe in your tiny wee brain.

This is a forum where clueless noobs and even more clueless biscuit munchers go to get advice on how to run their business. You, regularly churning out your "I use tap water" nonsense on here isn't helpful. You come over as ridiculous.
Then I will carry on being ridiculas matey :)....im happy doing what im doing and will carry picking
up work...normally from recommendation. :)



Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: tlwcs on August 09, 2015, 12:52:40 pm
My water in b75 is from South staffs and is hard @ 350 ppm
So not all of Birmingham is soft
Tony
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: Smurf on August 09, 2015, 12:57:15 pm
My water in b75 is from South staffs and is hard @ 350 ppm
So not all of Birmingham is soft
Tony

Many areas are like that as water companies have an array of water supplies they can use.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 02:32:42 pm
My water in b75 is from South staffs and is hard @ 350 ppm
So not all of Birmingham is soft
Tony

South Staffs isn't part of Birmingham...Redditch has a Birmingham post code number e.g. B97/B98
but isn't in Birmingham its in Worcestershire, neither get their water supply from the same place
as Birmingham.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: tlwcs on August 09, 2015, 02:53:34 pm
I know but b75 is sutton so is part of Birmingham , there is a small pocket of the area supplied by South staffs water, God know why.
I would love to ditch the RO
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 03:08:17 pm
I know but b75 is sutton so is part of Birmingham , there is a small pocket of the area supplied by South staffs water, God know why.
I would love to ditch the RO
Unfortunately for you Sutton was part of the greater metropolitan area and was only merged
as district of Birmingham in 74 , it doesn't fall within the actual Birmingham city limits supply line
from Wales which has been supplying the city of Birmingham for over a hundred years.

Anyway I don't know anyone who is in Sutton who class themselves as being from Birmingham,you lot
are as bad as the inbreds from Solihull ;D
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: tlwcs on August 09, 2015, 03:12:17 pm
I know but b75 is sutton so is part of Birmingham , there is a small pocket of the area supplied by South staffs water, God know why.
I would love to ditch the RO
Unfortunately for you Sutton was part of the greater metropolitan area and was only merged
as district of Birmingham in 74 , it doesn't fall within the actual Birmingham city limits supply line
from Wales which has been supplying the city of Birmingham for over a hundred years.

Anyway I don't know anyone who is in Sutton who class themselves as being from Birmingham,you lot
are as bad as the inbreds from Solihull ;D

Well I never.
Title: Re: Cleaned with 55 tds
Post by: gary999 on August 09, 2015, 03:13:23 pm
 ;D