Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on February 11, 2015, 08:26:30 am
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???
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Really? It's not even worthy of discussion. ::)roll
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Jakey mate stop behaving like a berk :)
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Jakey mate stop behaving like a berk :)
Just a wind up for s select few ;D
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Nippy sure I really understand, am I missing something or do I need a sugar boost
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Nippy sure I really understand, am I missing something or do I need a sugar boost
Don't worry mate it's a wind up for a select few, ;D
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About three days.....
;D
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About three days.....
;D
Lol, not a chance, getting wfp system doesn't increase the amount of work, you still need to gain the work to make the wfp pay for itself, unless your literally doing £200 or more a day, then maybe 3 days.... ;D
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About three days.....
;D
Lol, not a chance, getting wfp system doesn't increase the amount of work, you still need to gain the work to make the wfp pay for itself, unless your literally doing £200 or more a day, then maybe 3 days.... ;D
what?
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About three days.....
;D
Lol, not a chance, getting wfp system doesn't increase the amount of work, you still need to gain the work to make the wfp pay for itself, unless your literally doing £200 or more a day, then maybe 3 days.... ;D
You seem to think WFP is expensive?
Granted I've probably got a few thousand pound worth of kit in my van, but that doesn't mean you can't do it on the cheap.
A few hundred quid could set you up with a DIY trolley.
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About three days.....
;D
Lol, not a chance, getting wfp system doesn't increase the amount of work, you still need to gain the work to make the wfp pay for itself, unless your literally doing £200 or more a day, then maybe 3 days.... ;D
WFP makes it easier to gain work because you can do more with it.
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About three days.....
;D
Lol, not a chance, getting wfp system doesn't increase the amount of work, you still need to gain the work to make the wfp pay for itself, unless your literally doing £200 or more a day, then maybe 3 days.... ;D
WFP makes it easier to gain work because you can do more with it.
Yes Tom, it usually takes a little more than 3 days though matey!
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Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.
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For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.
+1
In addition to making a significant amount more money in a far easier manner. After grafting for a day on ladder I used to crash out when I got in, thats not happened in years - even with carrying a far heavier wallet ;D
Its win win. I just cannot fathom how people think the additional cost of WFP cannot be covered by the extra work that youre able to do. I must be missing a trick or they must be. Its one or the other. Its black and white. Theres no discussion about it IMO. Those extra costs that WFP have associated with them are covered and exceeded by a long long way.
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Its all in the luck of the draw Matt, I have windows that I can fly through and others that require a bit of
faffing about, get a bigger percentage of these second types on your round and things might look different.
The latter types could more than likely be cleaned quicker using tradition methods but like I say its safety first
for me.
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if you already have a good amount of work investing in wfp will be a smart move esp if your a sole trader.
over 5 years my expenses work out at around £5,000 a year.when i was 100% trad it was more like £2,500 a year.
mines a DIY system though(tank/frame/pumpbox)and expensive hi modulus carbon poles.a cheap,clean second hand van signwritten.lots of work within 6 miles so hardly any money spent on fuel.
you ll work in the rain and most inclement weather,youll be faster after a few months(esp if you have a van mount and 100m microbore)and you ll be able to clean larger,more awkward properties a lot faster than ladders.
of course there is the option to offer other cleaning services as well(f/s/g,conny roofs and solar panels)which all add up to extra income.once your familiar with cleaning these jobs,if you price well you can earn more money on them than regular window cleaning.
your working day will be shorter(actually window cleaning not including "end of the day" jobs like purifying water,charging batteries etc)
you ll enjoy work more(i do anyway than i used to climbing ladders all day!)
you should earn a lot more money over the course of a few years that goes well beyond the expense of wfp once your up to speed.thats what ive found anyway.
ive picked up a lot of good jobs because i use a wfp system rather than ladders.
i should top over 20k extra a year this year than 5 years ago when i was 100% trad so for me its been astounding and a brilliant move although i didnt think so at the time back then.
so is it worth the extra £2,500 a year in expenses compared to trad only?easily! :)
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Dazmond while I agree with what you say above there's no reason why WFP should cost you an extra £2500
a year in expenses unless your comparing a beer money cleaner to a full time WFP cleaner.
If you leave out the vehicle then WFP costs me just over £550 a year and that's with a professionally fitted system.
System fitted with a couple of poles £2500.
Over 10 years....
Two R.O. membranes £500
SLX poles , brushes and fittings £1000
Pre filters, batteries and a replacement pump lets say another £1000.
11 litres of resin will last me over a year and with a new membrane I would get two so lets say £500
That's £5500 over 10 years or £550 a year and two be honest I'm sure it could be done cheaper.
Even with metered water its not going to add a massive difference to your yearly bill.
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If you leave out the vehicle then
??? Why would you leave out the vehicle.
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I was speaking to a window cleaner about 1.5 years ago. He had a van with WFP to us on just Georgian windows and 2 guys out in cars doing trad all day everyday. I said why don't you convert everything to WFP? He said he wouldn't because each guy would be finished by lunchtime. So I said then surely it's worth doing and canvassing for more work and fill their days up, he wouldn't have to pay them any more money, and the expenses would soon be recouped. He went a bit quiet.
You do earn more money using WFP over trad.
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If you leave out the vehicle then
??? Why would you leave out the vehicle.
exactly!why would you leave out your van?mine is specifically just used for work.the 5k a year includes ALL REPAIRS,PARTS,ETC,TAX,MOT,INSURANCE AND THE COST OF BUYING THE VAN(over a 5 year period).
poles,brushes,connectors,resin,water bill,pumps,hose and reels,workwear,detergent,rubbers,cloths,phone/internet,cleaner planner,stationary,ink,leisure batteries,vinyl wrap and signwriting etc,etc
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Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.
i guess he is a millionaire if on proper prices
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Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.
i guess he is a millionaire if on proper prices
Doubt it.
There's a fella on the 'work wanted/offered' section getting a heap of grief for paying his lads £40 a DAY!
He see's nothing wrong in paying ladder monkeys with no skills that as a wage.
I see that as criminal.
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Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.
i guess he is a millionaire if on proper prices
I honestly don't know what he's worth but would guess he's a millionaire as he been going for about 25 years.
As for what he pays his employees well they seem to stick with him so their wages cant be all that bad.
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If you leave out the vehicle then
??? Why would you leave out the vehicle.
exactly!why would you leave out your van?mine is specifically just used for work.the 5k a year includes ALL REPAIRS,PARTS,ETC,TAX,MOT,INSURANCE AND THE COST OF BUYING THE VAN(over a 5 year period).
poles,brushes,connectors,resin,water bill,pumps,hose and reels,workwear,detergent,rubbers,cloths,phone/internet,cleaner planner,stationary,ink,leisure batteries,vinyl wrap and signwriting etc,etc
I didn't include the vehicle because when you stated that WFP was costing you an extra £2500 a year you didn't say
what vehicle you where using when cleaning using traditional methods.
Plus before making statements like this you need to work out what you actually are paying extra by converting to WFP as
a few thing on your list would have still been expenses when you where traditional.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.
I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.
I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.
No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.
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My fuel costs would be close to that figure then more on top again. Usually 5k or above most years. No marketing costs.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.
I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.
I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.
No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.
Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. ;D
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In what way?
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.
I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.
I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.
No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.
Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. ;D
Congratulations on your anniversary btw. Top marks ;)
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i know what seans on about.he means the cost of wfp NOT the rest of your expenses that would you have anyway if you were on the ladders.
my fuel costs are around £700 a year which would be roughly the same if i was trad only.
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My fuel costs are £2500 a year.
When I was trad they were less than half that.
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i know what seans on about.he means the cost of wfp NOT the rest of your expenses that would you have anyway if you were on the ladders.
my fuel costs are around £700 a year which would be roughly the same if i was trad only.
Exactly Dazmond I'm not talking about expenses, I'm talking about the difference in costs when doing this job
using WFP methods compared to using traditional methods.
A young new driver with a claim on his record could be paying three grand a year in insurance alone but that wouldn't
be a cost because he's WFP its a cost because he needs a vehicle no matter what method he chooses to use.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.
I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.
I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.
No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.
Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. ;D
Why not ? look at my list and tell me where my calculations are wrong, if anything they are slightly over the top.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
No they wouldn't as most if not all businesses base their expenses over a 5 to 10 year period as its the only way to get an accurate
figure.
Your could buy a new 4040 membrane this year at £250 but it doesn't mean you will need that expense every year so you
would need to tell the bank what they should cost you if they work for as long as they are intended to work which is about five years.
You might only get one year if your unlucky but you cant know that in advance.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
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If that's the case fair play. It isn't for me though. The difference in my fuel costs alone are double that. How long were you cleaning 100% trad?
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Before you ask why are fuel costs increased its because carrying 650 litres of water costs more than carrying a bucket of water. But mostly because working WFP means you get more done in a day - thus more miles are covered.
I used to do 7,000 miles a year trad now I do 16,000 a year. That amount of works couldnt be done trad.
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If that's the case fair play. It isn't for me though. The difference in my fuel costs alone are double that. How long were you cleaning 100% trad?
What isn't for you ? we both clean using WFP methods I'm just pointing out the difference in costs using both methods,
again I'm not talking about expenses as these will differ in many ways to each and every one of us depending on how you choose to advertise how compact your round is what vehicle you choose to buy and so on.
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That level of expense isn't how it is for me is what I mean.
How long were you working solely trad Sean?
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That level of expense isn't how it is for me is what I mean.
How long were you working solely trad Sean?
I never worked solely trad Matt, I started up as a WFP cleaner but would do about 5% of my work using traditional
methods only if its ground work and it doesn't take to the pole.
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That level of expense isn't how it is for me is what I mean.
How long were you working solely trad Sean?
I never worked solely trad Matt, I started up as a WFP cleaner but would do about 5% of my work using traditional
methods only if its ground work and it doesn't take to the pole.
Oh. ::)roll
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Right, are you saying because I have never worked using traditional methods I cant work out what it would cost
me to clean without the added costs of WFP equipment ?
Will here's how it works, you have all the costs needed to clean using traditional methods then you add on the costs
needed to upgrade to WFP, its not rocket science.
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I wouldn't try to give an opinion on how much it costs to run a pressure washing business. That's all.
For starters I wouldn't know how much work could be done on a daily basis pressure washing. And I put it to you that you don't know how much traditional cleaning you could do daily if you've never done it. Which will directly reflect on your level of costs.
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I wouldn't try to give an opinion on how much it costs to run a pressure washing business. That's all.
For starters I wouldn't know how much work could be done on a daily basis pressure washing. And I put it to you that you don't know how much traditional cleaning you could do daily if you've never done it.
Mate that's nonsense and you know it, all the basic costs a traditional cleaner will have I will have as we are in the same business.
The difference in me and a traditional cleaner is that I don't use a ladder.
Again I have stated in my list what WFP costs me if you think its wrong then point it out, again I'm not talking about all the
expenses involved in cleaning windows just on upgrading to WFP.
I have never mentioned how much cleaning can be done in a day using traditional methods so I don't know why you are pulling
me on that one.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.
I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.
I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.
No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.
Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. ;D
Congratulations on your anniversary btw. Top marks ;)
Cheers. No idea how it happened.
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I bet ;)
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
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I should add that my van is paid for.
I reckon I could get by on £500 a year if I wasn't doing any work.
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Im gonna buy a bamboo cane and start up in this business. I could get one of them brushes from Tescos that comes with a dustpan and brush and cable-tie it to the end of the cane.
Run a Hozelock hose from the custards outside tap. Hey Presto - Bobs your Uncle, Fannies your Aunt.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
How do you deliver your water and equipment to your customers? ;D
Isn't your van a crucial part of your WFP system? ::)roll
Are you relayed to RichyWilts? ;D
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
Yeah but!
£500 a year is only a tenner a week. You cant run a window cleaning business on that.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
How do you deliver your water and equipment to your customers? ;D
Isn't your van a crucial part of your WFP system? ::)roll
Are you relayed to RichyWilts? ;D
The same way I would deliver my ladder to my customers if I was a traditional cleaner, and my van would be a crucial part
of my system even if I was a traditional cleaner as it is as cheap to run a van as a second car.
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
How do you deliver your water and equipment to your customers? ;D
Isn't your van a crucial part of your WFP system? ::)roll
Are you relayed to RichyWilts? ;D
The same way I would deliver my ladder to my customers if I was a traditional cleaner, and my van would be a crucial part
of my system even if I was a traditional cleaner as it is as cheap to run a van as a second car.
A second car costs money though doesn't it? ::)roll
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
How do you deliver your water and equipment to your customers? ;D
Isn't your van a crucial part of your WFP system? ::)roll
Are you relayed to RichyWilts? ;D
The same way I would deliver my ladder to my customers if I was a traditional cleaner, and my van would be a crucial part
of my system even if I was a traditional cleaner as it is as cheap to run a van as a second car.
A second car costs money though doesn't it? ::)roll
Its a post on the difference WFP will cost you compared to using traditional methods not a post on window cleaning expenses. ::)roll
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Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.
If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.
Then you need a new accountant.
Just on transport & equipment my costs year to date are around £7k.
Just this month:
Road tax £225
Fuel £96
MOT £68
Pole hose & brush £45
Carbon filter x 2 £40
O clips £4
That leaves out office overheads, mobile phone etc.
£500 a year. ;D
How many times does somebody have to say...£500 are my WFP costs not my full business costs. ::)roll
How do you deliver your water and equipment to your customers? ;D
Isn't your van a crucial part of your WFP system? ::)roll
Are you relayed to RichyWilts? ;D
The same way I would deliver my ladder to my customers if I was a traditional cleaner, and my van would be a crucial part
of my system even if I was a traditional cleaner as it is as cheap to run a van as a second car.
A second car costs money though doesn't it? ::)roll
Its a post on the difference WFP will cost you compared to using traditional methods not a post on window cleaning expenses. ::)roll
Exactly! You don't need a van for trad. And you don't need a second car. Therefore WFP is not possible on £500 a year unless you have no customers.
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Seriously mate you really are in a world of your own, you don't need a second car or a van to clean using WFP
either, did you ever hear of a trailer system.
So its more than possible to clean for £500 a year using WFP methods.
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Seriously mate you really are in a world of your own, you don't need a second car or a van to clean using WFP
either, did you ever hear of a trailer system.
So its more than possible to clean for £500 a year using WFP methods.
'course it is. ;) And a sole trader can't earn more than £100 a day either. ;)
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Seriously mate you really are in a world of your own, you don't need a second car or a van to clean using WFP
either, did you ever hear of a trailer system.
So its more than possible to clean for £500 a year using WFP methods.
'course it is. ;) And a sole trader can't earn more than £100 a day either. ;)
What a sole trader can earn in a day has nothing to do with this topic, you need to stay focused mate.
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l
Seriously mate you really are in a world of your own, you don't need a second car or a van to clean using WFP
either, did you ever hear of a trailer system.
So its more than possible to clean for £500 a year using WFP methods.
'course it is. ;) And a sole trader can't earn more than £100 a day either. ;)
What a sole trader can earn in a day has nothing to do with this topic, you need to stay focused mate.
er, yes it does becaused the amount you spend will be influenced by how much work you have. If you work one day a week with a couple of barrels out of the family car you can probably do it. If you are cleaning 15 - 20 houses a day and turning over £200-£350 a day ( depending where you are in the country) you can not operate for £500 a year.
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My water bill alone comes to £1300 a year. Admittedly that includes household usage. On top of that there's probably £150 of resin maybe £100 for membranes. £200 at least for pole sections £50 for a couple of brushes. Just spent £120 on clothing, £100 on footwear, £380 on mobile phone, £200 on bits and bobs (hose connectors, hose viakal, upvc cleaner etc) leisure battery if you use one £80? probably replace a vac £130 Gas could be £750 a year if you use hot. Website hosting, leafleting if you do it advertising? Then there's all the van costs on top.
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Dave this isn't a thread on a window cleaning expenses over the year its a thread on what extra WFP
will cost you and how much work needed to pull them costs back.
There are guys out there with high insurance costs and with a flashy vans cleaning using traditional methods that are paying £10k or more a year and there will be guys doing WFP on the cheap.
Guys like 8weekly seem to be under the impression that you can only make good money in this game if your a WFP
cleaner and that all traditional guys are low paid cleaners working from the family car.
So for the sake of debate lets say your a serious traditional window cleaner who has invested in a van and are thinking
of converting to WFP.
A good DIY system let say £1000, a couple of good poles lets say an SLX18 and an SLX30 lets say £700.
Now lets say maintaining it over 5 years cost another £800.
So in total over five years you are talking about £500 a year for a guy who hasn't metered water, lets double it for a guy
who has.
At the end of the day you would be hard pushed to put your WFP bill into the thousands unless you where wasting a
fortune.
So even at the higher end of expense your talking about £20 a week or two £10 properties to upgrade to a safer
method.
Even if it only slightly quicker it would still make sense to convert.
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Just to be clear guys I'm not saying your not a serious window cleaner if you are working traditionally from the
family car as there are plenty of successful guys who do.
I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.
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I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.
Sean this isn't a thread about about having a van and being classed a successful shiner.
As you said previously you need to stay focused.
My water bill for supply and sewerage is £140 a month. That alone has just wiped your £500 a year figure off the face of the earth threefold and then some compared to trad.
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Just to be clear guys I'm not saying your not a serious window cleaner if you are working traditionally from the
family car as there are plenty of successful guys who do.
I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.
If you work full time WFP, you can not work from the family saloon. You need a dedicated vehicle, or as you pointed out a trailer. That means, tax, mot, insurance, servicing, tyres etc. That's before you get to the cost of WFP equipment. If you are trad, you can work from the family car. Your notion of £500 a year is totally ridiculous.
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Just to be clear guys I'm not saying your not a serious window cleaner if you are working traditionally from the
family car as there are plenty of successful guys who do.
I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.
If you work full time WFP, you can not work from the family saloon. You need a dedicated vehicle, or as you pointed out a trailer. That means, tax, mot, insurance, servicing, tyres etc. That's before you get to the cost of WFP equipment. If you are trad, you can work from the family car. Your notion of £500 a year is totally ridiculous.
Maybe he meant to say its £500 a MONTH? That would be closer to reality.
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Give him one thing, if he believes it can be done on £500 a year he's sure got Vision ;)
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The difference in my own expenses is fairly significant.
Metered water bill, renting a small storage unit where water is filtered/items stored (a small rented garage was sufficient previously but it has no water or electric), much higher vehicle running costs due to using a much bigger payload van and insuring as a modified vehicle (not to mention the extra diesel required to lug weight around), Water filtering kit, much more expensive tool replacements.
Take them one at a time with estimations or annual averages if needed
1)WFP Metered water £350 p.a. , Trad £0 as taken from unmetered domestic supply.
2) WFP rent £1,650 p.a. , Trad c. £500 p.a. (with less for it though)
3) WFP vehicle running fuel £2.2k , insurance £500, repairs/servicing £1k
Trad fuel £1.5k , insurance £300 , repairs servicing £400
4) WFP Water filtering items (RO, DI, pre filters) £250 p.a. Trad £0
WFP other tools/items such as poles, microfibres/scrim, connectors, upgrades backpack and misc. I will have a stab at £300 a year though it's hard to average. - Trad maybe £70 a year if including replacing a ladder every few years.
So I've got £6,250 for WFP and £2,770 for trad - a difference of £3,480. However, my situation is exacerbated by WFP forcing me to rent a small unit. With trad, although I rented a garage, I could have dispensed with that if pushed. If I had been able to filter water at home, I would have saved £1,650 - so the difference would have been more like £1,800.
Also, my figures above make no real provision for some of the *initial* outlay. Obviously total accuracy is nigh on impossible as things fluctuate year to year. Additionally, although my outgoings are est. £3,480 higher, my extra turnover from WFP over trad dwarfs that figure.
Anyway, I think it's fairer to go with the £1,800 p a difference as most guys will filter water from home.
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£350 per annum water bill,, lucky you!
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£350 per annum water bill,, lucky you!
That is only the business use in a separate place from home. My domestic supply is about £130 a year because it is not possible to meter my water (I'm in a flat where it would need three meters to isolate my use from my neighbours'). I do pay over the odds for domestic supply.
Also, I expect to be paying more like £450 a year for business water once I have taken on more work in the next few months.
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I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.
Sean this isn't a thread about about having a van and being classed a successful shiner.
As you said previously you need to stay focused.
My water bill for supply and sewerage is £140 a month. That alone has just wiped your £500 a year figure off the face of the earth threefold and then some compared to trad.
Mate stop willy waving and be honest, how many litres of water does that £140 a month produce and how would going from
traditional to WFP add 9000 miles of traveling to a window cleaner working on his own.
For gods sake it would be cheaper to buy the water already filtered if it costing you that in water alone.
Yes I am lucky because I can make pure very cheaply so my WFP costs are very low but my god £500 a month just to supply one
person with pure and apply it to a window maybe you would be better questioning a silly comment like that.
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lol willy waving - bugger off.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1423913282_Screen Shot 2015-02-14 at 11.27.37.png)
The £140 a month was a figure off the top of my head whilst I was on the iPad, the screenshot from above is what is paid. Its £95 a month. Still its twice what youre thinking and its just for water.
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Dazmond while I agree with what you say above there's no reason why WFP should cost you an extra £2500
a year in expenses unless your comparing a beer money cleaner to a full time WFP cleaner.
If you leave out the vehicle then WFP costs me just over £550 a year and that's with a professionally fitted system.
System fitted with a couple of poles £2500.
Over 10 years....
Two R.O. membranes £500
SLX poles , brushes and fittings £1000
Pre filters, batteries and a replacement pump lets say another £1000.
11 litres of resin will last me over a year and with a new membrane I would get two so lets say £500
That's £5500 over 10 years or £550 a year and two be honest I'm sure it could be done cheaper.
Even with metered water its not going to add a massive difference to your yearly bill.
Here's the figures again I am eight years into this ten year plan and its on target to come in under this figure.
I don't pay extra for water as I'm not metered and need a vehicle so it might as well be a van.
So go on instead of wally waving tell me where my figures are wrong.
Again not total window cleaning expenses just what it costs me to clean using WFP.
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That's just a bill it doesn't tell me if its a household bill and if so what percentage of it is down to your business or does it supply more than one operator.
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Sean, I cant be arsed mate. Seriously. One reason is you start to make stupid accusations about willy waving and I simply cant be arsed to thrash it out on a Saturday afternoon with someone in that manner.
Also, the Vision threads show that you are like a dog with a bone when you get going on a topic that you disagree with. You simply have to prove your point and dont stop until you've been proved correct. Not that that happened, people just tired of you and shutup. You're like a dripping tap. And Ive better things to be doing with my time than arguing the toss with someone on an internet forum the ins and outs of my business compared to theirs.
That's just a bill it doesn't tell me if its a household bill and if so what percentage of it is down to your business or does it supply more than one operator.
Shut up - youre beginning to look sad.
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Sean, I cant be arsed mate. Seriously. One reason is you start to make stupid accusations about willy waving and I simply cant be arsed to thrash it out on a Saturday afternoon with someone in that manner.
Also, the Vision threads show that you are like a dog with a bone when you get going on a topic that you disagree with. You simply have to prove your point and dont stop until you've been proved correct. Not that that happened, people just tired of you and shutup. You're like a dripping tap. And Ive better things to be doing with my time than arguing the toss with someone on an internet forum the ins and outs of my business compared to theirs.
That's just a bill it doesn't tell me if its a household bill and if so what percentage of it is down to your business or does it supply more than one operator.
Shut up - youre beginning to look sad.
Very good Mate accuse somebody of being wrong and then take the huff when they try to reply, yes I will agree the
willy waving comment even though it wasn't really directed at you was uncalled for.
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jakey u been causing trouble whilst iv been away?? good lad. i better not say where iv been dont want to be accused of a willy waver ;)
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jakey u been causing trouble whilst iv been away?? good lad. i better not say where iv been dont want to be accused of a willy waver ;)
Been to a nudey beach, Joey? ;D