Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Phil J on July 24, 2015, 10:44:54 pm
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Evening all,
I'm 95% WFP and get asked to clean trad by a few newly recommended customers. Not wanting to turn work down I have been pricing them the same way I would doing them via pole, then when they take twice as long I'm getting pretty p*****d off. Do you price higher for trad or just bite the bullet and crack on, not wanting to offend the customer.
Thanks, Phil ???
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Personally I'd ask them why they didn't want WFP?
Even show them how it works and tell them I offer 100% satisfaction guarantee policy and will return if there's anything they are unhappy with.
If there was a legitimate reason why it has to be trad ( i.e leaking windows ) then they would be looking at double the price atleast, but more likely than not I'd pass it on to another window cleaner.
I don't get up ladders unless I really have to these days.
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If they ask for trad tell them no, why do a job that takes twice as long?
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i would prices it up higher due to the extra time it takes i do injoy a bit of ladder wrk tho keeps u sharp on the ladders when i first went wfp i was like no more ladders thats it but in realty ladders will allways b needed for the odd job its wether u injoy a bit of ladders or not realy i have bin a wc for 11 years ,wfp 5 of them years maby a bit longer but still injoy a bit just not to mch lol ;D
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money is money at the end of the day. if it takes a little longer then charge accordingly and just explain that they'd need to pay a premium for trad services. especially if its a recommend customer because in my experience they will tend to recommend you themselves and you never know what will come of it!
i have a mixer of trad and wfp work and to be frank i don't care how the customer wants their windows cleaned its about the days turnover for me
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Maybe you also need to improve your traditional technique, I have a couple of mates who have been traditional window cleaners
for over 30 years and there isn't a lot of difference in their speed compared to mine.
Personally I would charge extra because of the risk factor more than to do with the time taken.
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Don't want to sound a snob, but all the trad cleaners in our area are really cheap !
They don't clean the frames, but they are seasoned cleaners coming up to retirement age, they are the " don't come on my patch generation " ;D
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Don't want to sound a snob, but all the trad cleaners in our area are really cheap !
They don't clean the frames, but they are seasoned cleaners coming up to retirement age, they are the " don't come on my patch generation " ;D
Same here, trad price = £3 for front of house :o
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nowt wrong with don't come on my patch generation I get canvassed on a regular bassis were I am it psses me off by all the summer brigade offering silly prices then desimating a round, youve built up over a log time then diapering. so feck off this is my patch. ;D
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I just flat out refuse trad jobs (domestic) there is enough work out there for everyone.
I don't care if you can earn a higher wage for a few hours a month from doing some people who are willing to pay more for "traditional cleaning" ! You won't be earning naff all if you fall off a ladder.
OP base prices on hourly rate.
If you want some advice dump all your trad work and just go WFP i dumped all my domestic trad work. Best thing i ever did IMHO
Oh and before the ladder safety brigade come on i did 10 years trad.
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I don't let potential customers dictate which methods I should use for a start as is up to me what I think the most appropriate method should be used. Some domestic prospects you will find just don't get how wfp works and/or don't like their windows left wet etc. Still it’s no excuse for me not to use wfp if I think it's the most appropriate method for the job.
I would rather not take on the extra work than be dictated to but that’s just me.
Regarding price wfp v trad that’s down to the individuals how much they want to charge.
Evening all,
I'm 95% WFP and get asked to clean trad by a few newly recommended customers. Not wanting to turn work down I have been pricing them the same way I would doing them via pole, then when they take twice as long I'm getting pretty p*****d off. Do you price higher for trad or just bite the bullet and crack on, not wanting to offend the customer.
Thanks, Phil ???
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Evening all,
I'm 95% WFP and get asked to clean trad by a few newly recommended customers. Not wanting to turn work down I have been pricing them the same way I would doing them via pole, then when they take twice as long I'm getting pretty p*****d off. Do you price higher for trad or just bite the bullet and crack on, not wanting to offend the customer.
Thanks, Phil ???
If a customer was adamant that they wanted trad I would walk away. Usually, I can persuade them otherwise and it works a treat. I have a couple I do trad (one is a bungalow, old dear in her 80s) and I didn't have the heart to try and convert her. (She has turned out to be one of my best custys! Never get a knockback, cuppa tea every time and biccies, always grateful) The other is a chalet bungalow where I do the upstairs wfp and downstairs trad. The windows are set right in the roof so there are no drips. Both of these I have probably underpriced a bit, but I enjoy doing them. At the end of the day it's your business and you run it how you want. There is no right or wrong answer. Stay safe, make as much money as you can and enjoy it as best you can.
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I'm getting pretty p*****d off.
Of course you will. You're not an employee, mate, you work how YOU decide to work.
Why spend all that money on WFP + van and then use ladders?
Flip's sake!
Why don't you try to 'sell them' WFP - explain all the good points; it's safe, it cleans the frames lovely, there's no holes left in lawns, it's safe, it does a good job, it washes pvc doors down lovely, it's safe, it reaches those impossible to reach from ladders windows, and it's safe.
Did I say it was safe?
Ask them to give it a trail run or something; sell it. If they refuse to budge, walk away.
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I know the customers of the old trad guy, and they tell me he does a terrible job, but when I ask why they don't fire him they say
" well we have had him for such a long time
we darn't ;D
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I know the customers of the old trad guy, and they tell me he does a terrible job, but when I ask why they don't fire him they say
" well we have had him for such a long time
we darn't ;D
Its one thing I still cant get my head round in this business, why people will put up with anything when its comes to window
cleaning even if the cleaner isn't cheap.
WFP is even more proof of this as the majority of users leave the windows in a far from excellent state but customers
never seem to complain.
Its a strange game this window cleaning.
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I recon im one of the cheapest windy s around MY PATCH ,im wfp I make sure I under quote my work simply because their are windys coming out the wood work around here .ive got afew new custys that ive picked up by word of mouth. wfp as never been an issue with me its quite the opposite. so if any windys can or want to under cut me they will be working for penneys.then when winter comes it usualy culls them .ive learned from having been under cut make it as hard as possible with your price structure to be beaten.ive had quite a few people say is that all.my last window cleaner charged a lot more and could not do windows over the connie or steep roofs to dorma window.etc
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You can get good & bad in whatever methods are used but in general my trad & wfp work happens to be spot on.
Let just hope is rains shortly aterwards though ;D
I know the customers of the old trad guy, and they tell me he does a terrible job, but when I ask why they don't fire him they say
" well we have had him for such a long time
we darn't ;D
Its one thing I still cant get my head round in this business, why people will put up with anything when its comes to window
cleaning even if the cleaner isn't cheap.
WFP is even more proof of this as the majority of users leave the windows in a far from excellent state but customers
never seem to complain.
Its a strange game this window cleaning.
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Evening all,
I'm 95% WFP and get asked to clean trad by a few newly recommended customers. Not wanting to turn work down I have been pricing them the same way I would doing them via pole, then when they take twice as long I'm getting pretty p*****d off. Do you price higher for trad or just bite the bullet and crack on, not wanting to offend the customer.
Thanks, Phil ???
Were the customers who recommended you done by WFP or trad? If the former, (which I assume is the case) surely their recommendation is based on you doing a good job using this method, leaving me to ask the obvious question: why do your newly recommended customers want you to do theirs trad?
John (a tradder by the way).
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That's the problem when you start offering to do both I guess as if a trad customer recommends you to one of their friends then can make it harder for yourself to convert them over to wfp.
You could soon end up in a ridiculous situation where you have say one road that you have to keep swapping over the methods you use just because the customers wants it done a certain way.
It would get even more complicated if you said you will wfp the tops & trad bottoms as you would not know if your on your arse or your elbow as some you could wfp the lot.
It's best if you don't let customers dictate to you if you want to go 100% wfp
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I'm not anti-trad by any means but if you have the equipment in place to avoid working at height, use it. If they don't like it, maybe add 25% and do ground floor only by trad. Personally, I wouldn't but we all have different views.
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FICTITIOUS STORY: I hired a carpenter ther other day. When he went outside and used his electric saw, the air was grey with sawdust. When I told him that I wanted him to use a hand saw, he very politely told me that he would charge double for the extra time - or I could go forth and multiply.
It's YOUR business andf YOU choose the work method. If the customer doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere - as can you.
Neither of you imposes your will on the other. They want a service that you don't supply. Agreement terminates.
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I had to laugh at the sawdust thing as reminds me of a contract I have. Anyway no sooner than I finish off a job the building site workers decide to kick up a dust storm. I sometimes wonder why I bother but at least I still get paid I suppose ;D
FICTITIOUS STORY: I hired a carpenter ther other day. When he went outside and used his electric saw, the air was grey with sawdust. When I told him that I wanted him to use a hand saw, he very politely told me that he would charge double for the extra time - or I could go forth and multiply.
It's YOUR business andf YOU choose the work method. If the customer doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere - as can you.
Neither of you imposes your will on the other. They want a service that you don't supply. Agreement terminates.
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Personally I'd ask them why they didn't want WFP?
Even show them how it works and tell them I offer 100% satisfaction guarantee policy and will return if there's anything they are unhappy with.
If there was a legitimate reason why it has to be trad ( i.e leaking windows ) then they would be looking at double the price atleast, but more likely than not I'd pass it on to another window cleaner.
I don't get up ladders unless I really have to these days.
+1
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I recon im one of the cheapest windy s around MY PATCH ,im wfp I make sure I under quote my work simply because their are windys coming out the wood work around here .ive got afew new custys that ive picked up by word of mouth. wfp as never been an issue with me its quite the opposite. so if any windys can or want to under cut me they will be working for penneys.then when winter comes it usualy culls them .ive learned from having been under cut make it as hard as possible with your price structure to be beaten.ive had quite a few people say is that all.my last window cleaner charged a lot more and could not do windows over the connie or steep roofs to dorma window.etc
we do the total opposite, we price high and concentrate on providing really high quality service. Don't have time for price shoppers, and turn more work away now. It takes longer to build a round this way, but it is worth it in the end ;D
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Dave F you are selling your self short pricing work just to get work it's does not help you in the long run with the kind of though process, You once put one of your cards through a house I do Quoted £7 for a 5 bed with a conservatory on the owner asked how does he make a living with that price
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Dave F you are selling your self short pricing work just to get work it's does not help you in the long run with the kind of though process, You once put one of your cards through a house I do Quoted £7 for a 5 bed with a conservatory on the owner asked how does he make a living with that price
Indeed ...Work smarter not harder springs to mind as anyone can sell on price alone.
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i pick what i wana trad i find some jobs easer trad most i wfp, but i think its nce to b able to do both , also i wipe all fraims an sills when i trad just like i do when i wfp ,i cant stand it when i c these trad coyboys doing glass only an sill,, the fraims just look manky an they stain in the end, i no lots who dont wipe them, also there r some wc's that have never used a squeege as there just wfp i dont get that at all, one guy on a nother forum changed frm trad to wfp he diched his squeeges one of his custmers said can u clean my inside windows an he wfp the blady inside custmer put towels down :o he told her i dont use old way any more!!! wtf is that about lol
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i pick what i wana trad i find some jobs easer trad most i wfp, but i think its nce to b able to do both , also i wipe all fraims an sills when i trad just like i do when i wfp ,i cant stand it when i c these trad coyboys doing glass only an sill,, the fraims just look manky an they stain in the end, i no lots who dont wipe them, also there r some wc's that have never used a squeege as there just wfp i dont get that at all, one guy on a nother forum changed frm trad to wfp he diched his squeeges one of his custmers said can u clean my inside windows an he wfp the blady inside custmer put towels down :o he told her i dont use old way any more!!! wtf is that about lol
He wfp the INSIDE???!!!! Omg wtf :o :o
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i see a lot of ops with wfp, when theres no access,getting the ladders off,dragging the hose over the roof.then dropping the ladders down again to get to clean the backs.whats that all about?spoken 2 a few.they simply cannot use a squeegee & that's the truth ???
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Why wfp guy's do those sorts of jobs beats me when there is plenty of easy work about ???
As for not being able to trad then that is up to them if they want to learn or not I suppose
i see a lot of ops with wfp, when theres no access,getting the ladders off,dragging the hose over the roof.then dropping the ladders down again to get to clean the backs.whats that all about?spoken 2 a few.they simply cannot use a squeegee & that's the truth ???
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My trad skills need to be better for the insides of homes, been practicing on my back door since 6am , think iv just about cracked it now. The unger rubber was a bit long and was causing the edges to need to much detailing, trimmed it and no more detailing! Amazing what a bit of practice does 8)
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but surely in reason its quicker to get the ladders off in some areas of the job.you just carnt turn down a job simply because you cannot climb over a roof.would this be an extra cost???
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i wont turn a job away i take one anything at the rite price its all part of the game i think ;D
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your right there king you have to charge accordingly.im going to charge extra to get my step ladders out ;D
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your right there king you have to charge accordingly.im going to charge extra to get my step ladders out ;D
;D ;D 8)
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Price up accordingly.
If a customer wants trade and is prepared to pay the extra then its fine. You have a valid reason to charge more.
As for safety then its up to you to risk manage the job.
You are a business not a charity. Start thinking that way.
All the best..
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why all this extra? get the ladders off!!!! in some cases its much quicker using ladders for certain situations. ???
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money is money at the end of the day. if it takes a little longer then charge accordingly and just explain that they'd need to pay a premium for trad services. especially if its a recommend customer because in my experience they will tend to recommend you themselves and you never know what will come of it!
i have a mixer of trad and wfp work and to be frank i don't care how the customer wants their windows cleaned its about the days turnover for me
Hey Jon,
I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet on this one ;)
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I just flat out refuse trad jobs (domestic) there is enough work out there for everyone.
I don't care if you can earn a higher wage for a few hours a month from doing some people who are willing to pay more for "traditional cleaning" ! You won't be earning naff all if you fall off a ladder.
OP base prices on hourly rate.
If you want some advice dump all your trad work and just go WFP i dumped all my domestic trad work. Best thing i ever did IMHO
Oh and before the ladder safety brigade come on i did 10 years trad.
Where's the like button. This geezer talks sense kids!
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I have just recently gone wfp after 26 years trad and love it but still trad some ground floor stuff if i fancy it
Any time i do a quote i don't mention the method as imo they are asking how much to clean their windows so that is what i do
Haven't even mentioned it to existing customers unless they come out and ask as i don't see they need to know how you do the job you are paid to do
I wouldn't say to a mechanic "use hand tools mate i don't like that pneumatic stuff"
I used to use trad pole and wagtail for a lot of maintenance cleans and never felt i needed to ask can i use my pole or do you want me to use ladders..same thing with wfp i reckon
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I have just recently gone wfp after 26 years trad and love it but still trad some ground floor stuff if i fancy it
Any time i do a quote i don't mention the method as imo they are asking how much to clean their windows so that is what i do
Haven't even mentioned it to existing customers unless they come out and ask as i don't see they need to know how you do the job you are paid to do
I wouldn't say to a mechanic "use hand tools mate i don't like that pneumatic stuff"
I used to use trad pole and wagtail for a lot of maintenance cleans and never felt i needed to ask can i use my pole or do you want me to use ladders..same thing with wfp i reckon
Well about time Dave you got into stick waggling ;D
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You said I'd get addicted smurfy
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You said I'd get addicted smurfy
Indeed and I'm betting you are thinking you should have started wfp years ago now too ;D
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Definitely i have been missing out for years
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It's defo a no brianer if you ask me as many trad cleaners have found out over the years.
Definitely i have been missing out for years
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am quite happy to charge what ever price I like . I do quite well for my self. I find that there that many window cleaners around here, I price my work accordingly so hopefully I don't get under cut .the amount of work I have picked up lately .from custys who are fed up with paying o t t . .I will be out tonight door knocking offering good quality service with out ripping somebody's arm off.
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am quite happy to charge what ever price I like . I do quite well for my self. I find that there that many window cleaners around here, I price my work accordingly so hopefully I don't get under cut .the amount of work I have picked up lately .from custys who are fed up with paying o t t . .I will be out tonight door knocking offering good quality service with out ripping somebody's arm off.
I am with you on this Dave. I reckon on doing a top job for a modest price. That way, the customer gets real value for money, new work keeps on coming in through recommendations, and there's little if any room for serious competition. I've had this ethos for the whole 18 years I have been in this game, and for me, it works.
John
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Dave F do you read you old posts before putting a new one up? The reason i ask is you moan about undercutting but admit to being too cheap to undercut.Moan about canvassers but are going out tonight to do the same. Have you thought one of the reasons why you keeping dumping work is your targeting the wrong people .Customers will pay good money for a professional service.(as Jess J says its not all about the money)
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Anyone pricing without fear of competition IMO is not charging enough,you shouldn't have to worry about losing work because of your relationship with the customer not a few quid on price. I am confident that even if I'm a lot more expensive than others I still won't lose work,it's all down to if you come across well to people who's house you will be calling round from time to time when there not around. If they don't like the look of you forget it even if your doing it for peanuts.
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theirs canvasing and then there is blatent undercutting .and of course I moan like any one else its the nature of the beast.l am happy with what I do. as I am sure you are ,
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Again do you read your posts?
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Don't want to sound a snob, but all the trad cleaners in our area are really cheap !
They don't clean the frames, but they are seasoned cleaners coming up to retirement age, they are the " don't come on my patch generation " ;D
a lot of wfd guys in my area are cheap as well.
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Don't want to sound a snob, but all the trad cleaners in our area are really cheap !
They don't clean the frames, but they are seasoned cleaners coming up to retirement age, they are the " don't come on my patch generation " ;D
a lot of wfd guys in my area are cheap as well.
I would have to agree on that one as wfp guy's are going around undercutting trad & wfp cleaners around here too.
Mostly are new startups then they realise they are not making any real money so either pack it in or start to bump their prices up.
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id love to go wfp but id have to build up a whole new buisiness, the vast majority of my rounds would be a pain wfp, alot have over garage roof rear access so id need ladderd anyway, alot are big houses spread out so id be forever reeling in and out and moving and parking, and iv got a few rounds where i do 15 fronts and go round and do 15 backs through a field and a small wooded area behind the houses with no vehicle acess and no hose long enough lmao. i do alright trad make a good living and tske my time and be safe, in my area theres me and 1 wfp guy i regularly take work off him because custies arent happy lol
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id love to go wfp but id have to build up a whole new buisiness, the vast majority of my rounds would be a pain wfp, alot have over garage roof rear access so id need ladderd anyway, alot are big houses spread out so id be forever reeling in and out and moving and parking, and iv got a few rounds where i do 15 fronts and go round and do 15 backs through a field and a small wooded area behind the houses with no vehicle acess and no hose long enough lmao. i do alright trad make a good living and tske my time and be safe, in my area theres me and 1 wfp guy i regularly take work off him because custies arent happy lol
It's funny how, after switching to WFP, that sort of work slowly becomes history - particularly going over roofs. I won't touch jobs like that. I will go up onto a roof if necessary but not down the other side; there's no way to test how slippery the surface is that you are climbing down onto. I do have a couple of jobs where IU need to daisychain two reels but they are worth doing.
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so have we agreed on how much more charge?
I'm thinking 15% more at least
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Evening all,
I'm 95% WFP and get asked to clean trad by a few newly recommended customers. Not wanting to turn work down I have been pricing them the same way I would doing them via pole, then when they take twice as long I'm getting pretty p*****d off. Do you price higher for trad or just bite the bullet and crack on, not wanting to offend the customer.
Thanks, Phil ???
ive never had a new customer tell me what method of cleaning to use!apart from the odd "your not using that pole thingy machine are you?its crap!" ;D
when a new customer says something like this i simply say "if your not happy with the results,dont pay me!"
ive never not been paid yet and all are now regular customers.
i would never use ladders just because the customer wants me to instead of the pole.your making a rod for your own back pal.
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id love to go wfp but id have to build up a whole new buisiness, the vast majority of my rounds would be a pain wfp, alot have over garage roof rear access so id need ladderd anyway, alot are big houses spread out so id be forever reeling in and out and moving and parking, and iv got a few rounds where i do 15 fronts and go round and do 15 backs through a field and a small wooded area behind the houses with no vehicle acess and no hose long enough lmao. i do alright trad make a good living and tske my time and be safe, in my area theres me and 1 wfp guy i regularly take work off him because custies arent happy lol
its an old attitude most of us had before we went wfp mate.
you d be fine if you switched.the terraced houses would be a doddle(backpack for tops only for the backs).large houses spaced out are easy with wfp.you ll be faster on these jobs when your experienced with wfp.
the "up and over" flat roof jobs ive got on estate work have turned into "front only" jobs unless their in to open the garage so i can trail my hose through.
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id love to go wfp but id have to build up a whole new buisiness, the vast majority of my rounds would be a pain wfp, alot have over garage roof rear access so id need ladderd anyway, alot are big houses spread out so id be forever reeling in and out and moving and parking, and iv got a few rounds where i do 15 fronts and go round and do 15 backs through a field and a small wooded area behind the houses with no vehicle acess and no hose long enough lmao. i do alright trad make a good living and tske my time and be safe, in my area theres me and 1 wfp guy i regularly take work off him because custies arent happy lol
Even more reason for you to go wfp. He's obviously a bad wfp operator, so if you came along and did it properly, both you and the customer would see it actually gives a superior finish to trad in most cases, and you could probably put two vans on the road with the amount of work you'd have.
It's also far quicker in most cases to grab a pole, reel out your hose and start working, than it is to take your ladders off, wet your applicator, walk to a window and climb up your ladder.
Been there, done that, never going back. :)
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id love to go wfp but id have to build up a whole new buisiness, the vast majority of my rounds would be a pain wfp, alot have over garage roof rear access so id need ladderd anyway, alot are big houses spread out so id be forever reeling in and out and moving and parking, and iv got a few rounds where i do 15 fronts and go round and do 15 backs through a field and a small wooded area behind the houses with no vehicle acess and no hose long enough lmao. i do alright trad make a good living and tske my time and be safe, in my area theres me and 1 wfp guy i regularly take work off him because custies arent happy lol
Joey take what you read about WFP on here with a pinch of salt, in my area I wouldn't advise anybody to buy into it which is
a shame because its a lot safer than working on a ladder.
I'm still a WFP'er because I spent a small fortune on the equipment and there was no way I wasn't going to get my money
back on it or make it work.
I had to dump a massive amount of good paying work just because I couldn't get them to a decent standard using WFP quick enough.
The problem with WFP is the frames and where water can gather in those frames, get enough problem ones on your round
and it will be hell from the start.
Most WFP guys don't last long in my area for that reason and most traditional guys wont touch it for the same.
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id love to go wfp but id have to build up a whole new buisiness, the vast majority of my rounds would be a pain wfp, alot have over garage roof rear access so id need ladderd anyway, alot are big houses spread out so id be forever reeling in and out and moving and parking, and iv got a few rounds where i do 15 fronts and go round and do 15 backs through a field and a small wooded area behind the houses with no vehicle acess and no hose long enough lmao. i do alright trad make a good living and tske my time and be safe, in my area theres me and 1 wfp guy i regularly take work off him because custies arent happy lol
Joey take what you read about WFP on here with a pinch of salt, in my area I wouldn't advise anybody to buy into it which is
a shame because its a lot safer than working on a ladder.
I'm still a WFP'er because I spent a small fortune on the equipment and there was no way I wasn't going to get my money
back on it or make it work.
I had to dump a massive amount of good paying work just because I couldn't get them to a decent standard using WFP quick enough.
The problem with WFP is the frames and where water can gather in those frames, get enough problem ones on your round
and it will be hell from the start.
Most WFP guys don't last long in my area for that reason and most traditional guys wont touch it for the same.
going wfp over 5 years ago has been the single best thing ive ever done in window cleaning.after a few teething troubles in the first few months its been fantastic for picking up new work,easier working day,a lot more money earnt per year and a lot safer.
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I don't doubt that for one minute Dazmond it also works for me and the same for the other successful WFP guys on here.
I can only comment on what I see around me and on what I have learned while doing this job.