Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dan The Lad on January 16, 2015, 06:20:07 pm
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Right looking at starting up asap, looking at a system that pures on-site. Min 350L tank.
Seen this on ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SALE-500L-FRAMED-BUDGET-DI-PURE-WATER-SYSTEM-Kit-2-user-window-cleaning-/350926583458?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item51b4dab6a2
Anyone had experience with this system? Or recommend? I'm on a budget of 4k that includes van/water system.
Any help much appreciated.
Dan
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Are you in a hard water area, this will have a bearing on what you need to buy
Darran
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Soft water
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Do it yourself mate, it's fairly easy, and you'll save a lot of money, but if you've cash to burn, go for it, check other options though, such as pure freedom
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Do it yourself mate, it's fairly easy, and you'll save a lot of money, but if you've cash to burn, go for it, check other options though, such as pure freedom
Ive had a look at pure freedom, on the expensive side but you do get a decent package.
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Being in a soft water area, it'd be easy to set up your own system mate, a tank, some hose, a pump and controller, di vessel, hose reel and your prety mcch there
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Being in a soft water area, it'd be easy to set up your own system mate, a tank, some hose, a pump and controller, di vessel, hose reel and your prety mcch there
You make it sound so easy lol. I mean, frame, connecting it all, etc etc.
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I did it as a total newbie to wfp, and believe me I'm no expert! But it really is quite easy mate, it looks hard, but actually it's all very basic stuff, you can always strap down the tabk with ratchet straps, if you don't want to frame it in. If it's only a small ish tabk that would be fine... What van have you got?
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IMO
I was a none believer in wfp until not to long ago, my friend told me to buy
A merlin
A 350 tank
A battery
A pump
A controller
A 11 ltr Di bottle
A hose reel
A 100m hose - I bought thermobore
A bit of reinforced hose
A few hose connectors an bits an bobs
A pole
A bit of wire
A bag of sand
That's it mate all done, I think I spent about 450-500 to get set up, I just add as I go along.
I would say try and get a framed tank to bolt down them straps are not the best. I bought a 500L tank with frame off eBay just before Xmas for 150, I just need to swap them over now.
Merlin was most expensive thing I bought at 175
Everything on eBay and there's some nice ones on there ready to go at decent prices
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There you go ^
There's no need to frame the tank straight away though, if it's only a 350 litre flat tank, straps will be fine, you can always get a proper fitter to put a frame round it at a later date - I'm just thinking to get you started you can do all the basics your self for cheap
You won't need a RO if your water is really soft or low tds, di vessel will be fine
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http://youtu.be/R84xXDdobYE - did that myself to give you an idea
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Like jakey boy says and wot I done it's just to get started I have a strap that I used for my 350 tank I won't use it again. You can have it for free am in Liverpool or cover p&p
It has a metal handle to crimp tight which helps a little bashed an rusty but hey ho it does the job
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http://youtu.be/R84xXDdobYE - did that myself to give you an idea
Nice mate, am i right in saying that system i linked does not pure in the tank??
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The system you have looked at on eBay uses normal tap water then the DI vessel (black vessel in the picture) is what purifys the water. Where I live we have to use a Reverse osmosis system before the tap water goes into the tank, to make it less hard for the di vessel to cope.
If your water is soft and the tds is low, that di vessel may be all you need, so you can just put normal tap water into the tank and the di vessel will purify it Completly.
Water is measured in tds, (total dissolved solids) where I live it's very high, over 400 parts per million. So we all have to use a reverse osmosis system to bring that number down beifre it goes through the di vessel. Some people live in an area where the tds is really low e.g 70 ppm, which means they don't need the RO, they just run nkrmal water through the di.
Hope that helps!
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If you want my pennysworth, it's this;
Yes it is possible to put your own system together from bits and bobs off ebay, but in my opinion it is a false economy.
I know people who have done that and they go on and on about how much money they've saved. But then they also spend a lot of their "working" time faffing about fixing problems. My opinion is that working time is like gold dust, you only have so much every week, you have to spend it cleaning windows not messing about with your equipment because it is unreliable.
And then of course there is the time you initially spend searching, buying, putting together, snagging etc your home made system in the first place.
I honestly don't know how those DIY lads can be bothered. Such a carry on.
I got my system from pure2o, which is ionics budget range. Can't remember exactly how much I paid but I think it was about £2,700 for a 400 litre hard water system plus a bit extra to have the van floor protected with speed liner (highly recommend that by the way).
They installed my system in the van, and it worked perfectly. It went on working perfectly ever since. Never had a single hour of downtime due to something not working. In my opinion, the sheer lack of faff is well worth the extra money, and crucially my precious work time has never been interfered with.
So anyway, my advice is forget messing about trying to build it yourself, just bite the bullet and get a properly made system installed. Life's just too short.
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If you want my pennysworth, it's this;
Yes it is possible to put your own system together from bits and bobs off ebay, but in my opinion it is a false economy.
I know people who have done that and they go on and on about how much money they've saved. But then they also spend a lot of their "working" time faffing about fixing problems. My opinion is that working time is like gold dust, you only have so much every week, you have to spend it cleaning windows not messing about with your equipment because it is unreliable.
And then of course there is the time you initially spend searching, buying, putting together, snagging etc your home made system in the first place.
I honestly don't know how those DIY lads can be bothered. Such a carry on.
I got my system from pure2o, which is ionics budget range. Can't remember exactly how much I paid but I think it was about £2,700 for a 400 litre hard water system plus a bit extra to have the van floor protected with speed liner (highly recommend that by the way).
They installed my system in the van, and it worked perfectly. It went on working perfectly ever since. Never had a single hour of downtime due to something not working. In my opinion, the sheer lack of faff is well worth the extra money, and crucially my precious work time has never been interfered with.
So anyway, my advice is forget messing about trying to build it yourself, just bite the bullet and get a properly made system installed. Life's just too short.
Problems? You don't get problems with a diy system mate, it's all very simple, nothing really to go wrong, maybe a small leak here and there,
The reason many can be bothered to do it themselves is becuase A - it's cheap, £700 for my whole setup
B - you know exactly where everything is and how it works
C - you have total satisfaction and knowledge of all the equipment
It's a no brainer, £2700 vs just £700
You won't get any more problems than anyone with a system put it by 'experts'
As for time, it really only takes a couple of days to fit a system, so that's a weekend, hardly taking up working time is it?
I looked at pure h2o systems before fitting my own, I just couldn't justify the money for what you get, it's cheap stuff mate, it looks nice in its wrapping and stickers etc, but it's all basic basic stuff, strip it back, it's worth less than half what you paid,
For two days work, much better to do it yourslef, you've then got all the choice of what equipment to use, total control over it all,
Best of all, the Mrs and I went to New York with the money we saved on a system, now that was worth it!
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Its so easy. Strap a tank in, put pump on a board. Connect pipes. wire controller once you find some where to mount it. You don't have to put DI in van. Fill from garden hose, into top of tank
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Its so easy. Strap a tank in, put pump on a board. Connect pipes. wire controller once you find some where to mount it. You don't have to put DI in van. Fill from garden hose, into top of tank
Exactly,
Although try to make it look a tad neater than Duncan's :o
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I personally think a DIY system could be made better than a professional system.
The key points for me are;
A custom plastic tank.
John Guest fittings.
Gardiner metal hose lock fittings.
A DIY system usually fails on the tank/frame and leaks.
Also if you go the DIY route FFS don't use chocolate blocks lol
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My main reservation about DIY would be about what happens to the tank in a crash. Apart from the tank fitting, I could do the rest safely by DIY - though I would need to do a quick bit of research if I wanted to fit a split charge relay.
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My main reservation about DIY would be about what happens to the tank in a crash. Apart from the tank fitting, I could do the rest safely by DIY - though I would need to do a quick bit of research if I wanted to fit a split charge relay.
Bulk head? If not then just have a smaller tank laid flat
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Its so easy. Strap a tank in, put pump on a board. Connect pipes. wire controller once you find some where to mount it. You don't have to put DI in van. Fill from garden hose, into top of tank
Exactly,
Although try to make it look a tad neater than Duncan's :o
LMAO
NO it works perfect. If I need to remove it, its so easy. That picture was when I first installed it. I said I would make it better at a latter date......1 year later ;D
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Its so easy. Strap a tank in, put pump on a board. Connect pipes. wire controller once you find some where to mount it. You don't have to put DI in van. Fill from garden hose, into top of tank
Exactly,
Although try to make it look a tad neater than Duncan's :o
LMAO
NO it works perfect. If I need to remove it, its so easy. That picture was when I first installed it. I said I would make it better at a latter date......1 year later ;D
Looks like a bomba gone off Duncan! The system is good, it's the land fill site in the rest of the van that's the problem! :o
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Instead of getting crushed in one place at least you get crushes evenly lol.
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Has any of the 'professionals' done a crash test of a loose tank with van bulk head ?
Factory bulkheads are supposed to be shaped for maximum strength, but I don't know if they have any tests/ratings etc.. My theory is that the water although heavy and solid would deform and burst thr plastic tank before it had chance to totally demolish a bulkhead.
Darran
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I have a 400 l upright tank strapped snug against bulk head.
I have added additional baffling - 80mm diameter perforated land drainage hose, 25 m cut to lengths and stuffed in vertically.
I consider it safe. In the event of heavy braking or a crash the water would need to gather forward momentum in order to breach the bulkhead. Drive sensibly, allow for braking distances.
As you can gather my system is diy.
With a basic di system as the op has mentioned I think diy is still the way to go.
The only thing a supplied system has going for it is sometimes its appearance, they can look tidy, but then is that important ? its not going to make you any more money, only cost you more.
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Am sticking with above, no way is the tank going through the bulk head, it would need forward movement.
Bulkhead behind seats is made to take impacts, no way would it burst through.
Yes I am about to change my tank from 350 with straps to 500 bolted, behind bulk head just touching it, this is nothing to do the fact I think it's not safe coz it is, I just want a shelf welding on either side, 1 for battery and other for Merlin, will have bracket under Merlin for di bottle, I am going to run a hose from Merlin along bulk head through 2 x salt bottles but will fill with resin so my main di bottle will only be used as back up and can easy change 2 small ones.
Am then looking to fit another tank ( eBay item 390534818207 ) above 500 facing out of side door and attach to roof using bolts and brackets, am looking for a small hose reel that I can use 50m pole hose for this tank to apply chemicals
I already have 1 hose reel attached to roof so will add another to make 2 man set up
Hopefully after all this is done around the top end of the van and very compact I can use the rear end of the van to sort my pressure washing venture.......but that's for another day, let's just get the wfp all set up perfect first.
I don't really think I would ever go and buy a new system at a cost of 2700 like says above 700 is plenty and I have seen Jakey boys setup a while back and it's propa tidy.
.............. Do you think Jakey boy might let me put my name on his system for 2k 😄👍
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My Transit bulkhead is solid. Really thick. It was till I removed it and strapped tank to seats lol. Only 250ltr. If a tank is up to a bulkhead without a gap, all should be ok
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Dont you fellas know if you don`t spend a fortune then you will be a crap windy with a system that will take you life at the first turn. We are a very developed industry with all the levels of snobbery. Some even speak in capital letters. And some are not spoken to at all due to them using dated methods or heavy poles. What is a professional system? Its one, putting the same parts as you can buy and telling you its better because it has a Designer sticker.
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Dont you fellas know if you don`t spend a fortune then you will be a crap windy with a system that will take you life at the first turn. We are a very developed industry with all the levels of snobbery. Some even speak in capital letters. And some are not spoken to at all due to them using dated methods or heavy poles. What is a professional system? Its one, putting the same parts as you can buy and telling you its better because it has a Designer sticker.
I will have you know Grippa Max is laser etched.
Worth an easy £3 an hour on my hourly rate ;)
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
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Every body has different needs or reasons for choosing the system they have.
For me I wanted it to be as safe as possible and I hate d.i.y and I'm no good at it.
That's why I went for grippa there tanks and system are designed and manufactured by them and gardiners and crash tested as well as fitted by people who no what there doing.
With it being crash tested I have some idea and confidence in how it will preform in a crash.
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on a bulkhead. There is something that you don't seem to have considered. Supposing you collide with another vehicle or run someone over. The police would be all over you like a rash. They could easily allege that you didn't break as hard as you would have if the tank had been fitted professionally. They might just about be able to swing that in a courtroom too. If death occurred, it could go as far as a manslaughter rap (worst case scenario admittedly). So it's not just about whether the bulkhead would protect you. It's also about whether you would hurt someone else by not applying the brakes as fully as possible.
Yes, we can all drive carefully. I always have respect for any load I'm carrying. But it only takes one idiot out there or even another good driver having a bad day...
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Each to their own.
"I looked at pure h2o systems before fitting my own, I just couldn't justify the money for what you get, it's cheap stuff mate"
Not pure h2o, never heard of them. Pure2o is where I got mine from ( www.pure2o.co.uk ) the value brand of ionics.
The safety aspect is another thing I didn't mention in my earlier post. Pure2o systems are crash tested, which was good for piece of mind.
There will always be people who want to build it themselves, and good luck to them. Just saying, that faff was definately not for me and I've never regretted getting a properly manufactured system.
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Fitted mine for a lot less diy my God have I sworn , My set up is different to most as I have an Mitsubishi L200 with a 400ltr flat tank strapped in Load-bed with pump-box cost less than a grand with hose reel and fittings
Double bulkhead and their ain't an inch for the tank to move in any direction . :-*
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on a bulkhead. There is something that you don't seem to have considered. Supposing you collide with another vehicle or run someone over. The police would be all over you like a rash. They could easily allege that you didn't break as hard as you would have if the tank had been fitted professionally. They might just about be able to swing that in a courtroom too. If death occurred, it could go as far as a manslaughter rap (worst case scenario admittedly). So it's not just about whether the bulkhead would protect you. It's also about whether you would hurt someone else by not applying the brakes as fully as possible.
Yes, we can all drive carefully. I always have respect for any load I'm carrying. But it only takes one idiot out there or even another good driver having a bad day...
I really didn't want to get into the pro-fit v DIY but...
How would a crash tested system fare any differently to a DIY one in a collision for someone outside (ie not the driver or passenger)
Same weight on.
Same brakes.
Same reaction time.
Same breaking distance.
Same stopping distance.
Not a :P post-a genuine question.
I've had both DIY & Pro-fit systems so no axe to grind either.
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Each to their own.
"I looked at pure h2o systems before fitting my own, I just couldn't justify the money for what you get, it's cheap stuff mate"
Not pure h2o, never heard of them. Pure2o is where I got mine from ( www.pure2o.co.uk ) the value brand of ionics.
The safety aspect is another thing I didn't mention in my earlier post. Pure2o systems are crash tested, which was good for piece of mind.
There will always be people who want to build it themselves, and good luck to them. Just saying, that faff was definately not for me and I've never regretted getting a properly manufactured system.
I ment pure20!
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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on a bulkhead. There is something that you don't seem to have considered. Supposing you collide with another vehicle or run someone over. The police would be all over you like a rash. They could easily allege that you didn't break as hard as you would have if the tank had been fitted professionally. They might just about be able to swing that in a courtroom too. If death occurred, it could go as far as a manslaughter rap (worst case scenario admittedly). So it's not just about whether the bulkhead would protect you. It's also about whether you would hurt someone else by not applying the brakes as fully as possible.
Yes, we can all drive carefully. I always have respect for any load I'm carrying. But it only takes one idiot out there or even another good driver having a bad day...
Wrong. Its works the other way round. Anything in the back of a closed can be left sat on its own. You are responsible to make it secure (strap down) A tank bolted to the floor can be considered fitted in correctly and weakened the van floor. The van floor isn't designed to have bolts drilled in it. It works both ways
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
There is no way a sheet steel bulkhead , held with fairly small welds is "solid as a rock" rocks are very very solid.
These two videos show how weak a bulkhead can be , the items in the back are unsecured but also much lighter than the tanks we tend to carry ......my 650 grippa with the metal frame that holds it must be 750-800 kgs ....... i would much rather that didn't hit my bulkhead.
I have also attended car/van/ lorry crashes and it is amazing how unrecognisable some vehicles can end up ......not necessarily at super high speeds either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgK1285RObA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i9EMHhZ_Ww
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on a bulkhead. There is something that you don't seem to have considered. Supposing you collide with another vehicle or run someone over. The police would be all over you like a rash. They could easily allege that you didn't break as hard as you would have if the tank had been fitted professionally. They might just about be able to swing that in a courtroom too. If death occurred, it could go as far as a manslaughter rap (worst case scenario admittedly). So it's not just about whether the bulkhead would protect you. It's also about whether you would hurt someone else by not applying the brakes as fully as possible.
Yes, we can all drive carefully. I always have respect for any load I'm carrying. But it only takes one idiot out there or even another good driver having a bad day...
I really didn't want to get into the pro-fit v DIY but...
How would a crash tested system fare any differently to a DIY one in a collision for someone outside (ie not the driver or passenger)
Same weight on.
Same brakes.
Same reaction time.
Same breaking distance.
Same stopping distance.
Not a :P post-a genuine question.
I've had both DIY & Pro-fit systems so no axe to grind either.
Hi Poleking. Perhaps I didn't explain my thoughts very well. My thinking was that if a driver knows that their tank is a DIY with ratchet straps or mainly relying on a bulkhead, the self-preservation instinct could be to not apply the brakes fully. This could be the difference between (a) having or not having a collision OR (b) having a collision at a faster speed than would otherwise be the case. Even if the brakes were fully applied, the police could allege that the driver may have held back in order to preserve his own skin. Either way, a prosecution lawyer could make some sort of case.
I first came across something analogous to this some years ago (pre-WFP days). I had a girlfriend who wouldn't use her seatbelt when she was a passenger in my vehicle. She used the argument that it was her choice. 'Fair enough' I thought, it's her fine too. Then one day I needed to make an emergency stop with her in the passenger seat. She managed to avoid banging her head on the windscreen - just. When I braked, I was tring to get a balance between not hurting her and not hurting the person in the road. Luckily, I avoided both scenarios. My braking was compromised by my knowledge that she wasn't wearing her seatbelt. In the immediate aftermath, she was still complaining about wearing the belt (yes, I've known some right nutters). I switched off the engine and refused to budge until she either removed herself from the vehicle or put her belt on. She put her belt on.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting that anyone pays out for all those bells and whistles on their system - many of them unnecessary. I'm just suggesting that at least ensure that the tank part is installed professionally. It doesn't even have to be a WFP supplier - just an engineering company that has the knowledge, tools and equipment.
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Bulk head?
Are you seriously suggesting the bulk head would stop a tank full of 350ltrs or more of water in a crash at 40mph + if you are then you're nuts
Of course, remember the tank is baffled, plus if it's a flat tank then of course it'll be safe, my bulk head is solid as a rock, thick solid metal, stop being a turd and go and work for health and safety. Drive safe allow for stopping distances, and all will be well.
Bulk heads are designed to embrace impact. A water tank will not go through a bulk head unless it had a lot of space to fly and smash through it. Even so it would only dent it. A flat tank would not have the force to even remotely bother a bulk head.
Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on a bulkhead. There is something that you don't seem to have considered. Supposing you collide with another vehicle or run someone over. The police would be all over you like a rash. They could easily allege that you didn't break as hard as you would have if the tank had been fitted professionally. They might just about be able to swing that in a courtroom too. If death occurred, it could go as far as a manslaughter rap (worst case scenario admittedly). So it's not just about whether the bulkhead would protect you. It's also about whether you would hurt someone else by not applying the brakes as fully as possible.
Yes, we can all drive carefully. I always have respect for any load I'm carrying. But it only takes one idiot out there or even another good driver having a bad day...
I really didn't want to get into the pro-fit v DIY but...
How would a crash tested system fare any differently to a DIY one in a collision for someone outside (ie not the driver or passenger)
Same weight on.
Same brakes.
Same reaction time.
Same breaking distance.
Same stopping distance.
Not a :P post-a genuine question.
I've had both DIY & Pro-fit systems so no axe to grind either.
Hi Poleking. Perhaps I didn't explain my thoughts very well. My thinking was that if a driver knows that their tank is a DIY with ratchet straps or mainly relying on a bulkhead, the self-preservation instinct could be to not apply the brakes fully. This could be the difference between (a) having or not having a collision OR (b) having a collision at a faster speed than would otherwise be the case. Even if the brakes were fully applied, the police could allege that the driver may have held back in order to preserve his own skin. Either way, a prosecution lawyer could make some sort of case.
I first came across something analogous to this some years ago (pre-WFP days). I had a girlfriend who wouldn't use her seatbelt when she was a passenger in my vehicle. She used the argument that it was her choice. 'Fair enough' I thought, it's her fine too. Then one day I needed to make an emergency stop with her in the passenger seat. She managed to avoid banging her head on the windscreen - just. When I braked, I was tring to get a balance between not hurting her and not hurting the person in the road. Luckily, I avoided both scenarios. My braking was compromised by my knowledge that she wasn't wearing her seatbelt. In the immediate aftermath, she was still complaining about wearing the belt (yes, I've known some right nutters). I switched off the engine and refused to budge until she either removed herself from the vehicle or put her belt on. She put her belt on.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting that anyone pays out for all those bells and whistles on their system - many of them unnecessary. I'm just suggesting that at least ensure that the tank part is installed professionally. It doesn't even have to be a WFP supplier - just an engineering company that has the knowledge, tools and equipment.
Seems like you've thought about it mate.
I get where you're coming from, but politely disagree.
My point of view would be to slam my anchors on as hard as I could because the impact would cause more damage than braking would.
Agreed-it is a case of driving for the load carried.
Interesting how all the crash tests on youtube, Ionics, and (is it?) pure2o never show an unsecured load and a decent bulkhead. Someone posted videos in this thread. A weighty unsecured load stopped at the bulkhead of a decent enough looking bulkhead. And something the weight of a box of tissues going through a poxy bulkhead.
Vans-the bulkhead in an expert/scudo/dispatch May as we'll be made of 3mm ply and held in with duct tape. Vivaro/Trafic/primastar a lot better. And the Vito, rock solid.
Personal experience of all 3.
My personal gripe is that the noodles in a van are 'designed to secure the load the van is safe to carry'. So should be fine.
A 'crash tested system'-the installers have virtually no comeback in the event of an accident.
Are you more likely to survive a crash if you have a 'crash tested' system?
There is no evidence to support this. Literally none.
There certainly is enough marketing BS to lead one to believe that one would though.
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Seems like you've thought about it mate.
I get where you're coming from, but politely disagree.
My point of view would be to slam my anchors on as hard as I could because the impact would cause more damage than braking would.
Agreed-it is a case of driving for the load carried.
Interesting how all the crash tests on youtube, Ionics, and (is it?) pure2o never show an unsecured load and a decent bulkhead. Someone posted videos in this thread. A weighty unsecured load stopped at the bulkhead of a decent enough looking bulkhead. And something the weight of a box of tissues going through a poxy bulkhead.
Vans-the bulkhead in an expert/scudo/dispatch May as we'll be made of 3mm ply and held in with duct tape. Vivaro/Trafic/primastar a lot better. And the Vito, rock solid.
Personal experience of all 3.
My personal gripe is that the noodles in a van are 'designed to secure the load the van is safe to carry'. So should be fine.
A 'crash tested system'-the installers have virtually no comeback in the event of an accident.
Are you more likely to survive a crash if you have a 'crash tested' system?
There is no evidence to support this. Literally none.
There certainly is enough marketing BS to lead one to believe that one would though.
Sure thing, I realise that much of the marketing cannot be relied upon. There are a lot of over-egged puddings in this game these days. Ironically, I do keep WFP as basic as possible and the issue of tank securing is probably the one single area where I do go the extra yard (unlike the tank, hopefully) :) . I suppose it comes down to whatever an individual feels comfortable with. I wouldn't be happy relying on ratchets and/or bulkhead. I have no evidence to justify that; it's more a gut feeling I suppose.
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Seems like you've thought about it mate.
I get where you're coming from, but politely disagree.
My point of view would be to slam my anchors on as hard as I could because the impact would cause more damage than braking would.
Agreed-it is a case of driving for the load carried.
Interesting how all the crash tests on youtube, Ionics, and (is it?) pure2o never show an unsecured load and a decent bulkhead. Someone posted videos in this thread. A weighty unsecured load stopped at the bulkhead of a decent enough looking bulkhead. And something the weight of a box of tissues going through a poxy bulkhead.
Vans-the bulkhead in an expert/scudo/dispatch May as we'll be made of 3mm ply and held in with duct tape. Vivaro/Trafic/primastar a lot better. And the Vito, rock solid.
Personal experience of all 3.
My personal gripe is that the noodles in a van are 'designed to secure the load the van is safe to carry'. So should be fine.
A 'crash tested system'-the installers have virtually no comeback in the event of an accident.
Are you more likely to survive a crash if you have a 'crash tested' system?
There is no evidence to support this. Literally none.
There certainly is enough marketing BS to lead one to believe that one would though.
Sure thing, I realise that much of the marketing cannot be relied upon. There are a lot of over-egged puddings in this game these days. Ironically, I do keep WFP as basic as possible and the issue of tank securing is probably the one single area where I do go the extra yard (unlike the tank, hopefully) :) . I suppose it comes down to whatever an individual feels comfortable with. I wouldn't be happy relying on ratchets and/or bulkhead. I have no evidence to justify that; it's more a gut feeling I suppose.
We all have to carry our own load bud.
All the best.
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What a lot of you people cant understand is how strong straps are. If its to an anchor point, its strong as a fitted one. I would say stronger because anchor points are reinforced or to strong point son the chassis.
Wagon drivers use straps to hold 44 tons. They used to use rope with dolly knotts
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What a lot of you people cant understand is how strong straps are. If its to an anchor point, its strong as a fitted one. I would say stronger because anchor points are reinforced or to strong point son the chassis.
Wagon drivers use straps to hold 44 tons. They used to use rope with dolly knotts
I don't think anyone has questioned the integrity of the ratchet straps, Dunc.
The query tends to be about the strength of the lash point (noodle ring) in the van
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It's a subject worth investigating,
For example, a tank placed, strapped, fixed, bolted against the bulk head becomes part of the van so when braking it brakes with the van, no forward momentum,
So, is a load strapped to the floor display the same charactistics, as the load is fixed would it not stay in place ? All the videos I've seen that show damage the load is loose no fixing or strapping down, and those earlier in the thread have a great big generator flying in behind the load, had this been strapped down even to the noodle it would have cancelled out the forward momentum.
Anyone got a PHD in physics ???
Darran
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It's a subject worth investigating,
For example, a tank placed, strapped, fixed, bolted against the bulk head becomes part of the van so when braking it brakes with the van, no forward momentum,
So, is a load strapped to the floor display the same charactistics, as the load is fixed would it not stay in place ? All the videos I've seen that show damage the load is loose no fixing or strapping down, and those earlier in the thread have a great big generator flying in behind the load, had this been strapped down even to the noodle it would have cancelled out the forward momentum.
Anyone got a PHD in physics ???
Darran
My mate is a maths teacher at a very good school and (I think) studying for his phd though I forget what he's done and got to do.
I got him to work some loadings with relation the the integrity of a strap.
It was much more complicated than I'd've thought.
The force (nM) exerted carrying x weight and coming to an absolute stop from 30mph 40 50 & 60.
Then there's the variable, which he couldn't do. The probability of complete sudden stop is unlikely. As in hitting the pillar of a bridge. That (in a van) is unmovable. More likely you'd hit another vehicle, which would shunt and actually lower the impact force.
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It's a subject worth investigating,
For example, a tank placed, strapped, fixed, bolted against the bulk head becomes part of the van so when braking it brakes with the van, no forward momentum,
So, is a load strapped to the floor display the same charactistics, as the load is fixed would it not stay in place ? All the videos I've seen that show damage the load is loose no fixing or strapping down, and those earlier in the thread have a great big generator flying in behind the load, had this been strapped down even to the noodle it would have cancelled out the forward momentum.
Anyone got a PHD in physics ???
Darran
My mate is a maths teacher at a very good school and (I think) studying for his phd though I forget what he's done and got to do.
I got him to work some loadings with relation the the integrity of a strap.
It was much more complicated than I'd've thought.
The force (nM) exerted carrying x weight and coming to an absolute stop from 30mph 40 50 & 60.
Then there's the variable, which he couldn't do. The probability of complete sudden stop is unlikely. As in hitting the pillar of a bridge. That (in a van) is unmovable. More likely you'd hit another vehicle, which would shunt and actually lower the impact force.
Yes, the variables would be wide ranging - perhaps more wide ranging than the maths teacher has allowed for. If there was a head-on collision, I'm wondering if that would be greater impact than hitting something unmovable as both vehicles' speeds would need to be taken into account. Mind you, in such an unlikely scenario, I imagine that a full water tank wouldn't be the biggest problem anyway.
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The probability of complete sudden stop is unlikely. As in hitting the pillar of a bridge. That (in a van) is unmovable. More likely you'd hit another vehicle, which would shunt and actually lower the impact force.
Unlikely maybe, but still possible, and therefore you'd have to base your calculations on coming to a complete stop.
Also, even if you did hit another vehicle, what if it was heading straight towards you? (Say for example your van slipped on some ice on a single carraigeway and veered into the opposite lane into oncoming traffic) That is not at all unlikely, my wife had a car accident where exactly this happened.
The impact force would then be increased not decreased.
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You also need to take in to account that water even strapped or bolted down(tank) will react differently .
A 500 litre tank of water will react differently to 1/2 a ton of bricks strapped down as water is a movable force shifting the weight around.
Some tanks like grippa for example are designed to absorb some of the energy in a crash.
A window cleaner with a grippa tank got hit from behind when he was at a stand still in his vw transporter the back of the van crumpled up to the tank,tank onwards the van was fine.
The tank did not move.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1421699673_20140703_122035 (1).jpg)
£3000 AND ITS THE NUTS
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The way the Grippa tank is made is what sold me.
The way the straps bolt into the tank and floor is what sold me.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1421699673_20140703_122035 (1).jpg)
£3000 AND ITS THE NUTS
That looks the dogs mate. The reels look like £400 reels. The tank is bolted down, with what looks like at least 25mm. Not a few m8 bolts
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Reel £160 on gardeners website