Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dave f on November 07, 2014, 03:18:16 pm
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been down to get some lpg ,gas out of intrest asked about any laws about carrying lpg.the guy told me if you are carrying only one bottle ie 13kg you dont have to even have it secured ??? sounds dodgey to me,plus you dont have to display a warning sticker which i find hard to beleave.caravans are different as there bottles have to be secured.if you carry more than 26 kgs you have to be secured and have a warning sticker etc . ??? sounds a bit strange think ill do a bit more .just to be on the safe side ive secured mine got a sticker and to extinguishers for good measure. just for show mind,id be off like feck if owt went pete tong.
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Shhhhhhhh
The safety brigade here will be on shortly to SEVERELY disagree!
;D
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been down to get some lpg ,gas out of intrest asked about any laws about carrying lpg.the guy told me if you are carrying only one bottle ie 13kg you dont have to even have it secured ??? sounds dodgey to me,plus you dont have to display a warning sticker which i find hard to beleave.caravans are different as there bottles have to be secured.if you carry more than 26 kgs you have to be secured and have a warning sticker etc . ??? sounds a bit strange think ill do a bit more .just to be on the safe side ive secured mine got a sticker and to extinguishers for good measure. just for show mind,id be off like feck if owt went pete tong.
This is correct. There would be no way of policing the safety of fixing a gas bottle to every roofer's van out there that does felt roofing. On occasions like this the government has left the insurance industry to 'carry the can' of unpopular safety regulations. Front mounted bullbars were a prime example a few years back.
The caravan industry did better with regard to fixing a bracket to the front drawbar but I doubt it had much to do with safety. This was really the best place for utilizing space and yes, it just happened to be outside the sleeping quarters if a leak should occur. At least we are told to switch the gas off at the bottle when driving, but I wonder how many LPG gas heater users actually do it though.
In our early caravaning days nearly 60 years ago my folks towed their caravan from the Copperbelt in Zambia down to the south coast in Natal South Africa every second year and our gas fridge was lit all the time. Every other caravaner did the same as there wasn't a 12v provision in those days.
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It was a lot to do with Safety in the caravan motorhome industry, my first business idea was to convert
vans into campers as I had done a few for myself and sold them on over the years.
The gas regulations were a legal minefield and getting the right answers from the insurance companies
was nearly impossible
It was the same when I looked into installing a gas water heater into my work van, there were just to many
get out of paying clauses for my insurance company.
Strange how the thought of being financially out of pocket put me off more that the thought of being injured.
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As a Firefighter on this subject, displaying a sticker would be preferred, ok not law but...hey...if your vans on fire, id like to know what i as a Firefighter am walking up to.
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As a Firefighter on this subject, displaying a sticker would be preferred, ok not law but...hey...if your vans on fire, id like to know what i as a Firefighter am walking up to.
Are you 100% on the fact that the sticker isn't law?
Do you know where the best place to find any applicable laws and recommendations would be-link if possible please?
Do you know about the securing of the bottle & law please?
Again, a link if you know please?
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As a Firefighter on this subject, displaying a sticker would be preferred, ok not law but...hey...if your vans on fire, id like to know what i as a Firefighter am walking up to.
Are you 100% on the fact that the sticker isn't law?
Do you know where the best place to find any applicable laws and recommendations would be-link if possible please?
Do you know about the securing of the bottle & law please?
Again, a link if you know please?
Im only going off the first post, i should have said "may not be law" my mistake.
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As a Firefighter on this subject, displaying a sticker would be preferred, ok not law but...hey...if your vans on fire, id like to know what i as a Firefighter am walking up to.
Are you 100% on the fact that the sticker isn't law?
Do you know where the best place to find any applicable laws and recommendations would be-link if possible please?
Do you know about the securing of the bottle & law please?
Again, a link if you know please?
Im only going off the first post, i should have said "may not be law" my mistake.
No sweat.
I looked for ages on legal side of things before I went hot. I couldn't find anything concrete, just thought you might know.
All the best
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Put a sticker on whatever. If i see that warning sticker, ill be backing away from vehicle and setting up a big cordon! Do it for safety of Fire crews and public :)
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Put a sticker on whatever. If i see that warning sticker, ill be backing away from vehicle and setting up a big cordon! Do it for safety of Fire crews and public :)
I do.
I've got a magnetic one as I'm not hot all the time.
Friend of mine is a fire trainer, she said the same.
While you're on...the firefighters were picketing/striking again in my town last week.
Whys that this time? Pensions again?
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I dont get involved in strikes mate, personal choice. I do agree with the reason they strike over pensions however, im here to help my community no matter what.
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I dont get involved in strikes mate, personal choice. I do agree with the reason they strike over pensions however, im here to help my community no matter what.
Sorry, I wasn't clear, I was just asking: Are they striking over pensions or something else?
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No idea, im not in the union anyway lol.
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Not trying to insult LWC but long time ago I had a chemical spillage and sticky stuff hit the fan, anyway there were around 4 or 5 fire trucks 2 or 3 special units, cars, ambulances, police, reporters etc.
I was standing upwind with some crew trying to explain how to open a curtain side hgv.
Thought these guys would be trained for this sort of stuff! So I wouldn't expect the fire crew to know every aspect that comes there way including whether or not an LPG should be strapped or not. Like he said if he was walking towards a vehicle then it sure dose help if he can identify if its carrying a pressurised container/cylinder etc.
I have been chinned from the police when running with haz mat signs after delivering the shipment so was no longer required to display them and had an ear full of if there was an accident etc.
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I dont get involved in strikes mate, personal choice. I do agree with the reason they strike over pensions however, im here to help my community no matter what.
Sorry, I wasn't clear, I was just asking: Are they striking over pensions or something else?
Yes the basic answer is its over pensions but it's more complicated in reality .
The union have a proposal that falls within the cost ceiling the government has set but they won't accept it .
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I dont get involved in strikes mate, personal choice. I do agree with the reason they strike over pensions however, im here to help my community no matter what.
Sorry, I wasn't clear, I was just asking: Are they striking over pensions or something else?
Yes the basic answer is its over pensions but it's more complicated in reality .
The union have a proposal that falls within the cost ceiling the government has set but they won't accept it .
Ta.
Seems harsh
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I believe the Tories have an agenda to privatise the fire service .........ridiculous idea , it's never worked for anything else they privatised .
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i think this is a bout carrying lpg not a political debate stick to the original question
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the question was asked , get over it .
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How many window cleaners have had their vans go up in flames due to carrying gas and using a gas water heater?
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How many window cleaners have had their vans go up in flames due to carrying gas and using a gas water heater?
25 at the last count (added 25 for CIU B/S)
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How many window cleaners have had their vans go up in flames due to carrying gas and using a gas water heater?
How many window cleaners use it ? not many at the moment so the question should be how many vans or vehicles.
I personally know of one work van and one caravan.
When the neighbours caravan went up on a caravan site their insurance refused to pay out, don't know what excuse they
give but it still cost them to replace a new caravan and any repairs to the site pitch.
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i wouldn't of thought its that many ......the problem comes when you have a fire for some other reason (usually electrical), if you don't have the stickers on people won't know the cylinder is there and they go off with a hell of a bang when they explode throwing shrapnel out that can easily kill somebody thats in its way .
If your sensible i don't think they are that dangerous but i would much rather have a diesel system ......shame they are so expensive!
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I knew of a gas wells in Kuwait that went up in flames. So don`t use gas is dangeroos. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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So we need a sticker on all our vans and cars saying they contain fuel in a tank as when we have a fire for what ever reason and they catch fire and explode and send every shrapnel everywhere. NO, its a safe as you allow it to be and the time you spend checking to see if any leaks are fixing. If you are not sure fit a gas detect alarm or don`t use them if you are a fear driven person.
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So we need a sticker on all our vans and cars saying they contain fuel in a tank as when we have a fire for what ever reason and they catch fire and explode and send every shrapnel everywhere. NO, its a safe as you allow it to be and the time you spend checking to see if any leaks are fixing. If you are not sure fit a gas detect alarm or don`t use them if you are a fear driven person.
I agree with your sentiment slappy but I was under the impression diesel doesn't explode in the same way that gas (or petrol) does. A van is (i guess) more likely to be diesel so the firepeople may treat it differently... Just a thought
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When they fit gas systems for window cleaning they are not installed inside the van from what I've seen,I've seen awful set ups in vans with a gas cannister nothing short of just thrown in the back in the corner lol.the top and bottom of it is it's not the ideal choice and it's done by most WC.S because it's a dirt cheap way of doing it,we all try and justify the way we do things but that don't make it the right way. Those Taliban heater rott with pure water running through em day in day out and the connection on the majority of em are poor,there a portable way of having a wash lol
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When they fit gas systems for window cleaning they are not installed inside the van from what I've seen,I've seen awful set ups in vans with a gas cannister nothing short of just thrown in the back in the corner lol.the top and bottom of it is it's not the ideal choice and it's done by most WC.S because it's a dirt cheap way of doing it,we all try and justify the way we do things but that don't make it the right way. Those Taliban heater rott with pure water running through em day in day out and the connection on the majority of em are poor,there a portable way of having a wash lol
Can you back up your constant claim with proof or evidence that pure water rots the internals of all gas heaters Nige?
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I tried one back in the time when they were first tried out,I imported 2 from America and used 1 for a couple of months but it was never reliable it kept turning off and there was to much pressure for the fittings etc. When it split the main gas fed due to the cold temp overnight in the van that was enough for me as I didn't notice it for a few days and it scared the life out of me,a part time fireman - gardener saw it in my van and said I must be completely mad and said it was a time bomb waiting to go off.since then there has been well known waterfed suppliers jump on the band wagon change a few things and pass em off as proper WFP hot water systems which is complete b******s
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I tried one back in the time when they were first tried out,I imported 2 from America and used 1 for a couple of months but it was never reliable it kept turning off and there was to much pressure for the fittings etc. When it split the main gas fed due to the cold temp overnight in the van that was enough for me as I didn't notice it for a few days and it scared the life out of me,a part time fireman - gardener saw it in my van and said I must be completely mad and said it was a time bomb waiting to go off.since then there has been well known waterfed suppliers jump on the band wagon change a few things and pass em off as proper WFP hot water systems which is complete b******s
So how does pure water rot the internal workings of Gas heaters?
So, 'cos you bought two imports back in the day that didn't work for you, all gas heaters are the same?
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The internals were not stainless steel they were rotted almost through,as you would know unless the internals are stainless it's a matter of time before they corrode,I left it in the van one night and even after draining it the pipe were so cold they just split on change of temp.The old band wagon jumpers have even fitted a frost stat now I believe like I have on my diesel heater,the thing that is amusing is the fact they are passing them off as WFP heaters by changing a few stickers a bit like saying a ford escort is a Bentley cos it says Bentley on the bonnet really.
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So we need a sticker on all our vans and cars saying they contain fuel in a tank as when we have a fire for what ever reason and they catch fire and explode and send every shrapnel everywhere. NO, its a safe as you allow it to be and the time you spend checking to see if any leaks are fixing. If you are not sure fit a gas detect alarm or don`t use them if you are a fear driven person.
A few points here -
1-unless its full electric every motor vehicle on the road will have fuel in a tank , a very low percentage will have a gas cylinder in the back.
2-Yes fuel tanks can explode although this is fairly rare and when they do its just a momentary fireball that a firefighters fire kit would withstand .(diesel wont burn until its either heated or under pressure).
3- Car fuel tanks are not pressurised cylinders - gas bottles /tanks are at high pressure and when subjected to the intense heat of a fully alight car/van will explode and the shards of metal from the cylinder can slice you in half , nothing your wearing will protect you from that .
4- You can check for leaks all you like and maintain it all in perfect condition ......that doesn't stop your car/van catching fire for other reasons (usually electrical) , i have been brand new vehicles including a two week old vw transporter that have caught fire due to electrical faults.
So yes it would be a good idea to put the sticker on your van, they cost very little !
I really do wonder about some people !
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The internals were not stainless steel they were rotted almost through,as you would know unless the internals are stainless it's a matter of time before they corrode,I left it in the van one night and even after draining it the pipe were so cold they just split on change of temp.The old band wagon jumpers have even fitted a frost stat now I believe like I have on my diesel heater,the thing that is amusing is the fact they are passing them off as WFP heaters by changing a few stickers a bit like saying a ford escort is a Bentley cos it says Bentley on the bonnet really.
Nwh you get the title of talking the most garbage on this forum for a long time.
1) The insides don't rot anymore than other metal objects when in contact with water. Pure water doesn't rot faster than normal water.
2) the fact that you were incompetent to use your heater shows that not everyone should use these, you didn't set things up properly so there was pressure building up at the fittings when the pump wasn't dead ending. Not the heaters fault, but user error.
3) a time bomb you say? Surely a bomb explodes? An LPG canister cannot explode if you secure it, and fit a flashback arrestor which In case of malfunction prevents any spark going back into the bottle.
There is far more chance of an electrical fire in work vans but these seems to go unchecked. Everyone jumps on the band wagon that these heaters are dangerous. They are not at all when set up by a competent person.
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The internals were not stainless steel they were rotted almost through,as you would know unless the internals are stainless it's a matter of time before they corrode,I left it in the van one night and even after draining it the pipe were so cold they just split on change of temp.The old band wagon jumpers have even fitted a frost stat now I believe like I have on my diesel heater,the thing that is amusing is the fact they are passing them off as WFP heaters by changing a few stickers a bit like saying a ford escort is a Bentley cos it says Bentley on the bonnet really.
Nwh you get the title of talking the most garbage on this forum for a long time.
1) The insides don't rot anymore than other metal objects when in contact with water. Pure water doesn't rot faster than normal water.
2) the fact that you were incompetent to use your heater shows that not everyone should use these, you didn't set things up properly so there was pressure building up at the fittings when the pump wasn't dead ending. Not the heaters fault, but user error.
3) a time bomb you say? Surely a bomb explodes? An LPG canister cannot explode if you secure it, and fit a flashback arrestor which In case of malfunction prevents any spark going back into the bottle.
There is far more chance of an electrical fire in work vans but these seems to go unchecked. Everyone jumps on the band wagon that these heaters are dangerous. They are not at all when set up by a competent person.
I agree with most of what is said above , in normal use by somebody with a bit of common sense they are not particularly dangerous ......however an lpg cylinder will explode when subjected to an intense fire so carrying a gas cylinder in your van does have some danger attached. The fire doesn't have to be caused by the heater itself for it to be dangerous .
You don't have this same danger with a diesel heater but they are stupidly expensive!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOcaAGsU504
link to a gas cylinder exploding
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interestingly this composite cylinder seems to react much better to fire , not sure how full the cylinder was though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsakH6XT0Ao
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I'll reply later I'm just talking rubbish with someone at the mo so havn't got the time at the minute lol
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The internals were not stainless steel they were rotted almost through,as you would know unless the internals are stainless it's a matter of time before they corrode,I left it in the van one night and even after draining it the pipe were so cold they just split on change of temp.The old band wagon jumpers have even fitted a frost stat now I believe like I have on my diesel heater,the thing that is amusing is the fact they are passing them off as WFP heaters by changing a few stickers a bit like saying a ford escort is a Bentley cos it says Bentley on the bonnet really.
Nwh you get the title of talking the most garbage on this forum for a long time.
1) The insides don't rot anymore than other metal objects when in contact with water. Pure water doesn't rot faster than normal water.
2) the fact that you were incompetent to use your heater shows that not everyone should use these, you didn't set things up properly so there was pressure building up at the fittings when the pump wasn't dead ending. Not the heaters fault, but user error.
3) a time bomb you say? Surely a bomb explodes? An LPG canister cannot explode if you secure it, and fit a flashback arrestor which In case of malfunction prevents any spark going back into the bottle.
There is far more chance of an electrical fire in work vans but these seems to go unchecked. Everyone jumps on the band wagon that these heaters are dangerous. They are not at all when set up by a competent person.
;D ;D ;D
I couldn't be bothered to write it but that's pretty much along the lines of what I would have. ;D
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Flashback arrestor and magnetic gas signs - got a link anyone?
Dangerous stuff pure water - even more dangerous than gas I reckon. Burns your eyes, melts through heaters, frys your T shirts, dissolves frames - useless on glass though.
Anyone got a link for 'Danger Pure Water Carried On Board' stickers?
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Flashback arrestor and magnetic gas signs - got a link anyone?
Dangerous stuff pure water - even more dangerous than gas I reckon. Burns your eyes, melts through heaters, frys your T shirts, dissolves frames - useless on glass though.
Anyone got a link for 'Danger Pure Water Carried On Board' stickers?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And in the end, it's virtually the same as rain water!!
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WE need a sticker on the forum at time there is so much B/S in some heads it could be a threat as it could make methane and ignite and blow there heads off. The worst of this is they are putting the heads in a van now that could kill. As far as rott here is a lot of rot gut around so fella`s keep your windows open at all time. If consuming unions keeps doors open as well and apply the gut rot sticker so all fire men and members of the public can avoid you at all time. Even better run your water heater of it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hope we all survive this gas epidemic.
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The wizard has arrived - once more.