Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Rich Wilts on July 21, 2015, 02:01:22 pm
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Having had an issue with a customer this morning I feel we need to adopt a disclaimer of sorts regarding walking on low-level rooves.
Does anyone have a disclaimer of this nature they can forward to me please?
info@oakleywindowcleaning.co.uk
TIA
Matt
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Go on tell us what exactly happened as I'm dying to know ;D
Having had an issue with a customer this morning I feel we need to adopt a disclaimer of sorts regarding walking on low-level rooves.
Does anyone have a disclaimer of this nature they can forward to me please?
info@oakleywindowcleaning.co.uk
TIA
Matt
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lol later i havent got time at the mo.
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I've had 'issues' with at least two customers re walking on roofs over the years. They were happy to ask me to do it until things start to go wrong. On one occasion I received an £800 bill from an insurance company as the result of a throw away comment made by a customer to the workers they hired to fix their extension roof. They tried to make out I was to blame for the leak on a customer's extension roof that was twenty years old and had never been maintained. I've often thought a disclaimer of some sort would be a good idea.
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Similiar situation here.
Okay, so we do an 8 weekly clean on a £35.00 house in a village near to me. Its quite a nice job, usually enjoy doing it. Ive only spoken to the husband, that was when I priced it up. Since then he's never been in and she has always been distant, so to speak. Indifferent. You get this feeling perhaps when she's around, if you knock to give them the ticket after the job is done and just to say the gates been closed etc. She reminds me of an ex's sister, there was always an atmosphere when she walked in the room ;D
Anyway, we turned up today and for once the old man was home. He was in the back garden playing with the sprog. We greeted each other in the usual polite way you do, small talk, weather, are you busy and the usual clap-trap. So then he asks if we go on the extension roof to clean the windows above it, to which I reply yes. He mentions that there are a couple of cracked tiles. But that's all he says. So I replied with 'Okay, well we'll get the 47' pole out and do the lot from the ground, we should still be able to do the velux windows, just it'll be a bit of a stretch as the roof angle is so shallow'.
I then ask if there is an issue with water ingress into the property considering the cracked tiles. He replies with 'Well, yes, but its not critical, I wouldnt worry'. He saunters off and Im thinking - Hmmm, odd, but he isnt too bothered, so ho hum, carry on.
20 seconds later out comes the wife. She was obviously rather more irate going by her body language. Anyway we had a repeat of the conversation I'd had with her husband to which I replied 'Ive already spoken to your husband about this and he wasnt overly concerned about it'. She replied with 'Oh, hes always like that!!' Huffing and puffing to herself about her inadequate husband no doubt.
So she wanted to show me in the kitchen where the water had leaked in. Inside, in the kitchen, there was a water line down the ceiling, running directly from the velux window. My response was that she may have cracked tiles above the velux but that line of water looks remarkably to me like its coming from a fault with the velux, the flashing around it perhaps or the unit.
Then, I was invited upstairs to look out of the bedroom window at the broken tiles. Now there were three that were broken. One had about 1/2" of the whole tile width broken off from the bottom of the tile. No disaster, no leak being caused there. Another had a smaller amount broken off, about 1/2" but just 3" wide. No disaster there either. Another had a corner of the tile broken off, possibly 2" - 3" from the corner of tile. So, possibly something going on there, but the roofs felt lining should keep any small amount of water away from leaking into the actual kitchen.
So, anyway, maybe it was us who had done it, I dont know. But why when the they first noticed any leak hadn't they contacted us then? I felt as they couldn't prove it was us that I wasn't prepared to take full responsibility for it. She tried to say it could only have been us as we were the only ones who had been up there. But thats not proof, that's just assumption. Trying to explain to her that there are other ways that a roof tile can reak fell on deaf ears, shrugging her shoulders. She tried to tell me that in the past they've had some roof tiles replaced on the roof at a cost of £150.00. To which I scoffed to be honest. I suggested though that they get a quote, on letter-headed paper that I can have access to and we'll take it from there.
Anyway, she didnt like me implying that it wasnt entirely our responsibility, so she left the room. Although I was polite I also wasn't going to be bullied into paying for something I wasn't sure was our fault. Anyway, her husband was left in the room with me, he was much more amenable. No demands, just someone who was willing to discuss the situation. So, I suggested again he get a quote and I'd be prepared to go 50-50. He was happy enough with that I figured, although the look on his face said 'She (who must be obeyed) isnt going to be though'. He asked us to finish the windows and we'd pursue things once they'd got a quote.
I went downstairs and out through the kitchen again, where she was. I started trying to explaine to her what me and her husband had agreed, but she wouldnt look at me, so i just stood there in silence waiting for her to turn around, it was really comical, she had well and truly thrown her rattle out the pram. Anyway, she absolutely refused my offer of 50-50 and told us to leave. I told her we going to finish cleaning the windows as her husband had asked us to do that at least.
When we'd finished I knocked on the door again to just re-affirm to him my offer of 50-50 should the quote be acceptable. So, halfway through talking to him she comes out the kitchen finger pointing, saying she's spoken to her father, as he's a builder, and he thinks its madness that we were walking on her roof, and that she's going to make sure we lose any goodwill we have in the village and she'll make sure everyone knows!!
She turns her back and storms off. I looked at her hubby, he grimaced with embarrassment, I think, I handed him the ticket for the days work and said 'I think its best we dont come back'. To which he nodded in agreement. Shame, he was at least a nice fella, but he sure has got fiesty one there. ;D
I think 50% is a fair offer all things considered.
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Mate 50-50 is more than enough to keep the customer happy ...... Good will gesture...... What ever ya want to call it. - and it could have been done by anything ... Falling tree branch
Now ....................
That she has behaved in this manor I would be reluctant to offer the cost of 3 tiles as my good will gesture.
She's just an old goat ......... Exact same set up my wife's parents, mother Is a dragon father is an absolute gentleman - crazy set up.
I be surprised if anyone in the village listened to her anyway mate so just make sure her neighbours get a bit of extra tlc
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i dont walk on any roof tiles anymore(since i went wfp over 5 years ago).only the odd flat roof that have windows too far back to clean from the ground.
TBH matt its your own fault.its obvious you or your helper has broke the tiles if no one else has been up there.like you say if you can reach them from the ground with your 47 then thats really how you should of cleaned them.
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You may be right that it was us Daz, but Darren swore blind it wasn't him. They also have to prove it was it. Maybe it wasn't. Why did they have a builder in a while back to repair tiles on the same roof previously?
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You may be right that it was us Daz, but Darren swore blind it wasn't him. They also have to prove it was it. Maybe it wasn't. Why did they have a builder in a while back to repair tiles on the same roof previously?
the plot thickens!ill hold my hands up and say ive broke loads of tiles over the years when 100% trad and lost customers even though ive offered to pay(or a few free cleans)for damage done.
move on mate.i think you were pretty fair with her.
i cant think of one single job where id need to stand on a tiled roof to clean a few windows now im WFP.
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I'm surprised you walk on them to be honest. I'll happily get on a flat roof, but I won't walk on tiles. Actually, I'll add a caveat. I would for a one off type job - a fascia clean or something, but not for a regular window clean.
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i dont walk on any roof tiles anymore(since i went wfp over 5 years ago).only the odd flat roof that have windows too far back to clean from the ground.
TBH matt its your own fault.its obvious you or your helper has broke the tiles if no one else has been up there.like you say if you can reach them from the ground with your 47 then thats really how you should of cleaned them.
I would have to disagree with you on this Dazmond. Matt only has the customer's word that no-one else has been on the roof, may or may not be true. If the husband is prepared to accept a 50/50 agreement, how can that be a clear indicator that he is sure that Matt damaged the tiles?
John
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Never walk around velux. Usually they are bodge jobs when these velux's are put in. If you're gonna crack a tile its around those!
As for cracked tiles, even a bird dropping a stone can do em.
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Best never accept liability or you can end up in a whole lot of grief as you have now found out.
They can't prove you have damaged any tiles or caused a water leak so you have stitched yourself up bigtime now methinks by making an offer.
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Best never accept liability or you can end up in a whole lot of grief as you have now found out.
They can't prove you have damaged any tiles or caused a water leak so you have stitched yourself up bigtime now methinks by making an offer.
I made an offer to show willing, not to accept responsibility, I didn't accept liability, and the situation was never going to be pretty. The only thing you've got correct in your statement is that they can't prove we caused any damage. To understand you would've really had to be there, her attitude was very ugly.
If she had the same attitude as her husband we'd still be their window cleaner. As it is it was me that culled the relationship. Being free from that woman's attitude is beyond me as to how you think I've stitched myself up.
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You made an offer so yes unfortunately you did make yourself liable for the damage regardless in their eyes.
Also now gives them ammunition to go down the legal route if they wanted to do so.
Best never accept liability or you can end up in a whole lot of grief as you have now found out.
They can't prove you have damaged any tiles or caused a water leak so you have stitched yourself up bigtime now methinks by making an offer.
I made an offer to show willing, not to accept responsibility, I didn't accept liability, and the situation was never going to be pretty. The only thing you've got correct in your statement is that they can't prove we caused any damage. To understand you would've really had to be there, her attitude was very ugly.
If she had the same attitude as her husband we'd still be their window cleaner. As it is it was me that culled the relationship. Being free from that woman's attitude is beyond me as to how you think I've stitched myself up.
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Making an offer does not make you liable. Haven't you heard of 'goodwill gesture'?
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Tell that to their solicitor/insurance company when they bill you for the full cost including any legal fees to make good
Making an offer does not make you liable. Haven't you heard of 'goodwill gesture'?
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They need to prove it was us before they can sue us. Us being on their roof isn't proof.
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I now see why you were dying to find out what had happened when you replied to my opening post.
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This
Tell that to their solicitor/insurance company when they bill you for the full cost including any legal fees to make good
folowed by this
They can't prove you have damaged any tiles or caused a water leak
I rest my case. You're just trying to wind up aren't you. Dipstick.
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I find the easiest way not to walk on a roof is not to have ladders.
That way I cant' access them.
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I thought this was a forum for window cleaning not solicitors.This place is awash with smart asses. I find it`s not a good idea to bring any of your daily carrying on to this forum all you will lose is your will to live. And don`t expect support. Guy if you feel the inkling to judge the small claims court are looking for you.
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Today was a good example of a customer not knowing a ground floor pitched roof was damaged until I showed him all the broken bits of tiles I had sucked out of the guttering then pointed out at least 5 broken tiles on that part of the pitched roof just to cover my own arse as you do and I also took pics too.
I blame the old trad window cleaner clambering about on the roof to get to an awkward window but obviously did not say that to him. ;D
You can can learn by your mistakes like I have over the years so was just making a point customers can soon turn nasty if they think you have damage their property. I would also never make a so say "good will gesture" even as a verbal or written "without prejudice" settlement as that can open up a whole can of worms if they feel it is not enough to rectify the damage.
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I learned many years ago to make it clear to the customer that any damage to roof tiles was entirely at their risk. The conversation usually went something like:
"OK Mrs.............. I've had a look around and everything is straightforward with the exception of the windows in the roof. The only way we can access them is by walking on the tiles, but as tiles are fragile I'm afraid we can't accept any responsibility in the event any of them get broken. If you want us to clean those windows we will, but only on the clear understanding that it is at your risk"
In almost all cases the customer accepted this, if they didn't we either omitted the windows from the job or declined the job altogether.
If you have to walk on roof tiles to access windows then a conversation similar to the above is absolutely essential before you do. By going ahead without their agreement you are leaving yourself wide open to a claim for damage.
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Very wise
I learned many years ago to make it clear to the customer that any damage to roof tiles was entirely at their risk. The conversation usually went something like:
"OK Mrs.............. I've had a look around and everything is straightforward with the exception of the windows in the roof. The only way we can access them is by walking on the tiles, but as tiles are fragile I'm afraid we can't accept any responsibility in the event any of them get broken. If you want us to clean those windows we will, but only on the clear understanding that it is at your risk"
In almost all cases the customer accepted this, if they didn't we either omitted the windows from the job or declined the job altogether.
If you have to walk on roof tiles to access windows then a conversation similar to the above is absolutely essential before you do. By going ahead without their agreement you are leaving yourself wide open to a claim for damage.
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Is there a satellite dish up there Matt?
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Ancient Chinese proverb...................he who walk on roof have slate missing.
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Is there a satellite dish up there Matt?
Cant remember one. I understand your angle, apparently they had some work done on the roof in the past, which indicates someone else has been up there and its needed repairing or its needed repairing because its up to much. I wonder why they didnt contact me as soon as the ooof started leaking, if it had been my roof I would've.
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This type of property I was on about earlier which is a trad nightmare as tile walking would be the only option to get to the small window as trad pole would be next to impossible to do too...
I noticed it had broken tiles on the ground floor pitched roof as obviously someone had been up there to clean the awkward windows as they do.