Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike_Boxall on May 02, 2006, 07:14:40 pm
-
Hi
I don’t know how many members may have spoken directly to them or met them at the recent Windex show but now having met the owners Julie and Carl Phillips a couple of times myself, I have to say that I think they are two of the most enthusiastic and professional people within the industry. The Concept 2o range they have developed is not only extremely well designed and engineered but the level of backup service they offer is second to none.
So convinced are we that Concept 2o will become ‘the’ leading brand within the industry that we have now become an official distributor for their van and trailer mounted systems to supplement the smaller Omnipole range we also stock. I would urge anyone interested in buying a premium van mounted pure water system to view the full branded business package offered by Concept 2o. As well as the initial equipment provision, they also have a number of unique marketing angles that can also help you quickly recover the cost of the investment.
We’re currently putting together some extremely attractive introductory offers and are working with Concept 2o to be able to offer demonstrations across the country. While they have their own demonstration vehicles based in South Wales, Express Cleaning Supplies will shortly have its own fully branded hot and cold demo vehicle covering the Midlands. A comprehensive range of seminars and training programs will also be launched in the near future and Concept 2o will be available to answer questions directly from Cleanitup.
The Concept 2o website http://www.clearviewplus.co.uk is indicative of the overall quality of the systems they produce but you can only really judge them by seeing them working from the vehicle. If you’re serious about buying a professional WFP package please contact us now.
Regards
Mike Boxall
Ps Here’s an idea of the branding that Concept 2o customers can benefit from. Sooner or later one of these vehicles will be working in your area. Will you be the one that owns it?
-
Called in to see Julie the other day. Very impressed with the system. Well engineered. If I was starting again I'd have one!
Rod
-
mike would they need a rep for the midlands?
gaza [well experienced]
-
So this is a franchise, then?
-
So this is a franchise, then?
No it isn't a franchise but you still get all the benefits of being a franchise without having all the ongoing charges. There is a business startup package with everything you need (including cheap insurance, I believe) but I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later a franchise model is introduced - it makes sense. Being a succesful franchisor depends on how good your support is and Concept 2o certainly knocks spots off it's competitors (sorry no pun intended)
Gaza, sorry we don't need any more reps but you would make more money buying one and using it than you would selling them. If I was going to start any kind of cleaning business at the moment it would be a Concept 2o window cleaning business!
Regards
Mike Boxall
-
sO WHAT MAKES IT SO MUCH BETTER THAN THEE WFP EQUIPMENT IVE GOT NOW?
4 POLES ,THREE DIFFERENT WATER PURIFYING SYSTEMS
GAZA
-
sO WHAT MAKES IT SO MUCH BETTER THAN THEE WFP EQUIPMENT IVE GOT NOW?
4 POLES ,THREE DIFFERENT WATER PURIFYING SYSTEMS
GAZA
Their equipment all works ;D ;D ;D ;D
Gaza, show them a picture of the state of the back of your van :o
nice looking van concept 2o
Brett
-
I have to speak as I find and on the several ocassions I have spoken to Julie, she has been more than helpful with an obvious first hand experience of w/c.
Will be taking the short trip to Caerphilly in the next few weeks to pick up a 21ft pole and at the same time I will look at their system. (Not that we are in the market but just being a typically nosey woman !!!)
Sarah
-
SO WHAT MAKES IT SO MUCH BETTER THAN THEE WFP EQUIPMENT IVE GOT NOW?
4 POLES ,THREE DIFFERENT WATER PURIFYING SYSTEMS
GAZA
Gaza
It may be that your system is ideally suited to the work you do and I accept all systems have their advantages and disadvantages. The Concept 2o systems aren't cheap to buy but then this industry is no differrent to any other - you get what you pay for.
Wait until we've installed a few for CIU members and then you can ask the users themselves if they think they're worth the money.
Regards
Mike
-
I spent £4000 on my system and some on here would say that was a waste ofmoney. I was worried about that kind of investment before I changed from the Trad method.
Now though over a year on it is the best £4000 I've ever spent when I've increased my earnings by about £20,000 a year.
From time to time I have thought about what I would do if I was changing from Trad to WFP again. Would I go for one of these DIY systems you see on this forum that you could probably knock up together for about a grand and would probably do the job adequately?
No. Definately not in my situation where I already had a window cleaning round. Although if I was starting from scratch I think the DIY\cheap method would be good for starters.
If I was buying a system now knowing how good they are I would go for one of these Concept2o machines. They just look so professional, from the system itself to the graphics on the van. Everything about it is quality. Yes they are probably making good profit out of it but so what when its going to make you lots of money.
I met Carl and Julie at the Windex show and was chatting with them for over 30 minutes and I was impressed. I was even trying to persuade one of their customers who by the sound of it had a great round already but didn't want to 'waste' his money on WFP. He was so narrow-minded.
Basically my advice to those who have a half decent round already is dont girl thingyfoot around, go out and buy a really decent professional looking system and you wont regret it. You WILL make the money back without a doubt.
Archie
-
Now though over a year on it is the best £4000 I've ever spent when I've increased my earnings by about £20,000 a year.
Surely to increase your earnings by 20K, it would take more than a top-of-the-range WFP system?
How did you market yourself to increase your turn-over so much?
...who have a half decent round already is dont girl thingyfoot around...
I try not to 'girl thingy' around where-ever possible.
-
Yes Tosh I would also like Archie to explain himself
Jinky
-
Quite simply, I brought 2 rounds. One was worth about £1000 a month of commercial work. The other was worth about £450. Also I canvassed abit. In all it was worth about 20,000 extra a year. The commercial work was all pole work already, the other round wasn't.
To be honest I get my work done in 4 days a week. I could take on more but I dont need the money. The is purely down too WFP - %100.
-
Quite simply, I brought 2 rounds. One was worth about £1000 a month of commercial work. The other was worth about £450. Also I canvassed abit. In all it was worth about 20,000 extra a year. The commercial work was all pole work already, the other round wasn't.
To be honest I get my work done in 4 days a week. I could take on more but I dont need the money. The is purely down too WFP - %100.
So are you saying that "any" wfp system would have made the above possible or only a "professional system"? Just wondering as I've seen some pics on this forum of what some have done building their own wfp system and many look very professional.
Tim
-
I cant speak for backpacks and trolleys only van mounted. Remember my system is not a concept2o system, and I see lots of excellent systems on this forum. I'm just saying I love look of the concept2o machine and expecially the graphics, if I was choosing again now thats what I'd go for, definately. The money wouldn't me off as I know the potential.
-
Quite simply, I brought 2 rounds. One was worth about £1000 a month of commercial work. The other was worth about £450. Also I canvassed abit. In all it was worth about 20,000 extra a year. The commercial work was all pole work already, the other round wasn't.
To be honest I get my work done in 4 days a week. I could take on more but I dont need the money. The is purely down too WFP - %100.
So are you saying that "any" wfp system would have made the above possible or only a "professional system"? Just wondering as I've seen some pics on this forum of what some have done building their own wfp system and many look very professional.
Tim
it sounds like WFP has increased profits, yes its a van mount, but ANY WFP VAN mount would have done the same
wouldnt it have ?? ?? ??
-
Of course. Something real ropey looking would do the trick as long the PPM was O. But I personally think the more professional you look though the more work you pick up. And I thought Concept2o looked the best at Windex.
-
Archie when the system is in the back of a van it looks the same as everone elses, it is the vehicle wrap that brings in the work
vehicle wrap £1500
diy system £600
extra advertising the extra -- £1900
this is why guys go down the diy route, a system will not bring in extra work, it is the extra marketing and the skills of the operator to run a successful business.
I am not trying to kick the concept system I have looked at their website
and the system is very impressive but hay lets put it into perspective
it is simply a tool like any other tool supplied by ionic omnipole freedom
or any company, just the wrapping of the product looks better-
I hope you do not think I am getting at you as I am not, and thank you for sharing your views of the concept system.but it was when you said the system made you an extra £20000, that the can of worms was opened
jinky
-
Hi Archie have read over the post again and realise where you are coming from
if newbees where starting out they should go for the full package of concept 2o and hope the system is nation wide - like chemdry is in carpet cleaning,but is that not asking someone to part with the following
new vehicle £15000
vehicle wrap £ 1500
system £ 4000
advertising £ 2000 as a basic startup package
and probably another £5000 running advertising costs
quite a bit for a newbee to invest compared to starting up a trad window cleaning business. Maybe it would suit existing wcs who want to bring there image to an new level.
views on above would be appreciated
remember guys not kicking it but to every positive there is a negative
jinky
-
Jinky
In reply to your last 2 post
1)I dont have concept2o machine.
I'm just saying thats what would get if I was changing from trad now.
2) I said earlier if I had been a complete newbie without a trad round at all I probably would have gone the DIY\cheap route.
But If you already have a reasonable established round I would go for it and get something like the Concept2o. You will make your money back.
For example I have a mate who is a trad window cleaner who has just passed me job as it was taking him nearly 3 hours(small block of flats) for £31.50 as he cleans all the frames and it easn't worth it. It has 2 big bay windows. I can do it in about 35 mins.
Archie
-
Topics like this always get a reaction because of the diverse range of window cleaners dealing with such a diverse range of customers.
There are always exceptions but generally those people that question how much money can be made from WFP are usually those that advocate building cheap homemade systems.
Have a look at the guys that are making serious money from WFP and they'll be using premium equipment doing work for premium customers charging premium rates. Backpacks and trolleys are fine to get you started but to make serious money from WFP you really need serious equipment! As I've said before, window cleaning equipment is no different to anything else and if you want satisfy your own curiosity make the effort to see the system in use.
There is a market for all types of equipment as there is a market for all types of customers. It's entirely your choice!
Regards
Mike
-
When do you get your demo model Mike?
-
Hi Jon
We're due to have the unit fitted on 31st of this month.
We're obviously keen to get some of these units on the road locally as soon as possible so we'll be offering some introductory offers during June to start getting them out there. We have several forum members already waiting for us to get the demo vehicle in before they commit to new systems from other suppliers. Three of these are already using van mounted units so they'll be able to give an honest and unbiased opinion once they've seen and used the Concept 2o system.
We've made our minds up that they're the best system out there and we welcome any trial from anyone who remains unconvinced.
Please drop me an email if you'd like us to contact you nearer the time.
Regards
Mike
-
We've made our minds up that they're the best system out there and we welcome any trial from anyone who remains unconvinced.
Mike, thats a pretty good impression,
looks like some1 has beaten Onmi for the benchmark systems ;)
-
Matt
We're still as enthusiastic about the Omnipole systems as we ever have been and we'll continue to promote them. They both compliment each other: Omnipole for the smaller range of trolleys and trailers and Concept 2o for the larger equipment.
You know that I'm going park this van outside your house until you realise what you're missing out on don't you ;) ;)
Regards
Mike
-
Matt
We're still as enthusiastic about the Omnipole systems as we ever have been and we'll continue to promote them. They both compliment each other: Omnipole for the smaller range of trolleys and trailers and Concept 2o for the larger equipment.
You know that I'm going park this van outside your house until you realise what you're missing out on don't you ;) ;)
Regards
Mike
good answer mike, it was just me having a bit of fun ;)
i am up in malvern in september for the weekend, a load of hippie type invade the showground once a year, this year i will be one of them ;)
-
I think it's time for a bit of a reality check regarding wfp systems.
Reading certain posts it would appear that if you buy our premium system you somehow attract premium customers and somehow charge premium rates. we've been in business 40 + years and I would say that price determines wether you get the job in the majority of cases.I have yet to have a customer ask to inspect our equipment, so what does it matter whats in the van? home made or factory fitted.
For the record we use factory fitted gear in new vans, so i'm not a diy nut.
I think these post are very misleading to any new window cleaners entering the business thinking if they buy a certain product , by some miracle all this high priced work will come their way.
As for"serious equipment" what does that mean? a bigger tank? two hose reels?
More and more window cleaners are using wfp systems, so much so that it has become a standard method of cleaning.
10 years ago no one would say " to get premium customers and charge premium rates you need serious ladders" ???
So it would appear that to be a serious window cleaner you have to have product x.
In the same vein, in Professional window cleaner magazine they have, with one sweeping generalization declared that any window cleaner who has not been on a training course is to be labled a" cowboy" (page 12 issue 7) funnily enough its in the article about the BWCA Card Scheme.
To be a serious window cleaner you need training course x.
It reminds me of a book i read about the Alaskan gold rush, the people that made the serious money were the store owners who sold the shovels and picks.
cheers
-
Graham
My waterfed pole system i built myself has now been copied by a manufacturer, even down to the size of the tank, pump etc, I kid you not every single part.
I know this could be a coincidence because these parts are freely available, and i researched the best parts i could, so they must have done the same and drawn the same conclusions.
I thnk that concept20 is trying to portray is an image more than anything, I am not saying it is not a quality system.
As for cowboys, i think some people are trying to put that label on any window cleaner who has not got a brand new van and a £5000+ system and never been on a course.
Well apart from the course which i attended last year i am a full fledged cowboy and not doing too bad thanks ,having recently purchased my second van and system.
I would challenge any one to try and poach my customers, just because they have been on a course and got a finance package off a wfp mfr does not make them any better than me.
Saying all that i know Carl and Julie have got a concept they believe in and i would rather have them reccommended on this site for the higher quality end of the market than some some.
Remember some people want a ready to drive and work package, so i reckon that system may suit them, and you have to admit it looks a very professional package.
Dave
-
Graham, you’re quite right. Just by buying the best equipment doesn’t mean you’ll have a successful business. But, without wanting to sound repetitive, generally, those that use the best equipment are those that are most successful. Why do you think that is? Having been in business 40 years I’m sure you’ll appreciate that, again generally, you get what you pay for. But let’s be clear here because I think you’ve missed the point a little bit, it’s not about ‘attracting premium customers at premium rates’ because you have something that looks good, it’s about doing more work in less time with less effort. That’s the way to remain competitive and that’s the main difference between one system and another (although the Concept 2o branding does allow you to attract more business) But, whatever the difference and / or benefits, yes you pay for them!
I’ve done the argument about the Mercedes and the push bike getting you from A to B so many times that, frankly, I don’t bother with it any more. Normally, I just ignore comments like yours as it usually turns into a ‘my system’s better than yours topic’ or worse still ‘why should I pay several thousand pounds when I can make my own for a couple of hundred quid’. You’ve made a valid point and I can understand how you feel you’re making a valuable contribution. However, if you’re not convinced, and if you really want to know why we think it’s so much different to others then call me and arrange to have a look at it. It doesn’t just look good, it’s better built and easier to use. That’s what I meant when I described it as serious.
Just one final comment about training and, again, I hope you don’t take this personally. I agree, as indeed I’m sure anyone else would, that just because you haven’t done a training course it doesn’t mean you’re a cowboy. However, I can’t believe that there are still people out there that don’t accept that people that have done formal training courses don’t, generally, do a better job than those that haven’t done them! Sure there are exceptions (maybe you’re one of them) but I think anyone with any common sense agrees that training is a good thing. Let’s not knock it!
Regards
Mike
-
I've just bought a 9 year old 5 series. Cost me 3 1/2 grand. Would you pay that for a modeo the same age? Of course not. It s about quality, It drives and feels better than most new cars.
Like I said before If I was buying a new system now I would get the best quality system out there(And before you acuse me of leading newbies astray this only if I had an established round)
-
mike
I dont think I missed the point at all.
you said "guys using premium equipment attract premium customers charging premium rates" which now you say means "working easier and quicker" quite a different statement altogether.
I have many customers who have never seen a van or a window cleaner at their premises. ( early morning cleans) . the majority dont care what you are using as long as you clean the windows at a price they agree with.
as for the home built versus factory argument been such an old tale, I agree but I see you have no problem stating that your gear is better built than anyone elses. same tale really isn't it.
As for training, yes it' a positive thing, but just because I have'nt been to a certain company and done a certain course I should not be labled "cowboy"
As for people producing higher quality work because they have been on a certain training course, well come on its only window cleaning , hardly rocket science is it ? And anyone who "prduces quality work without going on a course is an exception!!!" what?
There are probably hundreds of window cleaners on this site that produce quality work every day and have done for years without any acadamy training.
regards
sorry archie136 i dont know what a modeo is. ;)
-
I have read everyones comments and understand where all of you are coming from.
I think the key factor in this discussion is that whatever equipment you use it is relevant to what stage your business is at.
When i first started out I brought a cheap domestic use ladder and equipment. 6 Months later a professional trade ladder as it was more stable etc...
Went from a cheap run around car to a cheap van to a newer van and now to a brand new van.
As with WFP, I brought a DIY set up, worked great but only a 95ltr tank working of DI. Then a 650ltr tank working of RO in a van.
Now I am at a stage when I need a 3rd vehicle for my guys and am going to purchase a new Van with a new system built by a market leader.
I always set out with the intention of developing my business to a large scale operation. Over 15 years I have continued in this manner and as I have developed so has my image.
I don't think if anyone on here had an endless pot of money they would opt for DIY, We all want to look as professional as we can and I am a believer that a well put together system along with a nice new van will do just that. Granted, it does not mean your work will be better that anyone else but I believe your image will be raised.
Regards and best wishes,
Trev
-
Hi Guys
I have to agree with Mike Boxall on this subject, if you want to work for
blue chip customers and charge premium prices you have to look the
part.
This means having professional looking equipment. If however you are
happy to work for shirt buttons then you can turn up with crap gear.
As someone said before all the guys earning big money out of their
window cleaning business are using professional equipment from
the big manufactures.
-
Can't agree here at all lads - the systems we build are every bit as good as any concept or ionics machine, our customers can all work at a minimum of £25/hour with many making a lot more than that, our systems cost a fraction of ionics etc so its not down to the cost of the equipment at all - what I have found is that the guys who are prepared to spend big money are the guys who are prepared to put in the work to pay for it all and go out and get new work. Ok so a new van with graphics etc is going to help attract contract work but I have one customer who spent £1700.00 on a brand new 400ltr system who is turning over nearly £300 a day 4 days a week - his van? A £125 Astravan with a blue door on the passenger side, faded orange the rest of the way round and a bin liner for a passenger side window. His work is completely commercial.
-
If he turned up with that van on some of the buildings we clean the security would not let him in.
-
Guy's, lets not question what is obvious.
000 TDS water is the same as 000TDS water no matter how it is created, be it in a brand new Merc Van carrying Tucker Pole Systems or in a DIY unit in your back garden.
The point is this.
If you turn up to a major national or blue chip client they will not expect to see a van with a bin liner as a window. Yes, granted the equipment inside will do the job just as efficiently but from the outside looking in the van does everything but look professional.
I agree that most contracts are awarded on cost basis and not image, however, if you turn up to do the work in an old heap thats falling apart you may well lose work.
I clean several stately homes and in my early days struggled to get through the front door in my old car as they never trust you, despite what you can show them, insurance, references etc....
Now, I get referal after referal and have no problem turning up in our professional sign wirtten vans, and guess what, the systems inside are DIY kit!
Like I said, image will win you more than you lose
regards,
Trev
-
Ok so a new van with graphics etc is going to help attract contract work but I have one customer who spent £1700.00 on a brand new 400ltr system who is turning over nearly £300 a day 4 days a week - his van? A £125 Astravan with a blue door on the passenger side, faded orange the rest of the way round and a bin liner for a passenger side window. His work is completely commercial.
I always say I'm not going to get drawn into these arguments but sometimes I just can't let it go.....
JM - Being blunt about it, I think your customer would have struggled getting a 'premium' system fitted to a van like that. I certainly wouldn't have fitted a Concept 2o system in it!
Graham - You say it's not 'rocket science' but WFP is, actually, science. Many window cleaners have windows that spot and have no idea why, they assume it's just 'one of those things' and hope it gets better next time. It's not magic, there's a reason why some some windows spot and others don't. Whether it's hydrophilic glass or hydrophobic glass, local conditions, tds levels, rinsing techniques or whatever, many window cleaners work it out through trial and error but many others just accept it. If they did a course they'd have a better understanding of how these things can affect their work and, ultimately, how to solve the problems everyone gets occassionally.
But listen, I've really had enough of this argument now and I'm not going to get drawn into it anymore. In fact, I'm going to agree with the following points and then delete any further arguments that cover the same issues. People get tired of reading the same stuff time and again (and I get tired of writing it). I really hope you don't take it personally, I'm sure you've got better things to do as well.
So, to sum these arguments up:
You don't HAVE to do a training course to clean windows! But I believe it helps.
You CAN buy cheaper systems that purify water and pump it up a pole! But I think there's more to it than that.
You don't HAVE to buy a smart new van! But I think it's money well spent.
You don't HAVE to buy the best equipment! I just think it's better value and it's what I would do if I was buying a system.
You don't HAVE to take my advice! Take the time to look around and make your own decision.
Happy Window Cleaning!
Mike
-
Can i butt in here ?
I have a 2001 VW and a £1200 diy system , i have only ever had spots on 1 house , i have not had a training course , self taught , i have had wfp for about 18 months , i will spend what i need to to get the job done , and thats all , i would love a brand new van and a top of the line system , but why would i waste the money when i get the results that i get with what i can afford to spend ?
Im as happy as Larry !
Rich P @ F
-
Its a case of what came first the chicken or the egg.
In a year or so i may invest in a brand new van and image and i think concept20 is not a bad way to go.
I am only thinking this way now because my business is getting to the stage where a monthly payment will not feel too bad against my turnover and besides that the payments can be offset against tax.
If i was still pottering along on a £20,000 turnover there is no way i would now be considering this, as you get more turnover you would be foolish not to consider the alternatives to self builds and older vans.
I suspect most of the guys with huge turnovers did not start out down the complete package route , i suspect they started out the same way as most of us and as there businesses developed and funds became available £18,000- £25,000 did not seem such a huge investment and in turn by spending that money and upping there image they became more successful. I dont think they went out and thought ok lets go and buy a package and earn lots of money right from the start.
A question for David Woods what vehicle was you driving when you first got your first break with that departement store, i am just guessing you were like most, older vehicle etc, please dont take offence.
I can understand all the points of view here.
I believe p&f what he says no you can get by with home build etc no problems.
Also i am listening to Mike Boxhall and more importantly David Woods as he could teach us all a thing or 2 , just check out his website and his story.
The more successful he got the more he invested in the right package and the more he invested the more successful he became.
Remember its horses for courses, if you are happy with your average semi, well thats fine ,no problems at all.
If you want people to sit up and take notice then concept 20 is the man.
Remember chicken and egg
Dave
-
OK guys (and girls!), here it is.
There has been a delay getting the unit fitted because of the vehicle delivery times, and the recent demand for the systems, but today we collected the new demo vehicle. I'm waiting to upload some of the better photo's we've taken but here are a couple I took earlier. They don't really do it justice. It looks good from the outside but you can't see the attention to detail internally that sets it apart from the rest. The whole fit really is superb but don't take my word for it, come and see for yourself!
I'm pleased to say we already have Cleanitup members ordering the systems (and who have already had them delivered!) and today I've seen an unsolicited testimonial from one of them who has already picked up work from the branding within a week of having it!
We'll also soon have loads more technical information available on the systems together with some real case studies of how much users are earning from them. If you have any questions please ask.
We've obviously had a lot of emails about the system since the topic was started and we intend to contact everyone in the next couple of days. However, in the unlikely event that you're not contacted by the end of the week please give us a call. You can speak to myself or Dean Gibbard on 01684 565552 extension 127 to arrange a demo. We're based in Malvern, Worcestershire and will be covering the entire Midlands but we'll also try and accomodate anyone outside the area.
Regards
Mike Boxall
-
impressive, but outside my remit regretably :)
JohnL
-
I picked up my trailer mounted 900ltr system last week and am over the moon with it, money well spent. I'll post some pics of it soon.
-
(http://)
-
mike
I dont think I missed the point at all.
you said "guys using premium equipment attract premium customers charging premium rates" which now you say means "working easier and quicker" quite a different statement altogether.
I have many customers who have never seen a van or a window cleaner at their premises. ( early morning cleans) . the majority dont care what you are using as long as you clean the windows at a price they agree with.
as for the home built versus factory argument been such an old tale, I agree but I see you have no problem stating that your gear is better built than anyone elses. same tale really isn't it.
As for training, yes it' a positive thing, but just because I have'nt been to a certain company and done a certain course I should not be labled "cowboy"
As for people producing higher quality work because they have been on a certain training course, well come on its only window cleaning , hardly rocket science is it ? And anyone who "prduces quality work without going on a course is an exception!!!" what?
There are probably hundreds of window cleaners on this site that produce quality work every day and have done for years without any acadamy training.
regards
sorry archie136 i dont know what a modeo is. ;)
I did go on the BWCA course myself for WFP. I did find it helpful though I felt there could have been more on the practical side. If I didn't use the internet, I would have been a bit lost without the course. Because I use the internet, I could have learned everything I learned on the course from the net. However, the course helped to put the info under one roof so to speak which made it easier to digest.
I think a modeo must be a Ford car that jerks around a lot and you have to hang on to the wipers hoping you don't fall off it :-)
-
Now... they are SERIOUSLY IMPRESSIVE looking systems.
I saw the concept system at Windex and was impresssed by the look of it then.
Everyone has their own aspirations and viewpoints.
My opinion... if anyone in an area that doesnt already have one of these systems wants to make a serious assualt on the top end commercial work and is willing and able to invest in the future.. Get one. Along with the branding. Its excellent.
Some very serious money and thought has gone into the whole "concept" here (Sorry about the pun) Dont expect to just rake work in because you have the system.. but.. what a tool to use to back-up a well planned and executed business plan.
Cheers
Andrew
-
Hi All
i agree this looks a good system brand new, but once that van is out working with employees on the inside is not going to look tidy i.e. 3 blokes & allthere kit & clothing.
But, most of all i feel that the poles are one of the most important parts of a system, i personally use Tucker, but we have a selection of other poles. Ionics etc, but, Tucker is still the brush & having emploees use them the best. But still have breaks at the weakest point but hopefully this will change with the new locking system.
I personally would not be happy or impressed at spending upto 20000 as stated then getting orange poles with vikan brush,s.
I have a lot of high profile contracts but feel we charge them a realistic price not an inflated one, but what we have to charge if the system was double or treble?
Gary
-
Gary,
You can choose your brush head or pole yourself. If your'e serious get the unger pole, if your'e not then keep buying cheaper models.
-
Probably been answered before but have just been reading about Mikes new product.
What I have been wondering is would you use equipment such as the Concept for cleaning houses.
Or would the trolley system work better?
-
Absolutely, you would Ian, Yes.
We've just added a selection guide to our website which covers what equipment is best for what type of round.
You can download a copy by clicking here http://www.sign-up.to/signup.php?fid=1083&pid=1627
Next week we're doing demos in Harpindon (Hertfordshire) on Tuesday 1st August and Nottingham on Wednedsay 2nd. If there's anyone in those areas that would like to see the system please feel free to give us a call on 0800 9154154 and speak to Dean Gibbard or Chris Ralph in our sales department.
Remember, you're welcome to call in to see the van in Malvern at any time but please call first so we can confirm it's there on the day you want to come.
Regards
Mike Boxall
-
Hi all,
Went to meet Concept 2o crew on Monday 11th, very impressed with they're professional approach, furthermore after 2 hours of discussions about getting additional customers for their clients, we were shown a crew at work in Caerphilly, we timed them and they had gotten through 10 houses in half an hour! so potentially could do 20 every hour!!
At £7 average for each 3 bed semi, this works out at £140 per hour, or £1,120 per 8 hour day.
Admittedley the round was very closed up, but the demo was in no way set up, as we asked to see the system in use at the end of the meeting without their prior knowledge.
If this system with the same conditions, was employed around my area of Cambridge the earnings would be closer to £200 per hour!!
So well done to everyone at Concept 20, for developing a product that, ok it costs more than most systems, but i would argue that most systems would find it hard to go at such a pace.
Also it is a system that can generate, £200,000 to £400,000 per year in income, when the crew learns how to operate it at the same speed levels witnessed.
So if you are serious about window cleaning as i know most on this forum are, it is defineteley worth giving Carl and Julie a call if you still have'nt witnessed its potential.
Paul :)
'Doorknockers'
-
Hi Paul,
Can you be a little more specific with your term "crew"
20 3bed semis an hour is rather exssecive. a crew of how many men, from how many vans?
Not that I doubt you Paul, but them figures are just a bit high, it works out at like 3mins per house and an 8 hour day would be :o 160 houses :o. How would "a crew" be able to carry enough water to clean 160 houses, Its not possible for "a crew".
I presume there only one up one downs, and to keep at that sort of pace consistantly all day is not likley.
ProPole
-
Stick to what you know Paul "CANVASSING"!
How can you possibly comment about other systems "not being able to cope" when you have NO knowledge of them??
Trevor
-
A bit harsh Trevor, on the comment front!
I was merely observing what i witnessed!
I hope you are not about to tell me i am making things up!!
The 'crew' was a 2 man operation, operating from one van, and the round has been wfp,d for 5 years, i admit that i have never had personal experience of wfp, but i was a traditional window cleaner for one year and have set up 30 wfp rounds so i do know a little bit about it!
Also in my experience of being a trad window cleaner, it was only possible to get through 4 houses per hour, 20 houses is obviously a much quicker and profitable rate, which is all i was trying to explain.Stick to what you know Paul "CANVASSING"!
How can you possibly comment about other systems "not being able to cope" when you have NO knowledge of them??
Trevor
I do not mention anything about any system not being able to cope, so i really do not know where that has come from??
Hiya propole, there is no way that you could stick to that rate all day, breaks would need to be taken e.t.c.
But the rate we witnessed WAS achieved in the time described, all i'm saying is, it is worth having a look at the system,if you have'nt already, as we have worked with no other wfp operation that has beaten this performance.
Perhaps there should be some competition set up on the lines of the trad window cleaning comps.
Paul
-
I have seen the concept2o and it is like many others it delivers pure water through an hose then through a brush head.
If they are making that much money window cleaning why are they wasting there time selling systems.
I have got a cul de sac of semis we just do the fronts for £3.50 a time they realy set up like dominoes , 2 of us do 13 of these fronts in just less than an hour but if you include the setting up time and travelling it is just over an hour .
This is about £45.00 in total , to get as fast as concept i would have to do one of 2 things
1 at least treble the prices on these jobs
or
2 do them in less than a third of the time.
I already work at a good pace and my prices seem to be near max for the area.
the jobs mentioned are open plan front gardens so i can just move from house to house just cutting across there lawns, so it is very hard to see where i could gain speed.
It sounds like you are saying if i bought a concept 2o system somehow things would change.
It seems funny all the manufacturers are saying how much we can earn and how fast we can do it. but you dont hear of any window cleaners stating any where near these figures.
I know one of the most respected window cleaners in London who charges top dollar who doesnt charge any where as much per hour for a team of 2 in fact £55.00 an hour less and he only charges so much becauses of congestion charges, parking etc.
I wonder what other manufacturers are going to tell us next ?
It would be interesting to see what Omnipole , Ionics , Tucker and the other manufacturers make of these claims.
Dave
-
Hiya David,
I was just very impressed with what was shown to myself and Karen, my partner.
They have 9 rounds of their own and plan to develop more , and also want to develop more rounds through selling their systems.
I would be more than happy to look at omnipole, Ionics and Tucker if i was invited, as i would like to have a broad knowledge of the industry.
However i am not an expert in the field of wfp as Trevor has mentioned, and am not looking to appoint myself in that capacity either.
I,m just sharing information that i have witnessed, which should be what a forum is all about.
Paul
-
A bit harsh Trevor, on the comment front!
I was merely observing what i witnessed!
I hope you are not about to tell me i am making things up!!
The 'crew' was a 2 man operation, operating from one van, and the round has been wfp,d for 5 years, i admit that i have never had personal experience of wfp, but i was a traditional window cleaner for one year and have set up 30 wfp rounds so i do know a little bit about it!
Sorry Paul but canvassing rounds is far easier than actually doing the work. I know as I have canvassed and cleaned windows for 15 years!!
Also in my experience of being a trad window cleaner, it was only possible to get through 4 houses per hour, 20 houses is obviously a much quicker and profitable rate, which is all i was trying to explain.Stick to what you know Paul "CANVASSING"!
How can you possibly comment about other systems "not being able to cope" when you have NO knowledge of them??
Trevor
I do not mention anything about any system not being able to cope, so i really do not know where that has come from??
you wrote earlier "but i would argue that most systems would find it hard to go at such a pace." If that isn't saying that other systems wouldn't cope then what is it saying??
Hiya propole, there is no way that you could stick to that rate all day, breaks would need to be taken e.t.c.
But the rate we witnessed WAS achieved in the time described, all i'm saying is, it is worth having a look at the system,if you have'nt already, as we have worked with no other wfp operation that has beaten this performance.
Perhaps there should be some competition set up on the lines of the trad window cleaning comps.
Paul
Perhaps I am wrong Paul but it seems like you have spent time with one supplier (a good one at that) and now you see the need to sing their praises against other suppliers. I feel in this instance that your being perhaps biased, especially as you went there to help them generate new work?
-
You are saying Trevor that i have never done the work of a window cleaner, which is untrue, i have a years experience of traditional and have set up 30 wfp rounds, in the last 2 years, none of which were as quick as the system we saw in caerphilly, so i would class that as most, would'nt you?
I am quite surprised that you are a bit miffed with my comments, when they are all true, is it because you build and supply your own equipment?
I have said in my comments to Dave that i would look at other systems if i was invited to, you can only comment on things based on facts.
But as i said to dave, i am not looking to appoint myself as a wfp guru!
Additionally we have no such working contract in place with concept 2o either!
Are there any Concept 2o franchises out there that can tell us how much they are pulling in per hour/day
And also any other system user, just out of interest?
Paul
-
You are saying Trevor that i have never done the work of a window cleaner, which is untrue, i have a years experience of traditional and have set up 30 wfp rounds, in the last 2 years, none of which were as quick as the system we saw in caerphilly, so i would class that as most, would'nt you?
No Paul I wouldn't say that is most. Have you been and worked with every round and actually done the work yourself?? I know for a fact one person you built a round for that you haven't done the work with them so I think the answer is no! Do you know what method they use or which brand or equipment they operate? Probably not? lets face it, when you visited us you had no idea what system we used!
I am quite surprised that you are a bit miffed with my comments, when they are all true, is it because you build and supply your own equipment?
I have never built or supplied equipment to anyone so wherever you got that idea from god only knows!
I have said in my comments to Dave that i would look at other systems if i was invited to, you can only comment on things based on facts.
Exactly my point, you are passing judgement having visited 1 supplier so how can you possibly comment without seeing the other suppliers!!!!!!
But as i said to dave, i am not looking to appoint myself as a wfp guru!
Are there any Concept 2o franchises out there that can tell us how much they are pulling in per hour/day
And also any other system user, just out of interest?
Paul
-
Paul
you had at least 2 really bad experiences with window cleaners on another forum, I heard of these before i heard of any good comments about what you do, All i ever hear is how you say how good your service is and not once do you ever speak of your bad experiences on this forum , you just tell people what you want them to hear, you said of Paul S ,that you found it very difficult to find work for him because he is expensive for his area , after talking to Paul at windex i can tell you his prices are not much different than most people on this forum, so what you are saying is if Paul had a concept 20 system he would of at least doubled his hourly rate for him or he would of got through the work at least twice as fast. I know Pauls lads work extremely fast in fact faster than most because they are on a strict time scale and profit related pay,
I cannot for the life of me see how a concept 20 ststem can be any faster than any other system, they are all basically the same, filtered water, a hose and a pole and looking back through the post the photo shows a fairly short and heavy hose by todays standard and an everyday extender pole with a vikan brush head which most people here possess.
Are you sure the stage was not already set for you, It has been known before many times.
I think most people here will make there own minds up, window cleaners are not as gullable as a some people would like to believe.
Dave
-
I did'nt realise i had to work with every round as well as my already busy schedule!! There is something called feedback, and a lot of the rounds that we have developed, tell us how they are getting on e.t.c and thats how i know that no other round has matched the £70 in half an hour rate.
30 wfp rounds is'nt a massive amount, but none of them can match or beat the rate stated
I was'nt insinuating that you build your own wfp systems, i was asking if you do that's all!
Is there a single wfp operator out there who earns £140 per hour as a 2 man team, with 1 van?
Paul
-
Is there a single wfp operator out there who earns £140 per hour as a 2 man team, with 1 van?
Paul
I doubt it , no matter what system they use, maybe the odd freak hour but not day in day out , there are about 3000 window cleaners on this forum and they all cant be wrong
-
I did'nt realise i had to work with every round as well as my already busy schedule!! There is something called feedback, and a lot of the rounds that we have developed, tell us how they are getting on e.t.c and thats how i know that no other round has matched the £70 in half an hour rate.
Your job is a canvasser and not an accountant so I wouldn't dream of telling you what I earn
30 wfp rounds is'nt a massive amount, but none of them can match or beat the rate stated
I was'nt insinuating that you build your own wfp systems, i was asking if you do that's all!
Is there a single wfp operator out there who earns £140 per hour as a 2 man team, with 1 van?
Yes there are in certain situations, sometimes more, but to consistently hour upon hour, day upon day hit that target then No there isn't, no matter what system they use.
Paul
-
All businesses have bad experiences Dave, i think most would prefer to forget them, my bad experiences, are almost entirely due to window cleaners not paying their bills, which have put 'doorknockers' in a very bad position financially in the past.
Which is why we had to come up with a system on the payment side that ensured this would'nt happen again.
Everyone should learn from their mistakes, Paul Smiths area was a very hard one to canvass, made more so by the rate paul was charging, £6 was the norm for a 3 bd semi in Coventry, he was charging closer to £15, that's totally his call, as its his business and everyone should set the rate they are happy with and thats that.
However, it did not make the job of signing up customers at all easy.
My canvassers had to walk away from countless numbers of houses purely because they were not going to pay that high a price, nothing to do with the abilities of my canvassers as they frequently get really good results.
We have a long standing member of this forum as a client, also from Coventry, and it was even quite hard to get his required rate of £8 for a 3 bed semi, there seems to be a much higher proportion of w/c in Coventry than almost every other area we have canvassed, and we have now canvassed 50 areas, the North of England also seems to be awash with w/c, especially hartlepool, watford was also a toughie, after 2 and a half hours, with 5 canvassers, not one customer!!
Paul
-
Paul
All i was trying to say is things are not always as they first seem , that is why i gave you the benefit of the doubt and never mentioned your experiences with Paul or Vince on this forum and chose to see how you got on as there were a few here saying you werent too bad, so i let you get on with it without me sticking my size 11s in.
It looks like Paul or people from hartlepool would not earn any where the figures quoted earlier, It may of been that they hit a lucky vane where wfp really suited.
but i suspect it could of been all a part of there sales patter, they would not show you any difficult areas , just the same as you wouldnt lead your advertising with your bad experiences.
Dave
-
Hiya Dave,
I asked for the demo from concept 2o and not the other way round and 10 houses were cleaned, in the time of half an hour! what else can i say?
My experiences with Vince were amicable as far as i am aware, Spain was for both parties, an experiment, Vince wanted more customers, 'Doorknockers' wanted to see if going to another country would be beneficial for both parties concerned, so that maybe we could replicate the process in the future.
The conclusion drawn from Spain was that it was very difficult to attract domestic customers but easier to attract commercial ones, however the manyana attitude of the Spaniards led to 3 large commercial contracts cancelling, despite Vince being present on the sign up of all 3, for whatever reason.
Hello Vince and Karen, by the way if you're reading this by the way, lol
Maybe it would have been better going to Spain in the summer, we went in February, and looking back maybe that was a factor, maybe it was'nt, who knows?
The important thing is we went out there and tried it, and i posted on this forum back in February, on the conclusion of the experience, for other members who may think of Spain as a place to set up, to draw their own conclusions.
One thing for sure though, it is definetley no where near as easy as setting up in the U.K. So members need to bear this in mind if you are thinking to settle out there, or any other country in fact.
Paul
-
Paul
Where did you go for the demo, Was it in Wales ?
Dave
-
Yes in Wales,
Caerphilly
Paul
-
maybe, just maybe, they have a certain area where customers have already been informed that they will be carrying out demo's and will not have to pay for the clean?
I'm not saying this to put down Concept2o but if certain houses are having demo's carried out on them every week then a quick splash and dash is all that is needed to clean the windows - did you look at them before and after the clean?
3 bed semi-s in my area are £6 so 10 would be £60, and if it is a 2 man team then thats 6 mins per house, which while it is certainly possible, no-one would keep that up all day. Don't forget as well the likelihood of having 100's of houses with easy access all close together is very low.
-
At £7 average for each 3 bed semi, this works out at £140 per hour, or £1,120 per 8 hour day.
Paul :)
'Doorknockers'
Paul,
We've heard wild-claims like this in the past; on this forum. Who was that guy selling a 'how to earn 100,000 pounds a year' book by cleaning windows?
He used a similar calculation to yourself to try and sell.
A friend of mine can earn 400 pounds in one day. Fact.
So that's 400 pounds X 365 days of the year = crickey, he's earning 146,000 pounds a year.
(That's a similar calculation to the one you gave for a daily rate).
But - unfortunately for him - he can only do that one-day, every-other-month; if everything falls into place for him.
Also, as already pointed out, Concept 20 systems are similar to other systems in how they work. Their advantage (I think) is the marketing aspect a prestige vehicle and system which may (or may not) give you.
I also agree with some other posters in this thread, just because you have this vehicle does not mean you will earn 100+ pounds per hour. To turn-over that sort of money, you'll need a lot lot more about you than just a posh van and equipment.
The sort of thing you need is what money can't buy.
I only wish I had some of it! :'(
-
Hi Guys
Obviously, Paul has triggered off this debate by seeing a Concept 2o demo which included the van doing 10 houses in 1/2 hour. I don't think there is any dispute that this can be done on regular work (and anyone genuinely interested in buying a WFP system is welcome to see similar demos on genuine rounds with genuine customers paying genuine prices)
Unfortunately, Paul's calculations are entirely theoretical and, unfortunately, not practical.
As a Concept 2o distributor this is the formula we work with regard to 'typical' Concept 2o earnings based on an established residential round:
A 2-man team can clean an average of 10 houses per hour with a typical price of £7 per house. This equates to £70 per hour and, assuming 6 hours work in an 8 hour day, this gives a daily total of £420.
As we all know however, during the winter and sometimes the summer, it is not always possible to work a full five day week, mainly due to weather conditions. Erring on the side of caution, let's assume that on average you can only work 3 days out of 5 (taking into account things like holidays, collection times, unforseen circumstances, etc) you can still collect an average of £1260 per week (or £5040 per 4 weeks) reasonably easily.
Obviously, there are overheads to consider such as equipment finance costs, wages, fuel, admin, etc and there are lots of variables to consider that would affect your earnings. It may be that you have an entirely rural round with large distances between jobs and no estate work, it may be that your average price is less than £7, it may be that there are lots of competitors in your area, it may be you don't have 180 houses to do a week or it may be that you work on your own and just don't like hard work. There are many quite justifiable reasons why Concept 2o owners (or any other system owner for that matter) may not earn this type of money but then for every argument theres a counter argument. Many areas and one off jobs (such as conservatories) do attract higher prices, there are lots of areas that have no competition whatsoever, there are lots of ways of finding work easily (you can even pay someone to find it for you) and there are those that will work whatever hours it takes to get the job done. These are the people that are earning £40, £50, £60k and more with pure water window cleaning. They are out there, keeping themselves to themselves making good money day in, day out.
Can I guarantee you'll earn this sort of money if you buy a Concept 2o system from us? Of course not, because it's down to the operator not me. But, as I've said before, there are a growing number of business people who are seeing this as a sound opportunity, taking the time to look into it properly, making the investment and doing very well out of it, thankyou very much!
This is not for everyone. It is the professional end of the market for professional people. But don't disregard it because you think it can't be done - it can!
Regards
Mike
-
slightly off topic Mike . I ut thought you might want to see this logo
http://www.slsonline.co.uk/
-
Can I ask what makes the concept 20 system different to a normal WFP system?
I don't know alot about it and Im curious how you can clean 10 houses and hour? does this also work when you have a drought order and need to do the grounds by hand? also does the same standard of 10 houses an hour work for employees?
I must admit I know nothing about this system, but to be honest it all sounds a little stretched to say the least. I remember about a year and a half ago when the reach and wash system was really starting to get noticed and all the hype was having a sexy looking system in the back to show all the customers to win jobs? none of my customers care whats in the back they want em clean? and I'm not talkin about miss jones i'm talking 15k a month contracts?
I'm not against this system but please tell me what makes this different from all the other systems on the market? I'm not interested about the frilly bits bout looks and stuff as in my opinon thats more for the owner to get off on than the customer.
Rob
-
slightly off topic Mike . I ut thought you might want to see this logo
http://www.slsonline.co.uk/
Thanks Dave..........
Rob
I don't fully understand why you'd be 'curios' about cleaning 10 houses an hour. Are you saying you don't believe it? I guess what you're also questioning, understandably, is how a Concept 2o system would benefit you instead of your existing system if you're not doing that sort of work already. We're not saying that just by having one you'll suddenly and significantly improve your efficiency (although there are obviously many features that lower water consumption, reduce running costs, etc) but as part of an overall package (including the branding) I think you'd be surprised at the differences between this system and others. Have you considered that the 'frilly' Concept 2o branding might be fundamental in building well planned, concentrated and profitable domestic rounds? If you have to drive 500 yards between customers then of course you can't do 10 an hour!
If you have £15k a month commercial contracts (did I read that correctly!?) then I guess domestic business isn't a main focus for you. If, on the other hand, you are interested in developing this side of the business you, or indeed anyone, are welcome to give us a call to arrange a demo. If we're making it up you can come back here and tell everyone. If not, you might learn some extremely valuable lessons.
Regards
Mike
-
Ok I've got a concept 20 900 lt and have had it for 3 months. I've seen all the posts about backwashing, flushing, changing resin, COST etc. I've filled the tanks 12 times now, 10800 litres and have not had to worry about anything apart from water pressure out of my tap. TDS is still 000. That is what I wanted out of a water fed pole system, that is what I got, thanks to all the team at concept I'm making money where I never thought it would be made.
-
2 thing that im interested to know
1. How much for everything ?? (van,System etc.)
2. Are Mike B and Doorknocker on commision ....(not being cheeky..... Serious question) ;D
-
Mike owns this site and is an Agent for Concept.
Doorknockers have nothing to do with this site other than as a member.