Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Andy Hogarth on April 16, 2006, 04:52:29 pm
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I'm looking into various training courses, Of course the ncca and iicrc spring to mind but will these be too much for a complete carpet cleaning novice or are they intended for such?
Would it be practical to do a hands on course like extracta as this is near to where I live so convenient, then progress onto the others with the knowledge gained from the extracta course?
Also would the extracta course be practical as I don't plan to buy their machine, is it just beneficial to prospective buyers?
Any other courses for us up north?
Cheers
Andy
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I havent been on an N.C.C.A. course but if you go on an I.I.C.R.C. course you will then be able to join the N.C.C.A., suggesting the I.I.C.R.C. course the better of the two. Having said that they are both designed for entrance level people as after all it is usually those people attending the courses. I know not all. Also you can take the I.I.C.R.C. qualifications world wide whereas you cant the N.C.C.A. I am not knocking the N.C.C.A. its just the I.I.C.R.C. has more clout so to speak. Best, Dave.
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Andy,
I have done both the Extracta course and Four Prochem courses. The Extracta course was carried out on a Saturday and i travelled from South Wales to attend this one, with hotel accommodation thrown in. I did not have to pay for any of these courses as i had been made redundant in 2002.
The Extracta one could be described as not very good by some people, but my personal opinion was that the guy who did the training for them, Ken of kenclean systems was very knowledgeable and the course was very hands on. He did practicle demonstrations and we could have a go. I think there was only six on this course, so everyone got to have a go. I was so impressed that i eventually spent £5k on equipment and had no problems with it. They might not look like other machines, but they are a means to earn money.
The Prochem courses are also very good, but i get the impression that they are rehearsed over and over again and push their products at every opportunity. Again with Prochem they set a standard in our industry, and i heavily use their chemicals because i know i can trust them. I did have a chemical pack from Extracta, but they are not marked, or they were not at the time, with their ph level, so i was never really sure.
Both courses provide you with lunch. Prochem gives you lunch and a desert and Extracta sends somebody down the chippie.
I would try the Extracta course as it's near you, then go out and clean some carpets. When the money comes in, do the prochem ones or even ncca or the other one. If you can afford it as well, buy the Extracta carpet manual. They are expensive but you will learn from this as you go on.
Hope this helps
Dave
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Andy,
Take a look at this one (http://www.extracta.co.uk/training.htm).
As far as IICRC course is concerned I can tell that for some people with no knowledge or experience the course could be just to much to start from. I have recently attended such course and can say that there were similar statements from newbies who attended the course, some of them decided not to take the exam.
IICRC course is good, but from my point of view you can learn it from a book. However if you pass IICRC exam you can use there logo, which is sign of competence. But again IICRC is an American stuff, membership of the NCCA is British recognition of of competence. I think that for marketing NCCA logo is much better, I am not even sure if IICRC logo mentioned in the Yellow pages.
My personal view is the best course is when you can spend some time with an experienced carpet cleaner.
Regards,
Arthur
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Yes Arthur, an experienced carpet cleaner, so i would still advise the Extracta one first. Up close and personal.
Dave
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The iicrc course is theory based whilst the ncca and manufacturers courses are more hands on,with the ncca having a multichoice exam at the end, having started up recently myself i have attended some manufacturers courses and am booked to go on the ncca course next month.
I personally have chosen to leave the iicrc for the moment as i cant see the point in doing a theory based course and exam when I am in my first year when hands on practical advice is more relevant, would you let a surgeon cut you open with qualifications to his name but not one operation behind him?
A bit extreme perhaps but it gets my point across,
Andy
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Yes Arthur, an experienced carpet cleaner, so i would still advise the Extracta one first. Up close and personal.
Dave
...Take a look at this one (http://www.extracta.co.uk/training.htm)...
Dave, ::) I am not knocking Extractor's course. ;)
Regards,
Arthur
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Cheers for all the replys,
Arthur was this the first course you did and did you pass the exam?
Andy A, did you start up after doing the manufacturer courses?, did you have much previous experience?
Dave, Was the extracta course constantly trying to sell their product and only focusing on the machine or did you learn some universal carpet cleaning principals too?
The extracta course does send someone to the chippy too ;D ;D ;D
Cheers again
Andy
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...Arthur was this the first course you did and did you pass the exam?...
Andy,
It was my first course and I enjoyed it. I have taken the exam, should know the result by the end / middle of May.
Regards,
Arthur
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Just a side note on the subject. The I.I.C.R.C. doesnt promote one product over another which I happen to prefer. Although I agree that its courses could be a little more on the practical side it is not intended for it to be so. As far as its difficulty in taking I am lobbying with quite a few others as to making the exam much more difficult to do. In its present form it is far too easy. It is proposed that the questions be as they are to a degree but not multiple choices to answer. The way it is now it can be worked out as a process of elimination to get most of the answers correct. By just asking the same questions and then us having to come up with the answer with out the multi-choice would therefore fail a lot more than it does now. May not look good but it would raise the standard of us all as cleaners. After all we actually need no qualifications at all to be carpet cleaners and I feel that is a mistake. I havent been on manufacturers courses so cant make an informed comment..... If we needed to be "legally" qualified to clean then that would meen there would be less of us cleaning and so raise not only the standard of the cleaning but also the prices charged. Best, Dave.
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Andy,
I started up without any training, just what i had read in a few books and on the internet but soon learned that there was much more involved than spraying chemicals into the carpet and sucking them out, which is when i started going on a couple of manufacturers courses, looking back i was lucky that i didnt ruin anything along the way,since ive attended the courses ive learned which jobs to walk away from and a lot of techniques to make jobs easier, not to mention the fact that my results have improved to a standard that im now happy with,the next step as i mentioned for me is to do the ncca course to give credibility to my services in the eyes of prospective customers.
The iicrc is on my agenda (as are others) but from a relative newcomers point of view there are better ways of spending my budget, hands on experience can teach you a lot if you have the right information from the start,but, in my opinion starting out on a solely theory based course is the hard way to do it,
Andy
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Arthur,
I know that you are not knocking the Extracta course. What i am saying is that they are hands on training people and they give unbiased training without pushing their products on anybody.
My personal experience was that i did the Extracta course in July 2002, then i went out and started carpet and upholstery cleaning for 2 months before i did the Prochem upholstery, 2 day carpet, hard floor and sales course. As i said earlier, i was lucky because the course fees, petrol and a £100 a night hotel bill was paid for me by Elwa, the Welsh training agency. So in all i would think they gave me in the region of £800 in all. However i have never received any other financial assistance to buy equipment.
The point i am making is the cost of courses will prove expensive when you first start, so pick the right one first, then earn some money before doing some more.
So Extracta to me seems the ideal one.
Dave
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Andy, why I understand what it is you are saying about the sugeon.......would you want a surgeion to cut you if he didnt know what was underneath what he was cutting. Not only that but a surgeon knows his theory years before he or she cuts anyone. Not only that but at evey surgeons start point they would have had to cut someone with not having an operation behind them. Best, Dave.
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Dave, both manufacturers and the ncca courses cover carpet construction, maybe not in the detail that the iicrc does but enough to give sufficient knowledge to start with, as i have stated before in this thread I'm not knocking the iicrc course, and i intend to sit it in the future, the question about training being asked is from a newcomer, the reason i mentioned the manufacturers courses was because they are more hands on,which i feel is more important when starting up,as a point of interest surgeons tend to master their butchery skills on corpses donated to medical schools, it tends to save mistakes when they come to do the job "live" for the first time, also they would sit in on as many operations as possible and when they start weilding the knife they are not just left to it because they've got the qualifications, they would be supervised, although their trade is slightly better regulated than carpet cleaning ;D, Andy
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Just to let you know we will be running training courses in the near future. Hopefully will be full hands on with the chance to use various equipment. Hope to be up and running by June-July.
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Andy, thanks for your comments. I wanst knocking the N.C.C.A. course or any other as, as I said I havent been on any others, only the I.I.C.R.C ones. Just that the I.I.C.R.C. has more clout. Coming from the U.S. to here I automatically could become a member of the N.C.C.A. Going from here to the U.S. being in the N.C.C.A. wouldnt give you access to the I.I.C.R.C. Best, Dave.
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Dave, the iicrc may have more clout within the industry but within the UK few householders have heard of either them or any other trade body, I at present don't belong to any organisations (although I am booked for the NCCA course and exam next month)and have never been asked by customers if I am a member of either,I can see that it would be in everyone's interest if these bodies promoted themselves to the general public so that there would at least appear to be an industry standard nationally, Andy
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oh ok, that makes a lot more sense. In the U.S. although it has taken years to do the public are far more aware that they need their carpets cleaned at least once a year and that is because of the recommendations of both Shaw and the like in conjunction with the I.I.C.R.C. Maybe over here we should take note, it would make life for us so much easier. I have business both sides of the water so the I.I.C.R.C. works for me. I am in the N.C.C.A. but like you said most people dont know of either association nor that their carpets need cleaning. Best, Dave.
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Having looked back over my last 50 survey forms it works out that my average client has their carpets cleaned every six and a half years, this figure was arrived at discarding over 50% who didn't know when they were fitted or last cleaned, some have been down over 20 years before getting their first clean, now imagine if these people actually had them done when they should, the percentage of repeat custom would be up through the roof, when talking to customers i try to give them a guideline on how often they should have them cleaned, and the standard reply, "you would say that because its more money in your pocket"
Now imagine the same message shouted from the rooftops by a nationally recognised organisation, okay, the majority will still carry on regardless but slowly people would get the message and this could open up the market.
Having read some of the comments made on the forum regarding allergies on channel 4 (but not having viewed it myself) it would appear that nothing has been mentioned about the health benefits of having your carpets and soft furnishings regularly cleaned, if a national body were shouting loud enough then maybe the programmes researchers would have heard of them and gone to them for their angle on the topic, in turn more publicity could have been gained for everyone in the field, worth thinking about,
Andy
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Just to let you know we will be running training courses in the near future. Hopefully will be full hands on with the chance to use various equipment. Hope to be up and running by June-July
Keep us posted on this mate, thats when i'll be looking to do my first course, I'll aslo get that grace 5020 demo in ;D
Cheers
Andy
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Has anyone done the NCCA course lately - when I did it (about 6 years ago) it was complete theory, is it more hands on now?
When it comes to the NCCA and IICRC from the customers point of view - rarely do I come accross any customers who've heard of either!
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I notice a lot of people mentioning that their customers dont know who the NCCA and the IICRC are, and to be honest why would they? i didnt!. Its up to (in part) its members to educate the customer as to who they are when selling them selves. Im not for a second saying that if you havent done the NCCA or IICRC course that you arent competent but i would say that its a benefit you can sell you customer if you can inform them that you are a member of a professional organisation. Think of it this way, would you expect to pay more for corgi registered plumber and would you let a non corgi registered plumber change you boiler?, if professional organisations within the industry can get the same level of publicity as corgi do them im sure it wont be long before members will see real benefits, but the members need to help push this. I.E if you are a member of the NCCA or IICRC or if you have passed the Flood School or if you have recieved training from EXtracta, Prochem, Woosafe, BIC's or whoever, you should shout it from the rooftops for your own benefit and for the benefit of other carpet cleaners who have recognised the importance of educating themselves and associating themselves with profesional bodies.
Dene
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Good post Dene.
Myself and 2 other NCCA members are talking about organizing something in
perhaps, Edinburgh? Its too much hassle and expense to travel to the usual venues down south.
We recognize the benefits as a marketing tool for sure, big time. I find that when the customer has the certificate in there hands, the jobs mine. It would also be good to actually meet with other members and to share experiences with.
If anyone fancies a trip to Edinburgh, mail me with your ideas of what you would like to be included in the day.
info@capitalcarpetcare.co.uk
Cheers
Rab
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Rabby
Another excellent example of this is a friend of mine a joiner by trade but makes his money walls and floor tiling, he recently became a qualified member of the Guild of master craftsmen, hes not the best salesman in the world and he is expensive, but he tells me that when customer mentions the price he flashes his certificate and takes a date for the work to be done, he does then off course back up his promises with excellent workman ship. The point is customers feel safer if they know that they are paying for a recognised tradesman rather than someone who has just bought a henry and a karcher and reckon then can do the job.
It is my aim to be a recognised and trained member of each of the associations out there as i feel my customers desrerve the best, they will of coaurse have to pay for it though! ;D
Dene
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Aqua magic, what do you mean by " a qualified member of the guild of master craftsman" as i am sure you are aware , this is not a particularly great trade organisition ,for a variety of reasons, formost practicly anybody can join, no matter what trade you are involved with.
I beleive the only criteria, for been a member is, pay your money, and a couple of refrences, "and we know how anybody can get around that one" and i do beleive that a vast majority of the general public are now aware of this guild, and its downfalls, highlited by many consumer tv programmes.
after all plumbers, builders, leckies, joiners, masons, roofers, tilers, tarmac layers, etc, etc, etc and yes c/c too .
i see endless vans with the guilds logo on, and a mobile number only, thats in itself speaks volumes.
Dont get me wrong, I am not implying your freind is a cowboy or that the majority of its members are, I dare say there are many a good tradesman that are members, but in my opinion , not for c/c or for me
Geoff