Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: The Jester of Wibbly on February 10, 2015, 02:13:37 pm
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
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I think so ...
Vauxhall are not going to produce a van that can't carry it's pay-load are they ?
They spend ££££s on research
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Spruce and a couple of lads on here have the knowledge of all that. However, the smaller newer engines are powerful, but not sure they're better than a 2.5 ltr motor when it comes to carrying a full load every day.
I was a little unsure when our Renault dealer showed me around the new model.
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I think so ...
Vauxhall are not going to produce a van that can't carry it's pay-load are they ?
They spend ££££s on research
I agree. Don't you worry about something that a global company has spent umpteen hundreds of thousands of pounds researching & developing- that's their job. You just buy what suites you best both physically & financially. Like I said before, I ran a 400ltr system for over four years with a van (doblo multijet) that had a 1250 turbo diesel engine in it & it was more than up to the job, never missing a beat too! ;)
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I've got one. I've got the LWB sportive and fully loaded it pulls better than my 2008 vivaro. I even drive it with Eco mode on, take this off and it drives even better.
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
there puuling your leg trying get your custom, the vivaro engine would be more than suffiecnt to carry its payload and some .
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My only concern with these new vans is the amount of stuff that can go wrong. Everything is electric and with Eco mode, sensored wipers, cruise control etc etc it just worries me a bit.
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There was a time that I would have had more faith in the research. However, couldn't the same have been said about the 6 speed gearbox that allowed water in underneath to corrode and screw up the gear selection?
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
there puuling your leg trying get your custom, the vivaro engine would be more than suffiecnt to carry its payload and some .
I see what you did there ;)
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
Aren't Ford the ones who are now putting a 1.0 turbo petrol engine in a Ford Focus?
Cozy, I'm old school and am 'nervous' about these tiny engines that have been given Turbo boost to achieve torque and horse power.
With regard to diesels, when it comes to torque it is achieved low down in the rev band on a bigger engine. As I've said before, the C5 in 2005 was the first Hdi that convinced me that small isn't always better.
Citroen boosted the 1.6 Hdi to 110 hp on the C5 facelift model which was the same hp as the 2.0 hdi fitted to the original C5. The 1.6 C5 ran OK with that engine solo but it couldn't pull a caravan. The previous 2.0 hdi engine got towcar of the year. The bigger 2.2 hdi in the same model C5 wasn't a patch on the 2.0 hdi either even although it had 136hp.
The original diesel Picasso was a 2.0 hdi 90hp. The second generation 1.6hdi Picasso was boosted to 110hp, a figure which was achieved with turbo boost in 3rd gear only. IMHO that engine wasn't a patch on the 2.0hdi.
But the market gets to accept new standards pushed by Government tax legislation. lower emissions mean lower costs and a business man will just accept this even if we are forced to drive vehicles in the future which have the power and performance of an old Morris Minor.
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lol @ Moggy Minor ;D
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There was a time that I would have had more faith in the research. However, couldn't the same have been said about the 6 speed gearbox that allowed water in underneath to corrode and screw up the gear selection?
Also on a wide selection of 5 speed gearboxes on other makes as well.
When Ford first brought out the 6 speed gearbox on their Mondeos they replaced most of the original batch under warranty with the customers being unaware that they had done it.
The 6th gear wasn't actually sitting in the oil and relied on splash lubrication. It didn't work and they were forced to replace them by the vehicle inspectorate. They could do this on the QT as it wasn't a safety issue.
Ford had done so much advertising to launch the new 6 speed gearbox that they couldn't admit it was a failure, especially as it was fitted to the upmarket Titanium Models first.
So just accept that most of what comes from the motor trade is sales hype and isn't always correct or advantageous to the customer.
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Personally I would not trust a Vivaro sized van with a 1.6 engine. Even if it does perform well surely the engine will have to work very hard and will be more prone to wear and faults. Especially when it regularly carries around 1/2 ton of water.
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What do you think to the new Ford Customs spruce?
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Smaller engines are progress. The Ford Model T had a 2.9l engine which put out 20hp. The next generation of Mondeos will apparently have 1l engines that put out 140bhp.
I would have no issue with buying one of these vans with a small engine providing it could put out the necessary pulling power.
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I have a 1.6 fiat doblo 105bhp and it does really well carrying up to 600l on board, I have even pulled a car on a trailer with ladders on roof and 400l+ water and it pulled fine didnt struggled at all
why dont you test drive a 1..6 vivaro and find out yourself?
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I have a 1.6 fiat doblo 105bhp and it does really well carrying up to 600l on board, I have even pulled a car on a trailer with ladders on roof and 400l+ water and it pulled fine didnt struggled at all
why dont you test drive a 1..6 vivaro and find out yourself?
I don't think you can test drive them fully loaded can you?
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What do you think to the new Ford Customs spruce?
I think they look good. They also still use the 2.2 TDci engine that has been around for quite sometime in various forms. What I like is the low down torque that comes from a bigger diesel engine. I'm old school and old school says that HP on a diesel engine means nothing. Its all about torque. Its genuine torque assisted by turbo charging and not totally reliant on the turbo charger to produce it.
I also like the over engineering that has gone into the body shell. Compare it to the sparseness of the internal structure of the vans produced by the French and Italian boys.
I'm 'scared' about all the 'attachments' to help get emissions down, which, as another poster noted, are more things to go wrong. The more complicated the engine, the more chance the main dealers have to service them - a kind of blackmail to force users back into overpriced workshops.
For example. Why do they need to route all of the battery charging instructions through the ECU? I know why they are doing it, I just don't understand why its so necessary to do this.
Whilst DPF filter technology has got better, a van doing short trips like we do is going to give us hassles. To prevent the hassles we have to take it up the motorway once a week and give it a good burn. Again, this just doesn't make sense to me.
Take the new 1.0 turbo petrol engine put into the Focus. It has an electrically driven motor driving the turbo. Yes, they sell you the advantages, but they won't tell you why they had no option to do this. If they didn't do it and drove the turbo the conventional way, ie with the exhaust, then you wouldn't buy the new Ford Focus with that engine, period.
I can understand why Craig McNeil said that this engine design is progress, but I don't buy the the reasons why they are doing it. Its all to do the the climate change EU lobby that are in it for their own financial gain - Al Gore for example.
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Ask the 'keen' salesman to hold a bag of water in the back. Purchase big balloon - think you can guess the rest :D :D
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I have a 1.6 fiat doblo 105bhp and it does really well carrying up to 600l on board, I have even pulled a car on a trailer with ladders on roof and 400l+ water and it pulled fine didnt struggled at all
why dont you test drive a 1..6 vivaro and find out yourself?
I don't think you can test drive them fully loaded can you?
Tell them that you want an extended test drive and tell them you want to test its suitability with a full payload. The dealers have to accommodate this as part of their commercial agreement with the manufacturers. They do their best to object, but stand your ground. If they don't agree then phone Vauxhall and complain.
You might have to do a Heath Robinson strap down of your tank, but it's only going to be for a short time. Otherwise you maybe able to arrange a bag of builder's sand on a pallet loaded with a forklift.
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Both very good vans ford and vivaro I went for transit custom in the end as built a bit better and much nicer to drive. Pick mine up 1st of March ;D
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Both very good vans ford and vivaro I went for transit custom in the end as built a bit better and much nicer to drive. Pick mine up 1st of March ;D
Black with a tailgate?
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Black with tailgate ;D how did you guess ha ha. !
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Black with tailgate ;D how did you guess ha ha. !
was ordering 5 vans and overheard you.
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Were you actually lol ?
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Where you actually lol ?
I got lucky ;D I think you posted on the same ford forum I post on.
I think you said you was expecting 1st march. Couldn't add any options or something ?
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You had me for a minute !! Yeah that's right I need to add LED in rear as this van was from dealer stock. I was lucky to get one with a tailgate. 22 weeks for factory order !!!
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Hmmm I have seen the ones they suggest I don't rate em.
I went over kill on mine. But they are perfect.
Cost me a few quid mind lol.
Hit me up an email.
Will show you what I have done.
Best mod is LED headlights and HID upgrade!!
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I've got the 1l focus with 125ps and its fab and goes very well so I went to buy new connect they only do 100ps model but good rating on power (can't remember what it was) anyway when he showed me all models and torque settings it clearly showed mid range torque levels were clearly not up to 1.6 diesel range so I opted for the diesel curated 95ps
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Hmmm I have seen the ones they suggest I don't rate em.
I went over kill on mine. But they are perfect.
Cost me a few quid mind lol.
Hit me up an email.
Sortedrst@hotmail.com
Will show you what I have done.
Best mod is LED headlights and HID upgrade!!
Sounds awesome ..... twcservices@hotmail.co.uk
Cheers
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Hmmm I have seen the ones they suggest I don't rate em.
I went over kill on mine. But they are perfect.
Cost me a few quid mind lol.
Hit me up an email.
Sortedrst@hotmail.com
Will show you what I have done.
Best mod is LED headlights and HID upgrade!!
Sounds awesome ..... twcservices@hotmail.co.uk
Cheers
You haz email :)
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Nothing has come through for some reason? :(
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It was in my sent box.
Junk ?
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small engines never last as long as big. its always been the case probably more so now the titchy engines have turbo plus gubbins
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
From my experience downsizing with new turbo technology in the latest engines across various manufacturers has been pretty good. When you drive one you realise that it's just as powerful as the bigger engines they are set to replace if not more powerful. They also pull a lot lower down the rev range. I've not driven one of the Vivaro engines yet though. How they are after 100 000 miles is another matter, but by the looks of it your considering brand new so that will probably be someone else problem. One of the benefits of a smaller engine is increased payload.
Regards the Ford sales person, he's just trying to make a sale, you wait until Ford put small engines in their Transits.
They also do a BiTurbo version if you are worried about power.
Simon.
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What kind of warranty are Ford and Vauxhall giving - does it match Hyundai for example?
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Ford depenends on how you pay for for van. Either 3/4/5 years. Standard is 3
Vauxhall is 4 I think.
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
From my experience downsizing with new turbo technology in the latest engines across various manufacturers has been pretty good. When you drive one you realise that it's just as powerful as the bigger engines they are set to replace if not more powerful. They also pull a lot lower down the rev range. I've not driven one of the Vivaro engines yet though. How they are after 100 000 miles is another matter, but by the looks of it your considering brand new so that will probably be someone else problem. One of the benefits of a smaller engine is increased payload.
Regards the Ford sales person, he's just trying to make a sale, you wait until Ford put small engines in their Transits.
They also do a BiTurbo version if you are worried about power.
Simon.
Really?
Does 400cc really make that much difference?
What's that in weight?
How much would the extra turbo weigh too?
I'm a bit of a size queen. ;D I don't trust the little engines. I've only got the 2.0 van but would love the 3.2 Merc :D
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
From my experience downsizing with new turbo technology in the latest engines across various manufacturers has been pretty good. When you drive one you realise that it's just as powerful as the bigger engines they are set to replace if not more powerful. They also pull a lot lower down the rev range. I've not driven one of the Vivaro engines yet though. How they are after 100 000 miles is another matter, but by the looks of it your considering brand new so that will probably be someone else problem. One of the benefits of a smaller engine is increased payload.
Regards the Ford sales person, he's just trying to make a sale, you wait until Ford put small engines in their Transits.
They also do a BiTurbo version if you are worried about power.
Simon.
Really?
Does 400cc really make that much difference?
What's that in weight?
How much would the extra turbo weigh too?
I'm a bit of a size queen. ;D I don't trust the little engines. I've only got the 2.0 van but would love the 3.2 Merc :D
I think it 30-40kgs from what I saw from the previous 2.0 version. Ok maybe no big deal but I'd still more than welcome it on a weigh bridge. I'm pretty sure most modern diesel vans will have a turbo so the added plumbing is not really extra weight. The ford TDCi engine is turbo hence the T in TDCi.
Simon.
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I'd be tempted to go back to the Ford dealer & give him the deal you can get on the Vauxhall. Match that & you have a sale, if you can't then I'm off to VX.
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Starting to switch towards the new Vivaro 120BH van as opposed to the Transit Custom 125 as finding a few better deals out there.
Only concern is the 1.6lt engine, although I see in the specs the Torque and BH is fine. I know new technology in engines can see smaller engines with more power. You only have to be an F1 fan to to see this happen ;D
However on speaking to Ford, they tell me the Vivaro will not perform when loaded with a 1.6lt engine. Are they spinning me line?
From my experience downsizing with new turbo technology in the latest engines across various manufacturers has been pretty good. When you drive one you realise that it's just as powerful as the bigger engines they are set to replace if not more powerful. They also pull a lot lower down the rev range. I've not driven one of the Vivaro engines yet though. How they are after 100 000 miles is another matter, but by the looks of it your considering brand new so that will probably be someone else problem. One of the benefits of a smaller engine is increased payload.
Regards the Ford sales person, he's just trying to make a sale, you wait until Ford put small engines in their Transits.
They also do a BiTurbo version if you are worried about power.
Simon.
Really?
Does 400cc really make that much difference?
What's that in weight?
How much would the extra turbo weigh too?
I'm a bit of a size queen. ;D I don't trust the little engines. I've only got the 2.0 van but would love the 3.2 Merc :D
I think it 30-40kgs from what I saw from the previous 2.0 version. Ok maybe no big deal but I'd still more than welcome it on a weigh bridge. I'm pretty sure most modern diesel vans will have a turbo so the added plumbing is not really extra weight. The ford TDCi engine is turbo hence the T in TDCi.
Simon.
Extra turbo I meant as in there's 2 in the Bi Turbo 1.6.
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I think from what I've seen most only have one turbo. The BiTurbo is the much more powerful engine. Even then I don't think its twice the turbo weight as I believe that the turbos work on different Rev ranges. A smaller turbo does low rev range and a bigger one does hi. As a work horse I don't think I'd go for the BiTurbo option, as long as it can hold its own on a motorway I'm happy.
Simon.
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What kind of warranty are Ford and Vauxhall giving - does it match Hyundai for example?
Warranty is made to sound good as it is lit up with neon lights.
Fair wear and tear is also a clause you will find often in warranty small print. You can given a 10 warranty which is a great selling feature, but most of anything needing replacement will be fair wear and tear so will not be a warranty claim as the vehicle gets older.
If its going to fail then it will be within the first few months, certainly within the first year. After that it has to be a major issue for warranty. It can also cost you a fortune to prove that the failure was a manufacturing/assembly fault. It can also be time consuming as the issue is past from one to another - (waiting for the vehicle to be assessed by the manufacturers technical inspector etc. Even an AA report doesn't guarantee you a speedy resolution.)
Another thing to be especially aware of is the anti perforation warranty. If you don't specify on each service (written on job card) that they are to inspect for any issues (the labour to do this is added to your bill), then they will not accept a claim even if their is a justified paint/body rot issue.
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I have a 310 125bhp Custom, It is well built but sluggish, when motorway driving you need to drop a gear when on an incline, A little research reveals the custom's gearing is to long hence poor acceleration, If you opt for the 330 model the gearing is lower to allow for the extra weight, giving better performance...I got my info from transit owners forum
My last van was a trafic 2.0 115, this was more car like to drive and a fair bit quicker than the custom
The custom goes back in July, I might replace with the 140bhp trafic or a custom 155bhp 330
If going for a custom i would advise opting for the stereo upgrade, load liner, heated front screen
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don't listen to ford I got one of these vans back in dec great pulls better than my old vw transporter but it was a 51 plate 2.5 tdi
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i cant remember the last time i had anything under 3.0 car or van. i prefer proper guts, non of this wizzy turbo stuff that breaks before 100,000 miles
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i cant remember the last time i had anything under 3.0 car or van. i prefer proper guts, non of this wizzy turbo stuff that breaks before 100,000 miles
Nowt wrong with Turbo's. My car's got 2 of 'em. :D But you need a big heavy lump (not the driver ;D) to go with it/them.