Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: andyralph on January 21, 2015, 08:33:37 pm
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Hi all can anybody tell me what I should have my waste set at and I have to use a booster pump should the pump be before my fibedyne filter or before my 40/40 membrane my set up at the moment is tap / filter / pump / 40/40 / di / then tank any advice thanks andy
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I shut my waste tap off NOT TIGHT and open it 3/4 of one turn , this I've done for years, do not shut valve too tight. I've got it at 006 going into my tank at the moment but his will change to 000 tds when I hook up my resin bottle.
As for a booster pump I'm not sure we're you would put it. I would of though it would be before every thing.
Hope this helps
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It doesn't really matter if booster pump is before or after pre-filter.
But most seem to put it before the pre-filter.
I would suggest setting the waste valve so you are getting approximately 60% waste water to 40% pure water ratio.
You can check this by using a water jug and a stop watch to collect waste water in the jug for one minute.
Then do the same with the pure water and adjust waste valve as necessary to achieve the 60/40 ratio.
When it's set to where you want it put a mark on the valve for future reference.
Alternatively fit a pressure gauge to the pre-filter outlet if you don't already have one.
I just use my pressure gauge as a reference for setting the waste valve and 100 psi on the gauge gives me the approximate 60/40 ratio I require.
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Booster pump AFTER filter. This helps protect the pump and makes it last longer.
Also it's the RO that needs pressurising not the filter, hence pump goes before the RO.
TAP~~FILTER~~BOOSTER~~RO~~DI
Flush for 10 mins daily before you fill up, when ready to fill close the waste valve all the way to pressurise the system, then open up slightly so the waste is set at about 3/4.
You'll get more pure if you keep the waste fully closed but it will kill your membrane quickly. The more you open the waste valve the less pure you get but the longer the membrane lasts.
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What ever you do don't close the waste valve all the way it will destroy the membrane, it actually states this
on my 4040 R.O.
With a new membrane you could run it at 50/50 and still get the water down to a low TDS level but that's up to you.
I always run my R.O. fully opened to start with (all the water to Waste) this is to stop R.O. shock which can shorten
the life of the membrane. (For about 10 mins. as has already been stated)
Then an half hour flush on Sundays to clean it out.
Its up to you where you put your booster pump (to be honest I cant see tap water causing much damage) but some
have found that putting it after the pre filters causes air locks, again what ever works for you but keep this in mind
should you experience any problems.
I just judge the ratios by looking what's going into the tank and what's running to waste but I also have a lever instead
of a round tap so I now just set the lever to a certain angle and its never far out.
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No no no there's only one correct way to set up your 4040 as each membrane will wanna run different to the next. Open the valve fully and start to close it off and by doing so your tds reading will lower keep going until you get to the lowest tds reading possible. You will no where the lowest is because it will go so far and the reading will start to go up again then knock it back. I'd suggest putting on a inline tds meter saves you time, money and membranes. Rob.
Ratio has nothing to do with setting up so don't guess 50/50 or 60/40 it's not correct
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Mine has a 3/8 hole factory drilled on the gate valve I was told to close the gate valve for correct operation water then enters the 3/8 hole createding high pressure
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No no no there's only one correct way to set up your 4040 as each membrane will wanna run different to the next. Open the valve fully and start to close it off and by doing so your tds reading will lower keep going until you get to the lowest tds reading possible. You will no where the lowest is because it will go so far and the reading will start to go up again then knock it back. I'd suggest putting on a inline tds meter saves you time, money and membranes. Rob.
Ratio has nothing to do with setting up so don't guess 50/50 or 60/40 it's not correct
That is indeed the correct way to set it up!
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Mine has a 3/8 hole factory drilled on the gate valve I was told to close the gate valve for correct operation water then enters the 3/8 hole createding high pressure
that is a total waste of time I had one of those from the cleaning warehouse and it would be a fluke if yours worked " who are these clowns that think of these things " it has a number of key factors like membrane type and water pressure. Altering the waste by a faction can be the difference between rejection rates of 5tds to 35tds
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The cleaning warehouse is ware I got mine from thats what they told me to do it seems to work thow but could it shorten the life of the Membrane?
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Lol don't suprise me... take it off your wasting resin 👍 buy a standard gate or ball valve and setup again
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The cleaning warehouse is ware I got mine from thats what they told me to do it seems to work thow but could it shorten the life of the Membrane?
just out of interest when you close it down what readings do you get before it di's it?
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I have my gate valve open 3/4 of the way. Brings my tds down from 300 to 12. Resin lasts me 6 to 7 weeks filling 400 litres daily.
I hate the fact cold water slows down ro so much this time of year, I'm only getting roughly 1 litre a minute at the mo from my hf4 membrane, use to get a litre and half a minute.
I normally just buy a new membrane this time of year but I'm holding off this time to see how the membrane recovers when the water temp rises.
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No no no there's only one correct way to set up your 4040 as each membrane will wanna run different to the next. Open the valve fully and start to close it off and by doing so your tds reading will lower keep going until you get to the lowest tds reading possible. You will no where the lowest is because it will go so far and the reading will start to go up again then knock it back. I'd suggest putting on a inline tds meter saves you time, money and membranes. Rob.
Ratio has nothing to do with setting up so don't guess 50/50 or 60/40 it's not correct
What he says.
If you have a look on the Gaps web site there is a section on setting up your membrane to find the sweet spot. Mine last 1 was about 12 years old before it needed replacing. Change filters regularly. flush for about 10min after filter change. Luckily mine goes to zero at just under 4 bar pressure.
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Zero how you managing to achieve this?
What you run hf4 on booster?
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I have my gate valve open 3/4 of the way. Brings my tds down from 300 to 12. Resin lasts me 6 to 7 weeks filling 400 litres daily.
I hate the fact cold water slows down ro so much this time of year, I'm only getting roughly 1 litre a minute at the mo from my hf4 membrane, use to get a litre and half a minute.
I normally just buy a new membrane this time of year but I'm holding off this time to see how the membrane recovers when the water temp rises.
Why would you change your membrane at this time of the year ? and I don't understand what you mean about waiting to
see if it recovers.
A membrane only needs replaced when it can no longer get the TDS down to an acceptable level, it has no control over the
speed of water production as that will be down to your water pressure.
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how much pure is produced is determined by the pressure and water temperature.
What I mean by recover is see how much water production increases when water temp goes up.
The temp of my tap water is 10c at the moment which will surely have an adverse affect on production.
Normally a brand new membrane deals alot better with cold water, I see huge improvements when its changed, hence why I use to do it every year.
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The cleaning warehouse is ware I got mine from thats what they told me to do it seems to work thow but could it shorten the life of the Membrane?
just out of interest when you close it down what readings do you get before it di's it?
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Out of tap is 120ppm after membrane 0ppm don't use resin been like this about year goes up to 3ppm
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Goes upto 3 ppm in the summer months
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Well you can't argue with that mate.. We get high readings of 450 from the tap here but when we stuck on that pre drill rubbish and the reading went through the roof into 40s 50s, took off straight away and readings are 16 to 20.
Membrane is well rubbish some Italian thing.
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how much pure is produced is determined by the pressure and water temperature.
What I mean by recover is see how much water production increases when water temp goes up.
The temp of my tap water is 10c at the moment which will surely have an adverse affect on production.
Normally a brand new membrane deals alot better with cold water, I see huge improvements when its changed, hence why I use to do it every year.
No it doesn't my 4040 is as quick now as it is at any time of the year, the cold weather has caused your water pressure to
drop a little so you need to boost it a bit more.
Put your money into a booster pump and don't worry about changing your membrane.
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I have a booster pump, membrane is 1 year old, nothing has changed in my setup other then the water is colder.
And yes cold water does affect production, fact.
Hf5 membranes handle cold water better then hf4, perhaps you have hf5?
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No no no there's only one correct way to set up your 4040 as each membrane will wanna run different to the next. Open the valve fully and start to close it off and by doing so your tds reading will lower keep going until you get to the lowest tds reading possible. You will no where the lowest is because it will go so far and the reading will start to go up again then knock it back. I'd suggest putting on a inline tds meter saves you time, money and membranes. Rob.
Ratio has nothing to do with setting up so don't guess 50/50 or 60/40 it's not correct
Avo is correct.
Took some trial and error and a second membrane (after a couple of years ) when ordered from Phil at vyair, he advised me to set up this way.
Also to build a bypass for the waste valve - brilliant ! ;)
basically you put a t piece before and after the waste valve with a short section of pipe/hose running between them, in the middle of that you fit a tap/ball valve. Once you have set the waste valve to its optimum for lowest tds in pure production you need never adjust it again. You simply open the valve on the bypass to flush and close it when you want to produce pure water. If you are not already doing this, you should ;)
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No no no there's only one correct way to set up your 4040 as each membrane will wanna run different to the next. Open the valve fully and start to close it off and by doing so your tds reading will lower keep going until you get to the lowest tds reading possible. You will no where the lowest is because it will go so far and the reading will start to go up again then knock it back. I'd suggest putting on a inline tds meter saves you time, money and membranes. Rob.
Ratio has nothing to do with setting up so don't guess 50/50 or 60/40 it's not correct
Avo is correct.
Took some trial and error and a second membrane (after a couple of years ) when ordered from Phil at vyair, he advised me to set up this way.
Also to build a bypass for the waste valve - brilliant ! ;)
basically you put a t piece before and after the waste valve with a short section of pipe/hose running between them, in the middle of that you fit a tap/ball valve. Once you have set the waste valve to its optimum for lowest tds in pure production you need never adjust it again. You simply open the valve on the bypass to flush and close it when you want to produce pure water. If you are not already doing this, you should ;)
now that's a great tip 😄👍 a bypass valve awesome mate
Might do this myself you got any pics to go with it please?
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I put an inline tds coming off my 4040 so I could keep a close eye on things and it was the best £22 I spent on the system. Loads of people just guess there membrane rejection rates it's mental.
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All copper plumbed as ro is in first floor flat and cannot have any failures or leaks ! ( and it was what I had lying around at the time) but you get the idea, could be done more simply with jg push fits and plastic pipe. waste valve is to the right and bypass and flush valve to the left. (open and flushing, a quarter turn shuts it off to produce pure) ;)
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I put an inline tds coming off my 4040 so I could keep a close eye on things and it was the best £22 I spent on the system. Loads of people just guess there membrane rejection rates it's mental.
same ! :)
I have the meter on when I flush, tds starts high, and you need to be able to know when its dropped enough to close the flush valve ( can take up to 5 mins )
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Simple but effective when it warms up a bit outside I might rig something up similar.
Cheers mate 👍
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Thats the same principle on a de or sand filtration systems for back washing swimming Pool filters