Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Elfyn on December 29, 2014, 08:40:02 am

Title: Frozen
Post by: Elfyn on December 29, 2014, 08:40:02 am
I was out to work at 7 this morning to do a few shops - it was -5c. Started working and within 5mins the water in the hose on the ground had frozen solid. So, I packed up and came home.  >:(
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Frankybadboy on December 29, 2014, 08:41:09 am
did you not watch the weather forecast last night  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 29, 2014, 08:43:08 am
I don't know why everyone doesn't have a hot water heater now.

One days work and it's paid for itself.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Ian101 on December 29, 2014, 08:45:34 am
not able to trad them ?
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Elfyn on December 29, 2014, 08:46:30 am
Yes  I did. Everything okay in the van - loads of insulation and a heater in overnight. It's just that sometimes I feel that no matter what you do the weather will get the better of you. And, before anyone asks, no I don't use hot water - I just can't justify the cost.
The weather is turning back to being a bit milder in a couple of days and I'll catch up then.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Ian101 on December 29, 2014, 08:49:32 am
even with hot some days best to stay home ... throwing water onto very cold ground and will freeze to become a hazard ..... maybe im cautious but after fighting (and winning)(should post story one day) a false insurance claim for last 18+ months it makes you very aware to what can happen
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Spruce on December 29, 2014, 08:55:47 am
even with hot some days best to stay home ... throwing water onto very cold ground and will freeze to become a hazard ..... maybe im cautious but after fighting (and winning)(should post story one day) a false insurance claim for last 18+ months it makes you very aware to what can happen

Hi Ian
If you could post this story it would be very informative. I grit around doors and pathways of residential unless specifically told not to, but I wouldn't do shop fronts wfp in this weather TBH.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: G Griffin on December 29, 2014, 09:06:03 am
Sometimes it's better to give in or 'let it go, let it go......'
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Ian101 on December 29, 2014, 09:06:47 am
even with hot some days best to stay home ... throwing water onto very cold ground and will freeze to become a hazard ..... maybe im cautious but after fighting (and winning)(should post story one day) a false insurance claim for last 18+ months it makes you very aware to what can happen

Hi Ian
If you could post this story it would be very informative. I grit around doors and pathways of residential unless specifically told not to, but I wouldn't do shop fronts wfp in this weather TBH.

yup perhaps it would make a few more of us aware of what can /does happen ESPECIALLY with your own insurance company  >:( .. doing tax return  tomorrow so will write it then in between calculations - plucking up courage to get out there this morning for a gutter clean  :(
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: AuRavelling79 on December 29, 2014, 09:08:03 am
even with hot some days best to stay home ... throwing water onto very cold ground and will freeze to become a hazard ..... maybe im cautious but after fighting (and winning)(should post story one day) a false insurance claim for last 18+ months it makes you very aware to what can happen

Yes please share Ian - I had two coves walk over my hose and one loudly says to the other "If I trip over that I can make a claim."

I overheard and loudly said "only if you're colourblind and couldn't read English".

It does make me a little concerned even if it was meant as a joke.



Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Ian101 on December 29, 2014, 09:08:10 am
Sometimes it's better to give in or 'let it go, let it go......'

 ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 29, 2014, 09:08:50 am
will go out after 11am should be okay, no chance im chuking water about
at the mo hot or otherwise
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Walter Mitty on December 29, 2014, 09:11:14 am
Delayed start here in southeast but temperature lowly climbing.  Will be out there working from 10.  Not got a warm water system as been about to change the van for past couple of years and didn't want hassle of re-doing everything in new one.  Currently backpacking temporarily anyway as using hire van.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: kempy on December 29, 2014, 09:14:49 am
Hot costs about £150-£200 to be assembled - DIY

Then about £2 a day Gas .

If you earn say £100 a day for two days , then it's paid for itself .

Very cheap if you ask me .

Days like this your better just staying at home and enjoy Family time , or do what Gary says and work after 11am or 12pm .
And just Tickover with work .
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: G Griffin on December 29, 2014, 09:17:33 am
Gary's right, warm/hot water can still freeze on the ground.
We've not had the Mpemba effect mentioned, for a while. I enjoyed those discussions  ;D.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 29, 2014, 09:18:34 am
even with hot some days best to stay home ... throwing water onto very cold ground and will freeze to become a hazard ..... maybe im cautious but after fighting (and winning)(should post story one day) a false insurance claim for last 18+ months it makes you very aware to what can happen

Will look forward to that post Ian!

Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 29, 2014, 09:19:04 am
Gary's right, warm/hot water can still freeze on the ground.
We've not had the Mpemba effect mentioned, for a while. I enjoyed those discussions  ;D.

Mpemba schmemba.lol
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: tony braid on December 29, 2014, 09:22:38 am
Hi guys who is the guy who sells the heaters one off mine has gone down
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Elfyn on December 29, 2014, 09:29:37 am
not able to trad them ?
I was quite some time getting the windows soap free, so why re-soap them?
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 29, 2014, 09:30:22 am
Corwoods ez heat is the best in my opinion.

Full guarantee and no 20 minute cut off, plus all the connections you need.mjust add the propane bottle and your up and running. £180
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Elfyn on December 29, 2014, 09:35:09 am
Around 2 years ago I changed form the larger diameter Hozelock type of hose over to microbore. Last inter was fairly mild and I'm thinking, as this is my first full winter with microbore, do they freeze easier with the smaller bore? Perhaps some of the more technically minded guys on here can answer that.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: G Griffin on December 29, 2014, 09:35:37 am
Gary's right, warm/hot water can still freeze on the ground.
We've not had the Mpemba effect mentioned, for a while. I enjoyed those discussions  ;D.

Mpemba schmemba.lol
 ;D
Just be careful out there.
I'm childminding, again  ::)roll, but we will be heading outdoors. I love this weather and I saw a kingfisher, yesterday.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Dave Willis on December 29, 2014, 09:43:05 am
Around 2 years ago I changed form the larger diameter Hozelock type of hose over to microbore. Last inter was fairly mild and I'm thinking, as this is my first full winter with microbore, do they freeze easier with the smaller bore? Perhaps some of the more technically minded guys on here can answer that.


I've always found -3 to be workable -5 just too cold for the brushes/jets and me.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Walter Mitty on December 29, 2014, 09:49:04 am
Around 2 years ago I changed form the larger diameter Hozelock type of hose over to microbore. Last inter was fairly mild and I'm thinking, as this is my first full winter with microbore, do they freeze easier with the smaller bore? Perhaps some of the more technically minded guys on here can answer that.

I would say that microbore does freeze more easily - though I haven't been able to make a direct comparison.
I'm just applying laws of physics really - the less water there is, the more quickly it should heat or freeze.
There is a lot less than half of the amount of water in microbore as in an equivalent length of half inch hose.  If the water is kept running there ought not be an issue inside the hose - it's when you stop that it can become a problem.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Walter Mitty on December 29, 2014, 09:50:28 am
Around 2 years ago I changed form the larger diameter Hozelock type of hose over to microbore. Last inter was fairly mild and I'm thinking, as this is my first full winter with microbore, do they freeze easier with the smaller bore? Perhaps some of the more technically minded guys on here can answer that.


I've always found -3 to be workable -5 just too cold for the brushes/jets and me.

I've managed a -2 before now but would prefer 0 or above really.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: SeanK on December 29, 2014, 10:18:30 am
Plenty of hours to work and make a good living throughout the year without the need to work in minus 5.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jimiwindows on December 29, 2014, 11:15:01 am

Y wfp shops???
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Tom White on December 29, 2014, 11:43:26 am
, no I don't use hot water - I just can't justify the cost.

An immersion heater is very cheap (and easy) to install; if you can park off-road.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: P @ F on December 29, 2014, 12:42:48 pm
I watched the weather last night , -7c was predicted , i couldnt be bothered to run the lead and heater out , thought i would take a chance !!!!!!

Just been out to check the van .........oh poop , all hoses, di, pumps , strainers , L5 completely solid  :-[ :-[ :-[

Rich
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: duncan h on December 29, 2014, 12:43:01 pm
Hot water makes no difference in freezing weather. I was told hot water freezes quicker than cold. Either way. It freezes on the ground. I always wfp peoples doors. Frozen water by a front door is a no no if you ask me. Dare say Insurance would be a pain in a claim. This is one time Traditional wins...other than using a ladder on icy ground
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: duncan h on December 29, 2014, 12:46:58 pm
I watched the weather last night , -7c was predicted , i couldnt be bothered to run the lead and heater out , thought i would take a chance !!!!!!

Just been out to check the van .........oh poop , all hoses, di, pumps , strainers , L5 completely solid  :-[ :-[ :-[

Rich
What kind of vans do you people drive  ;D -5 outside but van is well above freezing
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jk999 on December 29, 2014, 01:06:42 pm
Still need to  stop pumps from freezing up even if your not gonna  use  them
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: P @ F on December 29, 2014, 01:13:08 pm
T4 coldline  ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Tom White on December 29, 2014, 01:30:35 pm
Still need to  stop pumps from freezing up even if your not gonna  use  them

I've attached two pumps and the flow controllers to a bit of ply wood and have an electrical connection so that they can be unplugged from the cable that runs to the battery.

My tank outlet has a inline tap I can switch off.

This means I can disconnect the pumps from the electrical cable and the tank outlet and just carry the board into the house.

It doesn't look pretty, but it works, and it takes less than a minute to do.

I don't normally bother doing this if I'm using the tank's immersion heater though, because that turns the tank into a radiator and keeps everything from freezing.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Dave Willis on December 29, 2014, 02:12:19 pm
Just got back in from a large commercial job. Heater on the whole time - water ok at the brush but it did start to freeze once. Water on the ground freezing pretty quickly so plenty of salt.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: dazmond on December 29, 2014, 02:17:39 pm
im not going back to work till the 5th jan.already had 9 days off. :)

all i would do in this weather is put an oil filled radiator in the back overnight

sweeping brush and ice melt grit

rigger boots,thick socks,beanie hat and glacier perfect curve gloves,ski pants,fleece,waterproof jacket...and crack on.

i use hot water and thermobore plus red hose anyway in winter so no problems with water freezing in the hose or jets.

for certain doorways id trad them instead of leaving water around and grit/sweep away water around paths.thats it.

...oh and 2 flasks!one for tea and the other with hot soup in! ;)

i wouldnt be starting work before 10am though and probably finish at 330pm in this weather
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jk999 on December 29, 2014, 02:21:35 pm
Tosh  is the heater in tank one that you fitted or one of those you just drop into top
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: rosskesava on December 29, 2014, 02:31:00 pm
I watched the weather last night , -7c was predicted , i couldnt be bothered to run the lead and heater out , thought i would take a chance !!!!!!

Just been out to check the van .........oh poop , all hoses, di, pumps , strainers , L5 completely solid  :-[ :-[ :-[

Rich
What kind of vans do you people drive  ;D -5 outside but van is well above freezing

We had -4C at the coldest part of the night and nothing froze in the van not even the few inches of water in the bucket.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: richard groves on December 29, 2014, 03:00:27 pm
Still need to  stop pumps from freezing up even if your not gonna  use  them

I've attached two pumps and the flow controllers to a bit of ply wood and have an electrical connection so that they can be unplugged from the cable that runs to the battery.

My tank outlet has a inline tap I can switch off.

This means I can disconnect the pumps from the electrical cable and the tank outlet and just carry the board into the house.

It doesn't look pretty, but it works, and it takes less than a minute to do.
Good advice
I've done exactly the same for years, not having the luxury of heating my van or even being able to park any reasonable distance from my flat even if I were to be able to run leccy out to it.
Don't over complicate things and keep them cheap and simple and there will be very little to go wrong  ;)
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Scrimble on December 29, 2014, 03:19:04 pm

Y wfp shops???

why trad them when it takes a 3rd of the time with wfp
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: richard groves on December 29, 2014, 03:47:46 pm

Y wfp shops???

why trad them when it takes a 3rd of the time with wfp
not when you've got up to start work for 7am in the dark with a temp of -5 and within 5 mins have had to pack up and go home it isn't   :D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Tom White on December 29, 2014, 04:23:49 pm
Tosh  is the heater in tank one that you fitted or one of those you just drop into top

Fitted; I cut a hole in it to fit it.  Just take your time and be careful and it'll work out fine.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: wfp master on December 29, 2014, 05:00:14 pm
dropping to -10 here tonight.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jarvy on December 29, 2014, 06:54:28 pm
Had a good day, plenty of commercial done both wfp and trad, then 3 care homes done. -2 this morning, if it is colder tomorrow then might not be as good as today. Hope not  :-\
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: NWH on December 29, 2014, 08:33:01 pm
I don't know why everyone doesn't have a hot water heater now.

One days work and it's paid for itself.
it's not madness it's pathetic isn't it,when are some people going to see the light lol,it's not just the winter it's better to have hot you know lol
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: wfp master on December 29, 2014, 09:41:55 pm
 ::)roll
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Frankybadboy on December 29, 2014, 10:03:40 pm
sat at home feet up waiting for the 5th to come  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yawn



we found that in winter if you can keep the water going then we are ok,one reason and i havent heard any one say yet is,that using fan jets cause the water to freeze at brush head,we move back to pencil jets less chance of freezing when you stop  ;)
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 29, 2014, 10:24:19 pm
went out From 11 til  4pm temps were fine at a balmy 5celsius
2 more days to work then bye bye window cleaning until 2nd of feb :)
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: kempy on December 29, 2014, 10:38:55 pm
Good that you can do that Gary .
Common sense with the Weather usually being bad in January .

Do you go away , or just chill
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: david mark on December 29, 2014, 11:05:58 pm
Why will it be easier after 5th of Jan. Fit immersion heater in tank and use gas heater aswell could stay cold till March
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 29, 2014, 11:06:44 pm
A week in wales then join the missus in spain for a week then two
weeks on my own at home on the sofa eating digestives and the odd
day running and a couple of days ith my eldest fishing on the dorset
stour just outside Christchurch..cant wait :)
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Tom White on December 30, 2014, 12:00:23 am
A week in wales

For the love of beeby Jesus, why?  I mean I've got to, I live here, but you have a choice!!! :'(
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: kempy on December 30, 2014, 08:53:32 am
Where you based Gary
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Elfyn on December 30, 2014, 08:54:23 am
Tosh. You really need to look up the definition of the work "moderator".
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: dazmond on December 30, 2014, 09:02:16 am
And here's me thinking Gary was going away for a month in the sun! ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: deeege on December 30, 2014, 09:10:09 am
And here's me thinking Gary was going away for a month in the sun! ;D

Same here. Thought it was Thailand he was off to or was that somebody else?

Sat on my arris for a month, I'd be itching to get out working again.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 30, 2014, 09:16:48 am
A week in wales

For the love of beeby Jesus, why?  I mean I've got to, I live here, but you have a choice!!! :'(

Fishing is good in the wnion and Dee,sister inlaw has a converted chapel
in Snowdonia lovely countryside great place to do some running and spend
new year.

wife buggers off to Alicante for three weeks whih im forced to endure
a week of...then lovely peace for two weeks ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 30, 2014, 09:20:23 am
And here's me thinking Gary was going away for a month in the sun! ;D

Only a week in sun...rather be in Britain best place in the world to be
did plenty of travelling when I as younger...these days I don't need
to go far to feel content ;)
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 30, 2014, 09:20:54 am
Where you based Gary
Birmingham
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Window Lickers on December 30, 2014, 09:32:30 am
Where did you travel when you were younger Gary?
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 30, 2014, 09:50:11 am
America(didn't like) lots of western Europe and the what was the
comunist block(Russia Czechslovakia Poland Romania etc) in the 90s
New Zealand twice..Vietnam then my best mate died and I stopped travelling

Then met the present wife and suffered a succession of Greek island
beach holidays :(
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Window Lickers on December 30, 2014, 10:13:11 am
When was this, back in the 60's/70's?
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 30, 2014, 10:16:35 am
When was this, back in the 60's/70's?

cheeky Git ;D 80s/early 90s

Im nearly 47 not feking 57 ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Window Lickers on December 30, 2014, 10:19:00 am
 ;D

I did my travelling in the 80's, wondered if it might have been to the same of the world. I was in the Middle East mostly, Europe, and countries around the northern edge of the Med.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: gary999 on December 30, 2014, 10:35:10 am
;D

I did my travelling in the 80's, wondered if it might have been to the same of the world. I was in the Middle East mostly, Europe, and countries around the northern edge of the Med.

closest I got to the middle east was Turkey ;D..i spent lots of time in Europe
it was dirt cheap back then..get a british visitors passport £7.50 and disappear
for weeks on end ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jimiwindows on December 31, 2014, 04:39:48 pm

Y wfp shops???

why trad them when it takes a 3rd of the time with wfp
If you can wfp a shop faster than I can trad it ill give you £100 ill be done before you get your pole out  the van.
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Jonny 87 on December 31, 2014, 05:08:23 pm

Y wfp shops???

why trad them when it takes a 3rd of the time with wfp
If you can wfp a shop faster than I can trad it ill give you £100 ill be done before you get your pole out  the van.

(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s650/OnlyUseMeWFP/bc81b960af7c6e691ff3c578d7b65ef3_zpsdaafc6c4.jpg)



I have a few shops with this exact set up. All small individual Georgian cut up panes.

Do you want to pay me my £100 by cheque or bank transfer?

 ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Window Lickers on December 31, 2014, 05:13:39 pm

Y wfp shops???

why trad them when it takes a 3rd of the time with wfp
If you can wfp a shop faster than I can trad it ill give you £100 ill be done before you get your pole out  the van.

If you can trad a shop faster than I can with newspaper and vinegar ill give you £100 ill be done before you get your bucket out  the van.

Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jimiwindows on December 31, 2014, 06:26:02 pm

Y wfp shops???

why trad them when it takes a 3rd of the time with wfp
If you can wfp a shop faster than I can trad it ill give you £100 ill be done before you get your pole out  the van.

never seen a shop like this in west end of london.(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1420050322_the-shops-at-yacht-haven.jpg)
most look like this.

(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s650/OnlyUseMeWFP/bc81b960af7c6e691ff3c578d7b65ef3_zpsdaafc6c4.jpg)



I have a few shops with this exact set up. All small individual Georgian cut up panes.

Do you want to pay me my £100 by cheque or bank transfer?

 ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: jimiwindows on December 31, 2014, 06:37:43 pm


The last time i see a shop like that was on the high chaparral. ;D
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: JSMC on January 02, 2015, 08:12:42 pm
even with hot some days best to stay home ... throwing water onto very cold ground and will freeze to become a hazard ..... maybe im cautious but after fighting (and winning)(should post story one day) a false insurance claim for last 18+ months it makes you very aware to what can happen

Hi Ian
If you could post this story it would be very informative. I grit around doors and pathways of residential unless specifically told not to, but I wouldn't do shop fronts wfp in this weather TBH.

by gritting you are basically saying there is a hazard there which has been caused by you. H&S is a minefield. In our old place we ha da guy fall even though we had placed grit in yard. By doing so we were admitting there was a hazard there. We done what we thought was enough but guy still won his case. we had signage and grit but there is not much els eyou can do.

Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: Window Lickers on January 02, 2015, 08:30:47 pm
And by not gritting you are ignoring your responsibilities. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to know when the ground is likely to be icey, you cant debate that,  whether you are responsible or not.


Your analogy if adopted by guys that dig up the road would discourage them putting bollards, signs and hazard tape round their work area because its then acknowledging that theres a risk.

Why did the guy fall? Did he trip over your signs, slip on the ice, get tangled in your hose?
Title: Re: Frozen
Post by: JSMC on January 02, 2015, 08:43:56 pm
i'm saying whether you grit or not you are odds on for getting blame. Saw too many cases lost over the years in previous job. you can do everything in your power and still lose. H&S is a feckin nightmare.