Clean It Up

UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: samson on July 28, 2015, 06:51:25 am

Title: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 06:51:25 am
Found someone who is going to do some leafleting, only around 14 hours a week to start, but what are the limits on NI, and do i just need to get a receipt for the money I pay him ?        Do I need to inform HMRC ?

Thanks for any advice  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 28, 2015, 07:13:01 am
If you want to offset it against your business the answer is Yes Yes Yes if you call me I will talk you through it.  I am employing  my Grandchildren  for a few hours over the summer holidays  and I have had to inform HMRC they are 12, 14, & 15
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on July 28, 2015, 07:26:15 am
Take them on as self employed, they give you an invoice each week for the hours done/qty delivered you pay it, it's then up to them if they wish to declare the income.

If your gonna do paye then you will need to do all the relevant paperwork inc employers liability etc...

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 07:40:15 am
He told me is self employed, but claiming benefits and says he allowed to earn £70 before it effects them ! 
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on July 28, 2015, 07:48:25 am
Not your concern mate providing you get a receipt and show it in your accounts

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on July 28, 2015, 07:49:20 am
At 14 hours p/w he's going to earn over £70 anyway

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 07:51:47 am
At 14 hours p/w he's going to earn over £70 anyway

Darran
The arrangement we spoke about was for him to deliver 2000 a week, and for me to pay £35 per 1000, so hours not really an issue, I was just theorising how long it would take  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 07:53:37 am
Taking a bit of a gamble really, but told him I want to know which area he has covered, and then I would do spot checks !
If it goes ok, will look for another person on similar terms.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 07:57:03 am
Thanks for the advice by the way  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on July 28, 2015, 01:06:16 pm
Then self employed it is, if your paying per thousand.

We pay £50 per thousand delivered plus a £5 lead bonus per job we get, this seem to focus minds on delivering every last leaflet  :D

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 01:26:23 pm
To be honest I am getting a bit overwhelmed with the responses from the advert !      Must have heard about half a dozen sob stories, and I am thinking of opening up a refuge  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 28, 2015, 03:47:23 pm
It doesn't matter whether they are self employed or not you still should deduct CIS and get an authority to pay them from HMRC.  Ask them for their NI Number and call HMRC That is the law!  If you put the payments through the books any other way you may be liable for their tax.  Even Paper boys have to do this now with newsagents!
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 09:40:53 pm
Going to see the accountant tomorrow, so will see what he says  8)
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 28, 2015, 10:39:10 pm
Going to see the accountant tomorrow, so will see what he says  8)

Well hopefully they will tell you the same as my expensive accountant ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 28, 2015, 10:45:56 pm
Going to see the accountant tomorrow, so will see what he says  8)

Well hopefully they will tell you the same as my expensive accountant ;D ;D ;D
Must be nice to be able use an expensive accountant  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 29, 2015, 07:03:38 am
Why do you know any cheap ones?
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 29, 2015, 08:36:25 am
Why do you know any cheap ones?
I will answer that question later  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 29, 2015, 04:45:11 pm
Apparently if they earn under £112 a week you just need an invoice from them, any more and it gets costly !
Self employed is the way to go to start them off, and then if they are any good you can put them on the books.  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 29, 2015, 08:16:50 pm
The self employed bit is scaring everone off apart from the one lad who is starting next week  ::)roll
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on July 29, 2015, 08:22:18 pm
Good luck, let us know how it goes

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Ashley Brothwood on July 29, 2015, 08:23:49 pm
One way they might ask you is if he is delivering leaflets for you but is free to find other work such as leafleting for another company he would be self employed, Effectively running a leaflet distribution company.
If he is only wearing your uniform, only delivering your leaflets and doing the Times / days you set it would be more like he's employed.
Neither is an air tight argument but along them lines is how they look at it
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 29, 2015, 09:32:51 pm
True, the accountant said it can be a grey area, but I suppose if they are only working for you alone then they should be on the books.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on July 29, 2015, 09:51:15 pm
As posted above if your setting hours and uniform, however your not paying p/h your paying per thousand delivered, in their own time. Thats self employed regardless if they have other "clients" or not

Believe me you don't want to be paying p/h for leaflet drops most people deliver around 100 p/h so 10 hours minimum wage per 1000 + NI + employers contribution + holiday pay

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Ben Marriott on July 29, 2015, 10:06:54 pm
Sounds like a good Saturday job for a retired postman :D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Ashley Brothwood on July 29, 2015, 10:56:19 pm
Yes when I have leafleters I pay £50 per 1000 and £5 per job booked in so the faster they work the more money they earn. They do it in their own time and can do as much or as little as they want so I usually get an invoice off them for the time spent and the amount of leaflets they've pushed
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 29, 2015, 11:27:34 pm
Yes when I have leafleters I pay £50 per 1000 and £5 per job booked in so the faster they work the more money they earn. They do it in their own time and can do as much or as little as they want so I usually get an invoice off them for the time spent and the amount of leaflets they've pushed
The guy who is helping is getting £35 per 1k, and £5 for each customer, still think its too cheap but he said that's what he wanted  :-\
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 30, 2015, 09:47:15 am
Apparently if they earn under £112 a week you just need an invoice from them, any more and it gets costly !
Self employed is the way to go to start them off, and then if they are any good you can put them on the books.  ;D

I don't know where this figure of £112 a week came from Darren and our accountant can find no reference to it either!   Do you have a HMRC Reference or link you can post or send me that supports it because we can't find it anywhere?  The NI Threshold is £155 p/w.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 30, 2015, 10:55:13 am
This is a HMRC Screen print that our accountant has just sent me.  It quite clearly states that regardless of how much you pay they must be on your HMRC return.

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438250073_HMRC.jpg)
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 30, 2015, 12:28:47 pm
Just going by what he told me, that if you pay a penny over £112 you have to do a lot of paper work ( to be honest when he was telling me all this stuff my mouth was open, and I had a glazed look on my face )  !
Just to note Kev, your turnover is in the millions, but I just get a bit of extra cash money to to top up my benefits  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 30, 2015, 12:30:16 pm
Do you have an offshore bank account Kev ?
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on July 30, 2015, 04:35:17 pm
Just going by what he told me, that if you pay a penny over £112 you have to do a lot of paper work ( to be honest when he was telling me all this stuff my mouth was open, and I had a glazed look on my face )  !
Just to note Kev, your turnover is in the millions, but I just get a bit of extra cash money to to top up my benefits  ;D

Just don't want something to go wrong that's all!  Up to you at the end of the day!  My turnover is in the Millions but unfortunately in Hungarian Forints not £ Sterling ;D ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on July 30, 2015, 06:46:37 pm
Just going by what he told me, that if you pay a penny over £112 you have to do a lot of paper work ( to be honest when he was telling me all this stuff my mouth was open, and I had a glazed look on my face )  !
Just to note Kev, your turnover is in the millions, but I just get a bit of extra cash money to to top up my benefits  ;D

Just don't want something to go wrong that's all!  Up to you at the end of the day!  My turnover is in the Millions but unfortunately in Hungarian Forints not £ Sterling ;D ;D
well techically that makes you a millionaire  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: CleanClear on July 31, 2015, 10:28:14 pm
This is a HMRC Screen print that our accountant has just sent me.  It quite clearly states that regardless of how much you pay they must be on your HMRC return.

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438250073_HMRC.jpg)

Kev, what is that an actual screenshot of ? It says..year 2015 to 2016 so its not a tax return. My understanding is that you do not need to register if you employ, and you pay less than , or no more than £106 (£108?) a week for 16 hours .

I realise there's a new change where employers now have to register as regards the pension scheme. And thats no matter what they earn or no matter what hours they do. Is it that we're looking at ?
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: CleanClear on July 31, 2015, 10:40:53 pm
Found someone who is going to do some leafleting, only around 14 hours a week to start, but what are the limits on NI, and do i just need to get a receipt for the money I pay him ?        Do I need to inform HMRC ?

Thanks for any advice  ;D

I'm going to answer my own question that i asked Kev here. No, you do not need to worry about any of that. Just make a record of what you have paid and to whom. Check yourself here..................
https://www.gov.uk/register-employer

Here's the result i just got. Which i knew to be correct, but just had to recheck after looking at the advice here..............
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438378833_tax.png)
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: CleanClear on July 31, 2015, 10:42:59 pm

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

Explain the accurate bit for me Kev ???  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on August 01, 2015, 02:48:50 am

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

Explain the accurate bit for me Kev ???  ;D ;D ;D
Just got a new accountant , and this is who gave me the advice about the £112 limit, he told me as long as I get an invoice then I have covered myself.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on August 02, 2015, 11:33:13 am

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

Explain the accurate bit for me Kev ???  ;D ;D ;D


I will pass this information  back  to him but I must say in his defence that two of my grandchildren are paper boys for two different shops.  Both earn around £20-£25 a week and they had to register and both get payslips every week.  The shops wouldn't  be going through it if they didn't  need to would they?  I don't  think it's about the amount paid out anymore but we will see.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Smudger on August 02, 2015, 01:44:31 pm
I think the difference is paye where you would register and sub contract where you don't

Darran
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: CleanClear on August 04, 2015, 09:59:10 am

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

Explain the accurate bit for me Kev ???  ;D ;D ;D
Just got a new accountant , and this is who gave me the advice about the £112 limit, he told me as long as I get an invoice then I have covered myself.

Its not a case of covering yourself, and you don't get invoices from employees. You give them a wage slip. You should as a matter of course have their NI details, check their elegibility to work. Other than that the system is simplified for small business paying small earners, by negating the red tape around employer registration, real time PAYE requirements. Of course it does not negate registering for this new pension thing.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: CleanClear on August 04, 2015, 10:01:22 am

Now you know why we have an expensive but accurate accountant ;D ;D ;D

Explain the accurate bit for me Kev ???  ;D ;D ;D


I will pass this information  back  to him but I must say in his defence that two of my grandchildren are paper boys for two different shops.  Both earn around £20-£25 a week and they had to register and both get payslips every week.  The shops wouldn't  be going through it if they didn't  need to would they?  I don't  think it's about the amount paid out anymore but we will see.

That will be the difference Kev from your perspective. As i answered "no" to does the employee have another job. Yours has.
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on August 04, 2015, 10:09:17 am
They are my Grandchildren in full time education delivering papers they don't have another job
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: CleanClear on August 04, 2015, 03:05:36 pm
If you want to offset it against your business the answer is Yes Yes Yes if you call me I will talk you through it.  I am employing  my Grandchildren  for a few hours over the summer holidays  and I have had to inform HMRC they are 12, 14, & 15

This is what i was reffering to Kev. If you follow the questionaire i linked to then the answer is....yes they do have another job so you would need to register as an employer. If they did not have another job (i.e their paper round), then according to that you would not have to register. But if you do already employ at above £112 per week you will already probably be registered anyway ? 
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: Kev Martin on August 04, 2015, 04:11:22 pm
I will rephrase that correctly!  I am employing my Grandchildren primarily to give them a little extra pocket money and to keep them off the streets a bit during the summer.  They can only work for 15 hours per week or  4 hours a day by law.  I still had to register them to pay them! (Unless I pay them cash which we never get).  It only takes two minutes but I stay squeaky clean.  I would still have to register them even if they didn't have a paper round  to take money out of the business officially and claim it as deductable) and no they don't get anything like £112 per week ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on August 04, 2015, 04:15:39 pm
I will rephrase that correctly!  I am employing my Grandchildren primarily to give them a little extra pocket money and to keep them off the streets a bit during the summer.  They can only work for 15 hours per week or  4 hours a day by law.  I still had to register them to pay them! (Unless I pay them cash which we never get).  It only takes two minutes but I stay squeaky clean.  I would still have to register them even if they didn't have a paper round  to take money out of the business officially and claim it as deductable) and no they don't get anything like £112 per week ;D
Slave driver  ;D
Title: Re: Employing ?
Post by: samson on August 04, 2015, 04:18:44 pm
I agree about being squeaky clean, we try and do everything by the book so there are no come backs later on.    Only thing I would say is there isn't a lot of ( free ) help out there like they used to be.  We had  Yorkshire business malarky and you could go on all kind of free courses and stuff, but they stopped it  :'(