Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Simon Gerrard on December 08, 2014, 05:52:03 pm
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So what's the story with Micelles technology?
I feel as if I'm micelling out on something😃
Sorry, couldn't resit that one.
In English please.
Simon
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think it’s 1-4 nanometers mork and mindy Mork’s greeting Na-Nu Na-Nu
hope it helps.!!!! ??? ??? ??? ;D
yoda Len
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Well that's cleared that one up then.
Thanks, Len ;D
Simon
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The lack or response to this question highlights the problem with micelles technology..... Nobody really know how it works :-\
we all have little stories that try and explain it but that's all.
And the problem is if we don't even understand how it works how can we know how it will react either other chemicals? Some say the mist a colloidal scrub it then if it's really bad give it a mist of MS.........but how does MS & colloids react together?
What about applying protector on top of colloids? will it interfere with the fluorocarbons ? Who know??.?
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Hi All,
Colloidal Cleaning Products are something many people fail to grasp because of the way that they work. We started using the Oleonix range six months ago and the results were so good we have dropped other products and use them to clean a wide range of flooring/items. the description from the Oleonix Website reads:
"When dirt adheres to a surface, the surface tension created resists the efforts of standard cleaning agents to remove it. The chemistry behind the Oleonix range utilises micriolysis whereby the active agents penetrate through the surface tension and penetrate to the core of dirt to break the bonds holding the dirt to whatever the surface is. The released dirt is then easily removed by flushing, rinsing, suction, extraction or microfibre absorption-extraction leaving surfaces so clean they resist the build up of fresh dirt."
Hope this helps
Gary
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We've heard all this before.
You can't reinvent the wheel :)
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To reinvent the wheel is to duplicate a basic method that has already previously been created or optimized by others.
;D ;D ;D
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Just found this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6EdXlQuVQY
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Hi All,
Colloidal Cleaning Products are something many people fail to grasp because of the way that they work. We started using the Oleonix range six months ago and the results were so good we have dropped other products and use them to clean a wide range of flooring/items. the description from the Oleonix Website reads:
"When dirt adheres to a surface, the surface tension created resists the efforts of standard cleaning agents to remove it. The chemistry behind the Oleonix range utilises micriolysis whereby the active agents penetrate through the surface tension and penetrate to the core of dirt to break the bonds holding the dirt to whatever the surface is. The released dirt is then easily removed by flushing, rinsing, suction, extraction or microfibre absorption-extraction leaving surfaces so clean they resist the build up of fresh dirt."
Hope this helps
Gary
So Gary you have no idea how it works either :D
Oleonix give a perfect scenario of how colloids work, but we don't live in a perfect world unlike normal detergents that use very basic chemical reactions that can be messed with but will still do their basic function micelles rely on a delicate set process which can easily be upset by Exterior influences,
Most of the worlds cleaning industry manufacturers use detergents because they work, not because they are behind the times and don't know about colloids they know about them but also know they are not reliable enough to use.
Colloids offer a niche product to suit companies looking to be different and who are willing to accept their limitations
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Mike,
I know perfectly well how they work. Probably a bit beyond you.
Left it to the best people to explain that, the people who make them. It is explained in basic terms so people could understand the basic effects.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi All,
Colloidal Cleaning Products are something many people fail to grasp because of the way that they work. We started using the Oleonix range six months ago and the results were so good we have dropped other products and use them to clean a wide range of flooring/items. the description from the Oleonix Website reads:
"When dirt adheres to a surface, the surface tension created resists the efforts of standard cleaning agents to remove it. The chemistry behind the Oleonix range utilises micriolysis whereby the active agents penetrate through the surface tension and penetrate to the core of dirt to break the bonds holding the dirt to whatever the surface is. The released dirt is then easily removed by flushing, rinsing, suction, extraction or microfibre absorption-extraction leaving surfaces so clean they resist the build up of fresh dirt."
Hope this helps
Gary
Sorry Gary, are you saying that these products get the carpet cleaner than conventional chemicals? And if so that could imply that users of conventional cc chemicals aren't actually getting carpets as clean as they look?
Simon
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Simon,
Everyone has their own opinion on what products they use and the success they achieve with them determines whether they continue to carry on using them. Nobody is suggesting that conventional carpet cleaning chemicals aren't getting the carpets as clean as they look, but colloids can produce a very high standard of clean.
They are also not unreliable. There are a lot of colloidal products out there and they are mixed differently to produce results to deal with issues such as grease etc. This bias then gives you products to deal with issues such as grease, just as conventional chemicals such as enzymes do.
The reasons that lots of chemical companies choose not to produce them are more down to issues such as costs, not reliability.
Gary
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So it's not a step forward quality wise, just a different approach, chemically speaking?
Simon
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Simon,
I would have a try merely to satisfy your curiosity. I know you have a great deal of experience in the industry and have used different equipment/chemicals.
WE found that the items we cleaned have stayed cleaner for longer (based upon carpet maintenance we carry out every three months) We also found it much easier to clean upholstery. The combination of microfibre and colloids work very well as the negative ions of the products work well with the positive charge from microfibre making it an ideal attraction.
Again it is a personal preference.
Gary
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I think the product is plant derived surfactant or detergent .
The benifit being renewable sources , biodegradable etc .
The whole colloid /micelles thing it seems may be just blurb to sell the product in that from what i read ( and i didnt research it much ) colloids and micelles relate to ' regular syntheic ' surfactant also . And any surfactant and cleaning process could be made sound complicated at a microstructure level .
In a ' detergent ' mix , ie a combination of several chemical products . Each combine to optomize cleaning in all situations . If the water is hard a softener takes care of that , of the temp is low something compensates , if there is a certain type of dirt present , a specific or combined component targets that .
Plant surfactant alone cannot target all the various scenarios like a detergent mix can IMO .
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Hi John,
These products require quite a bit of research.
The products we use are synthesized products. With a colloidal cleaner these really small particles ( “micelles”) wander around in the water that you have mixed it in with and eventually they collide with the dirt or grease you are trying to remove from whatever you are cleaning. When the micelles crash into the dirt, they chip a small piece of it off and push it into the water. This is occurring both rapidly and constantly and in a short space of time all the dirt is removed from the surface. Just as importantly, the micelles stop the pieces of dirt or grease in the water from rejoining so they cannot clump back on to the surface that has been cleaned. This is totally different to the way soap and detergents clean. They tend to stick to the dirt and grease like iron filings sticking to a magnet, then float around in the water carrying the globule with them.
Again there are different colloidal products to deal with different issues, just as detergents do. They are unaffected by water hardness and low temperatures. Higher temperature speed up the process. Colloids require time to work so dwell is important.
An idea of the effectiveness of the products is that a facilities cleaning company is using one product to clean all the student accommodation in a university. The trials were so successful they are extending it to many more within the portfolio.
Again we are down to personal preferences, some people like microsplitters, etc...
Gary
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Gary any surfactant can be in a colloidial suspension , Right ?
and they are capable of forming micelles ...
like its says here ...
'The characteristics of surfactants cause the hydrophobic component to be drawn together to form micelles.� This allows the surfactants to form a coating around a suspended material.�'
http://wwwcourses.sens.buffalo.edu/ce457_527/ce457_pro/g11_doc.htm
What makes your surfactant , colloids and micelles different ,? and do have a link that would explain the difference between the two ?
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WTF are you lot talking about?
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Colin,
We have no effing idea ;D
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Hi Guys, there is a saying from the great William Shakespeare that goes
Our doubts are traitors,
and make us lose the good we oft might win,
by fearing to attempt.
The reason i quote that saying is for me when i was first introduced to colloid chemistry 12 years ago i had my doubts and really did not take the technology to be anything different, luckily for me the guy sent me some products to try out, i have been in the cleaning industry for over 30 years and after 10 minutes of testing with this technology i was hooked and have been ever since, now i could write pages and pages of information about the features and benefits of working with colloidal micelles technology but i think if anyone wants to make an informed decision on the technology they should contact a supplier who promotes the technology purchase some product do their own testing and get educated about one of this centuries most promising advances in environmental science. there are plenty of janitorial suppliers in the UK who can help you to make an informed decision on these safe cleaning solutions.
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Good post Tadgh,
As you have stated the proof comes from personal experience with testing then application.
Lets leave it there folks.
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I think the Micelles cleaners are great...
I used them for the last 4 years, and never had any problems, and was very impressed with the results. And I cleaned LM only...
It is down to the old saying...
"It's not what you've got, it's the way that you use it"
;D
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This is not new technology these were invented in the 1930's. We sell Bio Clean which is a colloidal cleaner. Basically they work in exactly thew same way as detergents do except on a smaller molecular level.
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Let's call it 'old technology' as complex detergent mixes are developed in the 70s :D
yes I think that's mostly it ,a detergent where the micelles are a bit smaller than usual , probably increasing surface area and efficiently to some degree .
But there seems to be marketing waffle from the get go with this ..For example the use of the term nanotechnology , they have chosen this term to confuse it with solid nanotechnology whereas in the case of detergent it just refers to the size measurement of the micelles ....I believe many other micelles are also in the nanometer measurement range .
So basically these words ...nanotechnology ..colloidal ...micelles ...are chosen so as to arm every reselling waffler with an eco site with a few convincing sounding words to put on their websites or to waffle over the phone or on forums to potential buyers.
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This is not new technology these were invented in the 1930's. We sell Bio Clean which is a colloidal cleaner. Basically they work in exactly thew same way as detergents do except on a smaller molecular level.
I have to say when I finished carpet cleaning Bio clean was my go to colloidal for minging carpets.
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WTF are you lot talking about?
Basically someone's trying to flog some old toot.
HTH.