Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve Chapman on December 02, 2014, 07:36:30 pm
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Hi,
My guys cleaned a suite today, looked fairly standard grey suite, but later in the day while drying it has turned quite pink ?
Never had this happen before in all the years I've been cleaning, remember reading somewhere this could be an indicator dye problem or perhaps a reaction with protector ?
Ill try an upload a picture ?
any ideas ?
regards
steve
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Spray with diluted bicarbonate of soda and it should return to it's normal colour. Pretest of course to ensure that it works.
Had one of these many years ago. The suite was quite expensive but all was well after treating with bicarb.
Yes it is an indicator dye apparently......but why an indicator dye should be in upholstery is beyond me.
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Thanks, i was thinking that was the case and it could be rectified, will give it a go tomorrow,
Cheers
Steve
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It is an indicator dye, why it's called that I don't know it just the fabrics reaction to neutral-acid based cleaning agents...... never happens with alkaline cleaners
That's why alkaline treatments reverse it, you can test if it's a indicator dye by touching it with a high ph chemical like ammonia or something like crafters Champion it immediately disappears.
You been unlucky I've seen 2 in 20yrs
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Even Craftex Champion
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Hi Guys
The remedy is correct.
Indicator dye is a misleading description.
It is pH sensitive so that it could be used to indicate roughly the pH like indicator papers but in this case it is just a by product of the cleaning process.
Cheers
Doug
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What would be the correct dilution rate for the bicarb?
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What would be the correct dilution rate for the bicarb?
1 - 7
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Exactly same happened to me a couple of weeks ago, majority is suite fine but just 1 arm turned ping very expensive suite so was bricing it a bit.
Spoke to Richard at chem spec and pointed me down the ammonia route using one of their spotters (does say on bottle that it reverses acid pinking) just blotted it on using a towel and gone customer was mighty impressed and emphasised the point of using a professional instead rug doctors etc.
Chem spec see great and Richards knoledge Is fantastic, certainly got me out of a sticky spot.
John
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Give it a decent wetting, it's quite amazing the colour will return to your face it's quite instant.
Shaun
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1-7 ?
Sorry if that's being thick but what proportion of bi carb to a litre of water.?
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The problem with using ammonia is it absolutely stinks :-\
I would mix 15mls of bicarbonate in a 1 lt spotter bottle and start there as a test
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The problem with using ammonia is it absolutely stinks :-\
get yourself some NI-712. Couple puffs of this when using smelly chems like ammonia or sod met problem gone. Great on smelly wool carpets too.
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Have treated the whole suite with bicarbonate of soda solution and it has probably rectified 80% of it, they phoned today to say there
were still some pink patches which I expected so will go back and treat them, but they have said the arms and back parts look like a
beige colour now & not grey ?
Is this still because of the pink hue or could it be from the solution Ive used ?
I dont want to put too much more on if its causing another problem ?
Will have another look tomorrow but just want to be armed with the right things so i can reassure them rather than prolonging it any longer,
Thanks
Steve
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You do read some bull on this forum, save the bi-carb for baking you muppets. Where on earth do you lot get all this s**t from? ::)roll
Looks like it’s down to its primary dye. I would guess that it’s been very near or touching an excessive heat source like radiators or some other form of heat. Customers try all types of things in an attempt to dry out cushions frames ect.
Another cause could be that the dye was possibly unstable and you have hit it with too much alkali and stripped it to its primary pigment of the dye, that obviously been pink.
I would clean the whole thing again with only fresh tap water (no pre spray) and finish with a light mist of acid rinse.
Chances are, the damage was done when it dried out, so contact your insurance or pay them out and move on.
Pete
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And that's the biggest load of s**t so far........ glad you are keeping with the spirit of the topic.
Best to ignore your full post as reading your answer you know F all about this problem
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Mike,
Not one person has asked him how or with what he cleaned it with. So if he had cleaned it with high pH he's making the situation far worse by putting baking soda on the thing.
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Cleaned with prochem pre spray gold, the suite is fairly new & wasn't very dirty at all.
Rinsed with fibre & fabric rinse
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Mike,
Not one person has asked him how or with what he cleaned it with. So if he had cleaned it with high pH he's making the situation far worse by putting baking soda on the thing.
if you recognised the problem you would know it's caused by the fabric being effected by an acid based cleaner, if he had rinsed with a high alkaline cleaner more than likely it would'nt have happened.
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Ok, is the sofa a Laura Ashley?
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Pete,
Its definitley not been near any high heat, it wasn't cleaned with an alkaline solution and it has respnded well to the bicarbonate of soda.
I've done a general search on internet and it seems this is a one of those rare times where an acidic based cleaner reacts to the material and turns it pink, usually always reversible with the bicarbonate fo soda solution.
The first one in 20 years of cleaning I've come across, hopefully the last.
Steve
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Pete if you go to the search facility you'll find that this has been talked about before and rectified by bicarbonate of soda, Steve you'll need another application it will eventually rectify.
Shaun
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And that's the biggest load of s**t so far........ glad you are keeping with the spirit of the topic.
Best to ignore your full post as reading your answer you know F all about this problem
Mike - got to say as a moderator you really do cross the line
You expect the members to keep their decorum and post in a positive manner and yet you speak to people in the way you do
If you expect it of others, maybe you should lead the way and put a lid on yourself occasionally
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I mirrored his writing style & use of words to make a point, not unnecceary considering his post had insulted every member who had tried to help previously,
But if my post injured your high level of decorum & positivity then get a life you sad git... I mean I deeply apologies ;)
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I would echo Mikes reply, as this isn't a common problem, but bicarb does rectify the pink staining, as I had this problem once about ten years ago, I think it was Derek bolton who came up with the idea and he is God in my oppinion as far as carpet and upholstery cleaning is concearned
Stuart
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Its not that uncommon. I often get calls from people about it, not everyone comes on here and gets the answer. One franchise oprrator bought the customer a new suite. Mentioned it to me a bit later and was nearly sick when he found out how easily it could have been rectified.
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I mirrored his writing style & use of words to make a point, not unnecceary considering his post had insulted every member who had tried to help previously,
But if my post injured your high level of decorum & positivity then get a life you sad git... I mean I deeply apologies ;)
i rest my case
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I mirrored his writing style & use of words to make a point, not unnecceary considering his post had insulted every member who had tried to help previously,
But if my post injured your high level of decorum & positivity then get a life you sad git... I mean I deeply apologies ;)
i rest my case
Well said by the anonymous person who uses an alias and does not post his website ::)roll ::)roll. (Done so he can talk rubbish and slander companies with total impunity)
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Mike
just search google for mobile no , local no youll be amazed what you can find out 020 7837 6768
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My guys cleaned a suite today, looked fairly standard grey suite, but later in the day while drying it has turned quite pink ?
Never had this happen before in all the years I've been cleaning, remember reading somewhere this could be an indicator dye problem or perhaps a reaction with protector ?
I had this happen years ago and sourced the help of John Bolton.
The plain white coloured sofa was already clean, but the customer being the customer wanted it cleaned alongside the carpets.
Now at this point in life I'll come totally straight and tell the truth on the matter. All I did was vacuum the sofa and lightly mist it with a deodoriser..... so lightly it naturally dried within 10 minutes. Wrong I know but why wet clean something that is already clean?
That evening I got a call from the customer to say it now had a pink tinge to it....... so come on them guys HOW?
I resolved it the next day as directed by JB with bicarb.
So all this b-llocks about acid cleaners / alkaline cleaners / over wetting / bright light whatever is just that. Sometimes there are things out there just waiting for you to turn up and trip you up.
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Mike isn't that cleaner carpets guy the chap that was put as a mod on here a couple of years ago, or hot a job on ciu to drive it forward and lasted about 6 months.?
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Jason comes on here to wind everyone up it's the norm.
Shaun
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Update on the pink suite.......
Its looking decidedly less pink now after 4 applications of bicarbonate of soda, ( it certainly does work ! ) im pretty pleased with it, but they are still insisting that it loooks a bit brown / beige in places.
I think this is possible wear / soiling rather than being related to the pink problem, All I can suggest is for them to have the suite cleaned again, obviously using an alkaline cleaner rather than the acidic based one, at least we can be sure that its perfectly clean & I've done all I can do.
I'd rather not re clean it to be honest after all the problems, Am I right in thinking I should be ok with a slightly alkaline solution / microsplitters even & then rinse with plain water ?
Regards
Steve
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Why not consider cleaning it with bicarbonate of soda?
Apply by spray gentle brush in then dry extract out and turbo dry, this way you have shown that you have re cleaned it and also you'll get some more soil out (if you can) as well as it not changing colour.
Shaun
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That's a good idea, might give it a go !
Steve
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If we are agreeing that it is caused by the fabric being sensitive to acid side cleaning then I would mist it with double clean, F90 or something else on the upper alkaline side (subject to testing)and towel off. I would'nt do a full wet clean
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Yep that was my thoughts, and at least with towelling off we will be able to see if any more soiling is coming off !
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Personally I don't think they will be happy whatever unless it looks brand new! Any marks they will blame it on the issue, had one recently. Stressed me out, guy was a ******
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Don't forget this is a manufacturing fault and not the cleaners liability.
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Don't forget this is a manufacturing fault and not the cleaners liability.
ha, but how to explain it to customer and or insurer?
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Yep I've tried that angle a few times and they just not buying it :(
You'd think these type of Laura Ashley suites should come with a warning or disclaimer, saying they not fit to be cleaned !
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I know one c/c who solvent cleaned a L/A suite and it went yellow :o Seems a yellow barrier cloth
was to blame but custy wouldn't let him have the suite to investigate. L/A wasnt interested as the suite
was over 5 years old. Out of order IMO.
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I know Laura Ashley use some fabrics that have this very rare dye, it's normally on there natural range. No formal training course covers this fabric, its just hear say and Internet, resulting in you arriving at a problem job armed with baking soda and instructions from some bloke who it 'worked for him when it happened'.
When you weigh up the risk of this type of thing happening, the death of middle domestic demand, cheapo cleaners, hire machines, buy your own. It collectively errodes any respect and viability this game originally had, and its never had much. It really questions the point of sticking with it and answers the question why you never see carpet cleaners when you're out and about.
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When you weigh up the risk of this type of thing happening, the death of middle domestic demand, cheapo cleaners, hire machines, buy your own. It collectively errodes any respect and viability this game originally had, and its never had much. It really questions the point of sticking with it and answers the question why you never see carpet cleaners when you're out and about.
God I feel like killing myself after reading that appraisal of our industry :'( :'( :'(
Good job I've just had a good laugh reading the previous topic :)
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Haha, sorry Mike. On the plus side, a whole new year and a whole new opportunity to start a new business away from carpet and upholstery cleaning. :) :)
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What business do you suggest?
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Willy washing for the privileged. Its a growing trade.
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We used to clean the carpets curtains upholstery and anything else that had material on it for the owner of LA at his mansion in Hertfordshire, every single item was of course LA..absolute nightmare.
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Pink sofa update...........
Seems like after 4 applications of bicarbonate of soda the sofa is back to the original colour !
Not had a call back yet so hoping they are happy with it !
Thanks for the input from everyone !
Steve
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Many years ago I cleaned a green cotton type fabric suite. Custy called me a full 5 months later to complain that it was slowly turning pink. Eventually it became an insurance issue and cost the policy excess.
A couple of year later I cleaned another green suite but in a different material, a few months later, the same thing got a call, the siute had turned blotchy pink.
This suite as it happens was in the same material that Mike had the same problem with.
This was at a time before the cause of this problem was generally known, but I knew someone who, if anyone had the answer to this, he would, Paul Pearce.
It was he who told me about the bicard solution. Tried it on this second suite and it worked straight away, restoring the original colour.
Posted it on a forum. Mike picked up on it and was a bit sick as his was dealt with by his insurer, just like my first experience with this type of fabric/dye.
The second suite in question:-
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9emvAvOQX4I6IpaKbCXKfMKeL9Uzw3A-hwH95-lEdoQ=w276-h207-p-no (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9emvAvOQX4I6IpaKbCXKfMKeL9Uzw3A-hwH95-lEdoQ=w276-h207-p-no)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/vPML_DlXzgy_0_Mp4-l0ZXzd3Co-GNOuy0Ce6ZFp1as=w276-h207-p-no (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/vPML_DlXzgy_0_Mp4-l0ZXzd3Co-GNOuy0Ce6ZFp1as=w276-h207-p-no)
Dave.
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I certainly deal with this 'pinking' problem on the training courses I do ....I have done for several years .
The NCCA also include it too