Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mick Kent on April 09, 2015, 08:06:32 pm
-
Today i have been on a school builders clean and all the windows were covered in render dust and grime..
Pure alone wasnt cutting it so i bought some viacal limescale remover as needed something for the limescale marks which i sprayed on the glass before i poled which worked a treat and gave off a nice lemon smell. It bubbled an awful lot however when they dried out they dried perfectly!. Is vision the same sort of thing with its orange smell and bubbles??? If so then what a con!
-
Maybe !!!
-
There's several ingrediants in Vision .
-
Today i have been on a school builders clean and all the windows were covered in render dust and grime..
Pure alone wasnt cutting it so i bought some viacal limescale remover as needed something for the limescale marks which i sprayed on the glass before i poled which worked a treat and gave off a nice lemon smell. It bubbled an awful lot however when they dried out they dried perfectly!. Is vision the same sort of thing with its orange smell and bubbles??? If so then what a con!
I'm sure if people could work out what was in vision they would be posting it everywhere.
We have even had people saying that they are sending it to a laboratory to get tested and prove what was in it.
Funnily enough they have gone very quiet. :)
Vision isn't a rebranded product or something you can buy anywhere else. It has different ingredients all blended together in a specific way with a specific ratio.
No con here mick.
Put vision side by side with any other product and you will see the difference.
-
Yep I clearly see a difference
(http://new.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1428642203_image.jpg)
(http://new.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1428642221_image.jpg)
Very old Georgian windows, flaky paint, ivy all round them, cleaned twice a year - not a spot or run in sight
Using gg4
Darran
-
vision leaves a better shine all around.no idea whats in it,i care even less really.it also reduces runs from top seals.
its interesting that there was already i pure water additive on the market(gg4)before vision was even invented.most of us didnt know about it though.
in use do you notice any difference between vision and gg4 ?as i know you ve used both darran.
cheers
dazmond
-
I think people were playing about with home made additives for years , chucking ecover in the water, isopropanol, rinse aid etc. One guy on here even chucked some white spirit in his tank! (don't try that one).
I don't think any of them could possibly make a massive difference to cleaning speeds, same as hot water doesn't make a huge difference most of the time.
GG4 seems to give an edge to the result, not much but enough to add a bit of sparkle. Seems to thin the water down a bit on the glass. Titan Labs say it has an ingredient to combat calcium deposits, as I live in a hard water area I'm hoping it might break down the hose pipe spots and mineral deposits we get.
Vision seems to work differently from what I can gather as it would appear to change the viscosity of water and make it gloopy. Sounds like it might float to the top of the tank too as people report the bubbles increasing towards the end of the day.
I've never used vision, just what I've read on here and other forums. The guys that use it seem happy.
-
Thats what im saying, using viakal it left a great shine and came up better than if i just used pure..alongside bubbles and a nice smell. Any kitchen limescale remover would do the same job as it eats through grime especialy mixed with approx 99 percent pure water leaving a spotless super finish. Im not saying vision is a con, im just saying viakal worked the same.
-
Thats what im saying, using viakal it left a great shine and came up better than if i just used pure..alongside bubbles and a nice smell. Any kitchen limescale remover would do the same job as it eats through grime especialy mixed with approx 99 percent pure water leaving a spotless super finish. Im not saying vision is a con, im just saying viakal worked the same.
I have used Unger's Rub Out on a few jobs. Not come across hard water spots it cant remove. I apply with a rag and rub in. I let it "eat" for a good 5 mins. I then WFP off. The results are the same with Vision. Ie the same shine.
I think just pure water eventually leaves a clean but dull look. This vision is giving frames and glass that ZING look.
-
Vision leaves the frames brighter and gives them a shine .
The windows are very shiny too .
Be careful using various products as some will penetrate your plastic water tank and damage window seals .
Vision doesn't damage any of the above .
Also many products in these sunny hotter days will dry too quickly and cause smearing etc .
Vision been used in Australia and that's a good test for drying out .
It is now sold over there
-
Be careful using various products as some will penetrate your plastic water tank and damage window seals .
Vision doesn't damage any of the above .
If someone were to ask you to prove this/back it up with evidence what would that person be told? I mean you're making two statements there, one - that vision does not penetrate water tanks and two - other products penetrate water tanks.
Id like to see how it is you're able to make statements of that nature.
-
can vision be used thru a hot water system
-
Yep
-
Where do you buy vision from. Usual wfp outlets?
-
my pure water go through DI resin, can i use vision without damaging the resin?
Thanks
Ben
-
Yep I clearly see a difference
(http://new.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1428642203_image.jpg)
(http://new.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1428642221_image.jpg)
Very old Georgian windows, flaky paint, ivy all round them, cleaned twice a year - not a spot or run in sight
Using gg4
Darran
hi
Darren what dosage do you use gg4 at and were do you buy yours any links please cheers
-
my pure water go through DI resin, can i use vision without damaging the resin?
Thanks
Ben
At the moment you can't use vision if you have a DI vessel after your tank. We are working on a solution though and should be available soon.
-
Be careful using various products as some will penetrate your plastic water tank and damage window seals .
Vision doesn't damage any of the above .
If someone were to ask you to prove this/back it up with evidence what would that person be told? I mean you're making two statements there, one - that vision does not penetrate water tanks and two - other products penetrate water tanks.
Id like to see how it is you're able to make statements of that nature.
-
Simples . One substance I used caused a problem with a storage tank I had .
Vision been tried and tested ..
-
Today i have been on a school builders clean and all the windows were covered in render dust and grime..
Pure alone wasnt cutting it so i bought some viacal limescale remover as needed something for the limescale marks which i sprayed on the glass before i poled which worked a treat and gave off a nice lemon smell. It bubbled an awful lot however when they dried out they dried perfectly!. Is vision the same sort of thing with its orange smell and bubbles??? If so then what a con!
The biggest con of all is that Pure water is great at cleaning. Apparently even purer water (PPB) is even better !!! :-)
-
Simples . One substance I used caused a problem with a storage tank I had .
Vision been tried and tested ..
That's not a test, that's a perception. You have no data to prove your point it would seem. You had a problem with a storage tank. Most storage tanks absorb chemicals that are stored in them unless they're food grade.
Anyway, please expand on the issue - a problem? What was that? A residue of the concentrate in later fillings? That's not a reflection of the product but of the plastic used to make the tank.
It would've done the same with Vision most likely.
'Tried and tested'. What were these tests? You just looked in the tank and kinda figured it looked like there wasn't any Vision absorbed into the plastic; but also thought it looked like GG4 had been absorbed. Before you start making outlandish statements about a product you're flogging you need to back them up with evidence. Thinking, figuring, guessing or hoping something does or doesn't do what you claim isn't enough, isn't professional and isn't legal.
These statements you've just made have totally discredited this product in my eyes.
It would be great if you could prove me wrong, I love s trier as much as the next man but someone trying to hoodwink others for financial gain is fair game in my eyes. Please, prove me wrong and show us your data/tests and evidence that proves your statements.
-
Be careful using various products as some will penetrate your plastic water tank and damage window seals .
So surely using Virosol at approximately 4,000 times the strength of Vision on conservatory cleans is going to render window seals extinct? Non-existent? Kappoot?
-
I think your jumping to a lot of conclusions . The substance I used I haven't even named .
I haven't even mentioned Virosol !!
or GG4 .
-
I'm not jumping to any conclusions, I used that product as its a popular product, we use it and it is thought of as one of the more powerful or caustic available. That's why I used that as an example.
I presume you're not going to answer that particular question then, but just try to dodge it by making some sort of irrelevant counter claim. Shame.
So, how about the post I made previous to the Virosol post? Would we, your customers, please be able to have a concise response to that please?
-
Simples . One substance I used caused a problem with a storage tank I had .
Vision been tried and tested ..
That's not a test, that's a perception. You have no data to prove your point it would seem. You had a problem with a storage tank. Most storage tanks absorb chemicals that are stored in them unless they're food grade.
Anyway, please expand on the issue - a problem? What was that? A residue of the concentrate in later fillings? That's not a reflection of the product but of the plastic used to make the tank.
It would've done the same with Vision most likely.
'Tried and tested'. What were these tests? You just looked in the tank and kinda figured it looked like there wasn't any Vision absorbed into the plastic; but also thought it looked like GG4 had been absorbed. Before you start making outlandish statements about a product you're flogging you need to back them up with evidence. Thinking, figuring, guessing or hoping something does or doesn't do what you claim isn't enough, isn't professional and isn't legal.
These statements you've just made have totally discredited this product in my eyes.
It would be great if you could prove me wrong, I love s trier as much as the next man but someone trying to hoodwink others for financial gain is fair game in my eyes. Please, prove me wrong and show us your data/tests and evidence that proves your statements.
I think what kempy is saying is that we have had issues In the past with certain things we were testing, but to be honest we are not here to discredit other things, or other additves. All we know about is vision and that's the only thing we can answer questions about, I will try and answer your questions......
Firstly how do we know vision is safe to use in water tanks and double glazed units etc?
We have contacts in the glazing industry, and they have tested vision for us. They submerged the double glazing seals in the undiluted vision and left for long periods of time. Then the seals are removed, cleaned, dried and checked to see if they have degraded/misshaped in any shape or form.
The conclusion that the glaziers came to is that vision is very safe on double glazed units and plastics. Especially when you consider that it was the concentrated version that was tested, and not what we actually use in the real world.
Secondly how is Vision tried and tested?
Before it's release last year, it had been in use for 12 months in the uk, Australia, and America. All different climates, with different methods of use. Some were dosing directly into a storage tank, and some had a way of dosing after the DI vessel straight into pure water. There was not one issue that was encountered even though many were using it, in different circumstances.
As for gg4 and virosol this isn't what kempy was talking about. Titan labs and clover I'm sure would have gone through the same if not more stringent testing than we did.
Hope that helps answer your questions.
I'm still very aware that we havnt yet paid for advertising on this site so if anyone has any questions please feel free to email me and I'll get back to you asap.
Shop@jigsaw-innovations.co.uk
-
Vision is a nano tech product sold by Purple rhino as he said on this forum then withdrew his statement to cover his tracks. I do not care what it is as long as it works good luck to the fellas who tested it. Its like Rainex they can say what they like.
-
Simples . One substance I used caused a problem with a storage tank I had .
Vision been tried and tested ..
That's not a test, that's a perception. You have no data to prove your point it would seem. You had a problem with a storage tank. Most storage tanks absorb chemicals that are stored in them unless they're food grade.
Anyway, please expand on the issue - a problem? What was that? A residue of the concentrate in later fillings? That's not a reflection of the product but of the plastic used to make the tank.
It would've done the same with Vision most likely.
'Tried and tested'. What were these tests? You just looked in the tank and kinda figured it looked like there wasn't any Vision absorbed into the plastic; but also thought it looked like GG4 had been absorbed. Before you start making outlandish statements about a product you're flogging you need to back them up with evidence. Thinking, figuring, guessing or hoping something does or doesn't do what you claim isn't enough, isn't professional and isn't legal.
These statements you've just made have totally discredited this product in my eyes.
It would be great if you could prove me wrong, I love s trier as much as the next man but someone trying to hoodwink others for financial gain is fair game in my eyes. Please, prove me wrong and show us your data/tests and evidence that proves your statements.
I think what kempy is saying is that we have had issues In the past with certain things we were testing, but to be honest we are not here to discredit other things, or other additves. All we know about is vision and that's the only thing we can answer questions about, I will try and answer your questions......
Firstly how do we know vision is safe to use in water tanks and double glazed units etc?
We have contacts in the glazing industry, and they have tested vision for us. They submerged the double glazing seals in the undiluted vision and left for long periods of time. Then the seals are removed, cleaned, dried and checked to see if they have degraded/misshaped in any shape or form.
The conclusion that the glaziers came to is that vision is very safe on double glazed units and plastics. Especially when you consider that it was the concentrated version that was tested, and not what we actually use in the real world.
Secondly how is Vision tried and tested?
Before it's release last year, it had been in use for 12 months in the uk, Australia, and America. All different climates, with different methods of use. Some were dosing directly into a storage tank, and some had a way of dosing after the DI vessel straight into pure water. There was not one issue that was encountered even though many were using it, in different circumstances.
As for gg4 and virosol this isn't what kempy was talking about. Titan labs and clover I'm sure would have gone through the same if not more stringent testing than we did.
Hope that helps answer your questions.
I'm still very aware that we havnt yet paid for advertising on this site so if anyone has any questions please feel free to email me and I'll get back to you asap.
Shop@jigsaw-innovations.co.uk
Thanks for that, a little clarification but you haven't addressed this claim made by Kempy about Vision not leeching out of the plastic that tanks are made of whilst it does with other products, although these products haven't been named, which is odd if it's true.
Regarding your analysis of seals on window frames, you have explained your thinking and analysis on this. The conclusion being that Vision does not corrode window seals. Which is good.
But nor do other products. Do they?
Can someone please give some clarity on this issue, its surely something you can do if you have data and analysis on the topic. Ive asked this three times now, or are we to assume its not quite as it was initially stated? Please. Thankyou in anticipation.
-
Vision is a nano tech product sold by Purple rhino as he said on this forum then withdrew his statement to cover his tracks. I do not care what it is as long as it works good luck to the fellas who tested it. Its like Rainex they can say what they like.
Sorry slap bash but that's not true.
We have no association with purple rhino, and vision isn't nano. Nano technology makes things hydrophobic, which is the opposite to what we would like to achieve.
We also don't want to coat the glass in anything as this will lead to issues down the line.
-
Simples . One substance I used caused a problem with a storage tank I had .
Vision been tried and tested ..
That's not a test, that's a perception. You have no data to prove your point it would seem. You had a problem with a storage tank. Most storage tanks absorb chemicals that are stored in them unless they're food grade.
Anyway, please expand on the issue - a problem? What was that? A residue of the concentrate in later fillings? That's not a reflection of the product but of the plastic used to make the tank.
It would've done the same with Vision most likely.
'Tried and tested'. What were these tests? You just looked in the tank and kinda figured it looked like there wasn't any Vision absorbed into the plastic; but also thought it looked like GG4 had been absorbed. Before you start making outlandish statements about a product you're flogging you need to back them up with evidence. Thinking, figuring, guessing or hoping something does or doesn't do what you claim isn't enough, isn't professional and isn't legal.
These statements you've just made have totally discredited this product in my eyes.
It would be great if you could prove me wrong, I love s trier as much as the next man but someone trying to hoodwink others for financial gain is fair game in my eyes. Please, prove me wrong and show us your data/tests and evidence that proves your statements.
I think what kempy is saying is that we have had issues In the past with certain things we were testing, but to be honest we are not here to discredit other things, or other additves. All we know about is vision and that's the only thing we can answer questions about, I will try and answer your questions......
Firstly how do we know vision is safe to use in water tanks and double glazed units etc?
We have contacts in the glazing industry, and they have tested vision for us. They submerged the double glazing seals in the undiluted vision and left for long periods of time. Then the seals are removed, cleaned, dried and checked to see if they have degraded/misshaped in any shape or form.
The conclusion that the glaziers came to is that vision is very safe on double glazed units and plastics. Especially when you consider that it was the concentrated version that was tested, and not what we actually use in the real world.
Secondly how is Vision tried and tested?
Before it's release last year, it had been in use for 12 months in the uk, Australia, and America. All different climates, with different methods of use. Some were dosing directly into a storage tank, and some had a way of dosing after the DI vessel straight into pure water. There was not one issue that was encountered even though many were using it, in different circumstances.
As for gg4 and virosol this isn't what kempy was talking about. Titan labs and clover I'm sure would have gone through the same if not more stringent testing than we did.
Hope that helps answer your questions.
I'm still very aware that we havnt yet paid for advertising on this site so if anyone has any questions please feel free to email me and I'll get back to you asap.
Shop@jigsaw-innovations.co.uk
Thanks for that, a little clarification but you haven't addressed this claim made by Kempy about Vision not leeching out of the plastic that tanks are made of whilst it does with other products, although these products haven't been named, which is odd if it's true.
Regarding your analysis of seals on window frames, you have explained your thinking and analysis on this. The conclusion being that Vision does not corrode window seals. Which is good.
But nor do other products. Do they?
Can someone please give some clarity on this issue, its surely something you can do if you have data and analysis on the topic. Ive asked this three times now, or are we to assume its not quite as it was initially stated? Please. Thankyou in anticipation.
Unfortunately there are certain products and parts of products that do have a negative effect on seals, inparticular double glazed units.
Certain things we tested in the early stages were found to Have a negative long term effect on double glazed units. As I've said though, vision is the only thing I will comment on, as it is what we know and have tested, and know is safe to use.
-
So ideally, from a Jig-Saw's point of view, Kempy shouldn't have said what he did regarding non-leeching of Vision out of the plastic that tanks are made from?
-
Here we go again ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :o