Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: steve123 on May 04, 2015, 05:35:07 pm
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Whats the least amount you have taken anyone to court for?
I have a customer who has tried every trick in the book, promised to drop cash round, not got cash when ever I call, too ill to deliver, given cheques but not signed them, then when she did sign it the damn thing bounced.
I told her I would take her to court and she just laughed and said I would not bother for £52.
That was enough for me. it will cost me £25 to do it but first thing tomorrow I file it with small claims.
I dont care about the money its a principle now. i just want her to have some agro like I have had
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I wouldn't bother with the aggro personally.
Unless agreed in advance if someone owes 2 or more cleans I don't go back until they've paid up. If they don't ever pay then I don't ever go back and just write it off and find a better customer.
I don't go chasing debts, if they can't be bothered to pay then I can't be bothered to clean there windows, simple.
I generally find they come crawling back though, in actual fact a couple of months ago I had a former customer ( who I'd not gone back to as she owed 2 cleans) come out and pay me what she owed, from over a year ago, and asked if I could add her to my rounds again if she pays upfront from now on. I agreed and she paid for the next 3 cleans upfront..
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It is easy to do, but you must give seven days notice in writing...."if the money is not received by... time and date.. you will take legal action to recover the debt and all legal costs"
You will need proof of the debt.
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I'd never take anyone to court.
It's certainly not worth it for £52.
If she's bounced a cheque, you have a cast-iron case. However, if she's got nothing better to do and decides to defend the case, you're stuck at least half a day off work to go to court. Then, if she says she can only afford £2 a week, what are you going to do? Would it be worth chasing her up for her £2 every week? (and you know you'd have to chase her) Then if she just stopped paying you your £2, what would you do?
Move on with a smile on your face. Life's too short to waste it on her.
Vin
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My bad debts run at about 3% per year, so £3 in every hundred.
I clean and dont clean again until I have been paid.
The worst case scenario is losing one clean.
I send statements at around three weeks overdue and most pay.
Most forget to pay. For the others I dont need them.
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I bet she is less bothered about it than you are.
You are the only one stressed out about it. You are the one who will end up with ulcers, not her. You are actually poisoning your self. She is just the catalyst. You can be in control, not her.
I'm with Vin on this one.
Life's too short to waste it on her. As you get older you will appreciate the truth of these words more and more.
Move on with a smile on your face. You can hold your head up as you have done nothing wrong - she has.
And thankfully, these customers are few and far between. I would do an extra couple of cleans a day to clear the debt in my head, then write it off.
And yes, in 12 years of window cleaning we have had one like her. Just one. Thankfully I went on my gut feel and only cleaned once. We usually let it go the 2 and then no more until payment is received.
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This is purely for info...you will not be required to go to court. you put your case in writing, she puts hers...job done.
Its okay for people to say they cannot be bothered... they just make the problem bigger. There seems to be an undercurrent of people who know that you cannot be bothered. Everybody needs to make a stand. Working for nothing is a bummer, and you should not stand for it!!
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This is purely for info...you will not be required to go to court. you put your case in writing, she puts hers...job done.
Its okay for people to say they cannot be bothered... they just make the problem bigger. There seems to be an undercurrent of people who know that you cannot be bothered. Everybody needs to make a stand. Working for nothing is a bummer, and you should not stand for it!!
Sorry mate but you will have to go to court and as somebody who did make a stand I would say forget about it, for
that sort of money its not worth it.
You will spend x amount sitting waiting for your case to be heard she will tell the judge that she wasn't happy with the way
the windows where cleaned or some other crap and the judge will either award it in your favour or hers.
Even if it goes in your favour there's still no guarantee that you will ever see it.
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PS your case will be in front of every other person who is in the small claims court that day, total nightmare.
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Whats the least amount you have taken anyone to court for?
I have a customer who has tried every trick in the book, promised to drop cash round, not got cash when ever I call, too ill to deliver, given cheques but not signed them, then when she did sign it the damn thing bounced.
I told her I would take her to court and she just laughed and said I would not bother for £52.
That was enough for me. it will cost me £25 to do it but first thing tomorrow I file it with small claims.
I dont care about the money its a principle now. i just want her to have some agro like I have had
Dose she have a cat ::)roll Run it over ;D
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Just move on son she is not worth it :)
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HOW MANY CLEANS WAS IT STEVE
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Once again, if you use the online system, you do not go to court!! It is all done on line.
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Try these people http://www.thomashiggins.com/
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Once again, if you use the online system, you do not go to court!! It is all done on line.
That's only if the person admits to owing you the money if not you still have to go to court.
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Better still that person could admit liability but say she cant afford to pay you the full amount, its then up to you
to say what she pays and how she pays it until its all recovered.
If she doesn't agree to this then you go to court and if the judge thinks you where unreasonable they could award the case in
her favour.
The whole things a joke.
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PS your case will be in front of every other person who is in the small claims court that day, total nightmare.
No you don't. Not were I live anyway.
You and her may be sat by a table.
I say do it. She will end up with a CCJ.
She wrote a bounced cheque, so cant say unhappy with clean
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PS your case will be in front of every other person who is in the small claims court that day, total nightmare.
No you don't. Not were I live anyway.
You and her may be sat by a table.
I say do it. She will end up with a CCJ.
She wrote a bounced cheque, so cant say unhappy with clean
Just speaking from experience, funny enough that's what my solicitor told me before taking action, you will just
be in a room together.
Maybe it depends on the day.
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PS your case will be in front of every other person who is in the small claims court that day, total nightmare.
No you don't. Not were I live anyway.
You and her may be sat by a table.
I say do it. She will end up with a CCJ.
She wrote a bounced cheque, so cant say unhappy with clean
Your honour I wrote him a cheque even though I knew it would bounce because I wanted to get him away from my front door
as he was getting aggressive.
Nothing is straight forward in a court case.
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This is purely for info...you will not be required to go to court. you put your case in writing, she puts hers...job done.
Its okay for people to say they cannot be bothered... they just make the problem bigger. There seems to be an undercurrent of people who know that you cannot be bothered. Everybody needs to make a stand. Working for nothing is a bummer, and you should not stand for it!!
I'm one of those who couldn't be bothered.
I couldn't be bothered enough about it in the first place to get that wound up by it in the second. I've got much better things to fill my head with than those types of thoughts.
The decent customers far outweigh the very few who take advantage.
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WEll done some one sticking to his guns and thanks for showing the customer window cleaners don`t take crap. I really mean it for to many just walk away and the customer know we windies are easy pray. We will do nothing as we are spineless bunch. If we stole there hose pipe they would do something about it. For sure.
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WEll done some one sticking to his guns and thanks for showing the customer window cleaners don`t take crap. I really mean it for to many just walk away and the customer know we windies are easy pray. We will do nothing as we are spineless bunch. If we stole there hose pipe they would do something about it. For sure.
You're right Slap bash.
We shouldn't let ourselves be walked over. But the cost and agro involved isn't worth the hassle. It doesn't make economic sense in my opinion.
Even if she went to court and offered to pay £2.00 a week and as Vin says, then stopped, what is the next step? Back to court?
Even if he did get the money, will it stop her trying her luck again with another windie.
I've had one customer in 12 years (10 years wfp) pull this. For me that's 1 customer in 953 that I have had or have on the books.
If they owe money and move locally, I will find them eventually on principle and extract what they owe. But I won't take them to court for a small amount.
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Egg the bitch's windows. Won't get your money, but it will sure feel good ;D
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I'd never take anyone to court.
It's certainly not worth it for £52.
If she's bounced a cheque, you have a cast-iron case. However, if she's got nothing better to do and decides to defend the case, you're stuck at least half a day off work to go to court. Then, if she says she can only afford £2 a week, what are you going to do? Would it be worth chasing her up for her £2 every week? (and you know you'd have to chase her) Then if she just stopped paying you your £2, what would you do?
Move on with a smile on your face. Life's too short to waste it on her.
Vin
I will second that :)
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I'd never take anyone to court.
It's certainly not worth it for £52.
If she's bounced a cheque, you have a cast-iron case. However, if she's got nothing better to do and decides to defend the case, you're stuck at least half a day off work to go to court. Then, if she says she can only afford £2 a week, what are you going to do? Would it be worth chasing her up for her £2 every week? (and you know you'd have to chase her) Then if she just stopped paying you your £2, what would you do?
Move on with a smile on your face. Life's too short to waste it on her.
Vin
I will second that :)
I third that. I have one at the moment who owes me 12 euros for a clean that I did for her 3 years ago. She now wants me to clean them again, and has been asking for a couple of months. I have agreed to if she pays what she owes, plus the fresh clean upfront. She says all the right things, but I still haven't been paid, so her windows continue to be minging. It's like a game with some people. I used to stress over a few unpaid cleans, but I now inwardly laugh about it. Yes, we may be seen as a soft touch sometimes, but these people who think they have the advantage over us always lose out in the end, whilst we can move on and keep on servicing our genuine customers.
John
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These types of people do it with everybody, I dumped one a few years back and found out that she hadn't paid
the grass cutter and a guy for clearing out her gutters.
I'm sure there's a lot more on the list so it not just shiners that are easy targets.
Luckily theses types are few and far between and as long as you don't let them run up too many cleans we shouldn't get
stung for much.
I have mates who are self employed builders and they have lost thousands over the years even after chasing it through
the courts.
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Had one a bit like this but always apologetic (not saying "you won't take me to court" like yours) her cheque bounced too. Only £24.00 + £4 for bounced cheque. I went on line and printed the forms ready for court and sent them to her - saying they would be entered in seven days. I also attached a letter saying i would be adding my initial solicitors costs of £24.00 for a letter thus totalling £52.00.
She still didn't pay. So my little rottweiler (Mrs Gold the accounts lady) said let me try. She went round and got paid cash on the spot.
Work that one out.
Oh and last month the ex-custie asked me to clean her windows again and I just laughed and said "you don't remember me do you?" and just shook my head.
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With residential customers, my bad debt per year is anything between zero and about £200 maximum. I know I should chase the bad ones but I have trouble detaching from it emotionally. I've had enough problems in life without listening to a bad payer's bullpoo.
Honestly, it's easier for me if they just say that they're not going to pay me. It's when they start lying that I can get wound up - so I don't let it get that far.
I know a guy (not a window cleaner) who saved up all his junk mail and delivered it in one go to a non payer. Personally, I think he would have been better off filling it in with the bad payer's contact details.
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Oh and last month the ex-custie asked me to clean her windows again and I just laughed and said "you don't remember me do you?" and just shook my head.
I've had a couple of incidents like this down the years. Not remembering the face of the person they had ripped off was more insulting than being ripped off in the first place :)
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Had one a bit like this but always apologetic (not saying "you won't take me to court" like yours) her cheque bounced too. Only £24.00 + £4 for bounced cheque. I went on line and printed the forms ready for court and sent them to her - saying they would be entered in seven days. I also attached a letter saying i would be adding my initial solicitors costs of £24.00 for a letter thus totalling £52.00.
She still didn't pay. So my little rottweiler (Mrs Gold the accounts lady) said let me try. She went round and got paid cash on the spot.
Work that one out.
Oh and last month the ex-custie asked me to clean her windows again and I just laughed and said "you don't remember me do you?" and just shook my head.
I'd've said yes.
Then not gone.
I'd hope they'd see me at least 5 or 6 times and I'd say yes each time.
Getting to 10 would make me smile as much as farting as I walk out of a packed lift.
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I went to court twice in the last 6 years. The first to recover £300, the second to recover £75. I won both. I didn't have to attend. I did both through Thos Higgins. It was a bit of hassle for the second one, but like the OP it's the principle. She ended up paying well over £200 to me to cover my costs. I probably got back £45.
I live in a small village and this woman was well-known in the village, though not to me. I don't know what sort of reputation she has. I risked alienating people in the village with my actions, a calculated risk but in the end it didn't work out like that, mind you I didn't broadcast the situation. I did feel that a principle is worth standing up for and if word got around I'd sue, well it might stop me or someone else getting mugged off.
Personally it winds me up, so if it's a reasonable amount I'd go for it. Warning though - I sent a bill, final demand, Letter before Action and only THEN did I go to court. Do a bit or research and approach it professionally is my advice.
A bounced cheque is a cast iron win.
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£10.... have written plenty off over the years, but that one irked somewhat... they got CCJ for their troubles...
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Carl2009 touched on an important point there.
If you take her to court and "win", what do you actually win? You'll end up worse off financially and will have made yourself an enemy.
After she's been ordered by a court to pay up what's to stop her mouthing off about how terrible your service was and how you'd bullied her into paying?
I've only ever threatened court once. Not for window cleaning as it happens but £300, which after sending a letter demanding payment or going to court, arrived within a week.
I'm not saying move on or leave it. I keep a record off every one that's not paid before moving or whatever. You just never know what might happen.
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I see the point of not going to court, but I remember a time when customers in her salon would have there hir done then find fault and refuse to pay. E took a few to small claims court. Its was just a matter of a short time and it stopped . All you need is it to go around that window cleaner don`t allow none payment and believe me it will stop. I bet other businesses are paid pronto. Its because we are in what they call informal sector that customers perceive none payment as the norm. The problem we are not allowing our industry to mature. As its just like to much trouble.
If we allow the status quot why should we have public liability insurance and other professional trappings.
When WFP became popular we made the first step into a professional business and we need to move on still more. I do realize there are many who feel progress is just to hard to change to. But its for the fellas who will come after us that we need to change . AS many of our children will be window cleaners its worth the change or are we building a business to close down after we are gone to the big window in the sky.
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Millions of people are in debt in this country to all manner of different businesses, it's not just window cleaners that don't get paid. Unfortunately we live in a society of debt.
There's not much we can do to get the money if we get knocked as the amounts owed are usually a very small amount and not worth chasing. The only way to cut our losses is to NEVER clean more than once if the customer hasn't paid. If they havn't paid for the first clean, what makes you think they will pay for the second and third cleans?
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The fact that most people are honourabele and do pay their bills., even if they do owe more than one clean.
We've been trading 17 years and I can honestly say I can only recall two jobs that we've not been paid for. One was for £40, we got £20 out of her in the end and the other was a weeks worth of commercial work for a client about 8 years ago.
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Yep have always had a pay before the next clean policy so have never been stung for more than one clean.
Allowing customers to run up a tab honourable or not is off no benefit to me so totally agree with Hampshire on this one.