Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: martin hulstone on July 26, 2015, 12:21:34 pm
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I noticed a window cleaning van this week with a 1000ltr ibc tank in the back. unbelivable!. For a start the plastic is very thin and secondly it aint baffled. the ullage around bends must be quite a stress on the van as well.
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For a huge job a few years back I had one in the back of my P100 pick up. They're fine when they're full and as long as you transport them to the site and then bring them back empty all is well - but in everyday use hopeless as described. The name Intermediate Bulk Container is very true.
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I have use an ibc tank in my van for over ten years never had a problem with it
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Never had an accident then.........If you slammed on and there was say 700 litres still left in, it would literally explode. its not designed to with hold any sort of impact. the one i have in my garage to store pure water in can have a finger pressed into the plastic its that thin.
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Im not even sure an insurance company would accept a non baffled tank carrying a large amount of water on there policy?
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The thing is I don't drive round like an idiot . Had to brake sharp a few times because off the other idiot drivers never had any problems . I have mine properly fastened down with proper floor brackets not ratchet straps
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Then baffle it - very simple
I'll put it to you this way, and all my vans have IBC tanks, all bolted through the floor, they are designed for transporting liquids (unlike wyvale tanks) and fully baffled you get NO slosh NO roll from these, unlike wyvale tanks which used to rock the vans something chronic at either 3/4 and 1/4 full.
If anything, the thinner plastic is a better safety feature, as a ruptured tank will disperse the waters energy in all directions quickly and not travel like a ten tonne brick into your cab.
Hope the above helps you understand why an IBC tank is a better alternative to wyvale water butt tanks
Darran
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Been a lorry driver nearly twenty year never had a problem with transporting ibc as fear as Portugal.no baffles.no problem.have ibc in the van now with land drain as baffles .nine years no problem what so ever
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For a huge job a few years back I had one in the back of my P100 pick up. They're fine when they're full and as long as you transport them to the site and then bring them back empty all is well - but in everyday use hopeless as described.The name Intermediate Bulk Container is very true.
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Please explain ??
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Yes ibc tanks are safe to carry when full as there is no ullage, but half full and un baffled they could present a problem as the water is smashing around inside the tank every time you turn a corner.
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And as far as i am aware ibc tanks are designed for storing liquids, not carrying liquids for prolonged periods.
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That's their purpose in life to transport and store liquids ....
So you looked inside the chaps ibc to see if he had it baffled ?
Darran
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For a huge job a few years back I had one in the back of my P100 pick up. They're fine when they're full and as long as you transport them to the site and then bring them back empty all is well - but in everyday use hopeless as described.The name Intermediate Bulk Container is very true.
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Please explain ??
It's an Intermediate Bulk Container.
It's designed to be the Intermediate Container for transporting Bulk loads between their manufacture and delivery.
It doesn't need to be baffled because when in transit it's full hence no sloshing about.
When it reaches it's destination it's drained and either returned empty or recycled.
At no point in transit is it less than full or more than empty.
It isn't designed to be a mobile water tank with various quantities of liquid present.
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An intermediate bulk container (IBC) or IBC tote or pallet tank, is a reusable industrial container designed for the transport and storage of bulk liquid and granulate substances .
It's also intermediate because it's bigger than a drum but smaller than a tanker
Correct, without baffles you will get slosh, same as wyvale tanks slosh at certain levels, so once baffled as posted above with pipe you can have any level of water in it
Darran
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An intermediate bulk container (IBC) or IBC tote or pallet tank, is a reusable industrial container designed for the transport and storage of bulk liquid and granulate substances .
It's also intermediate because it's bigger than a drum but smaller than a tanker
Correct, without baffles you will get slosh, same as wyvale tanks slosh at certain levels, so once baffled as posted above with pipe you can have any level of water in it
Darran
I'm sure that Cleaning Spot used to sell a baffle kit for them.
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Baffel balls springs to mind ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmsTtxSKQA
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Im sorry Smuger but i disagree with you. The ibc tank which i saw in the back of a window cleaning van was inside a steel tank and whether they are baffled or not they should not be really be used on a continuous basis. They are one time use only tanks that are made from polythlene plastic composite hence why they are in a cage. I certainly would not want to be in a van if one exploded carrying any amount of liquid.
My opinion only though of course. :)
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Sorry, meant inside a steel frame.
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When you buy chems etc in bulk delivered in ibc's most are then picked up by the supplier to be reused now so I don't see how they are no good after one use.
They must be fit for purpose surely as they carry all sorts of chems etc inside them ???
I can't see any problem myself if using ibc’s for wfp storage tanks as long as they are baffled somehow and secured in a van properly preferably bolted through the floor rather than just ratchet strap them in.
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The thing is I don't drive round like an idiot .
Having an unbaffled IBC tank in your van defines you as an idiot even if you don't drive like one.
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O no the henchmen are out again 😆
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I noticed a window cleaning van this week with a 1000ltr ibc tank in the back. unbelivable!. For a start the plastic is very thin and secondly it aint baffled. the ullage around bends must be quite a stress on the van as well.
Just a thought for you. HGV fuel tanks, maybe 450 litres or more are unbaffled too. And only held on to the chassis by two very thin metal bands.
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I noticed a window cleaning van this week with a 1000ltr ibc tank in the back. unbelivable!. For a start the plastic is very thin and secondly it aint baffled. the ullage around bends must be quite a stress on the van as well.
Just a thought for you. HGV fuel tanks, maybe 450 litres or more are unbaffled too. And only held on to the chassis by two very thin metal bands.
Since when ?
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Exploding ibc tanks, wow I'll just check to see if it has a grenade implanted under the steel pallet..
Both Ibc tanks and wyvale tanks + other makes are all polyethylene plastic, but thanks for your input
martin
Baffle balls are ace, but not fit through the opening in an ibc.
Darran
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When you carry ibc,s they aren't baffled.and they are never full either.1000 lts tanks the mark is six inches from the top.
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When you carry ibc,s they aren't baffled.and they are never full either.1000 lts tanks the mark is six inches from the top.
Six inches from the top wouldn't be enough to cause the pendulum effect which is the danger when carrying any liquid in
a tank without baffles.
At the end of the day a baffled tank wont cost a fortune so there is no sensible reason not to use one.
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I noticed a window cleaning van this week with a 1000ltr ibc tank in the back. unbelivable!. For a start the plastic is very thin and secondly it aint baffled. the ullage around bends must be quite a stress on the van as well.
Just a thought for you. HGV fuel tanks, maybe 450 litres or more are unbaffled too. And only held on to the chassis by two very thin metal bands.
Since when ?
Here's a modern one for sale ............
http://r.ebay.com/5ryECy
"Since when?"..........is a good question. If you look at pictures of old trucks, maybe 1950's and earlier, its a design that has not changed. I'm not aware of any ripping the chassis off or bursting out their brackets. Mind you, its not a field i've researched thoroughly.
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Truck fuel tanks are baffled, usually several plates to divide the tank into sections with at least one hole or opening at the bottom so fuel can flow into each section, tankers are along the same design and have been since the 1930's when I think scammell first used this to stop surge.
The idea of any tank holding liquids to to stop any momentum being built up which will cause slosh and effect the handling of the vehicle or loss of fluid due to spillage.
This can be done by having a completely full container or baffles which break up the currents and flow of liquids.
Darran
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Jerry...Jerry...Jerry!!!
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i had 1000lt ibc tank in my pug expert about 7 years ago with no problems at all
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Truck fuel tanks are baffled, usually several plates to divide the tank into sections with at least one hole or opening at the bottom so fuel can flow into each section, tankers are along the same design and have been since the 1930's when I think scammell first used this to stop surge.
The idea of any tank holding liquids to to stop any momentum being built up which will cause slosh and effect the handling of the vehicle or loss of fluid due to spillage.
This can be done by having a completely full container or baffles which break up the currents and flow of liquids.
Darran
Yeah ok i illustrated my point badly. At a minimum there would have to be some sort of baffling in any diesel tank other wise when you went round a corner with a low tank you'd have an airlock in your fuel system. I think some only have a half baffle to prevent airlock. But whatever, the point i was making is that these heavy tanks, are secured safely and without issue with minimum baffling (yeah ok thats different to what i said), and are only secured with thin steel bands. Not only secured, but supported totally by them. That makes me wonder, whats with all the baffling everyones panicking over, and all the steel frame securing. All over the top IMO. And i can assure you that not all road tankers are baffled, i know because i drove them for a living. And their surge of liquid can not only make you feel wobbly, it can actually lift your rear tractor axle off the ground. They off course drive to the conditions of their load and take this into account.
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i be more worried about the sate of the pallet the ibc is sat on :)
if it wood then they dont last for ever and rot away.plastic pallet would be better
the whole idea of transportting ibc on lorry's are they are stacked up against a steal frame head board,and they do fall off and break up ;) trust me on that one ;D
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Truck fuel tanks are baffled, usually several plates to divide the tank into sections with at least one hole or opening at the bottom so fuel can flow into each section, tankers are along the same design and have been since the 1930's when I think scammell first used this to stop surge.
The idea of any tank holding liquids to to stop any momentum being built up which will cause slosh and effect the handling of the vehicle or loss of fluid due to spillage.
This can be done by having a completely full container or baffles which break up the currents and flow of liquids.
Darran
Yeah ok i illustrated my point badly. At a minimum there would have to be some sort of baffling in any diesel tank other wise when you went round a corner with a low tank you'd have an airlock in your fuel system. I think some only have a half baffle to prevent airlock. But whatever, the point i was making is that these heavy tanks, are secured safely and without issue with minimum baffling (yeah ok thats different to what i said), and are only secured with thin steel bands. Not only secured, but supported totally by them. That makes me wonder, whats with all the baffling everyones panicking over, and all the steel frame securing. All over the top IMO. And i can assure you that not all road tankers are baffled, i know because i drove them for a living. And their surge of liquid can not only make you feel wobbly, it can actually lift your rear tractor axle off the ground. They off course drive to the conditions of their load and take this into account.
Should the straps securing the fuel tank fail, the fuel tank isn't goin to crash through the bulkhead and crush the occupants, whereas a poorly secured water tank in the back of a van just might.
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Truck fuel tanks are baffled, usually several plates to divide the tank into sections with at least one hole or opening at the bottom so fuel can flow into each section, tankers are along the same design and have been since the 1930's when I think scammell first used this to stop surge.
The idea of any tank holding liquids to to stop any momentum being built up which will cause slosh and effect the handling of the vehicle or loss of fluid due to spillage.
This can be done by having a completely full container or baffles which break up the currents and flow of liquids.
Darran
Yeah ok i illustrated my point badly. At a minimum there would have to be some sort of baffling in any diesel tank other wise when you went round a corner with a low tank you'd have an airlock in your fuel system. I think some only have a half baffle to prevent airlock. But whatever, the point i was making is that these heavy tanks, are secured safely and without issue with minimum baffling (yeah ok thats different to what i said), and are only secured with thin steel bands. Not only secured, but supported totally by them. That makes me wonder, whats with all the baffling everyones panicking over, and all the steel frame securing. All over the top IMO. And i can assure you that not all road tankers are baffled, i know because i drove them for a living. And their surge of liquid can not only make you feel wobbly, it can actually lift your rear tractor axle off the ground. They off course drive to the conditions of their load and take this into account.
Should the straps securing the fuel tank fail, the fuel tank isn't goin to crash through the bulkhead and crush the occupants, whereas a poorly secured water tank in the back of a van just might.
100% correct. And if your non crash tested hole in the floor opens out, or your non crash tested bolt fails then your crash tested tank frame will come right through it and kill you possiby whilst retaining its integrity. How goods that ?
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CC - I'm with you, just thought I should let you know the tanks are baffled, which is both our points really, whether the tank is plastic, steel steel, gold plated or concrete it needs to be baffled.
There seems to be a few people that think wyvale tanks are baffled - in the truest form they are not, the slots are for strength and rigidity of the plastic tank.
If you want the best in baffled tanks you need a bespoke tank, failing that the "d" shaped tanks with plastic tubes inside would be a great choice.
Darran
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CC - I'm with you, just thought I should let you know the tanks are baffled, which is both our points really, whether the tank is plastic, steel steel, gold plated or concrete it needs to be baffled.
There seems to be a few people that think wyvale tanks are baffled - in the truest form they are not, the slots are for strength and rigidity of the plastic tank.
If you want the best in baffled tanks you need a bespoke tank, failing that the "d" shaped tanks with plastic tubes inside would be a great choice.
Darran
Wyvale or wydale?
I just bought a wydale baffled tank with slots in, the description says they are baffled....
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438119639_image.jpg)
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I cleaned the windows at Wydale
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CC - I'm with you, just thought I should let you know the tanks are baffled, which is both our points really, whether the tank is plastic, steel steel, gold plated or concrete it needs to be baffled.
There seems to be a few people that think wyvale tanks are baffled - in the truest form they are not, the slots are for strength and rigidity of the plastic tank.
If you want the best in baffled tanks you need a bespoke tank, failing that the "d" shaped tanks with plastic tubes inside would be a great choice.
Darran
Yeah your right, the Wyvale(wydale?) are only probabky what you could call slightly baffled. I'm a fan of them though, they are a strong tank. I'm not so sure i agree with some on the forum who seem to have an opinion of...baffle them, no wobble. Crash tested system, you can go crash and you'll be fine.... Ultimatley, driving a van with 650 KG, or 1000 KG in the back demands you drive it accordingly. Of course moving fluids demands even a bit more caution,
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Wyvale or wydale?
I just bought a wydale baffled tank with slots in, the description says they are baffled....
They're baffled to the extent that you do not have the full extent of the water moving about. I.e the baffle usually just effectivey splits the tank in two. So half the slosh ? They aint baffled to the extent there is loads of multi compartments or piping in so you hardly get a slosh.
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??? So do baffles help in a crash?
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??? So do baffles help in a crash?
As far as i'm aware no they don't. Baffles can help reduce "wobble", they can stop your water or fuel running clear of your inlet and thus avoid you getting an airlock,they can (in a road tanker) stop the weight running forward and lifting the tractor units wheels off the floor. But they cannot negate 650 litres (or whatever) coming to a dead stop.
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Sorry iPad tends to put its own words in- wyvale tanks is what I meant.
I don't know if they would or wouldn't help in an actual crash, but as cc posted they help with better control of the vehicle.
Darran
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??? So do baffles help in a crash?
Many people are baffled after a crash.
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??? So do baffles help in a crash?
Many people are baffled after a crash.
;D
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So what i am saying is effectively right, it dont matter if it is baffled, strapped down or bolted to the chassis, the thin, one time use ibc tanks which you see on ebay for 30 quid are no use in a crash as they would just split open, they would not handle the impact as they are not designed for continuous use. Im not saying all ibc tanks are one time use tanks but the see through ones that are surrounded by a steel cage are and should only be used for storing water in a stationary position ie pure water from the ro ready for transfer to van tank.
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So what i am saying is effectively right, it dont matter if it is baffled, strapped down or bolted to the chassis, the thin, one time use ibc tanks which you see on ebay for 30 quid are no use in a crash as they would just split open, they would not handle the impact as they are not designed for continuous use. Im not saying all ibc tanks are one time use tanks but the see through ones that are surrounded by a steel cage are and should only be used for storing water in a stationary position ie pure water from the ro ready for transfer to van tank.
Ibc's are designed and crash tested to withstand impacts and minimize the risk of spillages whilts in transport.
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But they are designed for one time use as there name suggests
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Personally I would rather use a purpose built baffled water tank than stick an ibc in my van.
But each to their own I suppose.
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Agreed :)
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If you have work were you are using 1000 litres daily you should be earning enuff to install a proper system.
Every one runs their business different .Window cleaning is one of the few business were over heads and running costs are fairly low compared to others ,so installing a decent safe system should not be looked upon as a luxury.
A IBC tank may be fine in crash but you'll never know till it happens and would you want to take the risk all for the sake of saving a bit of money.
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But they are designed for one time use as there name suggests
Lol !
Martin you really are a funny guy !
Darran
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Funny?
Im only going off what i have read and from my own research, the ibc tanks have very thin plastic, and why would they be called
One time use plastic ibc tank if they are for everyday use?
Only giving my opinion.
If you disagree that is fine, it is a forum after all.
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But they are designed for one time use as there name suggests
They are reused and their name doesn't suggest one time use. Two factual errors in a single sentence.
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Didn't Ionics crash test an IBC?
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Funny?
Im only going off what i have read and from my own research, the ibc tanks have very thin plastic, and why would they be called
One time use plastic ibc tank if they are for everyday use?
Only giving my opinion.
If you disagree that is fine, it is a forum after all.
Yes I disagree on the grounds your research is totally wrong and your aim was to rubbish another window cleaners setup just because it differed from your own.
Had you said you'd seen an unsecured 1000 litres ibc tank in a combo and in my opinion that looked dangerous then everyone, including me would have agreed..
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Didn't Ionics crash test an IBC?
They did. They secured it in a way which an IBC is not meant to be secured, then sat back and watched it fail.
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CC - I'm with you, just thought I should let you know the tanks are baffled, which is both our points really, whether the tank is plastic, steel steel, gold plated or concrete it needs to be baffled.
There seems to be a few people that think wyvale tanks are baffled - in the truest form they are not, the slots are for strength and rigidity of the plastic tank.
If you want the best in baffled tanks you need a bespoke tank, failing that the "d" shaped tanks with plastic tubes inside would be a great choice.
Darran
Wyvale or wydale?
I just bought a wydale baffled tank with slots in, the description says they are baffled....
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438119639_image.jpg)
Did you get the tank with "x" slots ?
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X slots? no, it's got one oblong shape in the middle, bought it with the frame to secure it to the van
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So that's the older style 6yes it's "baffled" but you will still get some slosh, I was hoping you had brought one of the new generation tanks, these are a much, much better design
And as from their website are specifically designed for vehicle use see below...
Introducing the new 'X' Baffle range
150 Litre Baffled Water Tank - Upright X-150
The 'X' Baffle gives increased stability whilst driving.
Unlike other tanks stability can be a hazard if water is left to 'slosh' around in the tank, with the new 'X' baffle this is reduced to a minimum.
This improved design over single baffled tanks and non baffled tanks will not only give an improved safer driving experience but will also help reduce wear on tyres & suspension.
The 'X' baffle is unique with its cross design tapered baffling
Designed specifically for car valeters and window cleaners but will have many other uses too]Introducing the new 'X' Baffle range
150 Litre Baffled Water Tank - Upright X-150
The 'X' Baffle gives increased stability whilst driving.
Unlike other tanks stability can be a hazard if water is left to 'slosh' around in the tank, with the new 'X' baffle this is reduced to a minimum.
This improved design over single baffled tanks and non baffled tanks will not only give an improved safer driving experience but will also help reduce wear on tyres & suspension.
The 'X' baffle is unique with its cross design tapered baffling
Designed specifically for car valeters and window cleaners but will have many other uses too
Darran
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Smudger, it seems to me that if anybody disagrees with you they are wrong. H
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Sorry , slip of the finger, i am saying what i believe in, that an ibc should not be in the back of a van, end of. Its dangerous . How many window cleaning websites sell them as static systems? I bet any of the companys that do water fed pole systems would never sell them as part of there set up
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But they are designed for one time use as there name suggests
They are reused and their name doesn't suggest one time use. Two factual errors in a single sentence.
If you read my earlier posts you would have seen that not all ibc tanks are one time use, just the see through ones in a steel cage, others are used again. Why would they be sale on ebay for 30 quid if they could be used again?
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Who cares . If company's didn't charge stupid prices for baffled tanks then maybe more guys would buy them
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Who cares . If company's didn't charge stupid prices for baffled tanks then maybe more guys would buy them
Mate your unbelievable, your prepared to pay £40 to £50 a year on a useless additive but think a couple of hundred quid
for a safer tank is a stupid price. ::)roll
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Smudger, it seems to me that if anybody disagrees with you they are wrong. H
Not anybody, but those that clearly have decided to make up their own facts amount things, when a simple search on Google shows you I can tanks can be used time and time again, they are also made of the same material as your tank, all of which you got wrong and can not acknowledge is correct.
So why are I can tanks so cheap ? Well I would say because companies that receive them have no further use for them, and the costs involved in cleaning them ( sterilising for food stuffs ) and returning them to base ( which in many circumstances is right across Europe ) is not cost effective - they also take up lots of room so again selling them off at a relatively cheap price is better than them cluttering up a yard.
I'm sorry you can't take on the information supplied, or have consideration and understanding that their are many different ways to build a system, I'm sure your bespoke system is absolutely the best in the world and been crash tested to test its optimal performance I look forward to you posting a picture so we can see how it's all done correctly
Best regards
Darran
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Seriously guys if you cant see something wrong with a 1000lt non baffled tank in the back of a van then there's something
wrong with you.
It must be rocking about like Del boy's three wheeler every time it takes a corner, I would say the wear on the van alone
will more the outweigh the saving on the tank.
Another case of spending a pound to save a penny.
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Sean, this is where the forum fall down flat on its face, I'm not, or never have promoted an unbaffled tank ibc or otherwise, a baffled ibc tank is more stable than just about any other tank out there.
I had 2 wydale 500 litre tanks in my van, the Rock and roll was shocking, the ibc filled with baffles is so stable you wouldn't know it's on board, unfortunately people think the wydale tanks were made for transport, unfortunately not, what they are is a tank that can be used in a vehicle but still suffers slosh as the design and shape ( some sizes ) is not really suitable.
They now have brought out 'x' baffled tanks - specifically designed for water transport .
Darran
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Hi Smudger,I will leave it now as i have my opinion and that is all it is, i read a lot of your posts and you are a great source of information of which i have used on numerous occasions, but i disagree with you on this. But as i said it is only my opinion. :)
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It seems the most common size ibc that was used with drainpipes fitted as baffels was 600 litre and is still being used by some to this day.
Take wagga for instance ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3IwS9oaVc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPXIUFWah4k
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Wagga is God !! ;D
Darran
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Noticed wagga says he would like to make a disclaimer about fiiting an ibc tank because of insurance implications!
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i use a 600 litre IBC on a plastic base in a cage, self baffled with 25mtrs of irrigation pipe, no problems whatsoever even when half full
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438266643_rsz_12015-06-16_095555_1.jpg)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1438266909_rsz_20141201_153353.jpg)
if i were to run a second van i would`nt hesitate in purchasing another
tony
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👍
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I had a 650 IBC in an Expert van.
Crashed at about 35-40mph.
Frame bent to about 45º but was bolted through the floor and box section underneath (what we used to call the chassis?)
Plastic liner inside-stayed intact.
Some water sloshed out as the lid flew off.
The fella i was working for at the time removed the tank and frame and left it outside the yard as a reminder for me every morning until I left him.
I never crashed his van again ;D
He did put me a new IBC back in to get out to work again.
I never had issue with it. I posted about it early on in my CIU life.
Far as I know, at the time, no-one else had crashed with an IBC in so no real evidence to go on.
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I had a 650 IBC in an Expert van.
Crashed at about 35-40mph.
Frame bent to about 45º but was bolted through the floor and box section underneath (what we used to call the chassis?)
Plastic liner inside-stayed intact.
Some water sloshed out as the lid flew off.
The fella i was working for at the time removed the tank and frame and left it outside the yard as a reminder for me every morning until I left him.
I never crashed his van again ;D
He did put me a new IBC back in to get out to work again.
I never had issue with it. I posted about it early on in my CIU life.
Far as I know, at the time, no-one else had crashed with an IBC in so no real evidence to go on.
Imformative post... Nice one ;)
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Welcome back Darren, thought you were hiding under a different name
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Mines a 600 ltr ibc not on a wooden pallet . It's metal based bolted to floor with crash tested brackets I don't have a problem with water sloshing about in it can't even tell it's in back off my long wheel base vivaro ☺
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If you have work were you are using 1000 litres daily you should be earning enuff to install a proper system.
Every one runs their business different .Window cleaning is one of the few business were over heads and running costs are fairly low compared to others ,so installing a decent safe system should not be looked upon as a luxury.
A IBC tank may be fine in crash but you'll never know till it happens and would you want to take the risk all for the sake of saving a bit of money.
so what would call asafe install ??? a crashed tested one from one from the rip off companys that will tell you all sorts of bull as they have crashed tested theres at low speeds , these are the same guys that tell you straps and no good and unsafe ?
then when you read the crash testing data from the haulage industry where they high/low speed crash test , they have found out the straps are the best because even if they snap they slow the load down much more and take more of the enegery out of the moving loads then a quick snapped bolt
so do you trust a window cleaning company that's be around five minute , or do you trust the haulage industry that ships millions of tonnes of loads around aday and have spent millions on real research ?
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If you have work were you are using 1000 litres daily you should be earning enuff to install a proper system.
Every one runs their business different .Window cleaning is one of the few business were over heads and running costs are fairly low compared to others ,so installing a decent safe system should not be looked upon as a luxury.
A IBC tank may be fine in crash but you'll never know till it happens and would you want to take the risk all for the sake of saving a bit of money.
so what would call asafe install ??? a crashed tested one from one from the rip off companys that will tell you all sorts of bull as they have crashed tested theres at low speeds , these are the same guys that tell you straps and no good and unsafe ?
then when you read the crash testing data from the haulage industry where they high/low speed crash test , they have found out the straps are the best because even if they snap they slow the load down much more and take more of the enegery out of the moving loads then a quick snapped bolt
so do you trust a window cleaning company that's be around five minute , or do you trust the haulage industry that ships millions of tonnes of loads around aday and have spent millions on real research ?
That's a very good point
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Haulage companies test in vans or on a large flatbed with a massive headboard before the second skin of the cab? I think the bigger vehicles have much chunkier tie down points too. Look at the stupidly thin tie down points in most vans - they simply aren't designed to take that kind of strain - even seats/seat belts are secured better than that with nowhere near the same impact forces.
At least the window cleaning suppliers like Grippatank, Purefreedom and Ionics have tested their systems - what more can they do?
If I remember correctly Susan you like to seriously overload your vans and 'drive like you stole it'
I know which I would be happier with.
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Haulage companies test in vans or on a large flatbed with a massive headboard before the second skin of the cab? I think the bigger vehicles have much chunkier tie down points too. Look at the stupidly thin tie down points in most vans - they simply aren't designed to take that kind of strain - even seats/seat belts are secured better than that with nowhere near the same impact forces.
At least the window cleaning suppliers like Grippatank, Purefreedom and Ionics have tested their systems - what more can they do?
If I remember correctly Susan you like to seriously overload your vans and 'drive like you stole it'
I know which I would be happier with.
so what your saying is ford sell there vans with a legal pay load then bolt in poor hocks that are untested at the weight it legal to carry , then its goes for its eurpeion testing which every van must have to be sold on the open market with these poor hocks ???? I don't think so
ford spend million of pounds designing everything to the last detail but if grippa has spend million as well on the same testing then I am wrong they must have a lot of money to spend millions on tanks and crash testing for selling anything ?
hgv hocks are not as thick as you would think , headboards are like bulkheads and made of the same stuff weather on a trailer or in a van
been driving hgvs long dav ? how long your had your glass1 ? ive had mine nearly 15 years
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Personally... and logic dictates... that the most important safety feature is a fitted steel bulkhead.
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Doesn't matter what you say susan David always know s best . I'm beginning to think he is a teenager because they always say if you want to find out about anything a teenager always knows everything 😆😆😆
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Why thank you - i'm flattered!
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Teenager ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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😆😆😆😆😆
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Welcome back Darren, thought you were hiding under a different name
Cheers Dave.
Nah, I'm here. Just less so. :)
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Welcome back Darren, thought you were hiding under a different name
Cheers Dave.
Nah, I'm here. Just less so. :)
Hi Darren, good to see you posting again i was wondering where you got to, as for carrying non baffled ibc tanks in the back of any van there is just no logic to this.
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OMG 😅
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so what your saying is ford sell there vans with a legal pay load then bolt in poor hocks that are untested at the weight it legal to carry , then its goes for its eurpeion testing which every van must have to be sold on the open market with these poor hocks ???? I don't think so
ford spend million of pounds designing everything to the last detail but if grippa has spend million as well on the same testing then I am wrong they must have a lot of money to spend millions on tanks and crash testing for selling anything ?
hgv hocks are not as thick as you would think , headboards are like bulkheads and made of the same stuff weather on a trailer or in a van
been driving hgvs long dav ? how long your had your glass1 ? ive had mine nearly 15 years
[/quote]
payload are a guide to a maxium that you should not EXCEED,they are not there to say that this strapping point is safe.
payload are more to do with the fact of stoping and the brakes suspension does work or gives out
if you think that hgv are not as strong as you think,then i suggest that you dont take that load or trailer out,as your not capable of securing a load
the fact that the hooking points are on the chassis of a trailer and welded if not bolted on there,the ones in the floor are act as a holding point,and not to secure a load.Example is you carry steel then you hook on to the chassis and not hooking points on the flat bed of the trailer.
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payload are a guide to a maxium that you should not EXCEED,they are not there to say that this strapping point is safe.
payload are more to do with the fact of stoping and the brakes suspension does work or gives out
if you think that hgv are not as strong as you think,then i suggest that you dont take that load or trailer out,as your not capable of securing a load
the fact that the hooking points are on the chassis of a trailer and welded if not bolted on there,the ones in the floor are act as a holding point,and not to secure a load.Example is you carry steel then you hook on to the chassis and not hooking points on the flat bed of the trailer.
Payload is not a guide. Payload is a sum. Tare weight subtracted from permitted maximum weight = payload.
Also payload is nothing to do with stopping distance etc... If you look on any HGV plate, not only will you see its permitted weights, you'll also see its design weights, They are capable of much more than they do.
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each to their own but id never have one of these in the back of a van.
a few months ago i was chatting to a car valeter and he showed me inside his van.he had a 1000l IBC on a wooden pallet and a few flimsy looking straps holding it in place in a very smart vw transporter.i couldnt believe how thin the plastic tank was!it didnt seem very safe to me but if he s happy then its up to him.
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I personally would be happy to use an ibc, ..... However I haven't enough room now to get it in
I do have an empty one which I can move about I just have to strap it in with back doors open slightly using bungee cords to hold the back doors closed.
I like the look off the pic posted I would like to put 3 pumps on one and keep it for big jobs were it can be dropped off on site an removed at the end if the job.
Av not read all the conversation just the last page but if an ibc is as flimsy as those say then surely the plastic would split and worst case ( as long its secured properly ) is the plastic splits and we have a spillage in the back if the van ...... An we all had one if then at some point, happened to me last week with hose in tank and pressure washing, must of been overflowing for a good half hour ......so just drove front wheels onto kerb and let it run out the back doors.
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payload are a guide to a maxium that you should not EXCEED,they are not there to say that this strapping point is safe.
payload are more to do with the fact of stoping and the brakes suspension does work or gives out
if you think that hgv are not as strong as you think,then i suggest that you dont take that load or trailer out,as your not capable of securing a load
the fact that the hooking points are on the chassis of a trailer and welded if not bolted on there,the ones in the floor are act as a holding point,and not to secure a load.Example is you carry steel then you hook on to the chassis and not hooking points on the flat bed of the trailer.
Payload is not a guide. Payload is a sum. Tare weight subtracted from permitted maximum weight = payload.
Also payload is nothing to do with stopping distance etc... If you look on any HGV plate, not only will you see its permitted weights, you'll also see its design weights, They are capable of much more than they do.
Hence the words don't EXCEED ;-)
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payload are a guide to a maxium that you should not EXCEED,they are not there to say that this strapping point is safe.
payload are more to do with the fact of stoping and the brakes suspension does work or gives out
if you think that hgv are not as strong as you think,then i suggest that you dont take that load or trailer out,as your not capable of securing a load
the fact that the hooking points are on the chassis of a trailer and welded if not bolted on there,the ones in the floor are act as a holding point,and not to secure a load.Example is you carry steel then you hook on to the chassis and not hooking points on the flat bed of the trailer.
Payload is not a guide. Payload is a sum. Tare weight subtracted from permitted maximum weight = payload.
Also payload is nothing to do with stopping distance etc... If you look on any HGV plate, not only will you see its permitted weights, you'll also see its design weights, They are capable of much more than they do.
Hence the words don't EXCEED ;-)
Payload is a sum. Gross Vehicle weight, or as its known now MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) is what you can't exceed. Lets get it right please.