Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: matty72 on January 24, 2015, 05:22:00 pm
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Southern water say they have stopped my 'return to sewer allowance' i have just spent an hour on the phone to the manager of escalations department, he said since september there is a new policy which he read to me, it says southern water is stopping all allowances to window cleaners because they cant be sure where and how much waste water is being used, i explained you can not charge a service we do not recieve, round and round in circles we went, he said no you cant have it, you can write to head office to complain if you like. What should i do now.
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Read your penultimate sentence. :)
John
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ok i have and your saying what mate
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Started getting big issues with them now you must stand your ground and insist you can not be charged for water you take with you to work that is not retuned to sewer You must have a sub meter fitted mate. Then tell them you will involve the ombudsman.
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i will fit one mate and told him so but he said wont make any difference, you cant have the rebate, so im thinking do i go to ofwat next, so annoying cant trust them
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i will fit one mate and told him so but he said wont make any difference, you cant have the rebate, so im thinking do i go to ofwat next, so annoying cant trust them
You have to write to them and state that you have a meter fitted and that you can prove your readings to them.
Then, if they reply saying that isn't satisfactory, you have to contact the Consumer Council for Water: http://www.ccwater.org.uk/
You must have tried to deal with Southern Water before the CCW will take on your complaint.
Vin
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Okay vin thanks for that will go down that path and see what happens cheers
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i will fit one mate and told him so but he said wont make any difference, you cant have the rebate, so im thinking do i go to ofwat next, so annoying cant trust them
The challenge you face is that if you fit a water meter now, there is no proof (or even suggestion of proof) of the amount you're claiming. You will, however, be covered for the future.
Until then, I suggest that your letter to them states very clearly that you followed their procedure in applying for non return to sewer allowances and for them to make a blanket "no window cleaners" dismissal is unreasonable as they are obliged to take notice of your individual circumstances. Be clear that you have been running "X" cubic meters onto your garden, so it is unreasonable for them not to give you a rebate.
Vin
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I must say you will get a allowance but you must have a sub meter fitted first. My issues are once I have submitted my reading they just sit on the bill, it takes about 5 phone calls to sort.
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Ive spoken to a manager, he says you can only now go to head office in writing, he said southern water give a 7% discount already to all customers for sewerage, window cleaners no longer can have any extra, so i will do what vin says and write to the ccw and see what happens
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You almost definitely won't get any more reduction on what you've used.
That's wasting time and energy fighting I think mate.
Fitting the sub meter for future water use is where you should spend your time.
Keep us posted...
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will do cheers for suggestions guys
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You almost definitely won't get any more reduction on what you've used.
That's wasting time and energy fighting I think mate.
Fitting the sub meter for future water use is where you should spend your time.
Keep us posted...
You have the cost of two stamps (one to SW, one to the CCW) and a few minutes writing two brief letters stating facts in them as your stake.
You have £2 odd per cubic meter for all the water that didn't go down the sewer as your potential payoff.
Write to them. Their return to sewer form says that you'll get the rebate from the date they receive the form, so don't back down. You may well not win but the effort you need to expend is so minimal that it would be barmy to give up now.
Vin
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You almost definitely won't get any more reduction on what you've used.
That's wasting time and energy fighting I think mate.
Fitting the sub meter for future water use is where you should spend your time.
Keep us posted...
You have the cost of two stamps (one to SW, one to the CCW) and a few minutes writing two brief letters stating facts in them as your stake.
You have £2 odd per cubic meter for all the water that didn't go down the sewer as your potential payoff.
Write to them. Their return to sewer form says that you'll get the rebate from the date they receive the form, so don't back down. You may well not win but the effort you need to expend is so minimal that it would be barmy to give up now.
Vin
The problem is that there is no proof of what was used for work.
It would be a guess. A good guess perhaps but a guess.
Anglian water wouldn't wear it with me a few years back.
The guys I spoke to were very reasonable to be honest.
We agreed, after much talking, to only have the sewerage rebate on future, metered, water use.
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i used to get the rebate but now they stopped it that what bugs me, i've just ordered a meter on ebay for outside tap, will write the letters that vin said about next week and see what happens cheers for ya help will let you know what happens.
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The problem is that there is no proof of what was used for work.
It would be a guess. A good guess perhaps but a guess.
Anglian water wouldn't wear it with me a few years back.
The guys I spoke to were very reasonable to be honest.
We agreed, after much talking, to only have the sewerage rebate on future, metered, water use.
I think Southern Water have a unique system, hence the confusion. I certainly hope it's unique, as it's abominable.
SW send out a form that specifically asks for an estimate. It asks how much you expect to use in the coming year. There is no mention of metering (and no space anywhere on their poxy, photocopied form to detail that you have a meter).
So, specifically to ask for an estimate, then just to say "we're not prepared to accept an estimate so we're assuming NO water went to ground" is something the CCW will almost certainly consider to be unacceptable. It's certainly worth appealing.
Vin
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ok i have and your saying what mate
Write to head office and explain in detail what you are unhappy about.
John
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You could always pi$$ in the sewers that'd show 'em ;D
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The problem is that there is no proof of what was used for work.
It would be a guess. A good guess perhaps but a guess.
Anglian water wouldn't wear it with me a few years back.
The guys I spoke to were very reasonable to be honest.
We agreed, after much talking, to only have the sewerage rebate on future, metered, water use.
I think Southern Water have a unique system, hence the confusion. I certainly hope it's unique, as it's abominable.
SW send out a form that specifically asks for an estimate. It asks how much you expect to use in the coming year. There is no mention of metering (and no space anywhere on their poxy, photocopied form to detail that you have a meter).
So, specifically to ask for an estimate, then just to say "we're not prepared to accept an estimate so we're assuming NO water went to ground" is something the CCW will almost certainly consider to be unacceptable. It's certainly worth appealing.
Vin
Apologies, I didn't know that.
Might be worth going to court over. Seriously.
Book your time @x£p/h.
Then go for some compo too.
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They should know the average figures for a property of your size with the same number of occupants. They should be able to see very quickly how much extra water you are using for your business. The problem is proving how much you waste and how much you use.
The discount on the water you reject is limited anyway. You'll get no discount on the water you use for your business - just the water you chuck away and then you might have to prove it doesn't go down the drain.
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Most of you are making very rational suggestions. Unfortunately, Southern Water don't behave rationally.
We have
Me: Started on this 18months ago. I've been told that my claim is going before a claim committee and I'll be informed of the result on 22nd October 2014 (!). In the middle of all this, they wanted to increase my monthly direct debit to £1,300.
One of our franchisees: Periodically told that "we're working on it".
Another one: "Yes, it'll all be sorted out at the end of the year"
Another is getting readings and bills smaller than before he started WFP.
All of us have meters on both our input and waste output, with pics on the day they were installed.
Vin
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£1300 wow!
Thats around 360,000 litres a month ....you must have a huge round :o :o
I had them round to look at my poor flow from the tap and the two guys that came were really polite and helpful , they did say southern water are going through a stage of trying to improve customer service .......clearly not there yet!
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I have just wrote letter and will send tomorrow, after reading what vin has just said though doesn't sound good, vin is your water residential or commercial site and does anyone have a rebate still from residential, im just thinking they might turn around and say were going to charge you business water rates now, which they have threatend in the past but nothing came of it. oh and just remebered the guy i spoke to said the only possible way i can do it now is if i have a new mains put in from the road to feed the tank, that was another new one they keep changing what they saying
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I have just wrote letter and will send tomorrow, after reading what vin has just said though doesn't sound good, vin is your water residential or commercial site and does anyone have a rebate still from residential, im just thinking they might turn around and say were going to charge you business water rates now, which they have threatend in the past but nothing came of it. oh and just remebered the guy i spoke to said the only possible way i can do it now is if i have a new mains put in from the road to feed the tank, that was another new one they keep changing what they saying
Business water prices are identical to residential in Southern Water. Ours is residential.
Domestic: https://www.southernwater.co.uk/our-charges
Business: https://www.southernwater.co.uk/business-our-charges
What you need to major on is that you were asked to estimate your charges for the coming year. At no point were you told to install a second meter, nor did their return to sewer form have any way of reporting actual usage to them after the event, so a meter would have been useless anyway. Tell them it is unacceptable, nine months into the year, just to decide that you are due a rebate of zero backdated to a point of their choosing. Be concise and to the point. Keep it simple.
Remember, you have to get to the point where you can argue that you have seriously attempted to come to a sensible agreement with SW before you pass it on to the CCW.
Vin
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Most of you are making very rational suggestions. Unfortunately, Southern Water don't behave rationally.
We have
Me: Started on this 18months ago. I've been told that my claim is going before a claim committee and I'll be informed of the result on 22nd October 2014 (!). In the middle of all this, they wanted to increase my monthly direct debit to £1,300.
One of our franchisees: Periodically told that "we're working on it".
Another one: "Yes, it'll all be sorted out at the end of the year"
Another is getting readings and bills smaller than before he started WFP.
All of us have meters on both our input and waste output, with pics on the day they were installed.
Vin
Before you do anything else, I suggest that you cancel the direct debit with your bank and tell the water company what you have done and why you have done it. By all means discuss a monthly payment with them but one that you will pay by BACS or some other method of your choosing..
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Most of you are making very rational suggestions. Unfortunately, Southern Water don't behave rationally.
We have
Me: Started on this 18months ago. I've been told that my claim is going before a claim committee and I'll be informed of the result on 22nd October 2014 (!). In the middle of all this, they wanted to increase my monthly direct debit to £1,300.
One of our franchisees: Periodically told that "we're working on it".
Another one: "Yes, it'll all be sorted out at the end of the year"
Another is getting readings and bills smaller than before he started WFP.
All of us have meters on both our input and waste output, with pics on the day they were installed.
Vin
Before you do anything else, I suggest that you cancel the direct debit with your bank and tell the water company what you have done and why you have done it. By all means discuss a monthly payment with them but one that you will pay by BACS or some other method of your choosing..
NO NO NO!!!
Do not cancel the direct debit. You'll then be passed over to non-payments or whatever its called.
By al means reduce the payment-they can't refuse that.
But whatever you do, do not stop paying.
It WILL NOT do you any favours.
(sorry for caps but that is a colossal no no)
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Most of you are making very rational suggestions. Unfortunately, Southern Water don't behave rationally.
We have
Me: Started on this 18months ago. I've been told that my claim is going before a claim committee and I'll be informed of the result on 22nd October 2014 (!). In the middle of all this, they wanted to increase my monthly direct debit to £1,300.
One of our franchisees: Periodically told that "we're working on it".
Another one: "Yes, it'll all be sorted out at the end of the year"
Another is getting readings and bills smaller than before he started WFP.
All of us have meters on both our input and waste output, with pics on the day they were installed.
Vin
Before you do anything else, I suggest that you cancel the direct debit with your bank and tell the water company what you have done and why you have done it. By all means discuss a monthly payment with them but one that you will pay by BACS or some other method of your choosing..
NO NO NO!!!
Do not cancel the direct debit. You'll then be passed over to non-payments or whatever its called.
By al means reduce the payment-they can't refuse that.
But whatever you do, do not stop paying.
It WILL NOT do you any favours.
(sorry for caps but that is a colossal no no)
I'm not suggesting not to pay. I'm suggesting to agree a monthly amount and pay by BACS. OR, take the reading and pay for what you use each month.
All I am saying is, don't allow them access to your bank account.
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Most of you are making very rational suggestions. Unfortunately, Southern Water don't behave rationally.
We have
Me: Started on this 18months ago. I've been told that my claim is going before a claim committee and I'll be informed of the result on 22nd October 2014 (!). In the middle of all this, they wanted to increase my monthly direct debit to £1,300.
One of our franchisees: Periodically told that "we're working on it".
Another one: "Yes, it'll all be sorted out at the end of the year"
Another is getting readings and bills smaller than before he started WFP.
All of us have meters on both our input and waste output, with pics on the day they were installed.
Vin
Before you do anything else, I suggest that you cancel the direct debit with your bank and tell the water company what you have done and why you have done it. By all means discuss a monthly payment with them but one that you will pay by BACS or some other method of your choosing..
NO NO NO!!!
Do not cancel the direct debit. You'll then be passed over to non-payments or whatever its called.
By al means reduce the payment-they can't refuse that.
But whatever you do, do not stop paying.
It WILL NOT do you any favours.
(sorry for caps but that is a colossal no no)
I'm not suggesting not to pay. I'm suggesting to agree a monthly amount and pay by BACS. OR, take the reading and pay for what you use each month.
All I am saying is, don't allow them access to your bank account.
Oh, sorry. Thats how i read it. My bad.
yeah, don't stop paying whatever happens.
But the DD thing-I agree.
They took an extra grand off me. (i got it back after a month or so though)
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Before you do anything else, I suggest that you cancel the direct debit with your bank and tell the water company what you have done and why you have done it. By all means discuss a monthly payment with them but one that you will pay by BACS or some other method of your choosing..
When they send out the next bill they will be receiving the same letter from all the franchisees on the same day stating exactly what we calculate to be the correct payment and giving them 28 days to disagree. I suspect they will be so happy that someone has worked it out for them that they may well accept it. Either that or (more likely given their general ineptitude) they won't respond within the 28 days so we'll go to the CCW.
Vin
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Sent letter off today to ccw and southern water, let you know what happens cheers