Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Positivity on February 16, 2015, 07:32:28 am

Title: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Positivity on February 16, 2015, 07:32:28 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2954630/Labour-demands-families-receipts-cash-hand-job-s-just-10-trim-hedge.html
No more cash jobs - sorry all windies ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: andyM on February 16, 2015, 08:01:55 am
Yes im sure Balls insists on receipts for everything..... so he can claim it back on MP's expenses!  :-X
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Ian101 on February 16, 2015, 08:03:03 am
read article and surprised that we weren't mentioned .... them hedge cutters dodgy ... or am I getting mixed up with hedge funds that dodge paying taxes

without getting all political if that's all they can think to worry about not sure I could even trust them to run my post office savings book let alone the country  :(
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Tom White on February 16, 2015, 08:23:39 am
So I give a receipt - which I do for all my commercial work - and how's that going to stop anyone from fiddling their accounts?
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Positivity on February 16, 2015, 09:38:47 am
read article and surprised that we weren't mentioned .... them hedge cutters dodgy ... or am I getting mixed up with hedge funds that dodge paying taxes

without getting all political if that's all they can think to worry about not sure I could even trust them to run my post office savings book let alone the country  :(

Homeowners have a duty to demand receipts for the smallest cash job carried out by gardeners, cleaners and handymen, Ed Balls said yesterday.

Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Pete Thompson on February 16, 2015, 09:58:55 am
what a complete idiot

"Homeowners have a duty to demand receipts for the smallest cash job carried out by gardeners, cleaners and handymen, Ed Balls said yesterday."

So home owners now have the responsibility to become the tax police?  What my gardener does with the money I pay him, whether cash or not, is his business.  It's up to him to sort his tax out, not me.

And what use is a receipt?  What will householders do with it?  Will they send it to HMRC?  Will they follow us home and watch us do our books to make sure we are declaring all our income?  A receipt is no help at all.

Also, call me crazy, but isn't it the multi-millionaires and global corporations like Google, Starbucks, Amazon et al that are avoiding literally billions in tax, rather than window cleaners and gardeners?  I guess the rich guys and the big companies are too much like hard work - and probably party donors too - so we'll go after the little guy just trying to earn an honest living.

God save us from moronic labour party loonies.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Tom White on February 16, 2015, 10:02:47 am
Personally, I'd love all my customers to pay me by bank transfer, rather than cash or cheque.  I've a few that pay me that way and by the time I've arrived home, the money is in our account.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Spruce on February 16, 2015, 10:12:52 am
Yes im sure Balls insists on receipts for everything..... so he can claim it back on MP's expenses!  :-X

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Spruce on February 16, 2015, 10:34:22 am
So I give a receipt - which I do for all my commercial work - and how's that going to stop anyone from fiddling their accounts?

Tosh, when I first started cleaning I booked an appointment with HMRC to ensure I did what was required properly.

One of the things the lady who I was blessed to see clearly told me that I needed to keep a list of each of my customers, their names, addresses and telephone numbers. From a sales perspective I agreed with this as standard practice, but asked her why.
She told me so that they could ask for the list at any time and check with my customers so they could see if I was working and not declaring the income for tax purposes. ;D

A was ataken back for a moment before replying by asking which list I was to give them. I very quickly realised that that reply wasn't one of my finest moments so quickly shutup. I'm glad she looked confused with my answer. I expected a tax investigation very quickly after that.
It was probably why I bought George within a short period of time after we started. We log everything, one off cleans, tips, etc ( although I don't know what to do about those occassional bottles of wine we get given at Christmas time.) I even went so far as keeping a daily weather report on an excel spreadsheet to justify the non working days.

I also primed a lot of my customers that I will always be able to tell them dates of cleans and prices charged if they ever get asked by the Receiver for that info.

We bought a round of a fellow cleaner my son knew - he had done it for years but never knew many of his customer's names. So we made a point of ensuring that the paperwork was updated with that info.

We clean a house for a couple of women and they insist on a receipt. Its because they split household expenses and this helps them keep it right for their monthly expenses 'claims.'
  
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: rosskesava on February 16, 2015, 10:47:00 am
There's no law that says a tradesman has to even give a receipt or that the customer has to even keep a record or anything when paying for services.

All I have to keep is a record of work done and income.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Pete Thompson on February 16, 2015, 10:56:40 am
Quote
She told me so that they could ask for the list at any time and check with my customers so they could see if I was working and not declaring the income for tax purposes.

So there would be nothing to stop you maintaining an 'official' list of customers with say, half of them (those that pay in cash perhaps) and an 'unofficial' list with all of them.

And if HMRC ask, you supply them with the official list.

As they have nothing to check it against, what use is it?

You could pocket the cash, undeclared, from those not on the official list and they would have no way of finding out.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do (nor would I recommend it) I'm just pointing out how utterly pointless her instruction was.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: davids3511 on February 16, 2015, 11:03:27 am
Quote
She told me so that they could ask for the list at any time and check with my customers so they could see if I was working and not declaring the income for tax purposes.

So there would be nothing to stop you maintaining an 'official' list of customers with say, half of them (those that pay in cash perhaps) and an 'unofficial' list with all of them.

And if HMRC ask, you supply them with the official list.

As they have nothing to check it against, what use is it?

You could pocket the cash, undeclared, from those not on the official list and they would have no way of finding out.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do (nor would I recommend it) I'm just pointing out how utterly pointless her instruction was.
That's called keeping two sets of books and can get very complicated. One slipup and your done for evasion. Used to work in accounts years ago, the tax inspectors were very good and knew exactly what to look for.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: davids3511 on February 16, 2015, 11:05:20 am
I have to say Ed's a total hypocrite, he and his wife were both claiming for a house each to the tune of 48k total per year.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Walter Mitty on February 16, 2015, 12:31:32 pm
I've only ever asked for a receipt if it's something I can claim tax relief on or if I need some sort of guarantee for the work.  Things like repairs to my flat when I was renting it out - particulary servicing of the heating by a CORGI registered tradesperson as I would need to cover my back if a safety issue developed.
I give a receipt (as an invoice) to any commercial jobs and I will give a receipt for payment to any residential customers who request it.
All this would do, if it became law, would be to weigh down small businesses with yet more paperwork.  As usual, legitimate traders would suffer and fly by nights would continue to get away with everything.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: advanced on February 16, 2015, 02:43:00 pm
That's why you should not vote for those idiots
double standards  that will ruin this country
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Walter Mitty on February 16, 2015, 04:57:09 pm
An Italian guy once told me that in Italy, it was a legal requirement to supply a receipt for any money paid.  How closely it was adhered to is another matter.  Personally, I wouldn't want to do that.  It's not about evasion - it's about the paperwork hassle and nightmare.  I would have to increase my costs a bit to recover the costs of buying duplicate books and time taken to write them out.  It could cost 20 minutes per day plus the stationery - depending how much detail needs to be written.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: no way Jose on February 16, 2015, 07:25:18 pm
well. What would they do then if let's say 90% of your customers only ever paid you cash in hand ?
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Perfect Windows on February 16, 2015, 07:37:53 pm
I'm all for it.  People should pay tax.

Tax pays for the roads you drive along to get to your customers.  It pays for the ambulance that will collect you if you fall and hurt yourself.  It pays for help if you're out of work.  It pays for many of the things that make this a worthwhile country to live in.

If you take cash in hand for a job and don't declare it, you have no right to complain when either public services fail or when someone earning more than you avoids their tax.

Anyone asks me for a receipt gets one and I sleep well at night knowing that if the tax man comes a-knocking, I'll have no problems.

Vin
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: PoleKing on February 16, 2015, 07:57:04 pm
I'm all for it.  People should pay tax.

Tax pays for the roads you drive along to get to your customers.  It pays for the ambulance that will collect you if you fall and hurt yourself.  It pays for help if you're out of work.  It pays for many of the things that make this a worthwhile country to live in.

If you take cash in hand for a job and don't declare it, you have no right to complain when either public services fail or when someone earning more than you avoids their tax.

Anyone asks me for a receipt gets one and I sleep well at night knowing that if the tax man comes a-knocking, I'll have no problems.

Vin

+1 to a point. I still don't trust 'er maj when her lads come a knocking.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: NBwcs on February 16, 2015, 08:04:05 pm
"well. What would they do then if let's say 90% of your customers only ever paid you cash in hand ?"

Vast majority of the mrs hairdressing clients pay cash, no different from us really.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: PoleKing on February 16, 2015, 08:06:54 pm
This is why i like GoCardLess.
A record of every payment ever made.
I if could get all my customers on it i'd be a happy man.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: EandM on February 17, 2015, 03:09:09 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956365/I-ve-cleaned-Ed-Balls-s-windows-17-years-s-never-asked-receipt-Shadow-Chancellor-accused-total-hypocrisy-following-claims.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Roberto Smith on February 17, 2015, 06:38:56 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956365/I-ve-cleaned-Ed-Balls-s-windows-17-years-s-never-asked-receipt-Shadow-Chancellor-accused-total-hypocrisy-following-claims.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Guess he's losing a 17 year customer  ;D More than made up for with nation wide publicity.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: paulben on February 17, 2015, 06:55:22 am
look on the bright side if everyone asked for receipt it might get rid of the dole boy's but I wouldn't want everyone know where I live its like saying my house is empty every day 8 til 2 .
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Positivity on February 17, 2015, 07:47:59 am
Brilliant talk about Foot in Mouth and those who live in glass houses!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Ronnie Bryce on February 17, 2015, 08:46:02 am
It's been confirmed by the firm that he always pays by cheque in the post. That is a receipt.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Spruce on February 17, 2015, 10:29:46 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956365/I-ve-cleaned-Ed-Balls-s-windows-17-years-s-never-asked-receipt-Shadow-Chancellor-accused-total-hypocrisy-following-claims.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Guess he's losing a 17 year customer  ;D More than made up for with nation wide publicity.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Pete Thompson on February 17, 2015, 10:44:39 am
It's been confirmed by the firm that he always pays by cheque in the post. That is a receipt.

A cheque is not a receipt.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Ronnie Bryce on February 17, 2015, 01:34:13 pm
It's been confirmed by the firm that he always pays by cheque in the post. That is a receipt.

A cheque is not a receipt.


http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/acts/cheques-act

No need to thank me.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Pete Thompson on February 17, 2015, 02:12:33 pm
Quote
No need to thank me.

Good because no thanks are due.

A cheque, by definition, is:
"An order to a bank to pay a stated sum from the drawer’s account, written on a specially printed form"
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cheque

A receipt, by definition, is:
"A written or printed statement acknowledging that something has been paid for or that goods have been received."
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/receipt

I say again.  A cheque is not a receipt.

You might say (and I think that is what you were trying to get at with that link) that a cheque may, in some circumstances provide a similar function as a receipt, and that's all well and good. 

But it does not make a cheque a receipt, because it isn't.

No need to thank me either.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Perfect Windows on February 17, 2015, 02:38:04 pm
My Lords, in general, the recipient of a payment is under no obligation to give a receipt if none is demanded, but he must give a stamped receipt for a payment of £2 or more if the payer asks for it. This has always been the position and nothing in the Cheques Act has altered it. But that Act contains a provision to the effect that an unendorsed cheque which appears to have been paid by the banker on whom it is drawn is evidence of the receipt of the sum payable. This, again, has always been the position so far as endorsed cheques are concerned, but the Act now makes it clear that the same thing applies to unendorsed cheques. As your Lordships are aware, the Cheques Act was based on the Report of the Mocatta Committee, and that Report drew attention to the fact that a paid endorsed cheque is as good evidence of payment as is a simple receipt.

From http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1957/dec/10/cheques-act-and-receipts#S5LV0206P0_19571210_HOL_5

Vin
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Tom White on February 17, 2015, 03:33:41 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956365/I-ve-cleaned-Ed-Balls-s-windows-17-years-s-never-asked-receipt-Shadow-Chancellor-accused-total-hypocrisy-following-claims.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Class!

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1424187211_Tosh1.jpg)

Good find!!!
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Pete Thompson on February 17, 2015, 04:03:41 pm
This is from your own quote:
Quote
a paid endorsed cheque is as good evidence of payment as is a simple receipt.

You said that a cheque IS a receipt.

I said, it is not a receipt, but may in some circumstances, provide a similar function as a receipt.

For example it may be used 'as good evidence of payment' but that still does not mean that a cheque IS a receipt.

Which one of our statements is backed up by that quote from the Lords debate? Mine or yours?
Note the phrase in the quote "as good as".  Not "IS"
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Perfect Windows on February 17, 2015, 05:27:30 pm
This is from your own quote:
Quote
a paid endorsed cheque is as good evidence of payment as is a simple receipt.

You said that a cheque IS a receipt.

I said, it is not a receipt, but may in some circumstances, provide a similar function as a receipt.

For example it may be used 'as good evidence of payment' but that still does not mean that a cheque IS a receipt.

Which one of our statements is backed up by that quote from the Lords debate? Mine or yours?
Note the phrase in the quote "as good as".  Not "IS"


FFS!

You're correct.  Absolutely.  Totally.  Completely.

Vin
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Soupy on February 17, 2015, 05:31:34 pm
A cheque is a cheque and a receipt is a receipt. It's besides the point anyway, Ed Balls said you should get a receipt for cash payments. A cheque isn't a cash payment.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Pete Thompson on February 17, 2015, 05:46:37 pm
Quote
FFS!

You're correct.  Absolutely.  Totally.  Completely.

Vin

Today is a historic day.

Hundreds thought it was impossible.
Thousands considered it improbable
Millions discounted it as incredible.

And yet the evidence is here before us...

Today I have won an argument on the internet.

I still feel strangely empty though.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: tlwcs on February 17, 2015, 05:58:51 pm
Quote
FFS!

You're correct.  Absolutely.  Totally.  Completely.

Vin

Today is a historic day.

Hundreds thought it was impossible.
Thousands considered it improbable
Millions discounted it as incredible.

And yet the evidence is here before us...

Today I have won an argument on the internet.

I still feel strangely empty though.

No you didn't
Vin let you win
 ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: Lakes and Pennine on February 17, 2015, 06:54:17 pm
so mr balls is flouting the working at heights regulstions as well
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: PoleKing on February 17, 2015, 06:59:29 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956365/I-ve-cleaned-Ed-Balls-s-windows-17-years-s-never-asked-receipt-Shadow-Chancellor-accused-total-hypocrisy-following-claims.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Class!

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1424187211_Tosh1.jpg)

Good find!!!

At least Mr Balls appears to be using a 'care in the community' window cleaner.
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: hasti on February 17, 2015, 07:40:37 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956365/I-ve-cleaned-Ed-Balls-s-windows-17-years-s-never-asked-receipt-Shadow-Chancellor-accused-total-hypocrisy-following-claims.html

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Guess he's losing a 17 year customer  ;D More than made up for with nation wide publicity.

uuuuuuhhhhh but wait a minuet  would you believe a window cleaner of Edy boy  ;D ;D ;D ;D
This Edy boy is full of Sugar, never liked his look, he looks a bit shifty to me  ;D
Title: Re: Ed's out to get us!!
Post by: matthewprice on February 17, 2015, 09:59:43 pm
Cards I leave to say windows were cleaned.all have an invoice/receipt template on the back so very easy to provide a receipt.must say don't get asked very often from domestic customer, only if they pay for a neighbor.what would they do with them unless self-employed