Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jonboywalton75 on November 05, 2014, 03:55:54 am
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Got my new transit 2 weeks ago, very satisfied, except for one thing.
My split charge relay won't work.
Here's what happened.
3 weeks ago I bought a 44amp car battery one afternoon as an emergency supply when using my previous van.
It has worked perfectly, giving me 4 or 5 hours flow. I have used it about six times since with no problems
I had a split charge relay fiited in my new van on Monday of this week by my local auto electrician.
Yesterday I drove 25 miles to work with the relay hopefully charging as I went.
I was using the afore mentioned battery.
At 2 o'clock the flow seemed to drop off, so I started the engine and the relay seemed to kick in and the flow was restored.
As soon as I switched the engine off the flow dropped again.
I returned to the shop where I had the relay fitted and had it checked.
We tried a new relay to no avail.
We checked what volts were being out putted from my car battery with the engine running
It measured 12.4 volts.
He told me that the alternator was possibly faulty in my new van.
I wondered if I need to get it checked under warranty.
The strange thing is that when my flow dropped off initially it seemed as if I was getting some charge from my car when I ran my system with the car engine running
Just wondering if he is fobbing me off to pass the buck.
Cheers for any pointers in advance from all you experts out there.
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Put a multimeter on the battery terminals while the engine is running and see what voltage you are getting.
It should read approximately 13-14 volts.
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AndyM got there first :)
In medical terms, I would seek another opinion. Mobile towbar fitters deal with a wide range of vehicles and are generally pretty good with this sort of thing as they fit SCRs on most of the towbars they fit. You can generally arrange a convenient place to you both to have it checked out.
If you have an amp meter, then change it to volts, and then put it across the van's main battery with the engine running. It should show something up in the 13.8 to 14.4v range.
12.4 volts indicates a flat battery.
Your SCR appears to be working as running the engine restored the pump's flow and allowed you to get on with the job. If the SCR fitted is of the intelligent type then it is set so it only kicks in to charge the second battery once the van's starter battery has been charged. It takes about 15 sec to several minutes on our vans before you hear the solenoid kick on as the van's battery has priority. If he is testing your second battery during this initial period then it won't register as being charged.
I would 'bench' charge your 44 amp battery and find a garage that can do a load test on it to determine if the battery is faulty or not.
I'm also going to stick my neck out here and add that I believe that a 44 amp battery is too small for the daily requirements of a single WFP operator. We wouldn't go below an 85 amph leisure battery.
If your pump is drawing 6 amps an hour (which it can do) then 4 hours work has already drained the battery to half of it's charge. If the battery isn't fully recharged by the time you start work the next day, then that battery will just get flatter. If you start with a full glass of water but you keep taking more out of it than you put back in, then you will eventually empty the glass.
A starter battery isn't designed for this sort of 'abuse'.
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i really dont understand why window cleaners dont just use a separate leisure battery and charge it up every night.keep it simple. ;D
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i really dont understand why window cleaners dont just use a separate leisure battery and charge it up every night.keep it simple. ;D
This is the best way of doing it.
I know of cleaners that have 2 batteries that they rotate everyday, leaving one behind on charge.
I usually run a cable out to the van every second evening to charge my leisure battery. But the extra cost of fitting a SCR (which I did myself) gave me the piece of mind that should a battery fail or go flat for some reason, then we can finish the job with the van's engine running.
We have had to do this once in 6 years when we were 20 miles from base. Having that provision paid for the SCR that day.
It allowed us to finish the job and then to order a quality replacement battery.
If we didn't have that then we would have had to abandon the job and finish it off at a later date.
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i really dont understand why window cleaners dont just use a separate leisure battery and charge it up every night.keep it simple. ;D
i really do not understand why you would lug a big heavy leisure battery out of your van every night to charge, a spilt charge relay pump controller is so easy to fit, one wire to the main van battery and then its done,
I have 3 vans all with these and no issues and have not had to take them out to bench charge them,
http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/flowmaster-digital-pump-controller-with-battery-charger-facility-p-273.html?page=all
jonboywalton75 use a multimeter and check the voltage of your van battery with the engine running, should be over 14v,
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i really dont understand why window cleaners dont just use a separate leisure battery and charge it up every night.keep it simple. ;D
i really do not understand why you would lug a big heavy leisure battery out of your van every night to charge, a spilt charge relay pump controller is so easy to fit, one wire to the main van battery and then its done,
I have 3 vans all with these and no issues and have not had to take them out to bench charge them,
http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/flowmaster-digital-pump-controller-with-battery-charger-facility-p-273.html?page=all
jonboywalton75 use a multimeter and check the voltage of your van battery with the engine running, should be over 14v,
I also think that part of our kit should be a permanently fixed digital volt meter in the cab across the second battery with an on/off switch. It gives a continuous reading of what is happening as you drive along.
On ours it will read a charging voltage of around 13.8v if the battery has worked hard and is a little drained, but will register 14.4v when it is nearly fully charged. It is also quick and easy to see what the battery's charge condition is once the battery has been allowed stabilizing time.
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I checked the voltage with the engine running, it read 12.4
The previous time I used my emergency 44ah battery it cleaned for a full day, as I said yesterday it managed till two in the afternoon when connected to the scr.
Dazmond, I work 25 miles from home and like Spruce I don't like not having back up power.
Cheers for the replies lads
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Also if my van battery is flat, I don't understand why it's performing superbly even reading 12.4
if you've seen how many gadgets it's powering on the new Transit it really is weird that I an able to drive, use start etc in its present state
maybe the measurement wasn't correct
I might get my ford garage to check my alternator, it's under warranty
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i really dont understand why window cleaners dont just use a separate leisure battery and charge it up every night.keep it simple. ;D
i really do not understand why you would lug a big heavy leisure battery out of your van every night to charge, a spilt charge relay pump controller is so easy to fit, one wire to the main van battery and then its done,
I have 3 vans all with these and no issues and have not had to take them out to bench charge them,
http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/flowmaster-digital-pump-controller-with-battery-charger-facility-p-273.html?page=all
jonboywalton75 use a multimeter and check the voltage of your van battery with the engine running, should be over 14v,
i dont!i run an extension cable to my van after ive purified my water for the next days work(only takes an hour to purify 500L of water DI only :))
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Relay is the way to go Daz. I had mine for two years and not once have I had to bench charge it. Even when doing a big job with no driving it's fine after a quick drive to the next job. It's one less thing to remember to do in the evening
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Have you got the stop start feature on the custom? Or kenetic charging?
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Have you got the stop start feature on the custom? Or kenetic charging?
Not read manual much yet so I better check
What exactly do these functions do with regard to my split charging?
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Have you got the stop start feature on the custom? Or kenetic charging?
Not read manual much yet so I better check
What exactly do these functions do with regard to my split charging?
When you stop at traffic lights the engine will automatically switch off after a few moments. It will automatically start again once you are ready to go.
Kinetic charging; the ECU monitors the times when the alternator is able to recharge the battery. It will take advantage of times when you are going downhill with your foot off the accelerator.
Good question in relation to this Pure. I had forgotten about this. Ford introduced ECU controlled charging about 10 years ago on the 'new' Transit Connect in preparation for this stop/start introduction. If his van has got kinetic energy charging then us window cleaners will have to bench charge our batteries every other day.
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The Transit custom has smart charging.
The alternator will only output when you van battery needs charge.
If you put you lights on when driving (daytime running lights are no good, you must switch the lights on) this will cause the alternator to output therefore you split charge relay will then work.
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Cheers Craig
thought there was something unusual about the electronics on my Transit
When u start my engine the front low beam comes on and stays on, I can't seem to drive with them off
Are you saying that to charge my spare battery through the scr I need to drive with my main beam on?
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Have you got the stop start feature on the custom? Or kenetic charging?
I don't have the stop start feature
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i really dont understand why window cleaners dont just use a separate leisure battery and charge it up every night.keep it simple. ;D
Same
I have a 85 ah battery and a halfords charger , if i only do a bit of wfp i get 2-3 days and if i do a full day i take it in and charge
SIMPLE
I thought about split charge as bringing battery in is a slight pain , but i couldnt guarantee id run it enough to charge it fully going to work to justify the expense .
I only pay about £50 every 18 months on batteries too
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Cheers Craig
thought there was something unusual about the electronics on my Transit
When u start my engine the front low beam comes on and stays on, I can't seem to drive with them off
Are you saying that to charge my spare battery through the scr I need to drive with my main beam on?
They are called running lights.
My split charge relay doesn't work I habe noticed with just running lights. Weird eh.
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Sounds like you've got a smart split charge relay which looks after your van battery 1st and doesn't charge initially every time the engine is restarted.
I have a smart charge relay on my vw transporter. I use to use it for charging my 110 amp leisure battery as a means of trickle charging whilst driving as although I do some long journeys some days I am in one area all day or all week. I use to top up my leisure battery every night from my garage by running an extension lead into my van where I have a smart charger connected to the leisure battery.
This summer I fitted 4 x 40watt solar panels on my van so I can run 14 amps for 12volt products during the summer and maintain drawing a minimum of 7 amps per hour during winter which trickle charges my leisure battery. Will be connecting 2 leisure batteries together next year so I can hold more charge and draw less amps from both batteries as I'm away from home regular for long durations. I have this week taken my solar panels from my van and am experimenting with other ideas and uses for them as it's a hobby I'm learning from.
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
Sigh.
So you think twin electric reels, diesel heater and twin pumps will all run off one van battery?
Just ONE of my cox reels can peak at 32amp draw. So with twin reels that 64 amps.
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
Sigh.
So you think twin electric reels, diesel heater and twin pumps will all run off one van battery?
Just ONE of my cox reels can peak at 32amp draw. So with twin reels that 64 amps.
How many batteries do they run off now?
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
Sigh.
So you think twin electric reels, diesel heater and twin pumps will all run off one van battery?
Just ONE of my cox reels can peak at 32amp draw. So with twin reels that 64 amps.
How many batteries do they run off now?
In total the van will have 4 when it goes in for next mods. 2 came with the van.
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have you got a pic of your set up with the cox reels?
how much were they?
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And like...... everyone has two 32amp electric reels in their van? So if two batteries run your two man system, then one surely must be capable of running a one man system?
Ok, I'll rephrase it, it will work for anyone bar Pure H20 ;)
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And like...... everyone has two 32amp electric reels in their van? So if two batteries run your two man system, then one surely must be capable of running a one man system?
Ok, I'll rephrase it, it will work for anyone bar Pure H20 ;)
Ha Like i said, wont work for everyone ;)
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So do I need to run with main headlights on to trickle charge my second battery or do I need a different type of scr.
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You do not have to put main beam on, side lights are ok.
Driving lights do not put much draw on the battery, hence you have to turn the side lights on.
Split charge relays trickle charge the battery as previously posted. So if you do not do much driving, you will take more out of the battery while you work than you will be putting back in while driving.
In which case you will have to top up the battery with a charger. CTEK chargers we have always found the best.
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Cheers Craig
presume you have a transit
How do you find yours?
Thanks for all the input on this topic, everyone
Don't know what I would do without CIU
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
So what happens if the van battery goes flat ? or do van batteries not suffer from power failure.
Common sense would tell you that the best way is to have a second battery that gives enough power
to complete a days work.
How you keep it charged or topped up is up to you.
But not to have a set up were if the battery does fail not only are you going to be unable to finish your workload but will
be without the power to start the van.
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
So what happens if the van battery goes flat ? or do van batteries not suffer from power failure.
Common sense would tell you that the best way is to have a second battery that gives enough power
to complete a days work.
How you keep it charged or topped up is up to you.
But not to have a set up were if the battery does fail not only are you going to be unable to finish your workload but will
be without the power to start the van.
Never flattened a Bosch silver series 5 battery yet, not even close even with working all day. You need a controller though to prevent the pump running flat out all the time. As has been said, a second battery on a SCR is only getting sloppy seconds from the main battery anyway. It's up to you, I've been wpf for over ten years & if it didn't work I'd know about it by now!! ;D
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I don't have a controller, so when the pump dead ends and stops when told to by the pressure switch, does that mean the pump is still drawing as many amps as when it is actually pumping?
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Just run direct from the vans main battery, no need for leisure batteries, chargers, split chargers etc etc etc....
Even simples'er! ;)
That doesn't work for everyone.
It does with the right battery, a controller & a bit of common sense. it works for anyone. ;)
So what happens if the van battery goes flat ? or do van batteries not suffer from power failure.
Common sense would tell you that the best way is to have a second battery that gives enough power
to complete a days work.
How you keep it charged or topped up is up to you.
But not to have a set up were if the battery does fail not only are you going to be unable to finish your workload but will
be without the power to start the van.
If my scr hasn't been charging my pump, my two backups are a 12 v socket near the rear of the van with cigarette lighter adapter to run from the van battery or a spare scrap car battery, which is what I used on Tuesday to complete my work.
I always try to be prepared ;D
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I think you need to contact Ford technical and tell them that you think that their Smart Regenerative Charging and Battery Management System are an issue with recharging your auxillary battery on the move.
Ford will have some way round the issue as they must have considered that a Custom would tow a caravan with a leisure battery on board needing to be charged in transit. I'm sure they will be able to reprogram the ECU to solve this problem of yours.
This also could be the reason why Pure is also having issues with his aux. battery charging.
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I had it booked in today for a diagnostic check at my local ford garage but cancelled it when I was told earlier that running with sidelights trickle charges the auxiliary battery.
I checked this yesterday and it seems that this is the case.
I thought I would try it next week and see how long I can work for. with the amount of driving I do.
I will be using my 66amp battery.
We'll see how it goes before I think about remapping the ecu, but that could be an option if Ford's will do it for me.
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I had it booked in today for a diagnostic check at my local ford garage but cancelled it when I was told earlier that running with sidelights trickle charges the auxiliary battery.
I checked this yesterday and it seems that this is the case.
I thought I would try it next week and see how long I can work for. with the amount of driving I do.
I will be using my 66amp battery.
We'll see how it goes before I think about remapping the ecu, but that could be an option if Ford's will do it for me.
We would be very interested to hear the result.
I would also order a 12 digital volt meter and switch and attach it to your aux battery so you can see what's going on at an instance.
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I think you need to contact Ford technical and tell them that you think that their Smart Regenerative Charging and Battery Management System are an issue with recharging your auxillary battery on the move.
Ford will have some way round the issue as they must have considered that a Custom would tow a caravan with a leisure battery on board needing to be charged in transit. I'm sure they will be able to reprogram the ECU to solve this problem of yours.
This also could be the reason why Pure is also having issues with his aux. battery charging.
I don't have issues spruce with with mine. I knew about lights/stop go/kinnetic :)
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I had it booked in today for a diagnostic check at my local ford garage but cancelled it when I was told earlier that running with sidelights trickle charges the auxiliary battery.
I checked this yesterday and it seems that this is the case.
I thought I would try it next week and see how long I can work for. with the amount of driving I do.
I will be using my 66amp battery.
We'll see how it goes before I think about remapping the ecu, but that could be an option if Ford's will do it for me.
We would be very interested to hear the result.
I would also order a 12 digital volt meter and switch and attach it to your aux battery so you can see what's going on at an instance.
Cheers for all the advice Spruce and everyone else for that matter
I'll see how it goes next week and update you all
my local auto electrician was also baffled
These new vans seem overly complex or is it just me
getting older
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Scr working well now
Used 44amp battery with it this week, spruce was right, no good. I should've realized this from the start.
Buying 110 amp leisure battery today
Pure was correct about the scr not kicking unless you use the side lights, this is not a problem though.
Glad to be sorted, thanks lads
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Since I bought my 110amp Leisure battery I haven't charged it once and the flow is still spurting out
Very convenient way of working ;D
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I've got a feed going from the van battery to the pump connection, takes about 30 seconds to switch over for low power pump battery emergencies, could be even quicker if I fitted a switch but use it so infrequently can't be bothered but it is a good backup to have when you ever need it!
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110amp finally needed charging today after 4 full days
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110amp finally needed charging today after 4 full days
These leisure batteries work well when to keep the charge level up. I charge mine every second evening and if the battery has worked hard, the same evening.
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110amp finally needed charging today after 4 full days
These leisure batteries work well when to keep the charge level up. I charge mine every second evening and if the battery has worked hard, the same evening.
Spruce, I have the scr working now, surely I shouldn't need to be charging every night?
the reason I went for the scr was to negate the need for constant charging