Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gwrightson on February 19, 2015, 12:26:34 pm
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I have a feeling I may have a claim against me coming my way,
Let me try to explain the situation, I was just finishing a job yesterday and reeling up my vac hose onto reel which is placed at rear of van, the van was reversed into a shared drive so the pipes where behind the van , as I was packing up the lady from next door came sprinting up the drive from the road past my van and tripped over a pipe, she had been out running ,dressed in running gear and I have got to admit she did go flying , I immediately asked her if she was ok, "yes I,m fine and got up rubbed herself down and went into her house, after asking her again if she was ok.
This morning I have a call from her husband who informs me she has torn her track suit bottoms and had bruised knee,s and has appointment at her doctors this afternoon, his wife had taken photo,s of pipe that comes from back of van.
After a couple of minutes discussing the situation, him saying she had to squeeze past the van and tripped, when clearly she was running past ,head down he said he would keep me informed of the situation.
So would you inform your insurance company straight away ? or wait to see what develops .
geoff
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The no win no fee sharks would be all over this one, its a shame you did not have the presence of mind at the time to take a few pictures of the lay out around your van.
Trouble is the onus is then on you to prove your innocence, it will probably come to nothing and probably no harm in putting your insurance on notice although there is nothing they can do until contacted.
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Don't, wait to see what materialises. Least they know the better.
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on this subject i don't have a hose ramp but i do put out trip hazard cones clearly at side of hoses. Is having cones enough to warn people and if someone was to trip would i be liable if cones were in clear view ?
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I do have a red and white warning strips of upvc and warning stands , which I would normally lay out if I thought any possibility of a hazard, I di not on this occasion have them out for the simple reason I was on a drive, albeit a shared drive, a lesson learnt for the future.
John, are you saying the least they know the better in regards to customers or in reference to my insurance? until some thing materialises .
geoff
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Wait and see what develops. I once informed my insurance company in advance of a 'possible' claim, which i didn't see as being my fault. They disagreed and paid out quickly, costing me the excess. It later transpired that it was a faulty suite fabric - all too late.
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Insurance companies are not there to help you, they are basically bookies who take a risk with you. As Dave has said sometimes they will just pay to get it off their books. Don't contact them unless its absolutely necessary.
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its a difficult one to judge, i always sign up when the hoses are coming over walkways - the lack of signage helps their case
when did she take photo's? was it from their window or did you see them come out and do it? if she has gone to the doctors to get it documanted, took photos and has her trousers as evidence it all sounds like they have sniffed a claim is due and they will be taking it further. Its crap and we are all at risk every day.
there is a lot of info here - http://www.hse.gov.uk/cleaning/topics/slips.htm
if you have less than 5 employees you dont need to write risk assesments down but the wording they use is 'take reasonable precautions' - lack of signs may be the downfall
when i use to use the dry fusion system i always worried about the hot plate. I always warned customers to keep away as you know you get those who watch everything you do and follow you round getting in the way and putting themselves at risk but in turn putting us at risk for them. I had a woman who didnt listen and walked straight into a room when i had just put the machine on its back and she brushed up the plate - she soon moved but it did catch her. Because of the warnings i had given her she actually apologised to me for being where she shouldnt but if she was another person, they could well of tried to claim
i hope it comes to nothing but i guess they are taking advice
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So she returns from her run there's a carpet cleaning van on the drive, rather than stop running and proceed with caution, she continues to run behind the van and trips.
Its her own fault. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.
I would not inform the insurance company at this early stage. I don't think she has a leg to stand on.
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Alby,
I am tending to agree with you , on the point you make.
I always , with out fail inform the customers and any other people to be aware of hoses, in fact I might even voice record the initial conversation re. aware of hoses, whether this is legal, I don't know. !!
I will wait and see.
geoff
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I don't think she has a leg to stand on.
;D
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Ever watched people running, headphones on, probably bottle of water in hand, in a world of their own
Then last 10 yards looking at their watch finger on the button ready to stop the stopwatch.
I bet she was looking at her watch.
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Don't think she has any claim. Its not all one sided and people are expected to take care. I think any court would be of the opinion that if you saw a tradesmans van on the drive you would have to expect there may be tools, materials etc lying about and to take extra care.
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Annoys the hell out of me this culture. Poor lady tore her tracksuit and bruised her knee, bloody get a grip stupid people.
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If she was well enough to go take pics then wasn't that badly hurt, at best replace her running pants as a gesture of good will and admit nothing. Sounds like they are having this years summer hols on you, if they can.
John
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at best replace her running pants as a gesture of good will and admit nothing.
John
I wouldn't do that, could be thin end of the wedge and later be taken as admission of guilt. I would, however, inform the ins. Co. , by email, spreading it on thick that you don't believe there's any merit in their potential claim and stressing that they shouldn't take any decision without referring back to you. If it did turn into a claim it's the sort that you really need them on- side for.
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If you deal with a broker you could give them a call also FSB legal if you are a member
If you run hoses from back door I would put warning signs on the doors also a A frame type sign across driveway when you are parked
As for risk assessments even if you only work yourself it is advisable to have them in place as the legal responsibility is on you and without them you could have no defence
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Max, having dealt with insurance companies for over 20 years my advice is to keep them at arms length unless absolutely unavoidable. They have one criteria and that is the financial impact of the claim. Regardless of your instructions they will proceed the way they want to, often settling the claim as the easiest option.
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So she returns from her run there's a carpet cleaning van on the drive, rather than stop running and proceed with caution, she continues to run behind the van and trips.
Its her own fault. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.
I would not inform the insurance company at this early stage. I don't think she has a leg to stand on.
+1.
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I recall having this once in the past many years ago and I think it was the FSB I contacted, and I think the upshot of it was, that as the van was signwritten as a carpet cleaner and the hoses were of bright enough colour to be clearly visible then it was obvious enough to be a trip hazard.
They didnt bother claiming after that,
I always carry signs now though ;D
The fsb are a good source of information for this sort of thing !
Steve
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I would sue them for damages to your hose and the stress caused by the worry of it all.
Listen to john's advice
Despite you paying the premiums the insurance company work for themselves.
peter
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Since when do you need to go to the doctors for a bruised knee !?
That's just to embellish the story. Gits.
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The doctor is there to tell them it's more than a bruise as a bruise is worth nothing on a claim, it will be a hematoma of tissue!!!
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Geoff,
I feel for you. Hope they don’t go to a CMC - Claims Management Company AKA Ambulance chasers.
I am currently fighting one off at the moment, despite us being correct in our health and safety method during the incident. They will not stop persuing and practice all types of threatening and psychological games, one of which is sending mail to you so it lands on your doormat on a Friday or Saturday in attempt to disturb your weekend.
Usually the claimant (the person who had the accident) initially seeks advise with a recognized ambulance chaser, the guys that have adverts on TV and radios.
These organizations then gather all the claims together and auction them off on a nationwide system to any scummy outfit that is willing to pay the highest bid and take the case on.
The very fact that that an outfit has paid money to tackle you means they are going to be like a dog with a bone - they could pin a sex charge on a goldfish if they wanted to.
The best advice I could give to any trade is..... Never trust that the general public has common sense, if a hose is clearly visible, imagine it as invisible. Imagine that every person that comes into the vicinity of your workplace or working area is looking for breaches in your health and safety in a hope of suing you, causing you misery and getting loads of money. The second you think 'Oh it will be ok' is the second someone slips, trips, hang, looses a head, electrocutes, burns or blows up and it then becomes your fault as you sit in doc looking up at sobbing relatives.
Always think to yourself 'I won’t let the numptys get me as you sign your areas correctly to the max - make people comment on how over the top your health and safety is and how the world has gone mad.
It’s a chore and time consuming but we are now a sue culture the same as the USA.
Pete
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Good post Pete.
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Alby,
I am tending to agree with you , on the point you make.
I always , with out fail inform the customers and any other people to be aware of hoses, in fact I might even voice record the initial conversation re. aware of hoses, whether this is legal, I don't know. !!
I will wait and see.
geoff
Recording isn't admissible, unless the other party is asked for consent to being recorded, which is why call centres always state that the call is being recorded if that is the case (although stating isn't asking permission, so it would be interesting to see that challenged in a legal setting).
One thing you may have in your favour if common sense doesn't prevail is the driveway, when you say it's shared it could depend on how it's marked on their deeds, say for example the house you were at was on the left as you look up the driveway, and the van was parked in the middle, and she lives on the right, why did she have to go onto neighbouring property to access her house, when she could have taken the logical route to the right, document anything odd about it, so that should you need to contact your insurers it's there infront of you.
I hate people who try to make something out of nothing for financial gain, so what, she fell over and bruised her knees, no doubt she'll have a sick note by now saying she can't work for a couple of weeks because of the pain to her joints so she's suffered "financial loss", if you know her full name it wouldn't hurt to take a look at her facebook and see what she's upto over the next week or so, any mention, or pictures of physical activity, trips out etc, get a screen shot and keep it safe, so if she plays the old "stuck in doors, feet up" routine then says "lovely day out at the park/wherever" it shows inconsistancies in her story.
A mate of mine recently sledged a car up the backside, he was following it, got distracted and the car in front braked hard, fair play, it was his fault, he asked the bloke driving if he was okay, did the paperwork exchange etc etc, then a few days later the letter comes through the door, the bloke was claiming whiplash (okay, that takes a few days to show usually), but so was his girlfriend, who was waiting for him to pick her up, and had been stood 100 metres away on the pavement when the accident happened.
After telling the insurance what happened, and that she wasn't in the car, she still got paid out, the barstewards don't like to argue, they just want rid as cheaply as possible.
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i find most people are complete idiots, i always put my ramp down but instead of walking over the ramp they insist in taking a side step and then trip on the hose with an immediate angry look at me, and some mumbling, i always say to them, with a smile, what do you think the ramp is there for? they usually scurry away again chunnering to themselves.......pillocks
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this thread remind me that a hose ramp was on my shopping list, just purchased one for 120 euros, think the same like hydramaster sells.
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An update,
As yet not heard any thing :) But I guess it does not mean to say she isn't taking it any further. no doubt these claim agents or who ever they are need to get all the paper work etc. done first.
geoff
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An update,
As yet not heard any thing :) But I guess it does not mean to say she isn't taking it any further. no doubt these claim agents or who ever they are need to get all the paper work etc. done first.
geoff
not only paper work, there will be massages, rehabilitation and then after a lot of efort takken, a lot of proof, they will start with a claim
just like car accident whiplash fraud
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Hey Radek,where did you buy the ramp?
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pittman.ie
in uk even cheaper but for us incl delivery is better to order from pittman.
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Radek
Can you put up a link cant see anything on there site that looks useful
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Radek
Can you put up a link cant see anything on there site that looks useful
for ireland http://www.pittman.ie/p/hr2-hose-cable-protection-ramp-main-section/p-756336
uk
http://www.pittmantraffic.co.uk/p/hr2-hose-cable-protection-ramp-main-section/p-756336
http://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/barriers-c1157/cable-hose-protection-trench-covers-c1096/cable-hose-protection-ramp-large-express-delivery-p1803
and more, type "safety hose ramps uk" in google grafica and find by the picture, is faster this way.
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Lets know when you get it might be a struggle to get 2 inch hose through
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Lets know when you get it might be a struggle to get 2 inch hose through
should be ok even for 2.5 inch, otherwise hydramaster would not sell it
it has 2x 68mm gap, so even for dual operator ok
plus you can drive heavy vehicle over it when you could not do it with prochem one , i think.
should get it tomorrow as it is already in my city what i can see from tracking
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Just out of interest what would happen if you just refused to cooperate with any claim that arose?
You just replied to any correspondence that this claim is totally fraudulent you are not willing to accept any involment in it.
Or you just ignore any contact from them
Or.... You just told them straight that you would rather cease trading and start up a different company than pay them a penny. They can chase you all they want, they will just be wasting their money....you will pay them nothing
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mike if he is a sole trader then you may not avoid the claim as court will take your assets
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Mike,
The more I think about it , the more I am determined to dispute it.
having said that , it would probably be easier to hand to my insurance company
Think I might just do some covert filming of her , I am pretty sure she will be out running every day .
Not one these ladies you see just going for a jog, more a determined serious runner looking to make the british squad :D
Geoff
geoff
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many years ago I was involved in a car crash, turning right and this idiot ploughed into the back of me, hitting me with such force I ended up on top of a wall 20 yards away, I was unhurt, the other driver drove off despite witnesses trying to stop him.
Someone followed him, turned out he was a bouncer in a pub not far away, Police went to the bar but could not find him or the car. but got his name and address. A few days later i went to the pub in question looking for him to get his insurance details, which he gave me along side a couple of threats of violence. I don't know why i did it but i had a camera in my car and took a couple of photos of him and his motley crew giving me hand jesters.
His details I passed onto my insurance company.
Anyway as I said I was unhurt but the car was a right off. Eventually got paid out. thought the matter was closed.
A few months later went to renew my insurance and the premium was sky high, when i calmed down they explained it was because i lost my no claims bonus, because he was claiming off me saying the accident was my fault, and based on his claim they were going to pay out. because it was cheaper than going to court.
i was on the phone to head office every day pleading with someone to listen, eventually i said well if you are just going to pay out because its cheaper then you should give me back my no claims.
Because of my persistence, they decided to defend the claim. on the court papers he was claiming neck and back injuries loss of earnings and he was a karate expert and could not compete. Total cost of the claim £5,000
Anyway gets to court he was there and all my witnesses turned up, and just before we went into the court room i handed a photo of him and his motley crew giving me hand jesters to the insurance company barrister.
on the strength of that photo which showed he was at work a few days after the crash, and not bed bound in pain and could not work, his barrister refused to take the case into court, so the case was dropped there and then. But it should never have got that far.
You would think the insurance company would of been grateful, but no they weren't it took another 12 months to get my bonus back and refund, and not so much as a thank you for saving them £5000 plus whatever legal cost would of been added.
So i implore everyone if there's an accident whether someone has tripped or car accident TAKE PICS, we all have cameras now on our phones so use them.
Apologies for this being long winded.
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If you are going to film do it now as she may only put in a claim for a couple of weeks of work
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Just out of interest what would happen if you just refused to cooperate with any claim that arose?
You just replied to any correspondence that this claim is totally fraudulent you are not willing to accept any involment in it.
Or you just ignore any contact from them
Or.... You just told them straight that you would rather cease trading and start up a different company than pay them a penny. They can chase you all they want, they will just be wasting their money....you will pay them nothing
Although most people think of Tax Implications when forming a Limited Company as we do carry vast amount of stock, and I am led to believe its hard to get equipment in Companies name? Perhaps the risks are greater than we realise. If this Lady is a top runner and her leg is shot the costs could be thousands
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Lol Ian,
she is not a top runner, sorry maybe I implied that, In meant in jest , she is a wanna be top runner,the sort who has all the bright colours, ear phones pedometer watch ect ect.
Geoff
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She lives next door to me..... ::)roll
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Lets know when you get it might be a struggle to get 2 inch hose through
should be ok even for 2.5 inch, otherwise hydramaster would not sell it
it has 2x 68mm gap, so even for dual operator ok
plus you can drive heavy vehicle over it when you could not do it with prochem one , i think.
should get it tomorrow as it is already in my city what i can see from tracking
yep, you was right
here is a 2inch hose in first channel - cover lifted too much - not acceptable
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/fxus91.jpg)
here in the third channel - lifted a bit but acceptable - about 5 mm - with a bit of DIY it could be closed but no needed I say
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/12223nn.jpg)
anyway happy with the purchase as its a good value and will do the job
If this is the same one as hydramaster sells I am suprised they sell it if it can not fit 2inch hose properly and then what about 2.5inch which many use with their truckmounts
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I have never run truckmounts but it occurs to me that could you not fit 'arm' that could swing out from the van on which the the solution and waste hose would sit, comfortably over head height, allowing people to walk underneath.
Just seems obvious and would remove and good proportion of the risk when working at kerb side or at the front of a property.
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Yep there are people doing that.