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UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Brendan (chem2clean) on February 19, 2015, 09:42:42 pm

Title: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Brendan (chem2clean) on February 19, 2015, 09:42:42 pm
If I am honest , I think I need to try some of the new encapping products and a machine like a cimex . If I have a large commercial I usually Hwe and use my low speed rotary. Time consuming , am I working to hard unnecessarily .?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 19, 2015, 09:45:55 pm
Yes
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Brendan (chem2clean) on February 19, 2015, 10:50:25 pm
 :o
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 20, 2015, 07:52:52 am
You dont need  to go to the expense of a cimex to start encapping mate,  I use my Chemspec Chemstractor more than my Cimex for most comercial jobs, all you need is a good low speed rotary some buff or fibre plus pads from CSUK and the chemical and there is loads to choose from !


Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Brendan (chem2clean) on February 20, 2015, 02:08:00 pm
Hey Stuart , I have been what is now called encapping for 20 years. I have stuck with the same machines 175 rotary, pads and bonnets and the same products . Just don't feel that it cleans as good as when I use both systems. When I look at some pics of rat nasties, a cimex and dynamall I am amazed...
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: William Sharpe on February 20, 2015, 05:08:18 pm
I have just completed a large reception and corridor area of a country club. I started with encap -pre-vac spray on a top of the range encap solution and completed about 40 sqm when decided this was not giving a great result went back onto HWE firstly over where i encapped and the colour of the water was black like guiness. carried on to complete the other 300sqm with extraction which ended up quicker and with far better results. So unless i'm doing something wrong I will stick to HWE :)

Reg
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 20, 2015, 05:31:01 pm
Chem2clean

I have been bonnet cleaning for about 20 years but when I discovered you can get a much better result using a pad with an encapp chemical I stopped using bonnets,  the shower feed on the Chemstractor combined with the right pad and chemical just about cuts through the dirtiest mingers
I only use the Cimes for large open spaces such as corridors ect, the rest are cleaned with the Chemstractor


Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 20, 2015, 06:37:07 pm
I encap as much as possible as I'm getting on and I can cover huge areas within budgets that company's want to spend .
 
Plus points

It drys fast
It solves wick back problems
It stops over wetting odour problems
It's fast
It's cheap to set up
Customers love it
I love it
June really loves it
It makes me earn a high hourly rate
It gives a instant great visual appearance
I have never had one complaint using this method the opposite in fact


Bad points

It dosent deep clean .
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: gwrightson on February 20, 2015, 07:11:24 pm
I encap as much as possible as I'm getting on and I can cover huge areas within budgets that company's want to spend .
 
Plus points

It drys fast
It solves wick back problems
It stops over wetting odour problems
It's fast
It's cheap to set up
Customers love it
I love it
June really loves it
It makes me earn a high hourly rate
It gives a instant great visual appearance
I have never had one complaint using this method the opposite in fact


Bad points

It dosent deep clean .

I willl go along with that.

geoff
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: carpetmonsters on February 20, 2015, 08:09:18 pm
Stuart

What pads and chems do you use? Same on all carpets?

Steve
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: peter maybury on February 20, 2015, 08:16:28 pm
With a descent extraction system You will still get fast drying without odour problems. Wick back is also something that can be foreseen and overcome.
I do a lot of encapping but there are a lot of situations where you will get a better result with HWE. On many small commercial jobs it is a lot quicker to set up and do the carpets with the truckmount as a wand is a lot easier to use a wand that a rotary, in tight areas. If you are having odour problems due to over wetting you are definitely doing something wrong.
Peter
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Brendan (chem2clean) on February 20, 2015, 08:46:11 pm
Sound Stewart , yeah I can see where the cimex would be awkward in a small cluttered commercial , I'd say your eyes light up when you price a large open plan odfice😉😉😉
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 20, 2015, 10:59:41 pm
Peter

I haven't got a truckmount and don't want a truck mount .

I have a rotary and a few pads a sprayer and some encap . Cost £200

I don't have odour problems or wick back as I encap .

They don't know what a truckmount is and I'm sure they are excellent and earn you tons .but I'm in a different position
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 21, 2015, 12:48:27 pm
Chem2clean
I have a large installation to clean next week, should take about four days, will be using the Cimex for that one as its in exess of 25,000 sq ft
it usually takes 5-6 days with the chestractor, high quality  low profile carpet, willbe using white/ buff pads and a combination of Odour kill plus at 20 /1 and releasit DS2
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 21, 2015, 01:13:01 pm
Chem2clean

Are you mixing the two products together or post spraying with door kill plus

Cheers Neil
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Simon Campbell on February 21, 2015, 01:49:06 pm
Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

I've just volunteered at a local hospice thinking I would just be a dogs body but as it turns out I think I will be cleaning all the carpets and chairs when I go one day a month.

I did the reception carpet last night with a thermadry and Craftex catalyst using bonnets. It did an ok job and this method has done great in the past but last night I was left wondering how could I get that wow factor.

I think this will actually be a good opportunity to hone my commercials skills. So my question was going to be does encapp work and what chemicals to use?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Brendan (chem2clean) on February 21, 2015, 02:21:56 pm
Neill , I have never used odour kill plus, is it good? Mainly use prochem products.

Stewart , nice contract 25,000. It's jobs like that the cimex would come into it's own. What about the desk area, ifs it's heavily soiled do you Hwe this area?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 21, 2015, 02:31:20 pm
Sorry I meant Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 21, 2015, 03:09:01 pm
Chem2clean firstly its an up market care home, it never gets realy dirty, I am there every other month, but it gets a full clean once a year !  I will take my Chemstractor as well as a Dryfusion machine also and I have a mini hos for the stairs and such like,

neil I use mainly Chemspecs Odour Kill plus at 20 to 1 it is an encapsulant you know ? And when the carpets are post vacumed a few days later by the staff which incidently all use BS36s it will reactive the smell

I will use Releasit Ds for the stairs and lobby's

Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Robin Ray on February 21, 2015, 03:50:07 pm
Does the Chemstractor not have the added benefit of extracting as you bonnet. Or do you just use it as a normal rotary?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 21, 2015, 04:03:20 pm
The Chemstracter has a ten litre chemical tank and a shower feed system, it does have an extraction device but I dont use it
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Robin Ray on February 21, 2015, 05:04:35 pm
Ah... so essentially you are just using a normal rotary and getting good results.

I always feel a bit like a fraud using encap or bonneting as I know if I extracted the water would be black but on some large stuff it would just take forever to extract.

I have heard of Jason L using a 400 rpm machine to bonnet, does any one else. I have only tried with my 150 Rpm but have just got a new 400 and wondered if there may be some advantage?

Rob

Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 21, 2015, 05:13:29 pm
I didn't know that staurt thanks , will give it a go
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 21, 2015, 05:58:12 pm
Robin

Jason may have tons of experience using rotarys, I dont know but be very carefull as using that higher speed on carpets can do irepairable damage, IICRC recomend 175 rpm I know the likes of Dryfusion are faster because when I used my Chemstractor for the first time, I couldn't believe how slow it was compared to the DF machine
 As ive said in previous posts I only use the cimex for larger areas and rotarys for everything else

Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: JandS on February 22, 2015, 12:10:59 pm
Stuart....do you mean Kill Odour Plus...it says mix at nearly 1:4 not 1:20..... ???
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: derek west on February 22, 2015, 12:42:35 pm
This room will be professionally encapped at the TACCA training day this year whichis open to non members as well as members. I too am not getting on with encapping so will be great to see just how its done properly, how much sprayed down, how much dwell how much going over etc...

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1424608762_Downsized tacca marketing suite.jpg)

Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 22, 2015, 04:55:19 pm
J and S
yes mate Odourkill plus but at 20 to 1 , four to one is for bad contamination and hwe afterwards and 10 to 1 for normal hwe , however 20 to 1 for encap


stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: JandS on February 22, 2015, 07:13:59 pm
Cheers Stuart didn't realise it was an encap doesn't say so on website.
I always encap by rotary brushing it in do you find the pad does a better job?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 22, 2015, 07:59:27 pm
I only use pads now, light brown/ buff I find the best or white
it was a tip I got from Jamie Pearson, been cleaning comercial maintenance for nearly 20 years but have inly been using pads for about a year, I would never go back to bonnets, a much better clean more agitation and no laundry costs whatsoever


Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: peter maybury on February 23, 2015, 07:33:43 pm
Neil
The statement that you made about over wetting smells etc are basically the scare tactics that LM s  use to try to dish HWE.
It would take an incompetent operator with crap equipment to create those situation.
It is a negative sell.
When I approach customer  am able to offer honest impartial advice as I have all the systems to offer and have an understanding that there is not one system that is right for every situation. It is professional pride that has made me want to be proficient at all levels of the industry. In many of the commercial jobs that I do very often a combination clean is required on one or more visits to get the carpets to a standard where just encapping is sufficient to achieve a quality result with encap alone.  There are however a lot of varying standards and competence levels and what one would deem a quality result another would not.

Peter
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 23, 2015, 08:54:22 pm
Peter

I agree

As a business decision encap is for better for me .

As for smells odors, wick back all these happen with a large  no of hwe operators that aren't incompetent , you only have to search the forums to see that.



Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: peter maybury on February 25, 2015, 08:32:51 am
No Neil there are a lot of incompetent operators thinking they are competent,  you only have to look at the number of people in this industry that have had no formal training.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 25, 2015, 11:50:38 am
Just an update ! The care home I was cleaning this week was finished yesterday afternoon, we started monday morning about 8am finished monday afternoon about 5pm then started again yesterday at 8 and finished at around 1pm yesterday afternoon, I only used the Cimex its so easy , I took the Chemstractor but diddnt use it in the end, I used aprox 10 litres of Chemspec Odour Kill Plus
not a bad return eh ?


Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: neil 47 on February 25, 2015, 06:15:42 pm
peter

I agree Training should be a ongoing commitment to your business.

But as there is no governing enforcement dept, theres not a lot that can be done.

and by the way the two occasions that ive had complaints about smell, it  has been wool carpets  and after telling them to keep windows and air movment speech, they shut all the doors windows and went off for the day.

if i had encapped it would of been dry when i left.

I,m over the moon with my buffer and encap, sod £20,000 truckmounts , encap returns about £200 a litre and i use their leccy its Great !
Quote
im even getting my competence at mixing presprays
;D ;D





 
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: mark_roberts on February 28, 2015, 01:59:22 pm
Neil do you encapsulate domestics and if so why?

Mark
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: feldon on February 28, 2015, 02:59:04 pm
I only use pads now, light brown/ buff I find the best or white
it was a tip I got from Jamie Pearson, been cleaning comercial maintenance for nearly 20 years but have inly been using pads for about a year, I would never go back to bonnets, a much better clean more agitation and no laundry costs whatsoever


Stuart

Hi Stuart when you say white pads do you mean the ones used for finishing polishing hard floors?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on February 28, 2015, 07:59:01 pm
Yes Richard I do mate, although I tend to us3 the tan/ buff type more



Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Chip Ward on March 01, 2015, 08:40:30 am
Anybody using Chemspecs Enzyme Carpet shampoo for encap cleaning?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: *Hector* on March 01, 2015, 08:51:58 am
Yes Richard I do mate, although I tend to us3 the tan/ buff type more



Stuart

I used to find that the tan/buff ones gave me just the right amount of agitation to do the job at a good speed. I had to go slower with the white pad, as it just sort of skimmed the surface..... Do NOT use a green or black pad.....
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on March 01, 2015, 10:28:35 am
Chip
I've used Chemspecs powdered Enzyme shampoo through the Chemstactor but with the rotary brush and the extraction ring on it i haven't used it for years mind you !  The last time I can recollect was a system ten in a restaurant,  I was a bit concerned it may of shrunk using hwe so that is why I used that system and it was a real Minger

To be honest this isnt what you would call an encapsulating chemical

Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Chip Ward on March 01, 2015, 11:49:22 am
Thanks Stuart,

I last used many years ago and wondered if it might be suitable as I have some low profile nylon carpet tiles in a restaurant  to low moisture clean. They have light protien build up near the kitchen and on drink spills etc
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on March 01, 2015, 12:33:05 pm
Chip
you would probably get a very good result, but you might get a better result with a HD encap ?
 I've used Dynamal and Hydrox on protein stains and had excellent results, the Enzyme shampoo is good as far as I can remember and it crystallises similar to an encap but might leave more of a sticky residue , I am not sure, I used quite a bit of 161 before ancapping and got good results


Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Chip Ward on March 01, 2015, 06:55:09 pm
It encapsulates soil residues and can be mixed with traffic lane cleaner, and energizer to boost cleaning. It'll be interesting to try?

Which encap product do you prefer and how many metres would you expect to clean from a gallon concentrate of both products Stuart?

Cheers

Chip
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on March 01, 2015, 07:31:33 pm
Just come back from cleaning a Specsavers store thats quite local to me, I used Releasit DS2 mixed at 32 to 1 and got a cracking result, think I used 600ml of concentrate to clean the whole shop and it has two floors


Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Simon Campbell on March 01, 2015, 07:46:19 pm
Every credit for working til this time on a Sunday Stuart. That is what I would call dedication to your job!  I'm going to start targeting the commercial market this year, just bought some hydrox just to try at first and see how I go.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Craigp on March 01, 2015, 08:23:31 pm
Encapping just isn't that good, don't expect too good results.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Simon Campbell on March 01, 2015, 08:29:00 pm
yeah I must admit I bought a heated rotary system last year thinking it was the dogs but not really that impressed. Still opened minded however but I can only try encapp and see
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on March 01, 2015, 08:40:10 pm
There is a massive difference between bonnet cleaning and ecap cleaning with a pad ! Believe me I've used bonnets for nearly twenty years but after using pads I would never go back to bonnets



Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Simon Campbell on March 01, 2015, 08:45:43 pm
Yeah I've been reading about the pads. Gunna try the White pad to start. Totally unintentional but I am doing some volunteering at a local hospice one day a month and basically I think I am cleaning all the carpets and Chairs so a really good chance to hone these skills.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: *Hector* on March 02, 2015, 08:26:35 am
There is a massive difference between bonnet cleaning and ecap cleaning with a pad ! Believe me I've used bonnets for nearly twenty years but after using pads I would never go back to bonnets



Stuart
Have you not tried going over it with a bonnet after the encap scrub with a pad?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on March 02, 2015, 08:40:40 am
Hector

why double up on the work mate if it already looks good ? And if the rest is just vacumed up a few days later who cares ?




Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: stuart_clark on March 02, 2015, 08:46:24 am
Hector

a few months ago I cleaned a stretch of carpet at middlesbrough Specsavers, then a couple of days went back and vacumed the area! I must of filled a third of a bag on my sebo dart, I boneted over that area again and there was very little transfer




Stuart
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Jamie Pearson on March 02, 2015, 11:41:39 am
Chemspec have now discontinued Enzyme Carpet Shampoo :(
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: *Hector* on March 02, 2015, 11:47:40 am
Hector

why double up on the work mate if it already looks good ? And if the rest is just vacumed up a few days later who cares ?




Stuart

That's fair enough Stu..... on commercials.. I used to do it on domestics though, as you can never rely on the customer to do a good job with the vacuum..... It also helped with the drying.. I never had a complaint from a domestic LM/encap clean...  ;D
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: David Ware on March 02, 2015, 12:32:44 pm
There is a massive difference between bonnet cleaning and ecap cleaning with a pad ! Believe me I've used bonnets for nearly twenty years but after using pads I would never go back to bonnets



Stuart
Have you not tried going over it with a bonnet after the encap scrub with a pad?

+1. After encapping with a pad we use a bonnet afterwards most of the time with the way we work. Personally If you can extract as much soil as possible before leaving the better.
David
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: JandS on March 02, 2015, 12:46:42 pm
I've always sprayed down the encap and rotary brushed the stuff in...is it more beneficial using the pad??
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: *Hector* on March 02, 2015, 01:24:36 pm
try using a tan pad John...

What brush do you use on the rotary? if it is the shampoo brush, you will get much better agitation with a pad....
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Chip Ward on March 02, 2015, 02:08:31 pm
Chemspec have now discontinued Enzyme Carpet Shampoo :(

The swines! 😜 Just as I thought I'd had a good idea!😞
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Jamie Pearson on March 02, 2015, 02:10:05 pm
Think along the lines of washing dishes:

Shampoo brush = dish brush
Dish cloth = bonnet
Pot Scourer = Agitation pad

The chemistry will take care of the soil. All you need to do is get it off the fibre.

A good quality encapsulation product will allow the increased aggression as it has agents that lubricate.


Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Jamie Pearson on March 02, 2015, 02:28:04 pm
Chemspec have now discontinued Enzyme Carpet Shampoo :(

The swines! 😜 Just as I thought I'd had a good idea!😞

Its fairly recent. You could always use Prekleen or Enzall to boost Formula 161 to get the same type of product and use.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: David Ware on March 02, 2015, 02:54:32 pm
Think along the lines of washing dishes:

Shampoo brush = dish brush
Dish cloth = bonnet
Pot Scourer = Agitation pad

The chemistry will take care of the soil. All you need to do is get it off the fibre.

A good quality encapsulation product will allow the increased aggression as it has agents that lubricate.

Have to ask the wife about dish washing, cant get near the sink :)
David

Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Chip Ward on March 02, 2015, 03:45:20 pm
I may experiment with Enzall and F161.

Prekleen...I've never been impressed with it.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Jamie Pearson on March 02, 2015, 04:57:52 pm
I suggested that as its lower in alkalinity than enzall. Also it doesnt inhibit foaming of the 161 as much as enzall.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Chip Ward on March 02, 2015, 05:22:07 pm
Hi Jamie,

What about Hydrox as an option instead as I have coffee stains to deal with as well?

Regards

Chip
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: JandS on March 02, 2015, 06:16:32 pm
Is the tan one the 17inch queen bonnet on Jamie's site??
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: *Hector* on March 02, 2015, 06:22:47 pm
These are the sort that I was on about John

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Machines4hire-PACK-OF-5-FLOOR-BUFFING-PADS-6-COLOURS-15-GREAT-PRICES-/290933215800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=590136505721&hash=item43bcf89238

in whatever size + 2 inches that your drive plate is..
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: JandS on March 02, 2015, 06:50:08 pm
Cheers Hector...thought these where just for hard floors but obviously they must be ok for low profile.
Are they ok for encapping normal domestic carpet?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: *Hector* on March 02, 2015, 07:10:08 pm
Yes mate... I used to use the tan ones or the white ones dependent on the carpet being cleaned.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Jamie Pearson on March 04, 2015, 09:11:19 am
Hi Jamie,

What about Hydrox as an option instead as I have coffee stains to deal with as well?

Regards

Chip

Yes. You could either clean everywhere with it or just pre-spot the coffee and drinks then use DS2 for better economy.
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: JandS on March 04, 2015, 09:42:22 am
Do the pads wash ok....I used a white one yesterday and it's now full of bits?
Title: Re: Insecure with encapping
Post by: Jamie Pearson on March 04, 2015, 09:59:33 am
Jet wash em.