Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: H20cleaning on December 18, 2014, 10:03:46 am
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I have asked before but noone has ever had suggestions.
Basically i have a 300GPD r/o and the water trickles in the tank only making about 100-150Gpd.
It cant be the water pressure because when i unplug the microbore after pre filters the pressure causes water to spray everywhere.
I used to run a booster pump but for some reason the pump always cuts out now due to the pressure i think.
Its not the filters or membranes as they are only 3months old and i only make 1000lt of pure a week.
I did notice one of the rubber O seals on one of the pre filters has mishaped and looked like it might not get a good seal, could this be the problem as daft as it sounds
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What is your waste to pure ratio? In other words, how many liters of waste do you get when making one liter of pure?
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I dont know exactly but i will check later, at a guess i would say its pretty even to be honest. I have tried turning the flush tap etc nothing seems to speed up the flow.
I just cant understand how i used the same booster pump for a year with no issues and now it just cuts straight out when the pressure builds up
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Micro bore after your pre filters, I would say that's your problem its restricting the water flow into the R.O.
Either that or your restricting the waste water exiting the R.O. that might explain why there isn't more waste
when you turn the tap to flush.
But as your getting enough pressure through the pre filters then the problem must be somewhere after them.
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You should have a ratio of around 3 waste to 1 pure if you have an inline restrictor. on your waste.
The other issue could be that you have the wrong size membranes. 50 GPD membranes produce water very slowly.
If you take the 1/4" pipe off after the prefilters and if there is plenty of water coming out, then the problem will be after them.
I'm not sure how you tell which membrane is which but in the winter our 450 GPD would fill an IBC tank in about 28 hours at 40 psi tap pressure - no booster pump.
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Seank- i didnt mean microbore i meant 1/4 pipe lol
I did actually have the wrong membranes last time so i 100% know these are right, there is plent of pressure (mayby even to much) after pre filters then for some reason the water just trickles out just before resin ???
If i give colins water products a call do you think he will help? Thats where i bought them from
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Lee from collins has been pretty helpful when i've rang him
You say you have alot of pressure, do you have a pressure gauge to be sure?
When i moved house i thought my pressure was amazing, just looking at it...
Turns out it was only around 40psi, so on went the booster and i'm now at 80psi
Are you 100% you've plumbed it in properly?(i.e, do you have a membrane producing pure into the waste)
Check the tds from the mains, the waste pipe and pure, and then post on here just to make sure
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Replace the seals on the pre filters and get a proper booster pump if it cuts out its the pressure switch. so its sound like you have not got a booster pump but a pole pump as well as a blockage.
How much did you pay for your booster pump they are normally 24 volt pumps for a booster if its a 12 volt its wrong.
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Get rid of your 100 gpd membranes and call Gaps Water and replace with 3x 150 gpd membranes I produce more that that with 2 X150 gpd. Replace all the pre filter seals and all the pre filters. This will churn out the max your unit can and believe it will produce
Here is the link below
http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/AXEON-TF-1812-150--150-gpd-reverse-osmosis-membrane-1880.html
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What was it like before you changed the membranes? (you did take them out of the plastic bags didn't you?)
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Thanks for the help I will go out and do some water readings now.
The booster pump is one of them aquatec ones it worked superb for a year until I moved into this new house, and now it seems that the pressure is to much so the booster shuts off.
As for replacing membranes I have never had a issue With my 300gpd system because I only use 350 lt a day so just left ,my r/o on constantly! When the booster worked I was making far to much water.
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Replace the seals on the pre filters and get a proper booster pump if it cuts out its the pressure switch. so its sound like you have not got a booster pump but a pole pump as well as a blockage.
How much did you pay for your booster pump they are normally 24 volt pumps for a booster if its a 12 volt its wrong.
Its aquatec one pal its a plug in one not a shurflo 12v.
It worked perfectly until recently... It still does work but you can here is slowing down instead of running fast like it should, wich leads me to think its something to do with pressure
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really simple as said above you need a pressure gauge and all for £10 will tell you alot
saying you have good pressure means nothing ;)
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But what will a pressure gauge do? Doesnt that just read the pressure? That wouldnt make the pump work again. Surely the Booster pump would run on full power if there wasnt enough pressure? But the pump litrally runs for a minute then slows right down and cuts off
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My water ppm before r/o is 122ppm
After everything it is 000 i just changed resin last week
My just took all pre filters out and refitted them
Whay position do use have your flush tap?ainly open so the waste runs fast pr mainly closed so it trickles out
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Pump aside, the gauge will basically confirm the pressure you have at the moment as you say that you're not producing much (without the pump) and wondered if it was the membranes. If your pressure is low then chances are its nothing to do with ypur membranes
Pump wise, i very much doubt your pump isnt working as it cant handle the mains pressure...
If you know anyone with a pump it maybe worth trying theres as you might just have a dicky pump!
Check the connectors on the pump to the (i think its called) inverter box havent corroded if you leave outside...
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Pump aside, the gauge will basically confirm the pressure you have at the moment as you say that you're not producing much (without the pump) and wondered if it was the membranes. If your pressure is low then chances are its nothing to do with ypur membranes
Pump wise, i very much doubt your pump isnt working as it cant handle the mains pressure...
If you know anyone with a pump it maybe worth trying theres as you might just have a dicky pump!
Check the connectors on the pump to the (i think its called) inverter box havent corroded if you leave outside...
I was thiinking about asking a local windie to bring one round abd tey a different pump.
I dont know much about boosters but it was just funny how it seemed to struggle then cut out lol
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My water ppm before r/o is 122ppm
After everything it is 000 i just changed resin last week
My just took all pre filters out and refitted them
Whay position do use have your flush tap?ainly open so the waste runs fast pr mainly closed so it trickles out
Whats the reading before resin mate?(resin will take any ppm to 0)
On those r.o's the tap isnt for adjusting mate...fully closed for producing, fully open to flush
Get the guage and try someone elses pump is your best bet mate
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Does the pump have a pressure switch?
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My water ppm before r/o is 122ppm
After everything it is 000 i just changed resin last week
My just took all pre filters out and refitted them
Whay position do use have your flush tap?ainly open so the waste runs fast pr mainly closed so it trickles out
Whats the reading before resin mate?(resin will take any ppm to 0)
On those r.o's the tap isnt for adjusting mate...fully closed for producing, fully open to flush
Get the guage and try someone elses pump is your best bet mate
I know but for some reason when the tap is closed the waters really slow into the tank and to the waste... As soon as I open it their both faster ??? ???
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Remember the water temp has dropped recently, my production has halved due to this.
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Triple check you've plumbed it all in right, when closed you should have a lot more waste than pure especially if not using a booster
I'd give Lee a bell in the morning mate, he's pretty helpful with this sort of stuff
+1 @ david
mr willis may have a point, ive never checked my aquatec to see if it has a pressure switch!
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Its all plummed in right mate because i havne never changed anything in the 2 years of owning it(except membranes and filters)
But as for the flow... When the tap is open there is alot more flow both in the pure and the waste... And when close there both really slow lol so confusing, i know what ypur saying though because a few months ago if i messed with the valve the system would fore out waste water very fast
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When closed the waste should be pretty fast and the pure much slower.
Are you sure you haven't put it into the flush position?
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When closed the waste should be pretty fast and the pure much slower.
Are you sure you haven't put it into the flush position?
That's what I'm saying mate it's in the flush position now but it's making pure faster
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That's my setup, I took the booster pump out at this point
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I can't tell from your pic but I did wonder if after moving house maybe the feed pipe has been swapped for the delivery pipe and your forcing water backwards through the ro? Long shot I know. Looks like a 200gpd unit you've got there so it must have 150 gpd membranes fitted if you say it's 300 gpd. Maybe the membranes aren't 150gpd?
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I can't tell from your pic but I did wonder if after moving house maybe the feed pipe has been swapped for the delivery pipe and your forcing water backwards through the ro? Long shot I know. Looks like a 200gpd unit you've got there so it must have 150 gpd membranes fitted if you say it's 300 gpd. Maybe the membranes aren't 150gpd?
Its the 300gpd from collins water products mate, and as for membranes i had the wrongs ones last time so this time they are 110%right lol
If it is my water pressure then is there anything you can do to speed up hose pressure?
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www.smart-water.co.uk (http://www.smart-water.co.uk) ; a control box that switches off your RO and booster pump when your tanks are full saves flooding and the life of your pump :)
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Hi Mate, I had the same problem, very slow production.
8/10 hrs to make 200 litres.
Mine is a 300gpd unit like yours.
Firstly the booster pump you have is the same as the one I had.
The supplier of the ro said its not the right pump for a 300gpd unit.
It only puts the water through at 40 not the required60 psi.
I changed mine to an EChem pump from Vyair.
Also tap pressure will shoot out of a 1/4 inch pipe. I got soaked without the pump on but my mains pressure was only 20psi.
I had to mount the new pump before the prefilters as I was getting big air probs.
Did u bleed out the air when you installed it? Air can stop the pump.
anyway result for me was that i now produce 200 litres in 4 hours. Heaven.
If you do upgrade your pump I would buy their oil filled pressure guage as well. Gives a brilliant steady reading.
Hope this helps.
Chris.
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Hi Mate, I had the same problem, very slow production.
8/10 hrs to make 200 litres.
Mine is a 300gpd unit like yours.
Firstly the booster pump you have is the same as the one I had.
The supplier of the ro said its not the right pump for a 300gpd unit.
It only puts the water through at 40 not the required60 psi.
I changed mine to an EChem pump from Vyair.
Also tap pressure will shoot out of a 1/4 inch pipe. I got soaked without the pump on but my mains pressure was only 20psi.
I had to mount the new pump before the prefilters as I was getting big air probs.
Did u bleed out the air when you installed it? Air can stop the pump.
anyway result for me was that i now produce 200 litres in 4 hours. Heaven.
If you do upgrade your pump I would buy their oil filled pressure guage as well. Gives a brilliant steady reading.
Hope this helps.
Chris.
This advice is perfect! I am ordering a pressure gauge to make sure its low psi... Then if thats the case i will order a correct booster.
How much was your booster pump?
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I've got the aquatec 8800 booster, boosts mine to 80psi (you can adjust the pressure boost with a small allen key on the pressure switch)
I know you say it's fine but by the way you've described the pure/waste ratio's when your tap is closed, it really does sound like you've plumbed it a little wrong when changing membranes (i.e you have some pure possibly going to waste and visa versa, its why i said to check tds of your waste and pure when the tap is closed. If they're similar then thats whats happened)
I was told to always mount booster between pre filters and membranes although i know others that mount it before the whole r.o with mo issues...
Only other thing i can think of (its a long shot) do you use a hozelock with a valve on your mains tap?
Mate of mine struggled to produce through his merlin a while back. After many hours trying to work out what it was, it turned out the valve wasn't fully open!!!
Hope you get it sorted mate
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I can't tell from your pic but I did wonder if after moving house maybe the feed pipe has been swapped for the delivery pipe and your forcing water backwards through the ro? Long shot I know. Looks like a 200gpd unit you've got there so it must have 150 gpd membranes fitted if you say it's 300 gpd. Maybe the membranes aren't 150gpd?
I'm incline to agree. He has 2 membrane housings. I won't be surprised if the membranes were 150GPD and they have been replaced with lower capacity units.
The 150 GPD membranes just fit into the housing with out much of a gap. The 75 GPD membranes I had before they were upgraded where much smaller in diamt.
There is something about the way that the membrane housings are connected at the back that just doesn't look right. Unfortunately the photo isn't very clear.
Please can you take another couple of photos, one of the inlets and one of the outlets.
Also, I know that our water on Teesside isn't good, but that sediment filter is very red.
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Looks like you can adjust the aquatec, wish i'd known that. Got a spare pump now!
I paid about 95 for an EChen EC203-300a.
Think the pressure guage was about 15 both from vyair.
Sam at vyair is really knowlegable
Check everything all the posts have suggested.
Mine used to just drip without a booster.
How long did it used to take you to make 200 litres before you moved?
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I will make a video of how the water is produces and showing were the pipes go etc, i know its a pain for use but thanks for the help!
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http://youtu.be/pCWSYS6SA24
A video of my full setup showing everything.
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http://youtu.be/pCWSYS6SA24
A video of my full setup showing everything.
Video is 'private' so I can't see it.
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Try it now mate
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Isnt it nice that so many try to help when we have a problem on this forum, I got loads of help as well and was able to sort my problem.
I am sure together the answer will come! one thing is certain its brilliant to come home, switch the water on and have it done before you go to bed.
I had a couple of weeks of problems before sorting it and so know how you feel.
My water flow with the same pump was the same as yours, just about a flow.
Reading your post again something was causing your booster to cut out.
I would consider air in the system.
Try unscrewing your pre filter canisters until the water runs out of the top then do them up again, start nearest the supply ie sediment then carbon etc.
Is the system noisy?
If you can get it running with the booster then try and up the pressure on the pump like someone suggested earlier with the allen key.
To me your set up looks to be connected right.
Good luck.
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http://youtu.be/pCWSYS6SA24
A video of my full setup showing everything.
(Those prefilters want changing mate, the first filter should be white!!)
Its odd....everything looks ok to me (tap should be fully shut)
Was the vid with the pump on? Production looks slow but not sure if thats about right for a 300gpd (mines 450)
Re pump shutting off, it might be air although i've run mine accidentally with no water running through before and its been ok...
Is your flow ok running to the r.o and after the prefilters?
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Try it now mate
Please can you do another of the waste pipe, tap and water rate out of that please.
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I've gone out and resurrected my old 450GPD unit. Had to replace a pipe as is has been tucked away for over 2 years now and has perished. Another slow drip from a John Guest fitting.
Water pressure 55psi - no booster
I've filled two 4 pint 2.27 litre plastic milk containers at the same time, one with pure and the other with waste.
10.46am test began.
10.48 and 50 seconds - waste container full.
10.51 pure container full.
1 new sediment filter, 1 CAG filter, 3 x 150GPD very old membranes and then a 10" resin container.
Pure produced - 0.45lpm
Time to fill 1000 liter IBC tank = 37 hours.
I would imagine your figures should be 2/3rds of those.
But compared to my 4040, this is painfully slow.
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http://youtu.be/pCWSYS6SA24
A video of my full setup showing everything.
(Those prefilters want changing mate, the first filter should be white!!)
Its odd....everything looks ok to me (tap should be fully shut)
Was the vid with the pump on? Production looks slow but not sure if thats about right for a 300gpd (mines 450)
Re pump shutting off, it might be air although i've run mine accidentally with no water running through before and its been ok...
Is your flow ok running to the r.o and after the prefilters?
Honest mate the pre filters change colour after like a week the waters crap round here, and the pump wont work at all now even when disconected from my filters ? Wich is odd... It makes a small noise then stops.
Im using 300ltrs a day of pure and only making about 200... So the tank by end of the week is really low, and the bottom 10inch cant be used because my transfer pump cuts off at a certain level
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my transfer pump cuts off at a certain level
Secure the float to the pumps electrical cable using cable ties to keep it upright.
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If your pumps gone forever we can arrange for you to have my spare aquatec. Have to sort carriage. Let me know
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Pressure switch stuck?